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Fliegenmong
29th Apr 2013, 21:25
:D:D Caught by now no doubt :D

https://www.google.com.au/url?url=http://goo.gl/jUBB2&rct=j&sa=X&ei=MeN-UaXqJa2RigeooYG4Cw&ved=0CI8BELEHMBA&q=courier+mail&usg=AFQjCNEsaqD-17uj72DEskLXPeovTYqCqQ

Tankertrashnav
29th Apr 2013, 21:37
Interesting, but also for the fact that a petrol pump at a filling station is apparently called a bowser in Australia?

JB is a constant source of information!

RAC/OPS
30th Apr 2013, 06:07
I like the way she went splat Gillardesque on her face.

Slasher
30th Apr 2013, 07:15
Phone Crime Stoppers on 1800 333000 if you have information about the drive-off.

Crime Stoppers. They call it Crime Stoppers.

Bwahahahahaaaa! :D

Crime Stoppers! Fighting petrol thieves and
parking spot stealers wherever they may be
found in Australia!

Erwin Schroedinger
30th Apr 2013, 08:14
In the UK, the Government is responsible for 60% of this thieving behaviour.

Takan Inchovit
30th Apr 2013, 08:49
I suppose its a change from the petrol stations stealing from us. :*

angels
30th Apr 2013, 08:54
The employee should have discharged the extinguisher into the car.

Mariner9
30th Apr 2013, 09:57
Phone Crime Stoppers on 1800 333000 if you have information about the drive-off.

It would appear from the comments section that some expert amateur sleuths are on the case:

Courier Mail:
...when the driver of the car bearing stolen plates sped away as she filled up.

Comment:
James of Gold coast Posted at 1:48 PM April 29, 2013
Cant they just trace the number plate and identify the thieves?

onetrack
30th Apr 2013, 10:09
The employee should have discharged the extinguisher into the car
:D :D :D :D

Better still - some electronically-activated, pop-up 150mm diameter, concrete-filled bollards in the driveway entrance, would be the go. :E

One press of a button in the service station office, and WHAMMO! - just pick up the wreckage. :)

500N
30th Apr 2013, 10:16
The general consensus on other forums is the attendant
should have thrown the fire extinguisher through the
windscreen and hopefully take out both the heads of
the perps.

And if not, at least hit the car with it.

Windy Militant
30th Apr 2013, 10:29
Can't remember off hand where it was but I stopped to fill up the other day and they had those dragons tooth tyre rippers fitted to the exit of the fuel bay. One way of slowing them down!

Worrals in the wilds
30th Apr 2013, 10:32
Devil's advocate as always...
The servos could fix this problem in a number of ways.
1. Prefill payment.
Sucks because; then no-one comes into the shop with their wallet open and impulse buys a stack of overpriced chippy / drinky junk food items that make the store owner more money than the fuel, which they only sell to get you into the junk food store.

2. Servo attendants that retain control over the bowsers (yes, that's what they're called :\) and fill people's cars for them the way they used to.
Sucks because; costs money :}. Most servos are now manned by one or two cash register attendants to keep the wages down. It's cheaper to absorb the drive off robbery costs.

3. Road spikes that are deactivated once the driver has paid for the fuel.
Sucks because; again, costs money. Servo owners are diametrically opposed to spending money on their asset, as anyone who's been forced to use a servo toilet will attest. It's generally more hygenic to leave the servo, pull over to the side of the road and dig a hole. :ouch:

Service station owners still make more money under the current method of operation than they would if they took steps to prevent thefts. If that wasn't the case then at the very least they'd kit up their forcourts with mechanical aids to prevent drive-offs, but they don't.

Most servos are run using the bare minimum of low paid staff (often foreign) who are routinely threatened by knife and gun toting maniacs as part of their job description, when they're not dodging people who try to run them over. None of the major opeators have made more than a token effort to protect their staff, and consequently I have little sympathy for them.

One operator (who wasn't named in the press so I won't name them here) was deducting the cost of drive off petrol from their sole cash register operators' wages, despite it being impossible for said operators to leave the counter and prevent the drive offs. :yuk: What were they supposed to do anyway; throw themselves in front of the vehicle? :mad:

Very little sympathy; IMO the service station industry perpetuates these thefts and therefore has no right to whine about them. This is a problem they could fix, but they won't.

The general consensus on other forums is the attendantshould have thrown the fire extinguisher through the windscreen and hopefully take out both the heads of the perps.I detect an ARRSEy smell to this theory...:E

500N
30th Apr 2013, 11:20
"I detect an ARRSEy smell to this theory...http://images.ibsrv.net/ibsrv/res/src:www.pprune.org/get/images/smilies/evil.gif"

Nope, not at all. Hunting forums.

One was a cop, one another bloke and the other me.

Cop suggested through the windscreen, I suggested
instead of dropping it at least hit the car to cause damage.
Then we agreed through the windscreen or window would
be the best.

WGAF about them two anyway, the quicker they are put down
the less trouble they will be.

Noah Zark.
30th Apr 2013, 11:46
pull over to the side of the road and dig a hole.

Not easy to do on the M62! (U.K.) :ooh:

angels
30th Apr 2013, 11:57
Hmmm, I earlier said the employee should have discharged the extinguisher at the car. After reading worral's excellent rant I retract.

The thing is, worral reminded me of a mate who during his student days in the 80s had an overnight job in a garage. He hadn't been there long when the garage was visited by armed robbers.

He said when they pointed the gun at him all he could do was look at the barrel and think that it could a spit out a bit of lead that would kill him.

He totally complied with what they told him to do, to the point that the cops had a suspiscion he was in on it. Luckily they subsequently nabbed the robbers a couple of days later for something else and realised he had nothing to do with them.

My mate was fired and not paid his due wages because of the loss the garage had suffered. He was like a jelly for weeks.

teeteringhead
30th Apr 2013, 15:06
Drive offs with stolen/false plates a problem in UK too. When the Senior Teeterette was at Uni, she "drove" an ancient Ford Fiesta. (I say "drove", cos it was very rarely serviceable and/or had tax, insurance and MoT all at the same time.)

One time, after it had been rusting gently in the Uni car park for a few weeks, she noticed that the rear number plate had gone missing. Shortly thereafter, Old Bill comes to call. Yes, there had been a drive off in a car - same model and colour! - seemingly using her stolen plate.

Fortunately when Old Bill saw the "car" (also deserving inverted commas at this stage) - he laughed and agreed it obviously hadn't (couldn't have) moved for weeks.

Might have been a different (and more difficult) story if it had been working ......

G-CPTN
30th Apr 2013, 16:05
When my son lived in London he had both number plates stolen from his Ford Fiesta.

Nothing came of it (no speeding or parking fines and no accusations of stealing petrol), but maybe someone got a cloned vehicle?

Capetonian
30th Apr 2013, 16:18
I went to a service station recently somewhere in Europe (I think it was in Switzerland, it could have been northern Italy on the way to or from Switzerland)) where I had to pass my credit card through the window to the attendant, who activated the pump. I then went inside to pay.

That seems to counter Worrals' objection to prefill payment, and the only problem I can think off is that it could be a stolen or invalid credit card and a drive-off could still happen, but it does substantially reduce the risk.

G-CPTN
30th Apr 2013, 16:32
it does substantially reduce the risk.
and allow the assistant to clone your card.

I avoid using cards at filling stations run by young men of non-European appearance.

Capetonian
30th Apr 2013, 16:42
True, but they can clone your card so quickly anyway that I don't the risk is increased. A couple of years ago I went to a revenue leakage (this being the equivalent to an airline of shoplifting) meeting with an airline and we were shown some of the ways that criminals defraud airlines.

Whilst CC fraud does not really come under this category as it's the bank that pays (or its customers!) it was mentioned, and a demonstration was given of some of the scams, and obviously I'm not at liberty to mention them in detail.

We were shown how a credit card can be brushed across a small device, in this case in the guy's shirt top pocket, reading the data off the mag strip. Then, after the transaction takes place, he can take the rest of the details at his leisure. He would only have to memorise the 3 digit CVV number on the back, for which reason I've scratched all mine off.

500N
30th Apr 2013, 17:13
"We were shown how a credit card can be brushed across a small device, in this case in the guy's shirt top pocket, reading the data off the mag strip."


I think these are the same strip reading devices that they install in ATM machines
that read people's cards when they use the ATM. The "devices" are made to look as though they are a part of the machine.

ExXB
30th Apr 2013, 18:48
Our cards apparently have the data stored in a secure chip, and the unsecure magnetic strip. The chip and PIN (six digit) are secure, but the mag strip is not.

So why do we have both? Apparently a certain N. American country doesn't want to move to the secure chip. So their cards can be accepted in Europe, and v.v. we are stuck having both technologies on all cards.

Isn't standardisation wonderful?

funfly
30th Apr 2013, 21:22
My son was a cashier in a bank some years ago and an armed man pointed a gun at the lady he was serving and demanded that he handed over the cash - which he did, about 2000 I recall.
The bank gave him 200 as compensation:rolleyes:

G-CPTN
30th Apr 2013, 21:26
I guess that automatically locking the doors of a bank with an armed robber inside might be unwise . . .

Tankertrashnav
30th Apr 2013, 21:28
Worrals - Thanks for the confirmation on bowsers. So if the bloke who runs the service station is a bit of a misery, would that make him a bowser wowser?

;)

mini
30th Apr 2013, 22:03
One operator (who wasn't named in the press so I won't name them here) was deducting the cost of drive off petrol from their sole cash register operators' wages, despite it being impossible for said operators to leave the counter and prevent the drive offs. http://images.ibsrv.net/ibsrv/res/src:www.pprune.org/get/images/smilies/pukey.gif What were they supposed to do anyway; throw themselves in front of the vehicle? http://images.ibsrv.net/ibsrv/res/src:www.pprune.org/get/images/smilies/censored.gif


Deducting money from an employee, without proof of negligence bordering on recklessness used to be against the law around these parts... well it was 20 years ago when I was studying... probably different now :sad:

West Coast
1st May 2013, 02:35
I hope she wears something less revealing next time, especially if its gonna get caught on film.

Back Pressure
1st May 2013, 03:23
wrt those saying the attendant should have tossed the extinguisher at the car - I think she did exactly the correct thing: she immediately ran into the store to shut down the pump.

. Tossing the extinguisher may easily have caused sparks, followed by the inevitable - with her right in the middle of it
. Trying to stop the pump via the emergency cutoff (where the handle goes) would have had her drenched in fuel - not a good idea

I think she might make a good pilot with that sort of SA and calm under pressure :D

Slasher
1st May 2013, 03:53
That vid should've been accompanied with Benny Hill music...

Back Pressure
1st May 2013, 03:59
Great minds think alike Slasher (at least on some things OO)

SASless
1st May 2013, 05:15
I still laugh when I recall the story of the fellow who attempted to siphon Petrol from the fuel tank of the Motor Caravan.....but got the Black Water Holding Tank instead. The whole event left a very bad taste in his mouth I hear.:ok:

Worrals in the wilds
1st May 2013, 08:56
Fair enough 500N, I stand corrected. :}
That seems to counter Worrals' objection to prefill payment, and the only problem I can think off is that it could be a stolen or invalid credit card and a drive-off could still happen, but it does substantially reduce the risk.
It's not my objection (I think it's a good idea), more that of the servo operators. It's not enough of a problem for them yet to insist on pre-payment; apart from anything else customers aren't used to it and I believe the research suggests that customers don't like it. Unless every operator did the same thing (or it was mandated by legislation) their justifiable fear is that people will simply go to another servo that doesn't do it.

It's a bit like shoplifting; there are effective ways to combat shoplifting but they're fairly intrusive, so the posher department stores prefer to absorb the loss through their insurance (and charging honest people higher prices) than have guards on the front door searching bags annoying their posh customers.

Deducting money from an employee, without proof of negligence bordering on recklessness used to be against the law around these parts... well it was 20 years ago when I was studying... probably different now http://images.ibsrv.net/ibsrv/res/src:www.pprune.org/get/images/smilies/puppy_dog_eyes.gif
It's the same here, but enough newly arrived, foreign twenty year olds don't understand that. Unless they join a union or have some older colleagues who advise them of their rights they're usually none the wiser. Many servos are now franchised and effectively small businesses, and they're the ones perpetuating this racket.

My regular servo is a big one that's owned by Coles so it doesn't happen there; the staff roared laughing when I asked them, but later told me which operators did. The smaller operators fly under the radar and get away with all sorts of IR dodginess. These sort of operators are not going to employ people who know what their rights are when there's a ready supply of kids, foreigners and other vulnerable people to choose from. :yuk:
So if the bloke who runs the service station is a bit of a misery, would that make him a bowser wowser?
PMSL. There is a well known servo attendant at the local airport who fits that description exactly. I shall put it to him; he'll probably be quite chuffed. :E Bob the Bowser Wowser...he'll love it. :cool:

Slasher
1st May 2013, 09:16
Worrals - PMSL? :confused:

Er.... Primping My Sexy Lingerie?

Worrals in the wilds
1st May 2013, 09:26
Okay, you made me laugh. :}
It hasn't been a laughing afternoon (presently I'm partway though cursing the human race and inhaling a therapeutic bottle of wine :sad:) so thanks. :ok:

Slasher
1st May 2013, 09:31
You still haven't answered me question hon....

Posting My Shit Late perhaps?

BabyBear
1st May 2013, 09:33
Don't know where you are in the World Worrals, but your expereince of filling station operators is rather different to the UK.

With 3-4% margins on outlays of circa 50K (per load) selling fuel is not exactly profitable or risk free in the UK. It's fair to say that most are now shops that sell fuel. Without the shops they wouldn't survive. The selling of fuel is more about footfall through the shop, than it is about becoming rich through selling same.

Owners are not exactly flush with money from fuel sales and as for the legislation, losses through leakage, temp. change etc it is not exactly a business people are falling over themselves to get involved in.

There are some privately owned making money, however they tend to be those having been in the same ownership for many years without debt. Introduce the costs of purchasing and the numbers more than often don't add up.

BB

Worrals in the wilds
1st May 2013, 10:27
No, that sounds about the same? :confused:
Shops that sell fuel is also where ours are at. That's my point; that the fuel is just an incentive to get customers into the shop. Therefore theft of the fuel is largely irrelevant; it gets claimed on insurance and they still make money on the chocolates.

Pre-payment discourages impulse chocolate sales so it's better business to absorb the cost of fuel theft.

http://www.aip.com.au/pricing/pdf/Facts%20About%20the%20Australian%20Retail%20Fuels%20Market%2 0and%20Prices.pdf

There may be more independent retailers in the UK? From the above report, the Australian market is dominated by the supermarkets (47%) followed by the fuel companies (36%) and then the independents (17%). Before reading that report I thought there were more independents than that, but I was wrong. As you say, it's not a business that generates much wealth, and the big supermarkets have the added supply chain advantage with respect to chocolates.

Slash, the last two words are 'myself laughing'. I'm sure you know that already....:}

BabyBear
1st May 2013, 10:40
Therefore theft of the fuel is largely irrelevant; it gets claimed on insurance and they still make money on the chocolates.

I think any insurance policy that pays out every time there is a drive off is going to be prohibitively expensive. I think you will find the retailer picks up the cost of the drive off.

With fuel margins of 3-4% the loss of fuel is certainly not irrelevant, very much the opposite in fact.

BB

Worrals in the wilds
1st May 2013, 11:13
Then why don't they take steps against it? As mentioned, road spikes would solve the problem.
It appears to be an independently owned Caltex franchise. Mt Warren Park (City of Logan) is not a des res by any stretch :eek:, so one would assume that drive offs could be an ongoing problem.

Maybe they're struggling and can't afford it, in which case I do sympathise. If that's the case maybe Caltex should put their money where their logo is and help out, and maybe the publicity from this incident will help the operator. Caltex provide the bowsers, tanks and other forecourt infrastructure, and maybe the time has come for road spikes to be part of that, particularly in Logan.

However, in the case of other independents (and AFAIK Caltex is not one of them) who illegally bullied money out of their staff to recoup dollars lost through theft that said staff could not possibly prevent, then I have no sympathy at all. Again, there is absolutely no evidence that this operator is doing that, but it's been happening in other servos around town, even though those servos have done nothing to mitigate the theft opportunity. It is pitifully easy to steal fuel in Australia, and it's not the cash register operators' fault.

Slasher
1st May 2013, 11:25
Worrals - ok got it now! :)

BabyBear
1st May 2013, 11:30
Most servos are run using the bare minimum of low paid staff (often foreign) who are routinely threatened by knife and gun toting maniacs as part of their job description, when they're not dodging people who try to run them over. None of the major opeators have made more than a token effort to protect their staff, and consequently I have little sympathy for them.

Really, is Aus. that bad?


Very little sympathy; IMO the service station industry perpetuates these thefts and therefore has no right to whine about them. This is a problem they could fix, but they won't.

So it's the business owners fault, really? Is that not like saying the way a woman dresses determines the level of her responsibility if assaulted?

It is pitifully easy to steal fuel in Australia, and it's not the cash register operators' fault.

Actually, it often is the cash operators fault.

BB

Worrals in the wilds
1st May 2013, 12:45
Really, is Aus. that bad?Yep, it is. Night shift in a servo isn't much fun, particularly in Logan, Cleveland or Ipswich.
So it's the business owners fault, really? Is that not like saying the way a woman dresses determines the level of her responsibility if assaulted? No. It's like suggesting that staggering drunk around Surfers Paradise with a wallet full of cash makes a person deserving of a robbery, no matter what their gender is or what they're wearing. Say a person does just that and gets robbed, it doesn't make the robber's actions right, any more than driving off without paying for fuel is right. It's theft and deserves punishment.

However, as a person who lives in the aforesaid tourists' haven would I suggest that staggering around drunk with a wallet full of cash is smart? Of course not. If you do so you're a walking ATM; bang a PIN number on your head and the cash will spew out. Right? No. Reality? Yep. Likewise servos with no barriers to prevent drive-offs.

If a business offers an easy way to rob it then crims will take the opportunity.
Actually, it often is the cash operators fault.You're talking about thieving from the till? Different kettle of fish, call the coppers. These days there'd be very few city servos without CCTV over their cash registers, so if there's footage of little fingers in the till then that's a diffferent story from ferals driving off without paying for fuel. If said ferals have an agreement with the operator then game on; take it to the coppers.

My concern is when there are drive offs with no collusion from the operator that the operator could not reasonably prevent. In that instance neither I nor the law sees why they should pay, particularly when the only barrier to them driving off is some misplaced belief in Aussie decency and an aversion to paying for mitigation methods.

BabyBear
1st May 2013, 12:54
If a business offers an easy way to rob it then crims will take the opportunity. My take on your statement that you have little sympathy was that they deserved it.

It intrigues me that because the said business owners haven't spent 10s of thousands in preventative measures they are not deserving of sympathy. To my thinking that is cart before horse.

A sign of the times, I guess?

BB

Worrals in the wilds
1st May 2013, 13:04
Probably.
Wouldn't it be nice if everyone was nice.

My experience is coloured by working in theft prevention (many years ago) for a big retailer. We had some great strategies for combating theft, starting with removing the designer handbags from the stand at the front door, from which enterprising miscreants would grab them and run off into the inner-city crowd.

'How about putting the $300 handbags inside the store where we can watch them'? we naively asked.
'Then the passers by won't see them' was the response.
'The passers by are grabbing them and running off without paying' was our counter-argument.
'No worries, we get that off insurance' was the answer. :bored:

This left me with a bad attitude towards loss prevention that may colour my POV. :}

It probably is putting the cart before the horse, so what's your solution? Agreeing that theft is bad? No argument from here. I don't think people should drive off without paying for fuel any more than they should grab a handbag and run off with it. It's wrong and should be punished.

However, how do you prevent that? What's your solution?

Capetonian
1st May 2013, 13:20
This was a problem we sometimes encountered when a friend and I ran a restaurant. We had about one incident of bilking a week. That's apart from those who used to try to find excuses not to pay because something wasn't to their liking. We could tell those with genuine grievances from the chancers, and we would tell the latter to take a hike and not come back.

Usually it was a group of 3 or 4 young men who would order expensive meals and a fair amount to drink and then just before finishing desserts they would run out and scatter in different directions. A warning sign was that they would sometimes ask for a table by the door. One such group was shown to a table furthest from the door and said they couldn't sit there as one of them was 'claustrophobic'.

The Darwin award went to a couple who had booked using false names but a real phone number and then at the end of the meal sneaked out without paying when none of the staff were watching. They hadn't 'forgotten' to pay, they had a reputation in town for dishonesty and had tried to scam a travel company I worked for. For them, an unfortunate coincidence that I knew who they were and was able to have them charged with bilking.

There was very little we could do about it, you can't ask people to pay in advance or leave a credit card. We got to the stage where we sometimes told people of whom we were suspicious that we were fully booked.

I don't suppose we lost much in relation to our turnover but I always felt annoyed that people can stoop so low when they are trusted.

BabyBear
1st May 2013, 13:37
I don't suppose we lost much in relation to our turnover but I always felt annoyed that people can stoop so low when they are trusted.

Maybe so, but the impact on the bottom line is where it tells.

Worrals, the political will does not exist to stop it. For sure though the responsibility should bot lie solely with the business owners.

BB

david1300
14th May 2013, 04:56
A 20-YEAR-old Beenleigh man has been remanded in custody to reappear in court on June 25 following charges arising from an alleged attempted petrol drive-off in Logan on April 23.
The man appeared in Richlands Magistrates Court on Tuesday facing 22 charges, among them dangerous operation of a motor vehicle and wilful damage.
Magistrate Andrew Cridlands remanded him in custody until June 23. He will reappear at Richlands Magistrates court on June 25 when he will be required to enter a plea relating to the charges.
Surveillance footage of the incident at Mt Warren Park Caltex went viral, showing the man's teenage sister filling the car up with petrol when a console operator approached the vehicle, checking its registration plates.
The driver attempted to speed away but his sister was thrown into the air.
She landed heavily before running several metres to the car and leaving petrol gushing from the broken bowser.

Beenleigh man, 20, charged over alleged petrol drive-off in Logan that saw woman thrown into the air | News, events and sport for Logan | The Courier-Mail (http://www.couriermail.com.au/questnews/logan/beenleigh-man-20-charged-over-alleged-petrol-drive-off-in-logan-23-that-saw-woman-thrown-into-the-air/story-fn8m0u8i-1226641995120)

Fliegenmong
14th May 2013, 10:45
About once a fortnight I have to travel out to Springfield Lakes / Brookwater area.....Lovely what they are trying to do out there, and I even have a friend who lives out there!!, and the community they're trying to build etc etc, all really lovely.....but would you live out there, if you're originally from the SEQ area??, hell no!!....:eek:way too close to 'Ippy', Redbank Plains, Inala etc. :yuk:

My fortnightly travels then take me along the Ipswich motorway, dissecting such suburbs as Gailes Wacol Richlands Inala Durack, the places always on the news...for all the wrong reasons, whilst it's no Jo'Berg, not by a long way I'd imagine, I never get off the motorway for fear of what lies beyond....but in a snarl of traffic allow myself to peer into the streets visible from the motorway, with the same macabre way people 'rubber neck' a traffic accident. :eek::\ I've never had cause to head out that way before, and it is an eye opener!

(Apologies to all Non SEQ PPruners, most likely these areas are unknown to you ;))

flynverted
14th May 2013, 10:56
Ipswich motorway, dissecting such suburbs as Gailes Wacol Richlands Inala Durack You have bigger nards than me if you drive that stretch of road. :ok:I'll fly to where I need to go before before I drive the Ipswich motorway.