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Lobotumi
26th Apr 2002, 14:46
Well Moritz has finally been 'eliminated' by Flaps.

What does it prove though? If you don't like what someone says you can take them outside and shoot them. Doesn't make you right though does it.

Is that the sound of Jackboots I hear resounding through the corridors of PPRuNe? :eek:

I thought you had been appointed Moderator Flaps not ELIMINATOR!

Jet Blast just died. Fuel starvation I guess.

HugMonster
26th Apr 2002, 15:03
Another comment that's out of order, Lobotumi. Another apology to Flaps, I think.

You want it when?
26th Apr 2002, 15:06
Er.. I think the phrase "blow it out your a**" come to mind Lobotumi.

PPRuNe is irrespective of if you like it or not a moderated site - keep causing grief and you're gone. Moritz enjoyed taking a stand diametrically opposed to a lot of people on the board, if he is so wound up about it he will just re-appear as someone else with a different account. It's not like he has been shot is it? I think total elimination is more fun than a lingering death.

BTW you had a pop at Flaps on another thread - and one here are you sure you're not sickening for something?

HugMonster
26th Apr 2002, 15:12
I suspect he's sickening from being a clone of MS...

Lobotumi
26th Apr 2002, 15:13
Why was it necessary to eliminate every thread he had ever posted Huggy? Explain that if you will.

It is now impossible for anyone to make up their own mind and all the threads become meaningless. Revisionist in its own way I suppose.

Perhaps you are right though: eliminated is probably not quite the right word. Upon reflection I think exterminated is perhaps more suited (no pun intended).

Biggles Flies Undone
26th Apr 2002, 15:15
Well, Lobotumi, either you are a newbie who doesn't understand the House Rules or you are a regular (possibly even MS) who is not prepared to abide by them. Either way you would do better to find another BB where you can be as radical as you wish.

JB is an extension of the Professional Pilots Rumour Network. That gives you a clue to the main focus of the BB. The majority of the posters are prepared to play by Danny's rules - which automatically puts you in the minority. Remarks such as those you have directed to a member who has invested a lot of time to PPRuNe and is prepared to take on the difficult task of regulating such a disparate mob of reprobates do you no credit at all.

HugMonster
26th Apr 2002, 15:16
Lobotumi, haven't you worked it out yet? THE SOFTWARE does the elimination. It's nothing to do with Flaps.

Is your computer suffering from an input embolism?

TowerDog
26th Apr 2002, 15:18
So what did he do this time?

Think I missed the lasted thread or posting that was bad enough to get him kicked out again. Was it good?:D

You want it when?
26th Apr 2002, 15:21
Lob. I don't need MS to make up my mind - he/she was hardly capable of a reasoned argument. AND the subjects being discussed were normally highly emotive.

As I understood it this is supposed to be the "crew-room" of PPRuNe - not an open debate area. Now someone publish a joke. :p

Grobbler
26th Apr 2002, 15:29
What's red, wise and sits in a tree?






A sanitary owl.

Nostradamus
26th Apr 2002, 15:33
Who was it that said something like, I disagree with everything He said, but I will defend his right to say it to the death?


or sumfink like that.

flapsforty
26th Apr 2002, 15:46
People, while I do not believe that I owe anyone but Capt PPRuNe an explanation, I am certainly more than willing to provide one here.
Can we make a deal that you are then willing to look at it without preconcieved notions?

Suter was banned by Capt PPRuNe about a week ago while I was pouring coffee at 34 000 ft.
He was given clear guidelines as to what was acceptable on this site and what wasn't.
He was given a final warning to adhere to these guidelines and agreed to so.
Which is why Danny "un-banned" him and put him on final-probation.

Today he has twice posted links to a site which propagates revisionist neo-nazi propaganda.
I edited out the links but left the rest of the post.
He re-posted the links.
I edited them out again.

In the mean time I conferred with the powers that be and was given permission to use my judgement.
Which I have done.

Suter gave his word as a gentleman to Danny and then went right back to flaunting the code of conduct as spelled out to him.
He knowingly posted links a to a site which is not welcome here, nor anywhere else in civilised society for that matter.
So I decided to remove his account from PPRuNe.

That's it.
I am sorry if there are some of you who feel offended by this.
But whatever I do or not do, I will never please all of the Jetblasters all of the time, nor do I feel the need to strive for that Utopian state of affairs.
I try hard to be fair, as shown when I removed an ad-hominem remark directed towards Suter. I do not think that I am infallible.
I am however nobody's fool, and as long as Danny allows me to decide, I will.
Those who disagree can argue and follow Suter's example by creating discord here or choose to live & get on with it.

Suter is not coming back, and that's final.

This whole matter has been an education, and hopefully not only for me. :D

:) Allow me to wish you all a splendid weekend. :)

The Mistress
26th Apr 2002, 15:59
And the same to you Flaps.

:D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D

PercyUs
26th Apr 2002, 16:07
Today he has twice posted links to a site which propagates revisionist neo-nazi propaganda.

Rubbish! Did you in fact read them falpsforty? I did and the links that have upset you didn't propogate anything.

I found Suter amusing and entertaining....being controversial is one of the reasons I keep returning here to see what hapens next. Summary execution of him/her is hardly the sort of development I expected to find on a Friday afternoon.

A pox on your house for spoiling my weekend.

Percy.

HugMonster
26th Apr 2002, 16:09
Ah - this is bringing ALL the MS clones out from beneath their stones! :D

swashplate
26th Apr 2002, 16:29
IMHO this place was pukka before MS and it will be so without him....

Life goes on.... :rolleyes:

pants on fire...
26th Apr 2002, 16:33
How grossly insulting that anyone here blame flaps or the PPRuNe administration for any action that has been taken here.

If you want somone to blame - then try me for size! Want to address the issue - then try MS.

The sexist insults leveled at flaps are inexcusable, - but I am sure that the Clones will continue, or worse, reproduce.

There is no response to anything vaugely related to the Troll that was not INITIATED or INSTIGATED by the little Goblin himself.

All that has ever happened with Morris, is to follow his example of "intellectual debate" and review his source material. This has consistently exposed either wholly erroneous "facts" or even worse, - the revisionist version that either re-writes the events of history, or denies they ever occurred.

I do believe in freedom. It is the exact reason why I question the rantings of this closet Nazi (and I use that term with appropriate consideration) - even though "it" uses the shield of intellectual debate and freedom of speech and thought, as a guise for his rascist, fanatical raving. All I have ever attempted is to question the basis of "fact", "it" has ever quoted.

Mary is a pseudo-intellectual, "cut and paste" plagiariser, operating under a cloak of anonymity that might give credence to extremist viewpoints that are certainly on the outer edges of normality and far removed from the mainstream of society. Does it make her wrong? Depends on the forum and the rules of engagement - in this instance it apparently exceeds the realm of acceptability.

The only place I hear jackboots, are echoing around the mountains and valleys of Morris' little alpine chalet, as he goosesteps at his computer, foaming at the mouth, concocting more "intellectual" nonsense to set the world alight with.

Again - want someone to blame?
I'm your Man!

I do however, apologise to all JBer'sand everyone at PPRuNe for necessitating so much wasted effort and time on this issue.

fantom
26th Apr 2002, 16:41
I, for one, do not need to be wound up on JB by MS.
I, for one, will be pleased if MS were never to be seen here again.

hang on... that makes two of me.......:p

con-pilot
26th Apr 2002, 16:47
Flaps, in the words of my wife;

YOU GO GIRL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Keep up the good work. Don't sweat the small er stuff.

;) ;)

Nostradamus
26th Apr 2002, 16:53
POF

you really must stop all this clones nonsense, just because some people think suter was good value, doesn't make them a clone.

Your getting all worked up, asking people to blame you, what rubbish!! suter hung himself agreed, but please dont come here trying to justify why you have made some of the worst personal attacks, I have seen about him.

RW-1
26th Apr 2002, 16:58
I edited out the links but left the rest of the post.
He re-posted the links.
I edited them out again.

Gee, the only one to blame for MS being removed IS MS.

Period.

Flaps, I support your position.

Everyone have agreat weekend! :D

pants on fire...
26th Apr 2002, 17:13
I'm not worked up about anything. ;)

The clones I am referring to, are not the individuals in support of Mary, that is their own choice and right. I'm talking about the entities that MS itself will probably assume. Maybe he will come back as Morphitz Suter? :)

And you are correct about my personal attacks. I make no apology for them - they are intended to expose the individual for what they truly are.

They are only aimed at those who choose the same approach to others on this forum.

I have nothing against Morris, don't know him, probably never will, but he dished out as much to everyone else. Didn't seem to like it being turned back on himself though, did he?

Give him enough rope and......

flyblue
26th Apr 2002, 17:14
Thanks Flaps.

Nostradamus
26th Apr 2002, 17:19
POF

Thank's for clearing up the bit about clones.

I misunderstood your meaning I am sorry.

Fujiflyer
26th Apr 2002, 17:40
Well done Flaps.

Fujiflyer:)

SpinSpinSugar
26th Apr 2002, 17:41
Well, contrary to my earlier stated position, I'm now pleased MS is gone (although oddly he doesn't actually appear to be GONE, is this some glitch in the new software?).

Not for any reason pertaining to his postings, you understand. It's been quite entertaining at times, and generated often interesting and amusing debate. In fact, for no other reason than the unstoppable tide of bleating relating to MS from the cosy mutual appreciation society who think JB is their own personal paddling pool, and dislike the new kid getting all the attention, was growing ever more wearysome. If you take away the random poll threads, at times probably 90% of the traffic on this portion of the site was MS related. To slip into American for a sec, Jeez! Enough already, people!

Oh well, hopefully we'll now have a little more variety in the threads here. *casts eyes heavenward and says a quiet prayer*

Now Tony's back p'raps there's hope for the salvation of JB after all. Not to pile too much pressure on, but the force is strong with that one.

Loki
26th Apr 2002, 18:02
Flaps:

Look, I adore you ,I really do (and we`ve never met) but can you do something about the font colour?

LOL

Loki

(Edited for daft typo)

Foss
26th Apr 2002, 19:42
Falps,
was reading the politics yeah or no thread then a mortar-like whistling sound and BANG MS was gone...kewl

BRL
26th Apr 2002, 21:14
Its simple really. MS wound a lot of people up and didn't play by the rules. He/She was warned and asked to abide. MS didn't take any notice and is now banned for disregarding prior warnings. How thick can you get?. :rolleyes:
I mean, even i know when to behave after being given a final warning......... ;)

Well done Flaps. Good move.

BDiONU
26th Apr 2002, 23:02
IMHO Flaps was absolutely correct in the interpretation of the 'rules' for this site. It is made clear when you 'sign up' what is and isn't acceptable. MS post's were unacceptable, QED they were removed. End of story.

Bio Warrior
26th Apr 2002, 23:25
Flaps did the right thing, in real society there is such a thing as responsibilty for ones actions, and there ought to be the same thing here. Good onya Flaps you are doing a good job.

-Bio

Hugh De Payen
26th Apr 2002, 23:33
Without bias, along with other individuals (some will come forward and admit it and some will not) I also enjoyed most of the topics that MS took part in. He did of course ruffle the feathers of some of the 'straight down the middle' ppruners, but more often than not explored both the black and white areas of an argument in a topic, however controversial.

People are drawn like a magnet to JB forum for the sheer banter and camaraderie that it brings, however sharp and painful the replies that are sometimes posted. However, it often appears that some replies are posted in anger and then the recipients of a return 'stab' cry wolf because they are upset at the reply that an individual has made.

Before the Moderators upgraded the software the preamble to JB stated 'If easily offended then please stay away'.

What ever happened to this simple but effective ruling, and why has it been removed? Is it that we have caved in to the 'do gooders' of the super highways!

HugMonster
26th Apr 2002, 23:41
Hugh, you seem to be labouring under a few misapprehensions:-

MS was not banned because he upset people. He was banned because he refused to stick to the rules of PPRuNe that you, I and everyone else has signed up to.

Being "controversial" is not a problem in JB. If it were, everyone would by now have been banned.

The old warning stated "Do not enter if you are easily offended". This does not give carte blanche to anyone to try to give offence deliberately, nor does it mean that anyone entering JB has thereby given up all right not to be offended.

If you have anything against doing good, please say so now. Nobody has "caved in" to anyone. Danny and his moderators are continuing to run this site as they consider best for its continuance as a fun, popular site for anyone with an interest in aviation.

Flying Lawyer
27th Apr 2002, 00:00
Unfortunately, this was the correct and only sensible decision.
Unfortunate because many of MS's contributions were stimulating, controversial and/or amusing.
What a shame he/she was also unable to control for more than a few days his/her curious urge to quite deliberately wreck good debates just for the 'fun' of wrecking them.

Absolutely right Flaps.

Hugh De Payen
27th Apr 2002, 02:27
Hugmonster ,

I will not deny that Mr Suter has been removed for his blatant disregard of the rules and for disobeying the moderators, to which they must feel fully justified for their actions. The removal of MS has obviously brought a great shout of delight from the others, as represented in their farewell posts.

I for one enjoyed the banter but chose to ignore what I felt were remarks close to the bone, I made reference to the preamble as a direction to others to highlight that there is a choice as to what to respond to and what to ignore.

Wino
27th Apr 2002, 03:43
Well Done Flaps.

Cheers
Wino

henry crun
27th Apr 2002, 06:22
It would appear he has not been banned.

Between 0330 and 0400 this morning he made three posts and opened a new thread about Flaps.

Caslance
27th Apr 2002, 06:44
It's like a small child shrieking profanities to get attention from the grown-ups.

Just ignore the fool!!
:cool:

djk
27th Apr 2002, 06:57
all the fun happens when I don't log on for a few days.
oh well *sigh*

Tartan Gannet
27th Apr 2002, 07:38
Florish of coronets, proclamation from the balcony of the Palace. Moritz Suter banned, account closed, posts deleted.

BUT WAIT! What do I see this bright Saturday Morning on JB???? Yet another MS post on Lesbians. (Datelined 27 April 2002)

FLAPS?? What are you up to dear? If you have banned MS for offensive posts then BAN HIM, (Her). This "on off", "in out", action merely makes a mockery of any sanction which is applied. A punishment has to punish the wrongdoer, satisfy the wish for retribution by those they have upset, has to be seen to be effective and serve as a warning to any others who would break the rules that such actions will not be tolerated.

If you feel that you are too merciful in your heart to ban MS for the Neo Nazi links posted and repeated gross offensiveness to the body of Jet Blasters in general, after having been given so many "last chances", then I would be only too happy to apply draconian and long term exclusion if in your position. As a supporter of the Death Penalty, merely banning someone from a discussion forum holds no qualms of conscience for me.

G.Khan
27th Apr 2002, 08:07
Maybe the new software hasn't quite caught up TG? Elsewhere Falps has said MS is banned. Possibly a very clever impersonation, something just everso slightly different in the spelling and profile and it slips passed the gate guardian.
Just thoughts.:confused:

Mac the Knife
27th Apr 2002, 08:07
Agree. This guy(gal?) has no real interest in debate/discussion of the (carefully chosen) subject.

Just looking for a fight & notoriety. Dump him/her.

AngleAndAttack
27th Apr 2002, 09:02
OOps he (she) (it) is gone again.
I tried to answer his post , but was denied.

Flaps,
STÅ PÅ!:)

OzExpat
27th Apr 2002, 09:44
I don't understand you folks at all. The only possible way that people like MS can give offence is if YOU allow it to happen. I find it very easy to ignore posts by people like that and, let's face it, we've seen this sort of person here over the years, so it's not as if MS is something new or different.

Personally, I really don't care whether he/she is here or not. It doesn't bother me either way. I figure it's the price we pay for such an open medium for discussion.

If you ignore people like MS, they can't offend you.
If they can't offend you, they go away.
Simple.

KayGridley
27th Apr 2002, 12:55
Nice one Flaps.

Shame he had to go because, sometimes, just sometimes, he made for funny interesting debates, but if you don't play by the rules you don't deserve to play at all, and having a go at she who has the rather big job of looking after the rules is totally unacceptable.

Thanks Flaps.

rover2701
27th Apr 2002, 15:33
I have been away on hols for the last 2 weeks and what do I find when my back is turned, my favourite swiss miss has been banned.
Bring her back I say. Its no fun without everyone ranting about how bad Moritz is.
Like Ozex says it can only give offence when you all allow it to, and I agree. Reinstate her, the sooner the better. It gives me great pleasure to see the gnashing of teeth and the beating of breasts at the controversial sayings of Moritz.

PaperTiger
27th Apr 2002, 16:37
I happened to be browsing when that fleeting MS post appeared. Couple of minutes later it was gone. Thought it might be an impersonation/re-register but the post count and date corresponded with the original. Looks like a hole in the 'banning' software somewhere. Don't think MS has the grey matter to hack.

OzExpat
27th Apr 2002, 17:59
PaperTiger... I think it would be a mistake to underestimate the abilities of said MS. From the posts I've seen, this person seems to be very well and highly educated, with plenty of "grey matter" - and the capacity to use it to the greatest effect.

This is yet another reason not to engage him/her in debate. I've seen so many people do so and come off very distinctly second best and looking like complete morons. Perhaps that's why he gets up so many noses?

Using my philosophy, it's impossible to get into that situation. That way, I can very effectively hide my moronic side! :D

Hugh De Payen
27th Apr 2002, 19:04
OzExpat , re your first post on this thread, thank you for that. I made a similar reference to this on the Moritz wiped of the face of the board thread.

To reiterate, we all know the boundaries and should be adult enough to know when to respond/react and when to not, we all have that choice. Therefore, if comments have got the better of you, then it's time to take a step back before countering another attack.

However, I do not condone irresponsible and insensitive posts that are quite often posted.

I notice Tartan Gannet is offline at 19:05z so I presume he's watching the Battle of Britain film on C4!

redsnail
27th Apr 2002, 19:30
Every couple of months someone or something comes along and likes to "have a go". As usual, all the fish come along and rise to the bait. The person winding them up gets a tad OTT and then finds themselves banned. Then, we get threads on why person X should/shouldn't be banned.

It's simple really.

Play by the rules.
Reply if you want, but logically and thoughtfully.
(or you can be like me and laugh at them)
If the person appears to be delibarately goading you, then they probably are. Ignore the thread.
Go to pub.
Blood px returns to normal.

Fortunately where I am there are a few pubs within walking distance and London is 30 min away on the train. :D

PPRuNe Radar
27th Apr 2002, 19:41
Tartan Gannets thread has been merged into this one as this predates it and also had more replies. Posts from both threads now appear together in chronological order and it all still follows a logical path, sort of :cool:

Dr. Hibbert
28th Apr 2002, 07:10
Wow - ain't technology marvellous! :)

flyblue
28th Apr 2002, 08:50
Wonderfully synthesized Reddo! :)

OZ,
highly educated you say??? You mean he reads his cereal boxes on top of the Alps???

ironbutt57
28th Apr 2002, 09:11
and now pprune is politically correct once again......:( :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :confused: