Cessna goes swimming in Lake Eyre

[skypilot33]

Hearing reports a plane has made an emergency landing on Lake Eyre yesterday? Can anyone confirm?

[VH-XXX]

No.... this isn't a re-cap of the Cessna that flew below sea level a number of years ago.... I am hearing a reports of a Cessna possibly out of William Creek going for a swim yesterday with 6 POB in Belt Bay - all had to be choppered out :\

Desert Flower, do you have any more info from your neck of the woods? Could have been piloted by the namesake of the operator.... or so they are saying ;)

[falconx]

210, we were crossing and a local chopper was sent to assist

[Desert Flower]

Nope - for once I know nuffin'! But I am guessing it was probably one of Willy Creek's ones. Don't know what it is with Lake Eyre & 210's - some sort of fatal attraction by the look of it!

DF.

[Desert Flower]

DF, fatal for the aircraft perhaps.... Particularly Cessnas and the occasional Airvan.

That salt water/mud doesn't do them a whole lot of good....

DF.

[PLovett]

Is there any water left in the lake?

If so, it would still be in Belt Bay which is the lowest part of the lake. But, jeesus wept, if anyone had an engine problem and had to put it down there then they must have been awfully low when it happened as its not all that far across the bay.

Just to add it would be a very muddy experience for all concerned. The crust is not that thick when there has been water.

If it is a 210 then most likely out of Willy Creek as I heard that there was a couple based there now.

[kingRB]

Don't know what it is with Lake Eyre & 210'sTo be fair it did claim a 206 back in the 2011 season.

The rotary I won't joke about.

if anyone had an engine problem and had to put it down there then they must have been awfully low when it happened A lot of scenics entail 500 ft AGL legs back when I flew there. However still does not necessarily mean they were low. Don't underestimate how big that northern part of the lake is. The 206 I mentioned above was at a reasonable height near the Warburton Groove when it lost its fan, and still had no other option but to land in the lake.

[601]

I wonder if they were wearing life jackets?

[flyingfox]

VH-WRA I believe.

[gerry111]

Wasn't VH-WRA a Gippsland GA-8-01-007 Airvan GA that was once registered to Wrightsair at William Creek?

So the C210 is?

[Desert Flower]

WRA is most definitely a scarevan, & is still registered to Wrightsair.

DF.

[Ixixly]

So was it a C210 or WRA? I flew WRA once, she was a nice Airvan, had that lovely overhead air vent the others didn't which made it great to fly....you know, for a scarevan!

[buzzz.lightyear]

WRA was a GA8 that went missing over Buckingham Bay NT in Oct 2008.
It was never found. (only a few parts were recovered)

[range99]

No, BL, that was WRT

[buzzz.lightyear]

I stand corrected... thanks..

[gerry111]

Back in about 2006, WRT was registered as GA8-01-005 to Wrightsair, 1 Bill Rivers Ave, William Creek SA 5710.

[Capt Claret]

When I flew it back in the late 80's WRT was an N22 Nomad, registered to Bevan Whittaker's Whittaker Air Charter.

[a-star]

100 percent confirm it was an Airvan........its on the salt too, but looks like it left some tyre marks!

Im sure we'll read about it on the ATSB or in the news soon.

[Old Akro]

Im sure we'll read about it on the ATSB soon.

Is 2 years soon?

[zappalin]

Is Captain Chaos Ok?

[VH-XXX]

Is Captain Chaos Ok?

Is that TW's nickname?

[Desert Flower]

Is that TW's nickname?

Yep, it sure is! Wonder where Pilotette is? I am sure she could shed some light on this!

DF.

[PLovett]

If its one of Trev's aircraft then Pilotette is doing what she should be doing and that is saying nothing. It is for the owner to make statements on such occasions.

kingRB, I have done a fair bit of flying around there myself but I thought the site was Belt Bay which with my imperfect memory was the south west corner.

[gerry111]

DF, perhaps Pilotette is off to Broome (or yet another exotic destination) with the Anna Creek honchos in Trev's new Scarystar?

[kingRB]

I thought the site was Belt Bay which with my imperfect memory was the south west corner.

You are correct. It's bigger than you think if at 500 feet though!

[Desert Flower]

DF, perhaps Pilotette is off to Broome (or yet another exotic destination) with the Anna Creek honchos in Trev's new Scarystar?

A Scarystar? Damn - will have to hit him up for a ride in that!

DF.

[Old Akro]

Wrightsair operate 20-ish aircraft. All of which would fall into the much maligned "Aging Aircraft" category - except the one that has had this current episode of unreliability.

Its a good operation there. Good luck to them. I presume the pub is about to get a bunch of new guests from FF looking for a winter escape.

[a-star]

http://s2.postimg.org/c36r3n4ah/image.jpg

[VH-XXX]

Here y'all go...................

It's a nice shot really, very creative. Pity about the broken Airvan in the background.

As you can see, no life-jackets necessary!

http://members.iinet.net.au/~bc_j400/TWAirVan.JPG

[PLovett]

Its a good operation there. Good luck to them. I presume the pub is about to get a bunch of new guests from FF looking for a winter escape.

Your right. It is a good operation and Trev puts a lot of effort into ensuring the maintenance is kept up to scratch on his aircraft. They have to be the best equipped aircraft in their category that I have flown. I am willing to go out on a limb to suggest that this event will not be attributable to poor maintenance.

If there is a mob from FF descending on the pub then Trev will win both ways as I believe he is now the licensee of the said establishment. :ok:

[Old Akro]

Just a flesh wound!!

Bit of bad luck. The salt wouldn't have needed to be much stronger for it to have landed. Going to be a bugger to get out. You might get a 4WD & trailer out there if you were careful. But I've pulled 4WD's out of salt lakes (haven't been stuck myself) and its a knife edge between breaking the surface & not.

If anyone can come up with a clever plan, it will be Trevor! 2 or 3 Quad bikes, some skids for the aircraft and a towrope might be an option.

[Old Akro]

They've put the window covers & pitot cover on! Its a class act.

[Old Akro]

The GA8 is listed with an empty weight of 998kg. The Long Ranger seems to have a max sling load of a bit more than 1000kg less pilot & fuel. So could you pull a pilot & some fuel weight worth of seats & some bits off the GA8 and lift it out with the LongRanger in the foreground?

[zappalin]

So we've established now that it's no Cessna, and it definitely ain't swimming!

Should be a contract from News Limited in the mail shortly.

[Ex FSO GRIFFO]

Ain't swimming yet Mr Z, however a BIG nasty ole cold front on the way from WA ....may be there with .....rain....by the weekend or so....

Unfortunately, it ain't out of the woods yet....maybe.

Hope it's recovered in time & OK.
:ok:

[Flying Binghi]

...If anyone can come up with a clever plan...

Get the Riddell recovery team onto it. They'll have it out in a couple of days..:cool:





.

[DH164]

Get the Riddell recovery team onto it. They'll have it out in a couple of days..

This job does not require their level of excellence :E

[Ex FSO GRIFFO]

The Synoptic for the next few days....

Looks like it may head South & miss the Lake after all.....Good.

Colour Forecast map for next 4 days (http://www.bom.gov.au/australia/charts/4day_col.shtml)

Cheers:ok:

[splitty]

Did you fly with John Peaker then?

[Old Akro]

The Woomera / William Ck area generally misses all the Southern weather patterns. The weather than actually hits this area tends to be sporadic. I've stood on the ground at Woomera and watched the tip of Southern weather patterns pass on the Southern horizon and vice versa Northern patterns. Rain in the area tends to come from isolated storms rather than line patterns. Its pretty common for a station to get heavy rain on one part of it and be dry on another. I think they have some time to deal with the aircraft, but depending on how far from "shore"the aeroplane is, it could be very difficult / expensive to get out.

Salt lakes are funny things. Ones with thick crusts like Lake Gairdner withstand getting wet without causing a lot of drama to the surface. The thinner crust ones like Lake Torrens or Lake Hart don't need much rain to soften them and make life immeasurably harder. Not sure about Lake Eyre. I've been on Lake Torrens where the difference between going through or not has been the difference between walking softly & walking normally. And breaking the crust takes you ankle deep in goo.

Another interesting thing is that if there is water it tends to move around a lake. Some locals say its to do with the moon & tides. Others say its wind. We rang Dr Karl about it and he didn't have an answer.

[Trojan1981]

That is a great shot XXX! :)

You wouldn't be lifting 1000 kg very far in a Longranger. If insurance permits I'd be getting a 214 or even a Dauphin down from Sydney to lift it out. It requires a bit of prep though, just to minimise weight and ensure the 'van doesn't try to 'fly' while being underslung. De-fuel, seats out, lift spoilers on the wings etc.

[Desert Flower]

Another interesting thing is that if there is water it tends to move around a lake. Some locals say its to do with the moon & tides. Others say its wind.

It's definitely wind. When Len Beadell & his gang were building the Gunbarrel Highway they camped on a salt pan one night. There was water up one end, so they set up camp at the other end. They woke up during the night to find everything floating, as a strong wind had come up & pushed the water in the opposite direction!

DF.

[Hydromet]

Another interesting thing is that if there is water it tends to move around a lake. Some locals say its to do with the moon & tides. Others say its wind. We rang Dr Karl about it and he didn't have an answer.
It's definitely wind.
Quite correct. Wind set up on shallow lakes with a long run can be quite spectacular, and once started, seiches can continue oscillating for quite a while after the wind has stopped. They can go back and forth or in a circular motion, like you get if you move a basin of water in a circular motion.

I flew as pax on one of the Willie Ck. aircraft last year and found the whole operation very professional. (They also kindly let us use their workshop to carry out repairs to the tour company's mini-bus.)

[Desert Flower]

Aren’t there photos of at least one aircraft (to my inexpert eye it looks like an Islander? - high wing, twin engined thingy -) on the Lake next to the Bluebird?

I would say at a guess the aircraft is the Aerocommander 500 that Campbell's missus used to fly. I remember seeing it back in the days when he was doing his thing on Lake Bonney in Barmera.

DF.

[Old Akro]

The strength of the salt crust depends on how dry it is. You can see it in the shade of white. I haven't been in that territory since January / February. None of the Salt lakes were properly white then. It seems to take months for them to dry out properly.

[Horatio Leafblower]

I thought it was only my wife and interior decorators who insisted there is more than one shade of "white" :ugh:

[Trent 972]

http://www.ukti.gov.uk/1610820.image
G-APLJ (http://www.edcoatescollection.com/ac1/austcl/VH-DRR.html)This was previously British adventurer Sir Donald Campbell's G-APLJ, flown out to Australia the previous year to support his land speed record attempts on the dry lake bed at Lake Eyre, SA in his "Bluebird".

[PLovett]

Clinton, Donald Campbell most certainly used Lake Eyre for setting a world land speed record in the Bluebird. They used the south east corner of the lake (where the infamous C210 is) which is usually the last part to flood and has the hardest salt crust. Ironically, the first year he was there was the wettest in some time. He had to return a year or two later to set his record.

[Old Akro]

Lake Gairdner is the better lake for speed records. Its where the Dry lake Salt Racers run the Australian version of Bonneville each year. I was told by the guys at Mt Ive station that the salt crust is 1m thick is the Southern end. I have a vague recollection that Donald Campbell was supposed to be at Lake Gairdner, but I forget why he ended up at Lake Eyre.

[Trent 972]

VH-EXY Aero Commander 680E (http://www.edcoatescollection.com/ac1/austcl/VH-EXY.html) http://www.edcoatescollection.com/ac1/austcl/VH-EXY.jpg

It was, in fact, used to support Donald Campbell's world land speed record attempt on the dry bed of Lake Eyre. DCA had denied permission for DC-3s to land on the lake bed and set a weight limit of 10,000 lbs for such an operation, a limit easily met by the Commander, topping out, as it did at around 6,500 lbs. In the event VH-EXV only operated a few flights between Adelaide and the Lake Eyre site.

[Desert Flower]

I thought it was only my wife and interior decorators who insisted there is more than one shade of "white"

Don't know how many shades of white there are, but apparently there are 50 shades of grey! ;)

DF.

[onetrack]

How did they determine it was OK to run the Bluebird and operate the aircraft on the Lake?

Clinton, they take core samples with a small hand-operated auger to determine the salt crust thickness. The salt crust is 1M thick at Lake Eyre, at Level Post Bay.

Australian salt lakes are nearly all very treacherous, with a thin crust of salt, and sticky, fine clay mud underneath. That mud can vary in depth from a few hundred millimetres to dozens of metres.
There are very few Outback salt lakes that can safely carry the weight of a vehicle or aircraft.
Claypans, which often appear very similar to salt lakes (although they're usually darker in colour), are nearly always safe for vehicles and aircraft, if they're dry.

[Desert Flower]

Lake Gairdner is the better lake for speed records.

Yep, & almost every time Roscoe McGlashan went there to do a run it poured!

DF.

[Fantome]

Donald Campbell also used an Avis Air Charter Aero Commander. But on that occasion it was in support of his water speed attempt on Lake Dumbleyung in WA. Had the honour of refuelling him at Perth Airport early in 1965.

Have a snap somewhere taken at the time. His pleasant smiling face is framed by the open side window as he is reaching up about to fire up number one. Perched up in front of him on the dash is the teddy bear that went everywhere with him. Named??? That little stuffed mascot was eventually recovered from the depths at Lake Coniston. If you've never seen the film clip of Bluebird on that last of all speed run, or listened to the voice of the pilot calmly saying (throat mike) so unflapably "I am losing it", then look it out.

[gerry111]

Donald Campbell's teddybear was called Mr Whoppit.

[WAC]

I flew over the dry lake racers spot at Lake Gairdner on Sunday....you'd want a hovercraft or boat to attempt a record there at the moment... The pits and start line were dry but since recent rain there was a big puddle from about half way...

[onetrack]

It might be a good idea to get the Airvan out of the lake before the locals find out that there's holes been made in the surface, and the spirits have been disturbed. We all know what that means - more compo ( a couple of new Toyotas, at least). :(

Outback racers defend saltpan damage - ABC News (Australian Broadcasting Corporation) (http://www.abc.net.au/news/2013-05-08/outback-racers-defend-saltpan-damage/4676586)

[gerry111]

Clinton, there's a photo behind the bar of Bluebird but I don't remember if there's an aircraft with it. I was too busy drinking them out of Coopers Pale Ales...

[compressor stall]

The pic behind the bar (not hanging on the wall, you will have to ask for it) is definitely the aero commander. At least it was last time i was there. Couldn't read any rego on it.

[compressor stall]

And yes, the speed record site is the SE corner. They based themselves at Muloorina Station. The turnoff is a few kms west of Marree and then about 50 kms to the station. From there, another 30 odd kms past the neck and to the lake shore. There's a plaque there these days.

[outnabout]

I did hear a whisper of a rumour that two of the pilots stacked Captn Chaos' 4WD on their way to get groceries in YCBP earlier that same day.

If true, a bad hair day all round.

Still there's always the bar bill from the tow truck guys / accident investigators...

[Tinstaafl]

I've overnighted at Muloorina Station in the Shearer's Quarters. They do an amazing cook-your-own BBQ and will take you out to the lake. I even got to swim in it - an opportunity that doesn't happen often.

[Ex FSO GRIFFO]

Has the Airvan been recovered as yet..??

Looks like some rain could be on the way......

Colour Forecast map for next 4 days (http://www.bom.gov.au/australia/charts/4day_col.shtml)

Hope its all 'irrelevant'.....
Cheers:ok:

[a-star]

So what happened to this? Havnt seen a thing on the ATSB?

Surely it got reported?

[Flying Binghi]

...So what happened to this? Havnt seen a thing on the ATSB?

Surely it got reported?


No, its all hush hush, only known to us pprune insiders..;)





.

[Avgas172]

50 shades of grey

Now you've done it DF the flood gates are open :E

[parabellum]

In post #48 is the aircraft in the background an Apache?

[Ex FSO GRIFFO]

Hey Mr 'P', could be.....

VH-DRR (http://www.edcoatescollection.com/ac1/austcl/VH-DRR.html)

:ok: Cheers

[megle2]

That Apache is parked at Charters Towers

[VH-XXX]

...So what happened to this? Havnt seen a thing on the ATSB?

I may have heard something........ there's a rumour that the aircraft was perfectly serviceable before it touched down..... join the dots... . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .

[outnabout]

Oh dear - was Captain Chaos trying one of his "lets go land & camp on the Lake overnight" trips?

I had heard rumours that he did trips like that but thought it was just a rumour.

[Capt Claret]

there's a rumour that the aircraft was perfectly serviceable before it touched down

There's a kink in me dots.

Just out of curiosity, does the rumoured rumour indicate if the touchdown was intentional or accidental?

[PLovett]

Belt Bay would be the worst place on Lake Eyre to attempt a landing. It is the deepest part of the lake; is often one of the last places to dry out when the lake has flooded; and has a very thin crust. Far better would be the south-east corner which is the last place to flood and has a thicker salt crust. As previously mentioned, it is where Donald Campbell set his world land-speed record for that very reason.

In 2009 when I was at the Lake, you could see where people had tried to drive and walk onto the surface of the lake at ABC Bay which adjoins Belt Bay. You could clearly see where they had broken through the salt and revealed the underlying mud. I also spoke to tourists in the pub who had attempted to walk on the lake surface. You could tell who they were by the mud caked on their shoes. They all told the same story about breaking the surface salt crust. It does get thicker the further out from the shoreline but very doubtful that Belt Bay would support an aircraft.

[outnabout]

Hypothetically, can a licenced operator with fare paying passengers on board, land on a non-ALA such as a paddock or a salt lake? Whereabouts in the regs would I look for an answer?

[VH-XXX]

You can land anywhere as long as you have permission (preferably written) from the land owner.

Some insurance companies insist that the landing area be surveyed prior or otherwise limited to licenced airfields.

[cavok123]

It's funny that whenever there is an incident with another operator or private pilot around the lake eyre area it's in the newspapers or makes the news. But if something happens with a wrights plane, it seems to fall through the gaps and misses this publicity.

[PLovett]

and misses this publicity

And this isn't publicity? :confused:

[Horatio Leafblower]

Well it's pretty specialised, ennit?

It's not exactly Page 1 of the William Creek Herald or the headline story on William Creek Tonight. :rolleyes:

[Old Akro]

CAVOK, you're being pretty cynical. It could also have something to do with William Crk being a small community that is remote with poor / expensive telephone / internet and no mobile coverage. It might also have something to do with them actually being a good operator with less disgruntled staff than others. It could also be that they spend a lot of money on maintenance with an outstandingly good LAME and only use factory new engines rather than rebuilt ones.

[Desert Flower]

And let's not forget Wrightsair isn't the only outfit owned & operated by Captain Chaos. Freycinet Air & Opal Air are part of the package too as far as I know. He's come a long way since I first crossed paths with him, has the ol' Trev. Just goes to prove that you can take the boy out of the city! :ok:

DF.

[a-star]

It is funny how when ever any other operators or incident happens, old capt is the first one to run for the cameras and give an eye witness report.

....But when something happens to said company, it is all hush hush!

***missed cavoks post but the same thing**** everyone in central Australia says the same thing!

[outnabout]

Have to disagree with you there, A-star. When there is any rain anywhere in the Southern hemisphere then, yes indeed, Captn Chaos is on the airwaves promoting flights over Lake Eyre. Standard business promotions.

But when a 206 operated by Central Air landed on the lake 2 (? DF can you help?) years ago with engine failure then the main voice I heard was Desert Dick, and he was only commenting on his own activities.

[VH-XXX]

Rumour has it that a few hours ago a C207 may have run off the runway at Marree and prop-struck. Lets hope this time that things don't happen in 3's !!

[Wally Mk2]

..........good onya 'xxx' on the case already & the Conty would still be warm:ok:


Wmk2

[VH-XXX]

She's a bit boggy out there at the moment, leave the runway and it's all over, particularly when you take the airport boundary fence with you :ouch:

[gerry111]

If you land at YMRE when it's been recently a bit wet, don't be tempted (if walking) to take the short cut across the paddock to the town. Please follow the roads. It's a fair bit longer but so much easier... The mud along the "short cut" there is quite impressive for all the wrong reasons. On my visit, there was no Telstra mobile reception. So a prearranged call to the pub for a lift would have been a good idea. And for those that haven't been to the Marree hotel? We had a ball!:)

[dibloc]

Hope it wasn't the 207 that just had the new donk installed 12 months ago.

[outnabout]

A quick squiz on the net shows 3 operators advertising services out of Marree - GSL Aviation, Wrightsair, and Aus Air.

Not sure if Central Air still have a base there too.

[outnabout]

Of course, it could also have been somebody drifting through rather than someone based there - maybe a private, on a weekend away?

[zappalin]

A quick squiz on the net shows 3 operators advertising services out of Marree - GSL Aviation, Wrightsair, and Aus Air.

Not sure if Central Air still have a base there too.

I haven't passed through that way for a while, but last I heard it was just Aus Air and Wrights operating from YMRE. Not sure if GSL have headed back there this season.

If indeed it was a C207, it's pretty much assured to be Wrightsair though. Hoping this is just another rumour (it's an amazing place for rumours Marree).

[VH-XXX]

(it's an amazing place for rumours Marree).

That's one way to look at it, but remember that there's an awful lot of flights going in and out of there and Willaim so statistically you'd expect to see more.

[Desert Flower]

Of course, it could also have been somebody drifting through rather than someone based there - maybe a private, on a weekend away?

Being that is was a 207 I think it's a given that it was local.

DF.

[PLovett]

If it was a C207 I hope the bleedin' thing is a write-off. :mad:Hated them when I was there. :yuk:

What do you say when you see 40 C207s' all in a heap and on fire?



.....................a good start! :}

[kingRB]

Whats the matter Lovett couldn't land one properly? Are you one of these types that perpetuates these stupid rumours they are a difficult aircraft to operate?

It's just another 200 series Cessna, nothing more, nothing less.

I enjoyed my time in them and like having something in the log book most others now going through GA will never have.

[VH-XXX]

Being that is was a 207 I think it's a given that it was local.

One might say that the aircraft was the lake's namesake..... ;)

[a-star]

Wrightsair 207 + cross wind = run off the runway I'm told.

[outnabout]

Havent seen an ATSB report on either of these. I thought that with paying passengers on board there wouldve been one?

[Dazzlar]

Before it was pulled XXX said "I'm still
waiting for the photo. As there's no phone coverage there I have to
wait for the carrier pidgeon to deliver the photo."

Where's the pigeon at and the photo ?

[VH-XXX]

No idea Mr Dazzler, don't even know of there is a photo, my point was that if there was one it would take forever to get anywhere. Perhaps you misunderstood my comments. Ill ask L.O. If he has one next time I pass through.

[Old Akro]

Does anyone know if they recovered the Airvan?

[VH-XXX]

Should be by now. QBE sent up a spare engine a few weeks back.