PDA

View Full Version : Consciousness After Death


rgbrock1
25th Apr 2013, 12:07
Last night I was reading the results of a study, undertaken by a dozen or so physicians and published in the New England Journal of Medicine, in which these same physicians believe that a human's consciousness continues for a few hours after death.
What they saw in their study, on the cellular level, was that although the brain and heart stopped functioning cellular activity continued on for a few hours after clinical death. This would include brain cell activity.

As part of the study they also looked at people who were considered clinically dead i.e., no brain or heart activity (flatliners) but who were resuscitated and "brought back from death". In every single one of these cases the subject was able to relate to his/her environment whilst dead. Even as far as comprehending conversations taking place around them.

It was very interesting reading and I came away from it kind of "gob smacked" thinking: maybe consciousness does indeed remain for a short while after death. Or maybe even longer than that. IF that is indeed the case: what a frightening thought!

grumbles69
25th Apr 2013, 12:16
Guess we will never know until its our time!:eek:

500N
25th Apr 2013, 12:29
rgb

I don't think it is that far fetched.

Oxygen is still in the cells / blood.
The rate of use would be very very low
once the heart / brain stopped.

Re cell activity, cutting things up, it's interesting watching
various bits and pieces of bodies react even though dead.

Guess I'll find out one day :O

The SSK
25th Apr 2013, 12:32
Surely all this means is that the definition of 'clinical death' isn't quite right.

OFSO
25th Apr 2013, 12:39
Read the same study. Believe it because of what was written during the French Revolution. Too gruesome to think about.

rgbrock1
25th Apr 2013, 12:44
OFSO:

What was written during the French revolution? No comprende'.

The SSK:

I thought the same: perhaps "clinical death" needs to be redefined. The problem is: how? Or, to what?

The SSK
25th Apr 2013, 12:47
Something to do with severed heads swearing at the executioner?

rgbrock1
25th Apr 2013, 12:50
Severed heads swearing at the executioner? Rather ghastly that is. Never heard that one. I must get out more often I suppose.

TWT
25th Apr 2013, 12:56
How can you talk with no air from your lungs in the case of a severed head ?

rgbrock1
25th Apr 2013, 13:03
TWT:

I suppose it's possible. My mother-in-law, for example, talks* yet her brain is not connected to her tongue. And she never comes up for a breath of air so I suppose lungs aren't always necessary.



*she doesn't talk in the normal sense. she rambles. on and on and on and on........

.... until you want to take out a pistol and shoot yourself.

TWT
25th Apr 2013, 13:04
I have a work colleague like that.He has a 100% transmit duty cycle and is not fitted with a receive function at all.

Dak Man
25th Apr 2013, 13:06
Some before death would be a welcome change.....

A A Gruntpuddock
25th Apr 2013, 13:09
"I have a work colleague like that."

Had one like that as well! Very nice guy but talked ALL the time without giving you a chance to reply.

Mates called him 'Budgie' because he sat at your shoulder cheeping away.

Apologies for thread drift.

rgbrock1
25th Apr 2013, 13:10
I'm lucky in that MiL lives far enough away where she isn't around all too much. However, when she does phone the Mrs. I go in the other room and crank the stereo until my ears bleed and my brain hemorrhages.

This is much more preferable to the constant staccato barrage coming out of the phone. Which is audible even in Nome, Alaska. (Approx. 5,000 miles from us.)

I've told the Mrs., who for some reason doesn't find the humor in it, that even 125 years after her mother is gone, her jaws will still be japping in her grave.

Erwin Schroedinger
25th Apr 2013, 13:11
Recall a tale (true?) of heads in the guillotine basket; one biting another.


Why don't we try it out on our Government - get them to do something useful for a change.



.

Dak Man
25th Apr 2013, 13:15
In the mid 90's I had the unfortunate experience of ending up in a coma for about 10 days as a result of cerebral malaria (I was, ahem, "working" in Angola - don't ask).

Anyhoo, by all acounts I was pretty much given up for dead, I have the strangest vivid recollection, I was lookig at myself in bed but I was the electric fan on the bedside table - well fekin weird I can tell you.

Who knows? drug induced, out of body, some deeper level of consciousness, I have no clue, it fealt real but WTF is reality?

arcniz
25th Apr 2013, 13:17
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/3/3f/Ars.moriendi.pride.a.jpg/450px-Ars.moriendi.pride.a.jpg

Consciousness After Death

One wouldn't want to take any of the fun out of someone's expectations for Death, but the process of Consciousness is often difficult to achieve among the living, and surely much more so among the dead.

Part of the Q hinges on what one wants to define as consciousness. Muscle reflexes, for example, are mostly autonomic and are demonstrably functional in odd cases where the subject is already dead for most purposes but parts and pieces are still able to move a bit in their normal way. Effects of this can be disconcerting, at a minimum, but they don't last long.

For a bit of bedtime reading, look up APOPTOSIS for some clarity in these matters.

Higher-level actions that involve multiple systems in interdependent ways are the ones that we most treasure and likely most quickly lose, because they require system-level interaction with circulatory, respiratory, nerve signalling, endocrine chemical balancing, etcetera. Non-operation of any required system likely will bolix the result of the higher-level processes to the point of extreme dysfunction - which progressively degrades toward total non-function.

Consciousness and mind, whatever those are, might well linger on for some while in a semi-sense,but the means for their input and output processes fade quickly for lack of nourishment by oxygen, nutrients, etc. Hence expressions such as "Better Red than Dead", eh?

A post-apocalyptic conversation regarding fussball might be slightly more possible than one about recent modifications to EU VAT policy, FWIW.

The SSK
25th Apr 2013, 13:29
A post-apocalyptic conversation regarding fussball might be slightly more possible than one about recent modifications to EU VAT policy

One way to render everybody around brain-dead

The essential piece of EU VAT legislation since 1 January 2007 has been Directive 2006/112/EC. That 'VAT Directive' is effectively a recast of the Sixth VAT Directive of 1977 as amended over the years. The recast brings together various provisions in a single piece of legislation. Directive 2006/112/EC in turn was amended several times in the last few years and a consolidated version without legally binding value was published in January 2010 in the EU Official Journal.

Although some might say the same about the fussball

hellsbrink
25th Apr 2013, 14:27
I'm lucky in that MiL lives far enough away where she isn't around all too much.

Mine lives just a few k's away, but we never see her because we don't talk to her.

But I don't think she would talk too much, she's too busy casting spells.......


But who knows what is going on with this "not quite dead yet" concept, something that has also had us "believing" that dying is not "final" as it is because our soul lives on forever, because we do know that things don't just "stop" at the point of what we call death. But somehow I don't think "cellular activity" counts as your "conciousness", or "being aware", going on after your brain stops working unless it means you're still posting status updates on your MyGoogleSpaceGroup wall.

rgbrock1
25th Apr 2013, 14:38
hellsbrink:

I also do not believe cellular activity constitutes consciousness. However, cellular activity in the brain - perhaps for a short while after death - may continue which, in turn, contributes to some form of consciousness. (Self-awareness perhaps?)

hellsbrink
25th Apr 2013, 14:46
But individual cells do not constitute "memory" or, surely, "consciousness" as that needs the cells to "talk" to each other. So when electrical activity between nerve cells stops then surely conciousness ceases as there is no "talking" between cells. Now, sure, we all know that cells "live" after we call it "death", so there will be activity of all kinds for a short period until oxygen and/or nutrients runs out. But when the electrics fail, they are nothing but cells, and I don't remember seeing any real evidence of nerve cells sending messages to each other without electricity flowing through the cell "sending".........

The SSK
25th Apr 2013, 14:50
‘Shutting down all systems.
Respiration – check
Circulation – check
Consciousness – wonder if there’s time for one more post on the Hamsterwheel’

sisemen
25th Apr 2013, 15:45
In hypothermia the body starts to shut down circulation to protect the very last part that it needs to protect and that is the brain. Perhaps the brain does the same thing and shuts down sequentially much the same as a computer does. With each sequence the thoughts and storage is moved to a deeper level until finally the light goes out.

Now, given time is a surreal construct and can be made to expand or contract as befits any given situation ("time stood still", "it was all over in a flash") then perhaps that shutdown sequence while only taking seconds to the outsider may in fact take an eternity for the sufferer. Hence eternal life etc etc.


TCpsGGaciFo

Fareastdriver
25th Apr 2013, 16:27
Probably depends on how many debts you are writing off.

G-CPTN
25th Apr 2013, 16:29
I expect it depends on precisely how the 'death' occurs (or is certified).

I believe that it is possible to cool the human body such that no heart or lung activity remains yet with careful management a full recovery is possible.

There are also accounts of corpses coming back to life long after they have been declared dead (mortuary revivals).

As far as the brain recalling the experience is concerned, I experience vivid dreams (induced by medication) where the experience is indiscernible from real life - until I wake up and realise that I must have been dreaming.

Of course, there is also the postulation that all life is but a chemical reaction in a Petri dish. One has to wonder who is managing the experiment?

tony draper
25th Apr 2013, 16:36
Your brain being deprived of oxygen can turn you into a piece of vegetation pretty swiftly,so if you do come back you will probably have forgotten how to talk so would be unable to tell what wonders you beheld anyway.:uhoh:

G-CPTN
25th Apr 2013, 16:39
It seems that the low temperature can ameliorate the lack of oxygen.

ehwatezedoing
25th Apr 2013, 16:39
Read the same study. Believe it because of what was written during the French Revolution. Too gruesome to think about.
I was thinking the same.

A quick Google about it and here is one link amount many others.
frustrating search for the truth about decapitation (http://thechirurgeonsapprentice.com/2012/08/13/losing-ones-head-a-frustrating-search-for-the-truth-about-decapitation/)

Now thinking that the tale was a conglomeration of several stories relating to decapitation and experimentation, I was about to give up the search. I had already reached the end of the 19th century. Experiments involving decapitation couldn’t possibly have gone into the 20th century, right?

Wrong.

That was when I stumbled across the name of Dr Gabriel Beaurieux. In 1905, he arranged to attend the execution of the murderer, Henri Languille. Shortly after the blade severed Languille’s head, Beaurieux noted a frightening observation:
[T]he eyelids and lips of the guillotined man worked in irregularly rhythmic contractions for about five or six seconds. [After several seconds], the spasmodic movements ceased…It was then that I called in a strong, sharp voice: “Languille!” I saw the eyelids slowly lift up, without any spasmodic contractions – I insist advisedly on this peculiarity – but with an even movement, quite distinct and normal, such as happens in everyday life, with people awakened or torn from their thoughts.

:eek:

Rossian
25th Apr 2013, 16:45
.....when our lad had a heart attack at age 25, he said afterwards that he didn't see "lights in tunnels or angels or God" but that he was VERY aware that he was facing a choice - "I could either live or die but that the choice was mine and as there were things I wanted to do (marry have a family) so I chose to live"; but it took a lot of defibrillation hits to get him going again and he crashed twice more en route from A&E to the ICU and was being resusitated as the trolley was being pushed along. At what stage in the process did he have his "choice" moment?? He doesn't know.

Yes, he did marry and become a father of twins. But he's a different man now than the one that was taken into A&E that dreadful night.

The Ancient Mariner

Hobo
25th Apr 2013, 16:47
...but WTF is reality?

My dear chap, Pprune is reality.

rgbrock1
25th Apr 2013, 16:52
Rossian wrote:

I could either live or die but that the choice was mine and as there were things I wanted to do (marry have a family) so I chose to live

That is called Will. The Will to live.

The German philosopher Friedrich Nietzsche wrote a book which he named: "The Will To Power". Unfortunately the underlying concepts in that book are either misunderstood by many or manipulated by people such as Adolf Hitler.

However, looked at in the appropriate frame of reference, The Will To Power shows that if ones' Will is used as the main driving force in one life, then anything is possible.

Your "lad" is proof of that.

sled dog
25th Apr 2013, 17:42
I am sure the Saudis could give some details ref decapitation............

Fareastdriver
25th Apr 2013, 17:47
Stick a severed hand into your pocket and see how much money it brings out.

Stan Woolley
25th Apr 2013, 18:06
Since suffering a stroke two years ago and losing my license i have a lot of spare time on my hands !
My main and growing interest in the past year has been this subject , I have done loads of reading and watching Videos on things that relate to it. It is not a matter of ' born again ' or religeon in general but I have come to believe that consciousness is what it's all about and that we should expect to ' live' on after death. ( Until we come back for another go!)

There are a growing number of scientists ( mainly young ?) becoming interested in this. There are also die hard sceptics and atheists who are opposed to any ideas of consciousness surviving death, but from what I see they are slowly but surely losing the battle.

Something clicked in me when I was reading about Quantum Physics and how strange it was? It seemed consciousness was somehow mixed up in it all.

It is pretty basic and I'm sure some people will tear shreds but this video gives some idea of what got me interested : Dr Quantum Double Split Experiment on You Tube.

Check out some Einstein quotes if my damaged brain isn't impressive enough ?:p

Miserlou
25th Apr 2013, 22:49
Assessing the 'point of death' is one of the reasons for my objection to capital punishment. I believe the BBC did a very good documentary on the subject.

Any chance of the link to the study?

onetrack
26th Apr 2013, 04:34
Where's blokes like Pete Backus when you need them? (Pete Backus - an Inventive Genius) ....

"A MOST UNUSUAL INVENTION:

Mr. Backus invented a device known as the, "Electric and Vacuum Testing Machine," to detect if a person is really dead.

Attention has been drawn to the subject of premature burial, and some of the leading physicians have written articles, cautioning to prevent this unspeakable horror.

What would you not give, to know for certain that those whom you have laid to rest, are really dead?

A model of this device may be seen at the Serrels undertaking establishment on East Third Street. It consists of an airtight receptacle, forming, so to speak, a false grave, which is heated by electricity.
When the body (which has been given up or dead) has been placed within the receptacle, the air is slowly pumped out until the pressure of about 6 pounds has been reached.
Then the electric current is turned on and the receptacle heated to the normal body temperature.

It has a glass window in the lid, through which the features of the person can be plainly seen, and an electric spotlight casts its reflection on the face, so that any change can be readily detected.
If then the person shows any signs of life, the air is allowed to again slowly enter the receptacle, and medical aid can be applied.

This machine was placed on exhibition in Cleveland in the year 1909, and created a great deal of comments, and many expressed favorable opinions concerning it.

There is little question about its being a practical machine, and the only thing which has kept it from being placed in actual service, is the lack of financing.

Mr. Backus says he has succeeded in completing inventions for the saving of lives that will eclipse any devices yet produced."

One wonders what a "deceased" persons response would be, to awake, and find himself/herself in a warm enclosure, with a large spotlight shining in his/her face?? Probably enough shock, to ensure they did properly decease!

Krystal n chips
26th Apr 2013, 05:53
" Your brain being deprived of oxygen can turn you into a piece of vegetation pretty swiftly,so if you do come back you will probably have forgotten how to talk so would be unable to tell what wonders you beheld anyway"

There are several examples on here of those who consistently support this theory within their posts and idealogical thoughts. The right lobe seems to be particulary active in this respect.

I am sure I read that a French professor did actually carry out some research with those making a brief, but passionate, acquaintance with Madame La G. There was an account of the head still, allegedly, "talking" for several minutes after being removed as it were.

On the other hand, taliking heads are hardly unique and can be seen on most evenings offering us their "expert opinion". So, no change there then.

Loose rivets
26th Apr 2013, 06:36
Remember just who Roger Penrose is before you poo-poo these ideas. I'm fairly sure he was on Hawking's PhD panel.

This really did pique my interest since twice in my book I infer the mind modulates and is contained in the fabric of the Universe, the brain being more like a control center for the transmissions. Since it can't be electromagnetic, quantum gravity will do very nicely.

They have said, in the event of the patient recovering, the force, for want of a better name, flows back into those tubules, and one becomes sentient/sapient again.


Can quantum physics explain the bizarre experiences of patients brought back from the brink of death? | Mail Online (http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-2225190/Can-quantum-physics-explain-bizarre-experiences-patients-brought-brink-death.html)

probes
26th Apr 2013, 06:57
WTF is reality?
Exactly. Would someone explain us? (just a second opinion, Hobo:E) Especially with the virtual reality that becomes more real for people sometimes, meaning the brain can be tricked about it.

Capetonian
26th Apr 2013, 07:04
I suppose it's possible. My mother-in-law, for example, talks* yet her brain is not connected to her tongue. And she never comes up for a breath of air so I suppose lungs aren't always necessary.

Hadn't realised we were so closely related, RGB!

When she 'phones I put the 'phone on the table, mute it, and 20 minutes later I unmute it and she's still yammering away to herself.

P6 Driver
26th Apr 2013, 08:49
Recall a tale (true?) of heads in the guillotine basket; one biting another.

Were they Premiership footballers?

Fareastdriver
26th Apr 2013, 10:38
I used to buy a chicken in a Chinese market for 5 yuan (50p) and it would furiously peck my legs as I took it to the chap who was going to kill, gut and pluck it. A No 1 knife, a big cleaver, would remove it's head and then it would be pushed into a big biscuit tin where the remainder would thrash about for a couple of minutes.
Gutting and plucking took another minute and he would charge me 1 yuan and being a foreigner I would make his day him by letting him keep the feet.

They were only scrawny racing chickens. OK for soups and Chinese dishes but useless as a roast.

MadsDad
26th Apr 2013, 11:01
Heard the tale of the two mortal enemies who ended up with their heads in the basket apparently trying to chew lumps out of each other.

Another guillotine tale was that when the famous chemist and natural philosopher, Lavoisier, was to be executed he arranged that his servant would grab his head and that he would keep blinking, once per second, for as long as he could. The story said he was observed to have blinked 38 times after his head was chopped off (plus, I suppose, being hit by the blade may have caused him to blink a bit then). There doesn't seem to be any definitive prrof of this tale either way though.

OFSO
26th Apr 2013, 12:04
Consciousness After Death - of more practical use to those of us living in the EU Member States and observing the politicians who are supposed to be running the show: is there Consciousness BEFORE death ? From what I can see, the answer is no.

Bring back Madame Guilliotine !

rgbrock1
26th Apr 2013, 12:09
Capetonian wrote:

Hadn't realised we were so closely related, RGB!

When she 'phones I put the 'phone on the table, mute it, and 20 minutes later I unmute it and she's still yammering away to herself.

20 minutes? I've put the phone down, muted it and come back 2 weeks later and she's still yammering away on the phone.

Proof that there is life after ones' brain has been certified as dead.

Tone
26th Apr 2013, 12:52
From rgbrock1's original post;

"As part of the study they also looked at people who were considered clinically dead i.e., no brain or heart activity (flatliners) but who were resuscitated and "brought back from death"

Been there, done that, out of the world for 10 minutes.

"In every single one of these cases the subject was able to relate to his/her environment whilst dead. Even as far as comprehending conversations taking place around them"

Total bollocks (not to put too fine a point on it)

rgbrock1
26th Apr 2013, 12:55
Tone:

Although not clinically dead at the time, my departed sister was in a coma for weeks. When she finally came out of it she was able to relate to us, her family, just about every conversation we had in her presence.

Cacophonix
26th Apr 2013, 13:09
I suppose the corollary of this subject is...

"Consciousness before death"...

In some ways that is just as interesting as the question "what is consciousness"?

Caco

rgbrock1
26th Apr 2013, 13:15
Could we define consciousness as awareness? Self-awareness, awareness of ones environment, etc.

G-CPTN
26th Apr 2013, 13:23
Could we define consciousness as awareness? Self-awareness, awareness of ones environment, etc. How would you resolve the question of the consciousness of a new-born baby?

Is it a simplification to suggest that consciousness begins with the first breath of air?

What about before birth?
The foetus has had a heartbeat and blood-circulation long before it was born.

Tone
26th Apr 2013, 13:28
I'm not medically qualified but I think there may a difference between being described as clinically dead (no respiration or heart) and being in a coma. Presumably while in a coma the brain is still being supplied with fuel and may then have some backround processing power.

Cacophonix
26th Apr 2013, 13:28
Could we define consciousness as awareness? Self-awareness, awareness of ones environment, etc.

I guess that is part of it in the same vein as Descarte's "cogito ergo sum". Still there appears to be so much more to it. Take the example of blindsight... (see link below). How is that we can be aware of something that we do not see?

Blindsight - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blindsight)

Caco

rgbrock1
26th Apr 2013, 13:30
G-CPTN wrote:

What about before birth?
The foetus has had a heartbeat and blood-circulation long before it was born.

Again, is it a case of consciousness? Is a foetus self-aware? Is it aware of its environment? Is it, really, aware of anything?

G-CPTN
26th Apr 2013, 13:36
Is a foetus self-aware? Is it aware of its environment? Is it, really, aware of anything?
Try sticking it with a pin . . .

If it flinches then it's aware.

Cacophonix
26th Apr 2013, 13:36
Is it, really, aware of anything?

There is a great deal of empirical evidence that a foetus after a certain term responds to a large number of stimuli (pain for example).

I would suggest that a sentient human being comes into existence well before actual birth.

Hence the many arguments pro and con abortion... (now there's a debate)!

Caco

rgbrock1
26th Apr 2013, 13:48
G-CPTN wrote:

Try sticking it with a pin . . .

If it flinches then it's aware.Is that really awareness or a visceral/physical reaction to pain?

Caco:

Ditto. Is ANY reaction to external physical stimulation an act of awareness, or a primitive response? Example: if you were to take a small hammer and hit the kneecap of someone who is dead the leg will react. That person is certainly no longer aware of anything but there is a reaction to external stimulus.

Krystal n chips
26th Apr 2013, 14:29
Purely in the name of science, and, I suppose, medical research, putting this theory ( notably the head chopping off one ) to the test could offer a whole new dimension to reality TV I suppose.

On the other hand, Simon Cowell and Ant and Dec probably would prove the theory.

It's only a thought...at this stage....:E

onetrack
26th Apr 2013, 15:13
Krystal, I believe they had the reality, without the TV, in the Middle Ages - when the locals were suitably entertained with regular head-lopping. :(

rgbrock1
26th Apr 2013, 15:15
Screw the Middle Ages. I prefer the period of time where reality had it that a man simply took his woman by the hair, dragged her into the cave, and gave her some ug-ug-um.

airship
26th Apr 2013, 15:29
I thought that it was currently "standard practice" for UK health trusts to encourage families to "sign-up" to "please do not resusitate" with regard to aged relatives...?! What better cost-cutting measure could you think of?

Nice to know that your (or my own mum aged 86) may have been a victim to cost-cutting measures most recently. :\ Nevertheless, nice to know that the present UK Royal Family continue to prosper without resorting to the "standard NHS" as it were...?! :ugh:

One treatment for the Royals (and why not elected politicians and their publicly-paid insurance plans), another for the "dirty electorate"...

tony draper
26th Apr 2013, 15:32
I love you long time Mr Rock,you give me one dollar.:rolleyes:
http://i11.photobucket.com/albums/a194/Deaddogbay/1234475280-ape_woman_zps881583bf.jpg (http://s11.photobucket.com/user/Deaddogbay/media/1234475280-ape_woman_zps881583bf.jpg.html)

funfly
26th Apr 2013, 15:40
As we never bemoan being aware of the millions of years before we were born, I cannot see why we are so worried about the few after we are dead.
We come - we go. Simple as that.
We will have changed the world in a big way or a small way simply by being here. We leave behind nothing but articles we have made and the memories we have left.
It will be all over, we will have had our time and should have made the best of it. And we will know nothing about it, same as before we were born.
We seem to find it difficult to accept this, that's what religions capitalise on. Subscribing to the dogma and mumbo jumbo of any religion seems an intrusion into the dignity of mankind, however there are many who cannot cope without these structures so it may be part of the human brain that has evolved to help the same brain cope with the pressures and enigmas placed upon it by its own complexity.
Environmentalists represent today's fashionable 'religion' and non adherence to their ideals will render one as much an outcast and being outside of a religion centuries ago. We cannot 'save the world' we are specks of dust on this planet, although I do believe that during the few million years that we inhabit this place we should concentrate on housekeeping the environment and should concentrate our efforts on making the world a good place for those who live now in all areas of the world.
Said too much, must get out more. Golf beckons.

rgbrock1
26th Apr 2013, 15:42
Gee, funfly, after reading your remarks I think I'll open the window and jump out.

funfly
26th Apr 2013, 15:59
Sad thing is that my golf is fkng bad as well:sad:

I'm going to look for a Slasher tit post - that will make it all seem worth while again.

http://www.funfly.co.uk/images/truppence.png

Dak Man
26th Apr 2013, 16:00
FF, that's probably the reality of it, however I suspect that we will never know.

We are merely star dust transiently (and perhaps conveniently) clustered into a life form.

It's the agnostic position to take, I'm as sure as I can be that you're correct but there's an element of doubt as proof can never be forthcoming.

To my way of thinking militant atheism or theism or any theism is untennable as one cannot prove a supposed non-existence or dis-prove a supposed existence.

funfly
26th Apr 2013, 16:04
Dak man,
If you go down that road, it's difficult to prove that we are here at all :ugh:

Is pPrune all in my imagination? Am I just a blob of 'stuff' with a vivid imagination?

Proof I have...I could never in my wildest blob form have imagined the comments that arrive on pPrune, hence it is proved that all is not in my imagination...

I am not a blob, QED :D

P.S. Hope you like my threpenny bits...

http://www.funfly.co.uk/images/truppence.png

sisemen
26th Apr 2013, 16:07
psst - Funfly - you are a blob. Honest.

Yrs truly God

funfly
26th Apr 2013, 16:09
BTW
They are not my threpenny bits, they are my threpenny bits.

Sudden rush of panic there, wouldn't want you to think I was a ladyboy in Bancock or summat (voice dropped half a tone as I speak) :O

http://www.funfly.co.uk/images/truppence.png

Dak Man
26th Apr 2013, 16:11
...but, FF, you could be just a plaything of my imagination...............

rgbrock1
26th Apr 2013, 16:16
[img]Is PPRuNe all in my imagination? Am I just a blob of 'stuff' with a vivid imagination?[/quote]

There are times, and on some threads, where PPRuNe is the stuff of nightmares, let alone imagination.

<where else can one start a thread about picnicking in a meadow somewhere, which then goes to Nazi Stuka dive-bombers blowing London up, then onto Dresden, Germany being fire-bombed, to pictures of tits, and then onto McDonalds making people fat.>

Dak Man
26th Apr 2013, 16:19
That's SOP on a rugby forum that I own.

Rossian
26th Apr 2013, 19:35
.....it's none of the above, it's an interference pattern in the space time continuum. Eny fule no that, innit.

The Ancient Mariner

Davaar
27th Apr 2013, 05:10
One more frequent question that the lawyer might entertain of many clients was, I used to find: "Do they have consciousness before death?"

onetrack
27th Apr 2013, 05:43
Funfly's post reminds me of the famous graffiti lines.

Overnight, on a subway wall appeared - "GOD IS DEAD - FRED".

The next night, there appeared underneath - "FRED IS DEAD - GOD" :)