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DX Wombat
30th Apr 2013, 17:05
Willem-Alexander Prince of Orange has today been sworn in as King of the Netherlands. BBC item here. (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-22353398)

tony draper
30th Apr 2013, 17:27
Sworn in? dont they have proper Coronations over there?
Least the Queen didn't abdicate to marry a Colonial.
:rolleyes:

cavortingcheetah
30th Apr 2013, 17:54
There was a fishy fraud there too, a Lieutenant dressed up as a Grand Admiral.

Davaar
30th Apr 2013, 18:18
a Lieutenant dressed up as a Grand Admiral.

At "The Wedding", Cavorting?

My memory way be hazy, but rightly or wrongly it tells me he was craftily disguised as a Lieutenant, RN.

He did sport a chestful of campaign ribbons and he had been "mentioned in dispatches", one below a decoration; like his father-in-law at Jutland, actually, where he too had been just a Lieutenant, RN. The "mention" entitled both, I believe, to the single oak leaf worn on the campaign ribbon.

Lon More
30th Apr 2013, 18:29
No coronation here Mr. D. The monarchy is much more down to earth here.
I bumped into Willem-Alexander once when he was in the Navy, seemed a nice bloke enjoying a run ashore in Dunfermline

Tankertrashnav
30th Apr 2013, 21:53
Son who lives in Delft was there in Dam Square with his wife. He saw Charles and Camilla there - apparently Charles was our rep at the celebrations when Queen Beatrix took over from her mother in 1980 and now he's there to see a much younger man than him get the job.

"Always the bridesmaid - never the blushing bride" must be the thought thats passing through his head!

Davaar - quite right, Prince Philip is one of the few royals with some "real" medals, including a maximum set of five campaign stars, all earned fair and square.

mini
30th Apr 2013, 22:18
King? Queen? one greater than all others?

Pageantry, carry on, its cute. :E

Davaar
1st May 2013, 00:26
one of the few royals with some "real" medals

Well, there was the late King, gunnery officer in HMS Collingwood at Jutland; and his brother killed in that Sunderland crash, as I recall, in WW2; and the young fella in the chopper at the Falklands; and Prince Harry in Afghanistan; and Prince William in his helicopter at Valley (not in a war, of course, but I can rattle off a long list of pilots killed flying at Valley, not in a war, because there was no war at the time, but still dead); and then the Queen herself was in the ATS during the war. The late Queen Mother's brother was killed fighting in France in WW1.

Not so very few, really?

Milo Minderbinder
1st May 2013, 00:40
Can't we trade in our bunch of royals and share the Dutch ones and save some money? We did it once before in 1689

Hydromet
1st May 2013, 00:46
"Always the bridesmaid - never the blushing bride" must be the thought thats passing through his head!
I think it was at HM's jubilee celebrations that someone asked "When will this rain end?", to which Charles nodded in sympathy.

tony draper
1st May 2013, 07:31
Tint fair,the Cousins get to elect a feckwit with sticky out ears,we will have one thrust upon us.
:rolleyes:

hellsbrink
1st May 2013, 07:39
Ah, Mr. D, but then we can complain about said Wingnut being imposed on us and that's something we couldn't really do if said Wingnut was the most popular choice in an election.

Tankertrashnav
1st May 2013, 08:18
Davaar - Yes fair point about those you mentioned. In a general sense, however, royals do tend to be bedecked with medals simply because they are who they are rather than anything they have done or achieved. Canada has just bestowed two more orders on Prince Philip as though the poor bugger didn't already have enough to carry around!

Prince Philip presents regimental colours in Toronto - Toronto - CBC News (http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/toronto/story/2013/04/27/prince-philip.html?cmp=rss)

Davaar
1st May 2013, 12:56
Hells and Tanker .... I can't really disagree. Not that I want to, of course.

Evanelpus
1st May 2013, 15:56
She probably felt confident that the time was right and that Willem was a worthy succesor.

There is no way Lizzie is going to step down for old wing nut, he's absolutely barking.:*

tony draper
1st May 2013, 16:07
The Prince of Wales gig has been cursed throughout our history.:uhoh:

G&T ice n slice
1st May 2013, 17:46
Can't we trade in our bunch of royals and share the Dutch ones and save some money? We did it once before in 1689

well... I suspect that if we did the Dutch would definitely save money...

Somehow I think we'd end up puzzled and out of pocket.

Be very careful when negotiating monetary stuff with the Dutch, lovely people but very,very "careful". They think Yorkshiremen & Scotsmen and spendthrifts.

Davaar
1st May 2013, 18:41
The Prince of Wales gig has been cursed throughout our history

Were we really fair to the boy, though? Did he have a chance?

Suppose they had called him "Owen Glyn Gwillim ap Tudor ap Windsor-Saxe-Coburg-Gotha-Battenberg" ........... or "Ethelbert" for short, just to bring in the Saxon, pre-Norman, pre-First Reich Holy Roman Empire, spin?

Instead of that ill-fated "Charlie"?

One of the Charlies lost his head, the next was a waster, and after him another who interviewed for the job was chased out. Not a promising record.

As for our very own one, I do try to keep in mind that he did qualify as a pilot, he did command a coastal minesweeper, he did win parachutist wings, and he is, I think, a qualified submarine officer. That last means that he did that awful swimming test at Portsmouth, out of that bubble and up endlessly to the top; and he did go padding around below the Arctic Ice-Cap. Not for me.

After all; what the lad likes to do is play the 'cello! ............. and even there they might have steered him towards the trombone.

Davaar
1st May 2013, 18:45
Be very careful when negotiating monetary stuff with the Dutch

Do not forget the despatch from Canning in London to Sir Charles Bagot, Brit minister at the Hague, 1826:

In matters of commerce the fault of the Dutch
Is offering too little and asking too much.

tony draper
1st May 2013, 20:04
Hmmm, dunno one is quite a fan of Charles II and his era,apart from his deathbed conversion of course,a good time to be a rich man with scientific curiosity and no connection to those dirty Parliamentarian what did in his dad.
Not a good time to be poor though,no era was or is, including our own.
:rolleyes:

Juud
1st May 2013, 20:16
A record even for this bastion of British navel gazing.

It took only one post to go from talking about the new Dutch King to talking about the UK.
Again.
Shame there's no yawn smiley.

As for (miniature) medals on royal chest; Willem Alexander wore the 11 Cities Cross yesterday, 2nd from the right. Picture (http://theroyalcorrespondent.files.wordpress.com/2013/04/thekingwa.jpg)
The only one he actually did something big for, other than being born.
He skated. :p

Queen Beatrix deserves retirement, 33 years of duty duty duty seems enough.
The new King seems a solid and stolid sort and his wife a smart, charming and pretty lady. They do the country good.
And yes, it was a lovely day, thank you all so much for your kind words.

Oh, there weren't any?

My mistake. :cool:

Davaar
1st May 2013, 21:37
...and to think I had just been going to recall the visits the Dutch naval air arm frequently paid to RNAS Ford before it became an open prison.

They flew over in a group or clutch or gaggle of Grumman Avengers. It was a pleasure to watch them arrive. These were heavy single-engine tail-dragger anti submarine piston aircraft, and they would grind around the circuit, downwind to finals, and then to the approach, apparently with the propellers in fine pitch for max thrust.

Why so?

The explanation became obvious at the moment of touch-down. The very split second the pilot cut the throttle, these great birds settled on three points like great lumps of dough. There was not a hint of bounce; not a shade of shaky landing.

Were they such fantastic pilots?

Of course! but was that all?

Of course not, and the explanation for step two lay in the tinkle or clatter that came with the landing, for the bomb-bays were heavy-laden with precious cargo.

I do not have in mind bombs or depth-charges or other anti-submarine materiel rubbish. No!

These dedicated mariners prudently left nothing to chance, and came all the way from far-distant Valkenburg fully-equipped with essential stores for their visit. No logistical uncertainties would put them at risk for the duty-free Schnapps that formed the main, and in fact we suspected, only, freight
of these daring aviators.

Miss Juud is mistaken, I venture, if she perceives a lingering coolness between the Brits, certainly of my day, and the then successors of Admiral van Tromp.

More than that, I remember being at an "RPC" on board a Dutch frigate of the day, and meeting a Dutch sub-lieutenant or maybe lieutenant. I hope it is a not unforgiveable breach of his confidence over the past fifty-plus years if I divulge his name and extend my best wishes to the then sub-lieutenant Doorman.

I hope he is still alive and well. His late father had been the Admiral Karel Doorman who went down with his ship in the Battle of the Coral Sea.

I remember too a movie ("The Silver Fleet") from around 1943 (P.S. Just checked in Wikipedia. It was 1943. Googie Withers and Ralph Richardson) or so, starring Googie Withers. It concerned a scheme by a Dutch shipbuilder to sink a U-Boat built at his yard. The Kriegsmarine harboured nasty suspicions of sabotage, and insisted that when the U-Boat went off on diving trials the top man at the yard would be on board. That was their life-insurance, as it were.

Little did they realise that he was quite prepared for that and did sabotage the U-Boat in any event, going down himself with the boat.

There was a song that went with the movie: "The Silver Fleet", that recalled a much earlier fixture with not dissimilar motives between the Dutch and the Spaniards in the Caribbean. There was a scene, through an open school window, of a bolshie teacher leading a class of urchins in the song.

I think the Dutch commander of that earlier day was one "Piet Hein".

We sailed across the bay
With a trim little fleet;
With a trim little fleet went we-Oh!
We said we would hunt
For the Navy of Spain,
And send it a-down below-Oh.

Ha! Ha!
Ho! Ho!
We old Dutch sailors know,
That the pretty Silver Fleet,
With its armour all complete,
Found the Dutchman a hefty foe!'

This is by memory after seventy years.

How am I doing so far, Juud?

G&T ice n slice
1st May 2013, 21:42
Hi Juud

I did put a "happy Queen's day" on the "why like the Dutch" thread
It was very nearly in something almost like the Nederlands Taal....

Anyway...

"Happy Queen's day"

I used to live in Hoofddorp for a short while, just opposite the post office
I was amazed at the way the main street filled up with so many people with their personal "jumble" sales.... and the way that the very next morning everything was agaon neat & tidy and no-one would have guessed what it loooked like 12 hours previously.

tony draper
1st May 2013, 21:51
I only commented on the lack of a proper Coronation,after all the Dutch King we had got one.:=

G-CPTN
1st May 2013, 22:06
Instead of that ill-fated "Charlie"

Charles Philip Arthur George Mountbatten Windsor (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charles,_Prince_of_Wales) I believe.

Davaar
1st May 2013, 22:58
Yes! Yes! G-C, but the one that sticks out is "Charlie". You know that. I know that. They might as well have called him "John".

Juud
2nd May 2013, 06:13
Like they might as well have called this thread "British Crown Princes" you mean?

G&T :ok:

A long standing tradition, bottles in bomb bays apparently Davaar.

DX Wombat
2nd May 2013, 11:32
Like they might as well have called this thread "British Crown Princes" you mean?
:mad: :mad: :mad: Not likely Juud, they already get sufficient publicity. It was started as an attempt at a happy antidote to all the misery, carping and whining etc which we have had on here recently. :\ I'm glad it turned out to be a happy day for one and all.
You can always look on the bright side Juud, in a few months time we will be suffering a surfeit of coronation anniversary mania. It's good to remember these events but the media does tend to go overboard. :\ You will be able to have a bit of fun putting forward a suitable point of view. :E

OFSO
2nd May 2013, 13:02
Did the Orangemen celebrate this one ? (Serious question, I want to know).

MagnusP
2nd May 2013, 13:07
I suspect that with the return of a William of Orange to a position of power, no matter how symbolic, flutes throughout NI and parts of Scotland would have been brought out for a polish.

Davaar
2nd May 2013, 15:21
Oh, there weren't any?


I am quite surprised, distressed even, at the tone this thread is developing:

1. Princess Margriet of the Netherlands was born not two miles from where I write this in territory that was carved out from Canada and made into part of the Netherlands solely to ensure that she arrived on her native turf;

2. The carved lectern in St Andrew's Church of the Presbyterian Church in Canada, right opposite the Supreme Court of Canada, same distance from here, was given by the Dutch Royal family in thanks for their worship there during the war;

3. In a week or two Ottawa will be a blaze of tulips, in the world's largest tulip festival, so we are told. The bulbs are an annual gift to Canada from the Netherlands for the same reason of hospitality as in 2. above;

4. Every year a group, now diminishing due to age, of veterans makes the trip from Canada to the Netherlands in memory of the Canadian liberation of the Netherlands, relief of starvation there, and the memory of their comrades who did not come home after their first visit and did not survive to die of old age;

5. The group in 4. above is always accorded, to go by media reports, the warmest reception by the Dutch, reunions between old men in decorations and campaign medals won in the Netherlands, in Royal Canadian Legion blazers and berets or regimental headgear reuniting with elderly Dutch locals who assisted the invasion, and so on;

6. One big marketing point of Dutch Royalty is that they are so very very unlike British Royalty, so very modestly superior, no fanfares, ride everywhere on the family bicycle, mingle constantly with all the other Dutch, do not have a coronation, just hate to have a fuss over their Royalty, in fact are wholly against such fuss, and you can fill in the rest.

7. I see nothing in the thread that is inconsistent with the Dutch view of their own Dutch Royalty, or an attack on its members, some of whom over the past fifty years .... Well, I'll leave that aside.

8. The only criticisms I see here are directed at the poor old Prince of Wales for falling short of some notions of perfection.

9. Whether or not the Dutch Queen was right to abdicate is a matter for those whom it concerns,. of whom I am not one.

10. If they do not want a fuss, as they do not, then I shall not fuss. Others seem to share that. Thread drift is invariable in every thread, I'd say.

11. The Queen has abdicated; LONG LIVE THE KING, at least until abdication.

Like they might as well have called this thread "British Crown Princes" you mean?


That is not at all what I meant. If I had meant that I should have written that.

Juud
2nd May 2013, 17:18
Davaar, I, as the Norwegians say, lie myself down flat immediately.

Meaning, you are of course entirely correct.


peace tulip ===>
............... ..... http://i1178.photobucket.com/albums/x372/Juud81/ScreenShot2013-05-02at191520_zpsed0c511e.png (http://s1178.photobucket.com/user/Juud81/media/ScreenShot2013-05-02at191520_zpsed0c511e.png.html)

tony draper
2nd May 2013, 18:10
Think the Cloggies missed out meself,lorra money to be made holding a Coronation.
Holland would have been awash with jealous republicans pockets bulging wi dollars to see how it's done in proper countries:rolleyes:

DX Wombat
2nd May 2013, 18:27
And in return - the Peace Rose. :)

http://www.jardinclassicgardens.com/p/rose%20peace.jpg

Davaar
2nd May 2013, 18:48
If I only knew how, I'd send one too.

DX Wombat
2nd May 2013, 23:00
Here you are Davaar, one for you to send too.

http://0.tqn.com/d/gardening/1/0/Z/A/Shahzad_Rose8.jpg

Edited to add; I had a thought Davaar and decided that as you live across The Pond a picture of "Chicago Peace" might be a little more appropriate but if you would prefer me to post a different one just let me know.

Davaar
3rd May 2013, 00:18
That one is lovely in itself, thank you; but what is "Chicago Peace"? I guess it is a variant?

G&T ice n slice
3rd May 2013, 07:34
1. Princess Margriet of the Netherlands was born not two miles from where I write this in territory that was carved out from Canada and made into part of the Netherlands solely to ensure that she arrived on her native turf;

That seems like an amazing piece of lateral thinking by government. Is it still a little piece of the NL?

DX Wombat
3rd May 2013, 10:30
Davaar, yes it is, it was discovered in Chicago. There is a little information here. (http://www.edmundsroses.com/dp.asp?pID=23599&c=6&p=Chicago+Pea..)

tony draper
3rd May 2013, 10:46
I though Roses were discovered in Persia?:uhoh:

DX Wombat
3rd May 2013, 10:56
It was the variant of "Peace" which was discovered in Chicago Mr D, long after roses had made their way into our gardens. :)

Davaar
3rd May 2013, 12:15
Is it still a little piece of the NL?

I'll try to find out. I'll get back to you, but it may take a day or two.

G-CPTN
3rd May 2013, 13:17
Quote:
Is it still a little piece of the NL?
I'll try to find out. I'll get back to you, but it may take a day or two.

It never was:-

The maternity ward of Ottawa Civic Hospital in which Princess Margriet was born was temporarily declared to be extraterritorial by the Canadian government.
Making the maternity ward outside of the Canadian domain caused it to be unaffiliated with any jurisdiction and technically international territory.
This was done to ensure that the newborn Princess would derive her citizenship from her mother only, thus making her solely Dutch.
It is a common misconception that the Canadian government declared the maternity ward to be Dutch territory. Since Dutch nationality law is based primarily on the principle of Jus sanguinis it was not necessary to make the ward Dutch territory for the Princess to become a Dutch citizen. Since Canada followed the rule of jus soli, it was necessary for Canada to disclaim the territory temporarily so that the Princess would not, by virtue of birth on Canadian soil, become a Canadian citizen.

From:- Princess Margriet of the Netherlands - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Princess_Margriet_of_the_Netherlands#Birth_in_Canada)

Davaar
3rd May 2013, 17:25
It never was:-


Well there we are!

It always helps to have a Wikipedia Scholar readily available with the latest pedantry, relevant and material.

I had been going with the local agitprop.

The result is the same.

Now, which part of Scotland is part of Canada, and why? Unless Wikipedia says different, of course.

G-CPTN
3rd May 2013, 17:35
The result is the same.
Precisely - and I never would have known about this without your initial report. :ok:

Davaar
3rd May 2013, 17:51
Good! And now I too know better than I did, thanks to "further researches".

Now ....How about that bit of Canada in Scotland? And I confess that I am going by popular and "official" report, which gives me doubt right there. But where? And when? A clue: it was pre-Confederation.

tony draper
3rd May 2013, 22:00
The top of Scotland ie North of the Great Glen was once part of the lump of Geology that later became Canada,it snapper off the Canadian Shield when the Atlantic opened up or because Iceland made a appearance one misremembers now,top end of Scotland is the oldest part of the British Isles,some bits have rocks over three billion years old.
:)
PS Bishop Ussher would probably disagree with the above,as he opined that Scotland had only been around since 4004 BC

Davaar
3rd May 2013, 23:09
Probably true.

The good Bishop Ussher still has his followers, but he is not da Man in the present conundrum. Keep trying, Old Man.

Anyway he was Irish or as one splendid Irish QFI once demolished an English flying student who was bumming on about "the family" being "Ahrish, y'know": "Ach! Ye'se're nat Irish at aall! Ye'se're joost gintry"

I suppose, of course, you're going to tell us that Bishop U was wrong, and after him doing all those family trees, never the easiest trees at that.

tony draper
4th May 2013, 07:17
To be fair to the chap as one has mentioned before Bishop Ussher did use the Scientific Method and employed all the data available at the time in his calculations.
PS,To be honest one could not remember the good Bishops name so inserted the words 'Age of the Earth' into google and was directed to youtube, was amazed to find many clips in his defense and how the chap has been right all along.
Retrospective Nobel Prize in the offing?
:uhoh:

Lon More
4th May 2013, 08:49
1) the one Scot most of the world has heard of was, in fact, Dutch. Jan de Groote obtained a grant for the ferry from the Scottish mainland to Orkney, recently acquired from Norway, from James IV, King of Scots, in 1496. The lower case and apostrophe in "John o' Groats" are regarded by many as correct, as the "o'" means "of" and thus is not cognate with Irish names that begin with O', even though that usage also denoted "of"; but the name can be found with the capital and/or without the apostrophe. People from John o' Groats are known as "Groatsers". Local legend has the name John o' Groats termed to reflect the Dutch ferryman's charge of one groat payment for the journey to the islands.

2}Willem van Oranje and 14000 troops crossed the Maas here, in Obbicht, in October 1568 to do battle with the Spanish troops of Duke Alva. This is commeorated by a memorial unveiled by the new King in 1999.

edited to add; Davaar asked which part of Scotland is part of Canada,
Something to do with trees IIRC

Davaar
4th May 2013, 09:35
one could not remember the good Bishops name

One has also had one's (one means, of course, one's other one's) forget-experience, increasingly of late, one sometimes thinks, in various contexts, of which one must admit this 'ere one is indeed one.

One was, though, at a rather evangelical Church service once, at which the pastor quite casually in the passing made reference to the 4,004 year world-history premise. One was savouring the post-service coffee and cookie which are such an attractive feature of church services over here, provided gratis by the good ladies of the choir.

The reference was obviously intended with such total acceptance, not at all argumentatively or provocatively, that one decided right away not to disagree with or challenge one, although one does recall mentioning the incident later to one's wife, who was not with one that day (not, in fact, with ether one) that one had just realised that one wholly believed it, although one, oneself of course, did not. She too. It would have been terribly ill-mannered to disagree with one, and it crossed one's mind that maybe all those smart-ass geologists are not so very knowledgeable after all. Who is to say?

One recalled one's own brief acquaintance with geology. The University of Glasgow had the bizarre requirement that Arts undergraduates take a "science subject". Never having looked at geology one enrolled and rolled along to the first class.

At that introductory lecture, one gathered, for one is not wholly a slow-wit in such [I]arcana, that the Professor entertained the notion that one would, in common with other ones among his audience, buy or otherwise procure a "ball-peen", one rather thinks he said, hammer.

Armed with such ball-peen hammer, and perhaps a sandwich or "piece" prepared by one's dear old Granny, one would arrive at University Avenue around 0430 to guarantee a good seat, set off in a jolly bus, singing merrily, to the foot of Ben Lomond, some 30 miles away and 3,000' high (which makes it a "Munro", and for that reason no doubt doubly attractive to one's vis--vis in Geordietown, but not to oneself in Glasgow), climb or ascend the 3,000',on foot, not by bus, no doubt in the perennial rain, and knock lumps or "specimens" off the top. Just to look at them, for goodness' sake!

Are you "for real", matey? Did you just say the bus leaves at 0500? That means that one would have to get up at 0330! Ya gorra be havin' wan oan, Jummy, so ye dae, but. 'Sno' oan. No' fur wan! Youse is oot o' yer tree.so yese is. Wan is tell'n yese.

Instantly one knew this was not for one, so one there and then de-registered, went of to fresh fields and pastures new, and enrolled in chemistry. One did a good thing.

One may have been a great loss to geology, neither Geology nor one will ever know, really, but one has never regretted that decision. One did the right thing, the wise thing, the prudent thing. So really, one did have the opportunity to do the research, and threw it away; so what right does one have to suggest one's Reverend teacher was wrong in that piddling matter of the 4,004 years?

tony draper
4th May 2013, 09:46
Who knows, many of the greatest names in Geology hailed from North of the wall,but it were more a Edinburgh thing then Glasgow if I recall correctly.:)

Davaar
4th May 2013, 09:49
Again, one probably agrees.

P.S. draoer, Old Man, or Old One, one hesitates to mention this, but one fears that one, in fact two, is or are wandering quite far from Dutch Royalty. Is this safe, would one ask?

tony draper
4th May 2013, 10:29
Just thought it in line with bits of one country stuck on another,bit tenuous I admit.
We had a bit of Belgium stuck onto our town in 1914,Elisabethville it was called a more or less independent Belgium town stuck onto ours with their own police schools ect
They built and manned a large munitions factory that manufactured ball for our muskets, later became the Royal Ordinance Factory,most of the Belgii buggad orf home after we had crushed the Hun but many stayed.
:)

handsfree
4th May 2013, 10:43
http://i829.photobucket.com/albums/zz216/poodlejumpy/images-2_zpsc4a11e4b.jpg
http://i829.photobucket.com/albums/zz216/poodlejumpy/tumblr_maesgqzJyc1rgb0f5o1_500_zps24de1555.jpg

Haal mijn klompen alstublieft.
:)
Ik ben met u Juud

Lon More
4th May 2013, 14:26
Is that Camilla's head poking up in the background of the second picture?

Lon More
6th May 2013, 07:12
windmill in old amsterdam (I saw a mouse) Ronnie Hilton - YouTube

I prefer the Dutch
Havenzangers - ik zie een pils. - YouTube