Two-hundred and seventy-five 777X ?

[Mr Good Cat]

Emirates Asks Boeing for 777 Successor Specs Before Making Order - Bloomberg (http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2013-04-17/emirates-asks-boeing-for-777-successor-specs-before-making-order.html)

Discuss :ok:

[falconeasydriver]

275....:eek:

[tartare]

Pretty compelling payload range numbers if specs already published are to be believed.

[Iver]

I think they will need at least 500 once the new Dubai World airport opens up with 6-7 runways.... Don't stop at 275!!!!!

What would this do to the A350 order? Kill it?

[SMT Member]

Funny, isn't it, when Boeing dresses up an ageing girl with a new pair of boots and feathers it's hailed as a winner, perhaps even able to knock the clean-sheet competitor off its peg, but when Airbus did the same with the A330 it was shot down from nearly all sides, primarily because it was deemed uncompetitive against the clean-sheet from Seattle.

With that in mind, it is worth remembering that EK, along with a lot of other airlines, were sort of hot on the A330neo too, until they started becoming more hot on Toulouse doing a clean-sheet design instead that is. We all know what happened next, and I for one will not be surprised if the happens here; all it really takes is for Airbus to start muttering about an A350-1100 and it's game over.

[halas]

How many 777's now?
All need replacing at some stage, plus add for the future.
Plenty of freighters in that as well.
EMD must have over over 60,000 on her by now.

halas

[vfenext]

Before anyone gets too excited about the 777X have a look at the timeline. It's not going to be available for at LEAST another 7 years.
Boeing spent 2010 and 2011 honing its concept for the three-member 777X-family aircraft as a competitive response to the larger Airbus A350-900 and -1000. Boeing envisages the concept's firm configuration being established in 2015, flying in late 2017 or 2018 and entering service by 2019.

[Wizofoz]

Well, for better or worse, I'll likely be around to fly it:{

What is the whisper about MORE A380 all about? Anyone heard anything semi-official?

[helen-damnation]

EMD must have over over 60,000 on her by now.

Believe it's now about 68,000 ;)

[Tower Ranger]

Any truth in the rumour that the 330's are going to FlyDubai?

[Dannyboy39]

I know the UAE is swimming with oil money, but how the hell can any sensible airline justify the purchase of 275 B777s?! Its crazy. Its just not economically viable... is it?

Only eight airlines on the planet have a TOTAL fleet size above 275.

[Travelman Africa]

If EK continues its policy of retiring aircraft at 15 years what does that do to the aftermarket and the residual values of these aircraft?

Boeing say the economic life of the aircraft is still 22-25 years old

[Mr Good Cat]

I know the UAE is swimming with oil money, but how the hell can any sensible airline justify the purchase of 275 B777s?! Its crazy. Its just not economically viable... is it?

Only eight airlines on the planet have a TOTAL fleet size above 275.


Abu Dhabi may be swimming with oil money, but Dubai most definitely is not... They have almost NO natural resources hence the reason the city is marketing itself as a tourist and business hub.

Emirates is not the national airline of the UAE and is not owned by the government of the UAE. It is financed by a combination of the Dubai royal family and good business.

This myth about endless oil money being used just to make the biggest order for one's image is getting rather old now... Emirates aircfraft are nearly always full and I'm sure if they could get more aircraft more quickly they would, knowing that they could make even more money to fund the expansion plans.

:ugh:

[Mr Good Cat]

Funny, isn't it, when Boeing dresses up an ageing girl with a new pair of boots and feathers it's hailed as a winner, perhaps even able to knock the clean-sheet competitor off its peg, but when Airbus did the same with the A330 it was shot down from nearly all sides, primarily because it was deemed uncompetitive against the clean-sheet from Seattle.

With that in mind, it is worth remembering that EK, along with a lot of other airlines, were sort of hot on the A330neo too, until they started becoming more hot on Toulouse doing a clean-sheet design instead that is. We all know what happened next, and I for one will not be surprised if the happens here; all it really takes is for Airbus to start muttering about an A350-1100 and it's game over.


I thought this thread may turn into an A vs B bitch-scrap :ouch:

The reason Airbus canned the original beef-up of the A330 was that airlines wanted a fuselage cross-section similar in size to the 777.

The 777 already has the cabin width they want, and the -X is essentially a longer 777 fuselage with brand new wings, engines and tail.... and possibly a 787 avionics suite as the two already share a common rating.

Therefore you could say it is pretty-much a clean sheet, not a revamp. I'm sure the reason they want to keep the 777 branding tag is the success of the original 777 which has turned out to be the most successful large passenger aircraft built.

Makes sense to me!

[Dannyboy39]

I bow to your superior knowledge - I've never been to Dubai, although I'm going there next March.

I don't doubt that EK are filling their aircraft but this would more than double their existing fleet. They currently operate 117 B777 aircraft. Are the number of routes that could be served, viable?

[Wizofoz]

I don't doubt that EK are filling their aircraft but this would more than double their existing fleet. They currently operate 117 B777 aircraft. Are the number of routes that could be served, viable?

Well, people said 50 aircraft wouldn't be viable, but here we are-

I attended a breifing once with a strategic planning guy- his story was he'd worked for BA, been tasked with looking at how much of a threat this upstart airline Emirates was and, no doing the sums, promptly applied for a job with them!

HIS story was they saw a market from the region of 650 Widebodies, and that more than half of them shold be EK.

I believe the suits believe we should be a 350 aircraft Airline.

Is that viable? Dunno, WAY above my paygrade- but they HAVE been right most of the time up till now.

Getting them through the airspace, onto a runway and then parking them somewhere might be a different story, however.

[Jet II]

I believe the suits believe we should be a 350 aircraft Airline.

Is that viable? Dunno, WAY above my paygrade- but they HAVE been right most of the time up till now.


In his speech at the celebration of 75 years of open skies between the UAE and UK, Tim Clark said that EK's expansion was about halfway there - so a 350 aircraft fleet would be about right.

[stallspeed]

EK, EY, QR, whathaveyou, all of 'em expanding their fleets at breathtaking rates, all of them sharing the same airspace.
From what I hear it's already a nightmare for traffic controllers and flight crews at peak time. How long can one stay competitive in today's cut-throat markets when you have to lug around ( and use ) ever increasing quantities of holding fuel ?

[fliion]

Hours.

We have an industry best break-even load factor of 62%, roughly 10% lower than our viable competitors.

[White Knight]

Hours.

We have an industry best break-even load factor of 62%, roughly 10% lower than our viable competitors.

Sorry fellah... Missing what you're saying here. What percentage of what?

[Ghost_Rider737]

Emirates is growing faster than you can say 275 Boeing 777s !!!

That's insane . How long does it take to become a Capt at EK these days ?

[Kapitanleutnant]

How long?? For a DEC (are we still hiring them?) it's about 3-4 months and for a new joiner FO it's about 3.5 to 4 years at present.

Also, the 275 mentioned is certainly not all add on aircraft. Some... a good number will be replacement but there will indeed be steady continued growth

Kap

[Ghost_Rider737]

Well anything less than 7 years for an upgrade in a major airline ain't bad at all.

Good for you guys at EK :ok:

[tonker]

Gents, sorry to hijack the thread but can anyone give me an idea of how long it takes from application(i'm "shortlisted", whatever that really means i don't know) to interview, sim and then offer?

To say i'm a little keen to make the move is an understatement.

Again my apologies:ok:

[Wizofoz]

tonker,

Sorry to say there's no way to tell. The powers that be asses available applicants quals vs current requirement.

Might be next month, might not be for twelve.

[tonker]

Wizofox thanks:ok:

[fliion]

White Knight,

Regarding your query - the aviation financial community uses a conceptual metric to measure at what point the flight "breaks even"

The theory behind it is if you filled all four cabins (F,J,Y & Bulk) in equilibrium the point at which you start to make money is "The break even load factor"

Emirates publishes this every year in their report along with the actual load factor giving you the crack or spread ie the % profit.

It has been gradually reducing from 64% 3 years ago to 63% two years ago. I understand they are now at the 62% due to the advantage of critical mass. As a comparison most full service intl carriers B/E is low 70s with LCCs in the high 70s

Emirates is considered the most profitable airline in the world because of the B/E not necessarily what we make.

Hope that clarifies.

f.

[Craggenmore]

Dannyboy.

UAE, India said to agree huge increase in flights - Travel & Hospitality - ArabianBusiness.com (http://m.arabianbusiness.com/uae-india-said-agree-huge-increase-in-flights-499531.html)

With this just announced, the 777 order might satisfy the demand.

[GEB74]

Craggenmore.
Not sure this will help EK though.
I thought India bizarrely treats the UAE (AKA Abu Dhabi), Dubai and Sharjah separately with regards to bilaterals.
Therefore, this news benefits the carrier down the road, not EK

[Dropp the Pilot]

"Carrier" excellent choice of word, not to be confused with "viable business" unless one considers self-aggrandisement as measurable profit.

This will not end well.

[Capt Groper]

It's just the realisation that ME airports will have to be designed and run along the lines of the busiest world airports. It will happen but giving in to individual pride is required.

[Don Corleone]

There is movement

Board clears Boeing to offer the 777X for sale (http://www.flightglobal.com/news/articles/board-clears-boeing-to-offer-777x-for-sale-385382/)