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sitigeltfel
26th Apr 2013, 10:55
How can a weapon be classed as de-activated when it can be so readily re-activated?

A man in his twenties buys a Kalachnikov over the internet, somehow has it restored to working order, manages to get hold of ammunition, then goes on the rampage killing three people and wounding another.

Istres | Fusillade d'Istres : le tueur avait acheté sa Kalachnikov sur internet | La Provence (http://www.laprovence.com/article/actualites/2328239/fusillade-distres-le-tueur-avait-achete-sa-kalachnikov-sur-internet.html)

Three shot dead in Istres kalashnikov shootings - The Connexion (http://www.connexionfrance.com/istres-shootings-kalashnikov-random-attack-gunman-14671-view-article.html)

I suppose there must be a market among collectors for such items, but surely there must be a way to put them beyond use?

G-CPTN
26th Apr 2013, 11:01
Didn't the method used to be firmly ramming a metal plug into the barrel, thereby damaging the bore as well as blocking its use?

They don't like it uppem!

tony draper
26th Apr 2013, 11:15
I think the rules in this country re deactivated weapons for display was that tooled steel rods should be welded along the centers of fire IE Barrel chambers and such in such a manner that they are impossible to remove withour wrecking,the weapon, tiz not just a case of removing firing pins and plugging the thoat of the barrel.
:)

chevvron
26th Apr 2013, 11:28
The Enfield Mk 4 .303 cal rifles issued to my ATC units had half inch diameter holes drilled through the barrels just forward of the chamber. I suppose they might have been pluggable but the plugs would probably blow out if you tried to fire it with a standard round and in any case, if you hadn't fired one before, you'd probably feel like you'd blown your shoulder off!

alisoncc
26th Apr 2013, 11:41
The Enfield Mk 4 .303 cal rifles issued to my ATC unitsDid your lot get the pigsticker bayonets to go with?. Ours did. The guns may have been deactivated, but with a bayonet mounted it was still a formidiable weapon for a twelve year old to be waving about. No elf and sefty then.


.

500N
26th Apr 2013, 11:42
If all that is done is the barrel has had a rod welded in it
or holes drilled in it, then all that is needed is to rebarrel
the rifle and you are good to go.

You need to deactivate the firing mechanism more than
anything.

tony draper
26th Apr 2013, 11:46
When we were urchins my gang found half a dozen Martini Henry Rifles stacked beside the dustbin outside the church hall presumably for the Bin Men to take away,they had the barrels sawn halfway through just forward of the breech and were fecked firingwise,we of course liberated same and were the best armed side in games of Japs and Americans round the back lanes for years.
The Church must have been used as a drill hall sometime in the dim distant time of Empire.:rolleyes:

rgbrock1
26th Apr 2013, 12:04
500N wrote:

You need to deactivate the firing mechanism more than
anything.

How do you permanently deactivate the firing mechanism short of destroying it? No matter what one does to a weapon the part(s) that have been rendered inoperable can be replaced. Rendering said weapon operable, no?

500N
26th Apr 2013, 12:10
Yes, if you take it to the nth degree.

Depends on the weapon more than anything but you
can screw around with the internals, dab of weld here
and there to weld it shut. If you have to replace
everything, you might as well get a new one.

rgbrock1
26th Apr 2013, 12:12
500N:

Short of welding I see no other method of deactivating a weapon. I'm sure, 500N, you've done your share of field-stripping a weapon. Every part stripped from that weapon is replaceable. Yeah, you could buy a new one but what fun is that!!!!

cockney steve
26th Apr 2013, 12:14
It's a load of tosh to suggest that damaging the firing mechanism, or barrel, is an effective, permanent deactivation.


A fellow who owned a garage and MOT bay with a comprehensive machine-shop, locally, went down for building his own mini-arsenal from scratch.

It's simple engineering, high quality metal-stocks are readily obtainable and very precise machines are very affordable. The Kalashnikov is,apparently, an exercise in crude, basic, rough-and ready,low-cost basics

Tha man concerned, designed and built his own guns purely as an engineering-challenge. they were top-quality but unfortunately he didn't bother with a Firearms Certificate, Government Proof-Testing and the like.

Remember, many small bits were made by a man with a hacksaw,file, vice and drill, A machine that could automatically drill and rifle a barrel to a thousandth of an inch accuracy was pure fantasy to 19th century gunsmiths.
What.s surprising, is that there are not more DIY firearms on the streets...there again, you can get a gun and ammo for under a hundred quid in Manchester, (purportedly) so why bother to scratch-build or re-activate.

OFSO
26th Apr 2013, 12:14
Both of Mr OFSO's firing pins have been disabled. This is the one I can show in public.

http://i656.photobucket.com/albums/uu287/ROBIN_100/MrOFSOsFiringPin_zps143826e4.jpg

tony draper
26th Apr 2013, 12:15
Sorry my post should have read half a dozed Martini Henry Rifles,rectified same,I remember we were annoyed at the time that they hadn't thrown the Bayonnets out as well.
:)

500N
26th Apr 2013, 12:17
RGB

If you remove the firing pin, weld the hole shut, then weld the bolt
FROM THE BOTTOM to the receiver (so the weld can't be seen),
then drill holes in the receiver / chamber / barrel, then you might
as well get a new gun.

But looking at a gun like that it doesn't look buggered but it is
so still looks OK to hang on the wall.

AlpineSkier
26th Apr 2013, 12:20
It's simple engineering, high quality metal-stocks are readily obtainable and very precise machines are very affordable.

Balls. Gun-drilling a blank in steel suitable to be a barrel to required tolerances would be hugely difficult and the machinery to do it so specialised as to be very difficult to obtain even without mentioning the cost.

Then cutting the lands in the bore............................................

500N
26th Apr 2013, 12:27
"Remember, many small bits were made by a man with a hacksaw,file, vice and drill, A machine that could automatically drill and rifle a barrel to a thousandth of an inch accuracy was pure fantasy to 19th century gunsmiths."

Maybe not 1000'th degree accuracy but most got the bore dimensions correct.

The high end gun smiths were amazing with a file, getting a "smoke" fit
of barrels to action.

Erwin Schroedinger
26th Apr 2013, 12:28
I guess if you're only looking to wipe out a few innocent bystanders, something like a Bic biro will suffice as a makeshift barrel.

500N
26th Apr 2013, 12:29
Re barrels, agree.

The barrels are the hardest thing about "home made" guns.
Even the info on the web states this.

Either way, if you stuff up the firing mechanism, receiver and
barrel, you might as well get a new gun.

rgbrock1
26th Apr 2013, 12:36
500N:

You keep saying/writing gun. You naughty lad. Didn't your drill instructors teach you:

This is a weapon (insert picture of preferred automatic rifle)
This is a gun (insert picture of you holding your pecker)
This is for killing (weapon)
This is for fun (pecker)

Therefore, in days of yore when one made the mistake of calling ones weapon a gun, you had to repeat the above until the drill sergeant got tired and while jumping up and down on one foot holding your dick in one hand and your rifle in the other.

Get hoppin' 500N!!!

500N
26th Apr 2013, 12:39
RGB

It's because in civvy street we call them guns because the effing antis
jump all over the word Weapon.

If it is a military firearm I normally use Weapon but in this case,
my bad.

I have had to repeat that a few times and made a few soldiers do it as well.


I thought peckers were now WMD because they cause 21 years
of hardship to those who are not careful with them :O

onetrack
26th Apr 2013, 12:43
I typed "how hard is it to make a gun barrel from scratch" - and Google assured me with autocomplete, that 2,000,000,000 people before me, had already asked the question. :(

No doubt I'll have the Police chopper hovering over my house tonight, and my internet connection will have mysterious short halts in connection, whilst I'm online. :(

However, if all the 'Net info is as good as this following lot, then I reckon "Nathaniel Miller" must be an FBI plant, intent on ensuring that all homebuilt gun-manufacturers blow themselves apart with the first trigger pull. :(

I do like the part about, "Building your own gun can be a rewarding and therapeutic pastime." Yep, blowing away those annoying loud neighbours with the constantly barking dog, would be very rewarding. :) :D

How to Make a Gun Barrel | eHow.com (http://www.ehow.com/how_4605953_gun-barrel.html#ixzz2RZYx3uud)

rgbrock1
26th Apr 2013, 12:49
500N wrote:

I thought peckers were now WMD because they cause 21 years
of hardship to those who are not careful with them http://images.ibsrv.net/ibsrv/res/src:www.pprune.org/get/images/smilies/embarass.gif

You think the hardship stops after 21 years? Hell no. It dissipates somewhat but it never stops!!!!

500N
26th Apr 2013, 12:52
That's why I never had kids :O

Although having a GF with 3 kids is interesting :ugh::ugh::ugh:

rgbrock1
26th Apr 2013, 12:56
Ah 500N: Your gf's kids are YOURS TOO, by proxy. I'm sure I didn't need to tell you that though!!!!

Alloa Akbar
26th Apr 2013, 13:14
I think chaps that the "How easy is it.." question can be better defined as "How easy is it to restore a weapon to some sort of functioning order"

The firing mechanism can be replaced / fixed without attracting too much suspicion when getting the bits. As for the barrel, sure precision gun drilling is quite an art, but the types of people who want a weapon "Off grid" are hardly sniper marksmen, more like your average gang member hoodlum, ergo, any kind of gun drilling will do.. Net result is a weapon that will fire, and if the barrel is badly drilled the rounds will tumble.. now that makes a frickin' mess!

The coppers at the Loughton firing range used to have a reactivated Uzi down there, which I have seen in action on the range.. scary :eek:

rgbrock1
26th Apr 2013, 13:17
Alloa:

How easy is it to restore a weapon to some sort of functioning order? Depending on ones skills I would say relatively easy.

MagnusP
26th Apr 2013, 13:19
I thought peckers were now WMD

Wants Masturbated Daily?

My WMD was deactivated years ago and now only fires blanks.

Milo Minderbinder
26th Apr 2013, 13:41
even if you weld up the barrel with a rod its still possible to drill it out.

These guys were jailed ten years ago for doing just that (and for remanufacturing other parts including firing mechanisms)
Note where the guns ended up - they were sold to the local caravan dwellers

BBC NEWS | UK | England | Lancashire | Pair's hobby became deadly crime (http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/lancashire/4026665.stm)

blue up
26th Apr 2013, 15:04
My No1, Mk3* Lee Enfield was constrained to fire single shots by adding a plate to the magazine well and holding it in place with 6 small dabs of weld. Bored out to .410 Shotgun it was then re-proofed. All perfectly normal for the UK.

The guy next door bought a recent-ish No4 deactivated rifle where the entire barrel was slit from the chamber to just short of the noisy end. The bolt was chamfered off so it looked normal when closed and the firing pin channel was welded up. No licence required.

Strange thing is that it LOOKS as if the de-ac could be re-activated with a replacement barrel and bolt. Plenty of those going spare in Afghanistan after a 'certain foreign intelligence agency' sent so many there back in the 1980's.

If you really want to have a bit of entertainment you can buy STENs in the US where the receiver has been cut away completely but the components are still left. Effectively you have a STEN kit and need only to fabricate a receiver (32mm ID tube?) and weld the bits back on.

rgbrock1
26th Apr 2013, 15:14
blue up:

Also, it isn't all too difficult to take a Bushmaster AR-15 semiautomatic rifle and turning it into a fully automatic one.
Not difficult at all.

dazdaz1
26th Apr 2013, 16:09
Dear boys........The answer is a 3D printer, print what you want! I'm knocking out (via software) a full size Russian Sub. Although It might take about three years the printer is going 24/7

Tankertrashnav
26th Apr 2013, 16:22
My son has a deactivated Bren. When he bought it I was looking forward to seeing if I could still strip it blindfold, as learned as a young rockape, but I was disappointed to discover that part of the deactivation process (in the UK at least) is welding the barrel, gas plug etc so that apart from removing and replacing the mag, no stripping can be done.

RGB - a Bren is a gun (Light Machine Gun), as is a shotgun, but I agree that a rifle should never be so described.