Ronald Harvey Osborn

[ericferret]

Something of a long shot after so much time has passed.
I have the log books of the above who was killed in a crop spraying accident in July 1963 flying a Hughes 269A for Management Aviation.

I would like to return them to the familly if possible.
I spoke to Alan Bristow (who appears in the books as an instructor) a number of years ago and he thought the familly had moved to Moulton Northamptonshire.
Last known address was MYOB, Overstone Road, Sywell, Northamptonshire.

He learnt to fly in Rhodesia and spent the war instructing.
After the war he converted to helicopters with John Fay and Alan Bristow as instructors.
He was engaged on Whale spotting in the South Atlantic on Westland WS55's from 1954 till
1961. He then went into general charter flying including some early film and police support for Rent-A-Copter LTD at Luton before joining Management as a crop spraying pilot.
He did some spray work in the WS 55 as well in 1960.

Any leads on surviving familly members would be much appreciated.
One interesting entry notes a passenger as John Lennon (beatle)!!!!!

[Savoia]

One interesting entry notes a passenger as John Lennon (beatle)!!!!!

Out of interest which aircraft was used for that sortie?

[Capetonian]

Can you give me any details of the time he spent in Rhodesia? I may get a clue of some kind from that, it's a small community and despite the diaspora, one that has kept connections.

If you have any names, you could look them up on : Names of Rhodesians Worldwide (http://www.rhodesia.com/names/names.html)

[ericferret]

Hi Savoia

John Lennon trip 22 June 1963 Battersea-Staverton
Hiller 12C G-ARTG

Aircraft returned to Bourn on the 23rd and he took it spraying on the 26th.
He converted on to the Hughes 269A 5/6 July (at the moment reg not confirmed, probably G-ASBL) 1hr 25mins.
He started to work with it on the 12th July and was sadly killed on the 18th.
Total time on type 30hrs and 10 mins. Total time 3347hrs.

[ericferret]

Hi Capetonian

His pilot licence lists him as British, born London, 4 April 1924.

I just noticed he was a member of the Guild of Air Pilots and Air Navigators of the British Empire.

He flew from Mt Hampden, Norton, Thornhill all Southern Rhodesia.

To be honest it's strange reading his hand written entries from this period when I know what the eventual outcome will be.

[heli1]

Hi..have pm'd you.

[ericferret]

There seems to be a small mystery with this accident as G-INFO does not appear to supply a suitable candidate for the crashed aircraft. Foreign reg unlikely at that period.

[Savoia]

Are you saying that G-ASBL was the accident aircraft?

There are a details for an accident in 1964 but .. it is non-fatal.

ASN Aircraft accident 27-OCT-1964 Hughes 269A G-ASBL (http://aviation-safety.net/wikibase/wiki.php?id=80509)

[topendtorque]

What a magnificent gesture Eric.

This moves me to think how well does pprune archive?

Over the years there must be some incredible information and or research data stored in these columns. I have seen other websites where they became plundered, or crashed and lost heaps of data.

I think PPrune has a lot more to offer than pretty much any other helicopter site, it would be nice to know that it is stored well and easily retrievable.

Since all of the material is given freely, so hopefully it would be available to descendants freely.

I see John Fay's name mentioned, I always reckoned his book was the best I ever read on the subject, got me through my exam at 98 1/2% anyway.

regards tet

[Capetonian]

Nothing on RWW, I daresay you would have looked anyway. I will get onto my ex-BSAP contacts and see if anything can be traced. Most of them are younger, born in the 40s-50s, but you never know.

I have one contact who did some research into the RRAF and he may provide at least a clue.

[ericferret]

I do not know which aircraft it was, ASBL was my first candidate but on re-reading the G-INFO database it seems unlikely.

I have emailed the AAIB who were helpful with a previous accident inquiry, so hopefully some poor soul will be blowing dust off some very old files in the next few days.
I will post any forthcomming info.

[ericferret]

Apart from Fay and Bristow other names that stick out are Keith Sissons,
Ken Sheppardson (ex Bond chief pilot), Dennis Cox (engineer still working in 1999). John Crewdson (Helicopter Hire)

[Adroight]

Capetonian,

He was very likely a British RAF ab-initio pilot trainee who learned to fly in Rhodesia as part of the of the RAF pilot training system which trained Commonwealth pilots at airfields South Africa, Rhodesia and Canada during WW2.

[ericferret]

Thats spot on ADROIGHT.

My apologies for the lack of detail but it would take a lot to go through all of it.

He learnt to fly at 28 EFTS Southern Rhodesia.
He began as an AC2, and was gradually promoted to LAC, SGT, F/SGT.
First flight 20 Sept 1943 Tiger Moth 7926.
Flight test 16 Nov 1943 83hrs 55mins.

Posted to 20 SFTS Cranborne S.R
Looks like a Harvard conversion and advanced training.
Awarded wings 21 April 1944 265 hours 10 minutes.

Posted C.F.S Norton S.R
Instructors course 1 May to 26 July 1944.

Posted SFTS Thornhill S.R
Instructor till last flight 25 Aug 1945.
Declared redundant 1 Nov 1945
Enlisted RAFVR 29 Aug 1950
Flew as an instructor mostly with 4 BFTS at Sywell

Began helicopter flying 5 April 1954 in Westland WS51 G-AKTW and ALIK with John Fay and Alan Bristow as instructors.

[helihub]

I certainly have various notes on old accidents in my loft, but right now is not the time to get them. However, there's lots on the net, and my research comes up with these notes and thoughts.


Management Aviation - did they ever operate Hughes 300s? Thought they were only Hiller operators in terms of small helicopters in those days?
The only two 300s which had been registered by mid 1963 on the G register were G-ASBD and G-ASBL
G-ASBD this was still around in 1971 - photo here (http://www.flickr.com/photos/egbj/5632819212/) and ended up with a fatal accident in August 1981
G-ASBL was written off in a spraying accident in October 1964
There were a few Irish helicopters operating in the UK in 60s (eg at Denham?), but none of the 300s on the EI register had even been built in 1963 - the earliest was built in 1964
So I then looked at Hillers, which seem more likely with the Management Aviation link. While the CAA register cannot be held as the complete story, the only Hillers that Management Aviation had registered in their name BEFORE July 63 were
G-AOFV 28.06.62 - cancelled as permanently withdrawn 29.04.65
G-AOZS 08.02.63 - cancelled as destroyed 01.09.66
G-APOF 17.01.63 - sold to new owner Jan-65 - so likely discountable.
There were a further three which were in existence in the UK prior to July 1963, and were first reg to Management Aviation AFTER July 63 - on the dates given below - and I suppose there is the possibility of late notification of change of ownership, but assuming the aircraft was written off July 1963, why would an owner progress with a paperwork change after that?
G-AOFL 22.01.64 - cancelled as destroyed 17.01.66
G-ARTG 21.01.65 - sold on 1970/1 - so likely discountable
G-ASIH 02.12.63 - cancelled as withdrawn from use in 1971 - seems unlikely to be your one
Minutes of a council meeting of Wellingborough Borough Council (http://www.wellingborough.gov.uk/egov_downloads/Minutes_for_COuncil_meeting_25_1_11.pdf) (close enough to your Sywell address) in Jan 2011 list a Ms J Osborn (the unusual spelling without the "e") as "Homelessness Prevention Officer" referred to elsewhere as "Jo Osborn" A document on the Joseph Rowntree Foundation website (http://www.jrf.org.uk/sites/files/jrf/young-people-housing-options-full.pdf) gives the email address as [email protected]
Google did help me track down a Hiller accident in July 1963 at Loch Awe, Ford, Argyllshire of G-ARUF listed on ASN here (http://aviation-safety.net/wikibase/wiki.php?id=66506) as "Rent-a-Copter Ltd" which is a possibility given your other notes
Assuming the "A" is right, there were eleven Hiller 12A helicopters (http://www.caa.co.uk/application.aspx?catid=60&pagetype=65&appid=1&mode=summary&aircrafttype=Hiller%20*12A&dereg=true) ever on the G register, but none mention Management Aviation (and I have not researched them further yet either)

[mickjoebill]

There may (just) be a tv doc in what you are doing.
Its hard to know where your search will end, could be interesting... or not.


Suggest you contact one of the UK production companies asap so they can shoot you doing the searching. Try Wall to Wall productions or Lion TV...

Generally they dont like "one-off" docs but it may fit in with a series they have planned.

Beware that how you are portrayed would be out of your control.


Mickjoebill

[Pappa Smurf]

If you google Hughes 269a accident ,on page 2 under Worldcat Org ,it mentions a crash at High House Farm
Heckingham
Norfolk, on 18th July 63.

Better still google Hughes 269a N8785F-----------That takes you to the National Archives.

[ericferret]

Papa Smurf

Now that is interesting, when I last looked at this I am sure I found a reference to a report on the fatality from the Norwich coroners office. I cant find the link now which is a pity.


Helihub

Thanks for the Jo Osborn email, I have sent a message so fingers crossed. Email just bounced back, bugger. Lots of Osborn(s) in the Wellingborough area. Looks like a sesssion of phoning round.

If Management aviation was the operator and the aircraft was on the N reg then it sounds like a trial. So possibly they binned the idea after the accident.
Apparently the ag manager "Curly" Truslove (sic) was still alive a few years back and he would definitely know.

I have an engineer contact from the early days of Bond/Management and I will give him a call to see if he remembers anything.

Mickjoebill

Fine idea, but as I am terminally non photogenic they would have to get a stand in!!!

[ericferret]

The internet is a wonderfull thing, the National Archive mentioned by Papa Smurf lists an AIB accident report to Hughes 269A N8785F operated by Management Aviation on 18 July 1963. Six documents on file but not digitised so you have to request them. I think I will do that if not too expensive.

So I think that ties the aircraft down. So the search goes on for relatives.

Thanks to all who have assisted so far.

[ericferret]

Nice to see that something still works in this country.
Sent request for info to the AAIB late last night and a copy of the accident report drops on to my email at 10.27AM. Many thanks to the staff at AAIB.

The aircraft was owned by Westland helicopters and was on lease to Management Aviation.
The pilot had completed his last flight of the day and hooked the skids under the topmost cable of a set of power lines while leaving the site. He had done 6hrs 20mins on the day so probably tired and suffered a loss of concentration.

[Savoia]

The aircraft was owned by Westland helicopters and was on lease to Management Aviation.

The Hughes 269A N8785F?

[ericferret]

Thats what the AIB report says.
American export C of A issued 7 Feb 1963.
21 June 1963 Westland applied to register the aircraft in their name.
Application not granted as still American registered.
12 July 1963 leased to Management Aviation
Crashed 18 July 1963

[Savoia]

Intriguing.

I thought that Sloane's or perhaps even 'Air Gregorious' were the Hughes agents around that time? That Westlands would import a Hughes 300 and lease it to Management Aviation is something I would never have guessed!

[Planemike]

Both G-ASBD & SBL were owned by Westland up until October 64. They carried military serials XS684 (BL) & XS685 (BD) for a while. Seem to recall one of them was reported as being present at a Middle Wallop Open Day in 62/63 which suggests they may have been evaluated for the Army Air Corps.

N8785F may have been part of the same package.

Planemike

[heli1]

Plane mike is spot on.Westland offered the 269A in the competition for an AAC replacement for the Skeeter and imported the aircraft as a demonstrator.

[DirtyDitch]

I'm in the area and will ask about also one person may have a memory good enough to recall. Ill get back to you as soon as possible.

[hyde road]

It was by chance that I read your entry on this web page. I am the eldest daughter of Ronald Harvey Osborne and I am very interested in receiving the log books you have in your possession. I don't know how much info you require to verify my being the person I say I am. The name of the film he was in was 'VIPs starring Elizabeth Taylor and Richard Burton and I was lucky enough to go to Heathrow where they were filming. Unfortunately that day they were not on set.

He was in fact spraying a field belonging to Mr James Cargill the evening he was killed.

I would also be interested knowing how you obtained these, were you a friend or just enthusiastic about helicopters.

[ericferret]

I have sent you a personal message.

Great to hear from you.

I suspect the film you refer to was filmed on April 8 1963 as there is an entry
Luton-Heathrow with local flying at Heathrow and then Heathrow-Luton. It doesn't say what the trip was for.

[ericferret]

And then there was silence. Might have been something to do with the fact that I said I would require positive identification and would only hand over the documents personaly.
I hate to use the word scam in connection with this, but sadly it would seem to be the case.

Very disappointed but I haven't given up yet.

[Savoia]

Eric: If nothing comes of your efforts to repatriate the books to Ron's family then perhaps give someone at GAPAN a call. Some of the Colonel's memorabilia is kept in their library and they may be willing to act as custodians of the logs until someone claims them. If no one claims them then at least they will serve as an interesting piece of reference material.

If GAPAN can't help then try the RAeS (who AFAIK) also have some of the Colonels' memorabilia.

If they can't help then try asking PPRuNer Heli1 (http://www.pprune.org/members/116649-heli1) if the Helicopter Museum in Weston-super-Mare are interested.

Speaking of museums .. there are currently plans for a new rotary museum in Durham (http://www.hartlepoolmail.co.uk/news/local/high-flying-hopes-for-2m-helicopter-museum-in-east-durham-1-6172365).

Brgds

[heli1]

It goes without saying that the Helicopter Museum would be pleased to add these logbooks to its growing library of logbooks for test pilots,service pilots and commercial pilots,including most of the UK pioneers.

[ericferret]

I will pass them on to the Rotorcraft Museum if I cannot find the familly.

Heli 1

I have sent you a PM on a different subject.