Bagram Crash 29 Apr 13 - Video Footage

[Just This Once...]

Bagram Airfield crash yesterday.

Bagram Airfield Crash 29 APR 2013 - YouTube

RIP.

[Ivor Fynn]

Disturbing bit of video. Very sad.

RIP

[TOWTEAMBASE]

Shocking, why would you feel the need to post that, the poor families

[Lonewolf_50]

Heart breaking video. :{ RIP. .

TOWTEAMBASE: The live leak link is posted at R & N. I watched the whole 3 minutes. At time 1:14-1:15 we hear the observer's first words: "Oh, f___!" There's an understatement.

I am guessing the observer is someone on perimeter security patrol, or some such, as there was sound of a canine in the cab. It looks from that clip that the wind was blowing away from the fuel trucks parked near the perimeter.

[Always a Sapper]

I'd agree with TTB on this one. For one horrible moment I did wonder if it was a trooping flight. Still, bad enough with 7 souls on board. RIP and thoughts with the families.

[air pig]

totally agree, why post.

RiP to the crew and condolences to their family and friends.

[TOWTEAMBASE]

Lone wolf

Does the fact it's on the Internet already justify pointing people in the right direction. I can't imagine the horror of the family if they were to come across it

[Duncan D'Sorderlee]

Whilst I can see the point regarding the families of the victims, I'm not sure when PPRuNe decided to censor factual issues. This is a military forum, that is a military crash.

I lost count of the number of times I watched my mates die when they crashed into Lake Ontario. Or the number of times the Twin Towers crash was broadcast.

RIP the crew; and condolences to the families.

Duncs:ok:

[Always a Sapper]

TTB

If a family member did come across it I can just see them sitting there watching the clip all night, over and over each time hoping to see the aircraft recover.

I hope they don't see it until they have had time to take it all in. RIP to all.

[TOWTEAMBASE]

Duncan

It may be a military forum, but as far as I was aware it was a civilian aircraft/crew. Have some heart, it happened yesterday !!!!

[Lonewolf_50]

T:

I appreciate your strong reaction. I don't disagree that some will be disturbed by seeing it unfold.

We don't all react in the same way to the same thing.

You more or less have to go looking for this clip. I doubt a family member will randomly run across the video, but some may in fact want to see the end. Each person is differently disposed.

As someone who has previously investigated fatal aircraft accidents, it interests me. As tragic as it is to watch (and to imagine what was going on in the cockpit as it all went wrong) it is also of professional interest. I went well beyond fingers and toes in counting the friends and colleagues I have lost in aircraft crashes and mishaps over the years. Often all one got was an accident report or a second to fifth hand narration.

Please note the P in PPRuNe.

PS: civil crew on a military mission, contracted to carry military equipment. It's in the news release on what they were transporting: five vehicles.

[Professor Plum]

TTB,

Totally agree.

Lonewolf

The footage is easily googled. Have some thought for the families. If I crashed during my flight tomorrow, and my wife saw footage like that the day after, I can't imagine how she'd feel.

I too have had friends killed in crashes. Many crashes also are relevant to me professionally. Thats what the accident reports are for.

Often all one got was an accident report or a second to fifth hand narration.


Instead of what, exactly?

RIP. Condolences to the families. Terrible.

[TOWTEAMBASE]

Thanks prof plum, and everyone else that can see where I'm coming from

[NutLoose]

Agreed, I had seen it on live leak and decided not to link it here or anywhere, such a tragic loss, though the dates on the film differs from that of the supposed date of the incident, reported elsewhere say it was suspected cargo shift... I have to admit one would have thought a dim view should be taken in posting such a film online so close to the events... Not cool.

Either way, Condolences to the families and Rest In Peace guys, you may not have been in uniform, but you were just as much heroes in my eyes.



..

[ch5120]

Im sure this footage is probably been shown on the American News Broadcasts so posting a clip on here wont really add to what is out there.
The re-runs of the Boston Marathon bombing was shown again and again as was 911 into the Twin Towers so soon after. Yes its distressing to watch the crash, even to a non-related observer but todays world now expects this sort of thing to be beamed into our TV rooms and computer screens.......sign of the times.

[VinRouge]

Doubt it was a cargo shift. Waiting till the investigation is done, but my bet was the load was well out of limits when the jet got airborne.

Either way, RIP guys and thoughts with the families, and to all those involved on the ground at OAIX.

[Lonewolf_50]

Professor Plum:

It is not an either or issue.
The footage is easily googled. Have some thought for the families.

I don't accept your false dichotomy. As I stated above, some family members would not want to see it, and others would want to know, if they could. People differ in their reactions.
If I crashed during my flight tomorrow, and my wife saw footage like that the day after, I can't imagine how she'd feel.
What are the odds your wife would be googling for crash video the day after, Professor?

As above, we each react differently.

Vin Rouge:

Most likely would seem to me to be ...

a. Load shift aft
b. Load / ACFT mistakenly out of CG
c. Runaway trim?
d. ????? (some other flight control malfunction)

We shall see.

For those getting upset at the video:

how many of you seen a crash happen right in front of you, in real life? You don't get to look away, you don't get to rewind, but there it is, right in front of you, as it happens. (I imagine a few of you have seen such, given this is a Mil Aircrew Forum).

Well, I have. It's something you never forget.

[Buster Hyman]

News outlets would be salivating to broadcast that, accident investigators would find it educational, and the morbidly curious will always press play.

At least on the Internet, families can choose not to watch, as opposed to it being thrust upon them in a news bulletin.


To each, their own.

[SASless]

I would take solace knowing my loved one left this World without suffering and died doing what they loved doing. There is nothing grotesque about the video and as in anything one has the ability to simply not watch the video.

All this hand wringing doesn't change the cause or results of the crash and death of the people aboard.

People die in this business we participate in....always have...always will. That is the risk we accept when we put the Wings on our Chests.....the families understand that.

Sad to see it happen....but that is Life.

Learn from what happened if we can....and try to prevent it from happening again....at least then they were not lost without any good whatsoever coming from it.

[F4TCT]

Holy bloody moley.

That's taken me aback somewhat.

RIP to those involved.

Dan

[Paul C]

This is what the wife of one of the crew posted on The Aviation Herald.

My husbands death
By Linda Garrett on Tuesday, Apr 30th 2013 23:14Z


My ex husband was a mechanic on this plane. I appreciate the person(s) who filmed the last few seconds of my husbands life. I and it makes me feel the raw pain and fear he must've felt in those last few seconds of his life. It is something I can keep for remembrance of his dedication and love for he job he worked at for 23 years. It was truly his first love. My life is forever changed by this lost, and now his daughters must grow up without his love and support. God speed and fly high my love, i'll see you some day soon......

[GreenKnight121]

ch5120.

No, it hasn't been shown... not once.

I watched all 3 morning national network shows both Monday morning and Tuesday morning, and 2 of the 3 national evening news shows the same evenings.

No mention of the accident at all, much less a showing of the video.

[Onceapilot]

At first hand, does look like the load or trim position could be the main problem.
Amazed that the sound does not seem to include comments until well after the accident.

RIP

[Jumping_Jack]

Well, it's all over the Mailonline now, seem to think it was a load shift aft causing a stall. Condolences to the families.

[Buster Hyman]

Would a load shift cause it to roll forward to a nose down position?

[herkman]

A load shift on take off, always can bring on a tail down situation, which in turn can mean that one gets into a non recoverable attitude.

Shame that the crew were helpless.

So sad so very sad.

Regards

Col

[Peter G-W]

When Mr Benouli throws in the towel, Mr Newton takes over.

[dead_pan]

What a horrific accident. I was just willing that bl00dy plane to fly.

Deepest condolences to the family.

[ChrisJ800]

Im in a layover in Auckland and they played a clip from the video on the news here just now, whilst saying it 'could be a fake video'. Looks a real enough stall/wingdrop to me and Im sure the clip is being aired around the world if its being shown here.

[Old Fella]

I wish to support LoneWolf_50. Those whom choose to criticize his posting in regard to this horrific crash seem to ignore the fact that the footage has gone viral on the internet and on TV News worldwide.

[fromTheShadows]

Amazed that the sound does not seem to include comments until well after the accident.Well the voice on the tape sounds British, and therefore automatically not predisposed to over exclamation. Add to that the fact he is presumably also current or ex military. Even the eventual "oh f**k" seems more like exasperation that he can't get hold of anyone, rather than a reaction to the crash itself.

[Lonewolf_50]

Amazed that the sound does not seem to include comments until well after the accident
A couple of the posters over on the R & N forum (and the thread there regarding this crash) know a bit about cameras, mics, and audio clipping of dashboard cameras. Their explanation helps clarify why you hear the impact but not a lot else on the video clip.

Old Fella: thank you sir. :ok:

Just to be clear, I have not posted any video, but I am grateful to those who posted the links here.

One might ask: how did that video get out of that camera and onto the web so quickly? :confused: I wonder if anyone is in trouble over that.

LiveLeak is well named.

[sisemen]

It's certainly on the TV news in Oz.

[GreenKnight121]

By the way... I finally saw the first mention of the crash on network news.

The Today show (NBC morning news) announced that the names of those killed have been released, and showed the video once without comment other than an initial warning of disturbing content. They then went on to the next story without giving the names, just that 6 of the deceased were from Michigan and the 7th was from Kentucky.

For full disclosure, this link includes the names: Video: Boeing 747 crash at Bagram Airfield military base kills 7 (http://www.digitaljournal.com/article/349195)

[Capetonian]

It was pretty horrific to watch and I fear I will think of it next time I take off, particularly if it's in a 747. Silly, I know, but human nature to do so.

I don't see any value in its being posted here as it's out in the public domain, on TV, and so on. By the same criterion, I don't see any harm in posting it here either, nobody has to watch it.

I would not have wanted to be the first person to post it.

Very tragic and one can only hope that, as with so many accidents, the results of the enquiry will help to ensure that, whatever the cause, it doesn't happen again.

[BEagle]

Although 'load shift' is strongly rumoured to be the cause of this accident, there is always the possibility of incorrectly stated load weights.

Years ago, a C-130 containing military vehicles nearly sat on its bum when the ramp was raised, because one of said vehicles had been stuffed full of contraband by some squaddie and was far heavier than the manifest stated. As luck would have it, the vehicle was right at the back of the cargo area...

Mass and balance and insecure loads must be the ever-present nightmare of the cargo flier. One of the more graphic, fortunately survivable, descriptions can be found in Ernest Gann's Fate is the Hunter when several tons of steel radio towers became loose during his take-off in a C-47, sliding to the back of the aircraft....

[langleybaston]

I just wonder if something similar to the Hastings El Adem 1961 crash happened ... I was serving at Nicosia at the time and story was that it was a runaway captain's seat.
Never heard the full version.

[TheChitterneFlyer]

Buster Hyman; Would a load shift cause it to roll forward to a nose down
position?


This must be the understatement of the year/decade! Armchair PPruner at his best!

[TheChitterneFlyer]

Doubt it was a cargo shift. Waiting till the investigation is done, but my
bet was the load was well out of limits when the jet got airborne.



Why would you doubt the cargo shift theory? Yet another PPrune "armchair after the event" speculator!

[Buster Hyman]

This must be the understatement of the year/decade! Armchair PPruner at his best!
You'll note the handy use of the question mark at the end which denotes a question, not a statement! Exclamation marks indicate statements, but well done for turning the thread into a witch hunt! :rolleyes:

[tartare]

Don't see any problem with the video being posted here.
I think we should ease up on the poster.
Yes - horrific for the families and very, very sad.
Some additional context - Ch9 here in Oz reported the poor co-pilot had only just got married.
This accident is chilling to watch for anyone who's ever held a yoke, stick or control column.
But we are all pilots, or interested in flight, interested in safety and no doubt want to learn from these tragedies.
And precisely for that reason I make myself watch these sorts of things to continually remind myself that there are very serious consequences for making errors or overlooking the basics in aviation, no matter how big or small the aircraft - assuming that it is a load shift.
And I'm not blaming the crew for that either.
These videos can serve to teach and I don't think it's gratuitous to post them.
I can see an instructor saying to a room full of Cessna flying PPLs "You think weight and balance isn't important? Well watch this."
Flying is a serious business, demanding exacting attention to detail - ignore that detail and it WILL kill you.
Little Tartare is 11, mad keen on flight sims - determined to be a pilot - and he watched it last night.
We had a long discussion afterwards about weight and balance, centre of gravity, and what may have happened.
The Fairchild B52 crash is another I watch from time to time when I feel I'm getting a little complacent - although that was different, deliberate risk taking.
Don't get low, slow and steep airman, or the ground will rise up and smite thee...

[GreenKnight121]

Married two weeks ago, with a child due in October.


I immediately flashed back to the video of the USN C-2 Greyhound crash... BuNo 155120, of VRC-50. The cargo broke free and shifted aft during a catapult launch from USS Ranger CV-61 in the Gulf of Tonkin on 15 December 1970.

Among the 9 aboard were a CPO heading home for his retirement ceremony and a sailor heading to his father's funeral... all 9 perished.


The video is on youtube, just google "C-2 load shift crash".

[November4]

Well....according to a National Air Cargo statement (http://www.sacbee.com/2013/05/01/5387895/statement-from-national-air-cargo.html#storylink=cpy)

National Air Cargo will not speculate as to the cause of the accident involving National Flight NCR102. With our full cooperation, an investigation by appropriate authorities is under way, and we encourage everyone to join us in respecting that process and allowing it to take its appropriate course.

Here are some facts regarding the aircraft and its movements prior to the accident:


National Flight NCR102 was en route to Dubai from Camp Bastian and had stopped to refuel at Bagram Air Base.
The cargo contained within the aircraft was properly loaded and secured, and had passed all necessary inspections prior to departing Camp Bastian.
The aircraft landed safely and uneventfully in Bagram.
No additional cargo or personnel was added during the stop in Bagram, and the aircraft's cargo was again inspected prior to departure.

[Onceapilot]

Quote:

National Air Cargo will not speculate as to the cause of the accident involving National Flight NCR102. With our full cooperation, an investigation by appropriate authorities is under way, and we encourage everyone to join us in respecting that process and allowing it to take its appropriate course.

Here are some facts regarding the aircraft and its movements prior to the accident:


National Flight NCR102 was en route to Dubai from Camp Bastian and had stopped to refuel at Bagram Air Base.
The cargo contained within the aircraft was properly loaded and secured, and had passed all necessary inspections prior to departing Camp Bastian.
The aircraft landed safely and uneventfully in Bagram.
No additional cargo or personnel was added during the stop in Bagram, and the aircraft's cargo was again inspected prior to departure.

As this is a rumour network, it is worth noting some points in that statement.
1. Although it may have refueled there, Bagram is quite a long way in the opposite direction to Dubai from Bastion (Bastian). Why specify the need to refuel and that the previous sector was from Bastion?
2. It would be strange if the cargo was not properly secured and the paperwork not in order.
3. Previous landing was safe? No kidding!?
4. No cargo added. Was cargo removed?

A very strange statement, they say they want everyone to respect the process then, throw a raft of unproven "facts" into the fray.
Seems strange to me.

OAP

[jayteeto]

All they are trying to say is that this exact load had previously flown safely. I think that is a fair comment to make when the world is questioning everything about this flight.
I don't see any problem in posting the video, you have a choice to press play or not. If it ever happens to me, feel free to speculate, guess or theorise about my accident or my shortcomings. Someone MIGHT just learn enough to save themselves.

[Trim Stab]

Why the stop at Bagram? The runways at Bagram and Bastion are about the same length, so it is unlikely that their fuel upload was performance limited at Bastion, and so unlikely that they needed to stop at Bagram purely for refuelling. Given the statement above, did they therefore stop at Bagram to unload some cargo?