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Wedcue
15th Apr 2013, 03:21
Rumour has it late this week Qantas annual training slots will be announced..

Any idea what to expect?

Capt Kremin
15th Apr 2013, 03:28
Lots of A330 slots. Rumours of max training for the next two years. Unfortunately it will only be an offset for losses of airframes on other fleets.

SixDemonBag
15th Apr 2013, 04:17
30 x Capt 330, 30+ x FO 330 & some 737 slots here and there is my guess.

goodonyamate
15th Apr 2013, 05:43
Rumour has it late this week Qantas annual training slots will be announced..

Slots are contractually due to be released TODAY, but QF will not be releasing them today, because they cant get it right.........

SDB would be pretty close, rumours of 30 plus in Capt/FO 330, around the same for the 737 (seen the divisors lately though:confused:) plus a stackload of residuals on the 737. 330 mostly A slots - id be expecting alot of movement on the 737:ok:

Strong rumours of a 330 Perth base :eek: farking hope not!!!

hotnhigh
15th Apr 2013, 06:14
Promise everything and deliver nothing of note.

Keg
15th Apr 2013, 08:43
The rumour mill suggests 4 A330 crew per month for the next 2 years. That is, 48 commands and 48 F/O slots plus whatever residuals exist in the next training year.

Can't see it myself unless there is something else that hasn't been announced. We'll all know very soon.

bangbounceboeing
15th Apr 2013, 09:09
How many years seniorority are we looking at for a 330 fo gig these days 10+?

DirectAnywhere
15th Apr 2013, 09:14
More like 14-15 based on the residuals that came out a few weeks ago. You've got 13 year FOs off the 767 bidding back to be 380 S/Os at the moment. Crazy times.

goodonyamate
15th Apr 2013, 09:28
we'll see how junior the Perth 330 FO slots go....

it's currently a bit over 9 years for syd 737 FO. bloody ridiculous

OneDotLow
15th Apr 2013, 13:48
Why would there be a Perth A330 base ?

It's not like they fly to NRT, HKG or SIN (more than once / day).

Shark Patrol
16th Apr 2013, 01:37
ODL,

Don't forget that under the Leprechaun's Grand Strategy, as the 787s arrive into that amaaaaaaaaazing business, the A330s that are redeployed back to mainline are largely to service the Perth-East Coast routes (and compete with Virgin).

In this context, a Perth base wouldn't be that surprising.

Tuner 2
16th Apr 2013, 01:40
A PER 330 base also allows QF to fly direct to DXB, as well on to certain European cities that EK have long had difficulty accessing.

BuzzBox
16th Apr 2013, 03:43
...as well on to certain European cities that EK have long had difficulty accessing.

Which cities would they be? Not being smart, just curious.

Tuner 2
16th Apr 2013, 03:46
Emirates takes fresh run at Berlin slots | Reuters (http://www.reuters.com/article/2012/05/09/emirates-germany-idUSL5E8G98BJ20120509)

OneDotLow
16th Apr 2013, 05:00
PER A330 base confirmed on the CP blog. Given the reduction in flying, I have to admit I'm surprised. As for operating PER DXB xxx, I'd be surprised. The base is very small in its initial numbers.

MelbPilot85
16th Apr 2013, 07:19
They really should be flying PER-DXB-XXX with one or more 330s, but I doubt it's going to happen. It would make far too much sense....

Conductor
16th Apr 2013, 07:21
A PER 330 base also allows QF to fly direct to DXB, as well on to certain European cities that EK have long had difficulty accessing.

I think a more likely scenario is:

PER - SYD - PER - SYD - PER - BNE - PER - MEL - PER - MEL - PER - SYD - PER ......get the drift?

gary gearbox
16th Apr 2013, 07:56
30 A330 capt
30 A330 FO
28 B737 capt
10 B737 FO

and there you have it folks

Tankengine
16th Apr 2013, 08:03
Sorry to be picky but it is:
28 Capt A330
28 F/O A330
28 Capt 737
10 F/O 737

Airbus slots MEL and Per (a couple of Sydney F/Os)
737 slots mixed bases.

Good luck!:ok:

All Capt A330 slots are identified as "A" slots rather than "Q"

Perth Airbus base starting June 2014.

Keg
16th Apr 2013, 08:05
There will be residual 737 slots on top of that to cater for those 737 drivers going to the A330- unless that is the 737 slots they've already advertised. Not quite the 'training tsunami' that a few people have been talking about on the A330.... at least in the short term.

There is a card they may be keeping up their sleeve. Will be interesting to see how that pans out over the next 4-6 months.

gary gearbox
16th Apr 2013, 08:08
Yes should be a fair bit of residual coming up.

Tankengine, that's ok mate. As I was writing it I was thinking was it 28 or 30? To hard to check the FSO again.

Tankengine
16th Apr 2013, 08:16
It will be interesting to see who goes where considering 767 F/Os are going to the 380 as S/Os rather than the 737.
Of course some of the 737 slots will go to 64 year old 747 Captains.:rolleyes:
The 747 will still be over staffed.
At least some new Captains on the 737 will be happy to have changed seats.:ok:

Keg
16th Apr 2013, 08:49
A330 Captain
15 PER,
14 MEL

A330 F/O:
4 SYD
9 MEL
15 PER

737 Captain
9 Bris
7 Per
10 Mel
2 Syd

737 F/O
1 BNE
2 MEL
5 SYD
2 PER

Keg
16th Apr 2013, 09:13
It will be interesting to see who goes where considering 767 F/Os are going to the 380 as S/Os rather than the 737.


One F/O went S/O A380 when they had the seniority to be F/O A330! :eek:

blueloo
16th Apr 2013, 09:20
One F/O went S/O A380 when they had the seniority to be F/O A330!

I don't blame them.

Big pay rise. No responsibility. Better destinations. More time off.

And you get to spend half the flight in the bunk on your back getting paid overtime to dig for prime nose gold.

Conductor
16th Apr 2013, 09:33
One F/O went S/O A380 when they had the seniority to be F/O A330!

It's not for me but I can understand how a decade of SYD - MEL - SYD could do that to a person.

leakyboats
16th Apr 2013, 11:06
Do the "J" numbers get a look in for the commands? How far off are the J numbers for a A330 command?

Shark Patrol
16th Apr 2013, 11:14
You're kidding right?

ramius315
16th Apr 2013, 11:22
Of course the J numbers get a look in.

They're only 2000 numbers off the mark though........:E

OneDotLow
16th Apr 2013, 12:55
As the MOU has provided so inclined QF pilots with opportunities over the last few years, it will provide JQ pilots with such opportunities down the track. I'm guessing a JQ number would get you a 737 FO slot or (if it exists) a 767 residual slot maybe. However, probably in 10 years or so it will get you an A330/787 command if those slots exist. I can't for the life of me understand why an eligible JQ pilot (who would already have a command) would want to get rid of the MOU now. It doesn't cost you anything if you've already got your command and it can only provide benefits down the track.

Ineligible JQ pilots are the ones leading you down the garden path on that one.

DirectAnywhere
16th Apr 2013, 12:58
Yet again, my whelm has been completely under-ed.

Aussie Fo
17th Apr 2013, 00:41
So any guesses how low the lowest will go?

I'm guessing that will be Perth based stuff this time?

The new base really throws all guesses out......

What's the word on street. A lot of 767 crew/ east coast must be a bit jaded. Not a lot about if you are not prepare to move

DirectAnywhere
17th Apr 2013, 01:33
SO A380 is looking good.

Mstr Caution
17th Apr 2013, 01:39
Bid Long to Short Haul & miss out on the FWA determined backpay in the process. :ugh:

Jetstarpilot
17th Apr 2013, 02:11
Haven't seen these possies advertized yet for us J* jocks...

Not happy AIPA:mad:

The Green Goblin
17th Apr 2013, 02:22
There is only 130 Jetstar Pilots who have access to the MOU.

If it goes to vote, even if those guys want to keep it, the rest don't.

If the scope was broadened there may be more support for it. Right now, it's a waste of time for the other 90% of Jetstar guys, hence the lack if support.

It'll be gone this EBA unless it's derailed by the Irishman.

Mstr Caution
17th Apr 2013, 02:23
jetstar pilot.

The MOU slots are at the same clerks "in tray" as the JQ 787 slots and all other JQ promotions happening other than the Darwin quarantined base.

It's time that EVERY slot available both at QF & JQ are published & available to ALL crew per the MOU.

JQ guys & girls would certainly be in the running for 737 slots out of Perth & one would imagine not too far off 737 Commands in Perth.

MC.

strim
17th Apr 2013, 02:31
Sounds like a really complicated place to work..

IsDon
17th Apr 2013, 02:33
Haven't seen these possies advertized yet for us J* jocks...

Not happy AIPA:mad:

Just what position would you expect?

I joined QF in 2002 and my seniority wouldn't get me within cooee of an A330 F/O position. If you are a JQ skipper who joined JQ the day JQ started in 2003 that would put you behind me in Q Group seniority. As such your seniority falls, at best, with a B737 F/O in Perth or S/O on the A330. I doubt you would even get an A380 S/O slot as these are being bid for by pilots senior to me.

Although since you're probably part of the entitled generation and expect to be given a command within 5 minutes of joining JQ I expect they should be creating an A380 command slot just to keep you happy.

How about a little bit if a reality check and get in F#%*¥G line pal!

Angle of Attack
17th Apr 2013, 02:39
The Jetstar MOU numbers wouldn't be anywhere close to any commands, as previously said possibly an F/O on the 737 but maybe even not...the time will come down the track where the numbers could throw up some possibilities so if I was in J* there's no way I would want the MOU deal thrown out.....

astroboy55
17th Apr 2013, 02:54
so any thoughts on who will go for what? I'd have thought that 767/744 guys would be wanting the a330 syd slots, but as there aren't many, it would more likely be 737 guys that would go for the Perth ones. hard to tell. should be a stack of training on the 737 though! plenty of residuals, probably even In sydney.

Jetstarpilot
17th Apr 2013, 02:56
Is is unreasunable to expect Hardliker and Joyce to show us some gratitude for propping up the "terminal decline" ??

We've slaved on shite t and c s now for years expecting a slice of the gravey pie hen the turn around came...

As I said, not happy Jan:mad:

DirectAnywhere
17th Apr 2013, 03:09
irony. noun. def "We've slaved on shite t and c s now for years expecting a slice of the gravey pie hen the turn around came..."

DirectAnywhere
17th Apr 2013, 03:12
The upshot of all this will probably be that current 737 captains and 400 FOs will take the 330 commands and east coast 737 commands.

A330 FO slots will probably go to current 737 FOs.

If you're a SO you'll get a shot at a PER 737 gig or SYD/MEL 737 if you're lucky/ senior enough.

Again, I'm completely underwhelmed by the munificence that continues to flow from on high.

ejectx3
17th Apr 2013, 03:18
Is is unreasunable to expect Hardliker and Joyce to show us some gratitude for propping up the "terminal decline" ??

We've slaved on shite t and c s now for years expecting a slice of the gravey pie hen the turn around came...

As I said, not happy Jan:mad:

It's hard to know where to start with this gem.

The Green Goblin
17th Apr 2013, 03:26
so if I was in J* there's no way I would want the MOU deal thrown out.....

Why?

There is only 130 Pilots in Jetstar that could use it. All are captains, many on the A330 and the soon to be 787. Most if not all are in the base they want to be in. Why would they want to become junior captains possibly in 5 years on the 737 and maybe in another 10, a junior captain on a widebody to be screwed by the senior bidding system in place at long haul, working shite rosters until they are 60 and too old to enjoy it? The A380 ain't that special, and it doesn't go anywhere that conjures visions of paradise. Unless whinging poms, obese Americans and camel racing is your thing......

Whilst I have the utmost respect for the QF guys I work with, your airline is just another airline. The guys I've flown with from Qantas are nothing special. They are just like any other Pilot I have flown with.

In all honesty and money aside, Jetstar is a better place to work. Why would the senior guys want to leave?

P2T2
17th Apr 2013, 03:27
Is is unreasunable to expect Hardliker and Joyce to show us some gratitude for propping up the "terminal decline" ??

We've slaved on shite t and c s now for years expecting a slice of the gravey pie hen the turn around came...


FFS... Cry me a river JSpilot!!!:mad:

Just to re-cap...

You joined a LCC accepting the "shite T&C's", MOU etc after choosing to / being unable to join a full service airline.

This is offset by your rapid career progression opportunities as result of cannibalising mainline routes.

Meanwhile mainline drivers patiently wait +10 years for an FO slot and minimum of 15-20 years for their initial command.

Tell me, what is it you're expecting as a sign of gratitude? Direct entry 380 commands perhaps??

How about a little bit if a reality check and get in F#%*•G line pal!
Well said IsDon...

PS: The most junior 737 Capt (PER) in the most recent trng allocations had a start date of 1998... Accordingly I'm not sure there'd be too many JQ drivers with that kinda seniority (Impulse?) who'd be interested in taking a command at the bottom of the pile.

ANCDU
17th Apr 2013, 03:31
I think as Keg said, not quite the pot of gold. The Q still has a big surplus of pilots, sure there will be a little movement too but also remember the LWOP guys will start returning in a trickle early next year ( part of the advertised training year) before there is a lot of the 200+ returning later. I think any of the J* MOU pilots might have a bit of a wait to get anything reasonable, at least another 3 years away. Do you really think the QANTAS group will transfer Jetstar guys across if they are short at Jetstar and in surplus at Qantas?

Oh and don't forget every time recently there has been a big training announcement it ends with the airline in trouble for the next few years, I see SAR's is back and those terrible bombings in the US.

Conductor
17th Apr 2013, 03:44
Is is unreasunable to expect Hardliker and Joyce to show us some gratitude for propping up the "terminal decline" ??

Are you serious champ? Do you understand exactly where mainline long haul's money has been bleeding to?

We've slaved on shite t and c s now for years expecting a slice of the gravey pie hen the turn around came...

Well then, I'm not sure if this is something you have been 'promised' or you have come to this expectation all on your own but either way I would suggest there is a fairly large reality check coming your way.

Read some history, try to understand how the current situation came to be.

IsDon
17th Apr 2013, 03:51
Is is unreasunable to expect Hardliker and Joyce to show us some gratitude for propping up the "terminal decline" ??

We've slaved on shite t and c s now for years expecting a slice of the gravey pie hen the turn around came...

As I said, not happy Jan:mad:

You ignorance, and arrogance, know no bounds.

Firstly the "terminal decline" exists only through creative accounting. When in reality it is JQ that has been propped up. One only needs to look at the accounts that were made available to the Singapore exchange recently to see that the "success" of JQ is nothing more than smoke and mirrors which suited Qantas management strategy at the time. Now it suits to show international recovering from a management stated decline, so the accounts will soon begin to show the real state of affairs. That, no doubt will show JQ to be not such an AMAZZZZZING business after all.

Secondly, you were stupid enough to sign up for those "shite ts & cs" in the first place. You have no one to blame but yourselves. It is gullible idiots such as you, signing up for them in the first place, that have created the "terminal decline" of professional pilot ts & cs and general standing in this country.

The fact that you're unhappy now gives me cause for celebration as the chickens are coming home to roost.

Buckshot
17th Apr 2013, 04:06
One F/O went S/O A380 when they had the seniority to be F/O A330!
I don't blame them.

Big pay rise. No responsibility. Better destinations. More time off.

Seriously? As S/O A380 you only get DXB, LAX and HKG (in the back seat)

myshoutcaptain
17th Apr 2013, 04:16
:D Green Goblin ...

Tidbinbilla
17th Apr 2013, 04:18
Well, it didn't take long did it?

I'll give this thread another hour or so :ugh:

maggot
17th Apr 2013, 04:39
"Jetstarpilot" is a blatant troll, ive pointed this out before... tailwheel perhaps a review of his posts may clarify.

blueloo
17th Apr 2013, 04:43
Seriously? As S/O A380 you only get DXB, LAX and HKG (in the back seat)

Compare it to MEL or BNE (and the odd PER)

Day in, Day out. Month to Month, Year to Year with slips around 12-14 hours the norm.

maggot
17th Apr 2013, 04:58
So you do get it Keith! Its a long game.

Fwiw, those talking of a 'junior 737' capt spot being undesirable need to take into account squirrel cage bidding for flying. Thus being 'junior' in it isnt really an issue as such...

maggot
17th Apr 2013, 04:59
Hmmm seems keith had a change of heart? Or a mod?

Keith Myath
17th Apr 2013, 05:01
ODL
As the MOU has provided so inclined QF pilots with opportunities over the last few years, it will provide JQ pilots with such opportunities down the track. I'm guessing a JQ number would get you a 737 FO slot or (if it exists) a 767 residual slot maybe. However, probably in 10 years or so it will get you an A330/787 command if those slots exist.

Talk about a career opportunity or what. Roll up, roll up, what you geezers Ďave ere is a magnificent opportunity, throw away that command, the circus is in town and your FO slot is ere for the taking. Standby for the stampede of JQ 330 / 320 Captains rushing for a QF 737 FO slot. Joyce is right; you are living in cloud cuckoo land.

On a positive note, we only have to wait another 10 years for a Jetstar pilot to get a command opportunity under the MOU.

I can't for the life of me understand why an eligible JQ pilot (who would already have a command) would want to get rid of the MOU now. It doesn't cost you anything if you've already got your command and it can only provide benefits down the track.

Ineligible JQ pilots are the ones leading you down the garden path on that one.

Well now Iíve heard everything, are you deliberately obtuse? Or does it come naturally? Yep, itís all about ME, and to hell with my co-workers.


This thread demonstrates so very aptly why the MOU is only ever going to be one way traffic, as P2T2 so succinctly said

The most junior 737 Capt (PER) in the most recent trng allocations had a start date of 1998... Accordingly I'm not sure there'd be too many JQ drivers with that kinda seniority (Impulse?) who'd be interested in taking a command at the bottom of the pile.

Iíll go out on a limb and venture that there will never be an impulse pilot (seniority for the MOU) that would be interested in giving up a very senior Jetstar 330 or 320 command to take a QF command at the bottom of the pile.

So how about you remind all Jetstar pilots why they should keep the MOU when they presently have the opportunity to ditch it.

Secondly, you were stupid enough to sign up for those "shite ts & cs" in the first place. You have no one to blame but yourselves. It is gullible idiots such as you, signing up for them in the first place, that have created the "terminal decline" of professional pilot ts & cs and general standing in this country.

No shortage of QF drivers breaking their necks to sign up to those very same conditions that you abhor. Could I politely suggest a reality check?

gary gearbox
17th Apr 2013, 05:16
Quote.....

"No shortage of QF drivers breaking their necks to sign up to those very same conditions that you abhor. Could I politely suggest a reality check?"

Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha

You have me pissing my pants laughing Keith. That is the funniest thing I have heard all week or year even. A few have come over as they were keen to do some flying. Breaking our necks, more like breaking our necks not too.

If you are after a reality check as to where is best to work at, have a look at how many stay when the 3 years is up.

Ps, how many have gone for the latest FO slots? How many went for the previous offer of 35 FO slots? I think there was under 10 ?

Poto
17th Apr 2013, 05:18
No shortage of QF drivers breaking their necks to sign up to those very same conditions that you abhor. Could I politely suggest a reality check?

Yes QF has stupid people Too!

P2T2
17th Apr 2013, 05:44
So how about you remind all Jetstar pilots why they should keep the MOU when they presently have the opportunity to ditch it.

It's in the Joyce's interest to hang onto it.

Despite what the AFAP / JPC might spruike I think ur gonna need more than a bit of luck trying to get rid of it...

Stalins ugly Brother
17th Apr 2013, 05:50
It's in the Joyce's interest to hang onto it.

Despite what the AFAP / JPC might spruike I think ur gonna need more than a bit of luck trying to get rid of it...

I'll go one step further and suggest IF you try and get rid of the MOU against AJs wishes you as a group may find yourselves very quickly out in the cold.

Good luck with that. :E

JetstarPilot, if you are indicative of todays new breed of pilots then I weep for the future, your ignorance is unmeasurable. :rolleyes:

Lookleft
17th Apr 2013, 07:29
Given that Jetstar pilot never actually contributes to piloting discussions a good chance he is only a pilot when the computer is switched on and Mum doesn't need him/her to feed the dog.

IsDon
17th Apr 2013, 07:35
Jetstarpilot.

I agree, probably more like FlightSim pilot.

Clearly a troll. He couldn't possibly be anything else given his appalling ignorance. Any chance the mods could take a look at this guy with a view to giving him the boot.

To those JQ pilots I offended with my spray at Jetstarpilot, I unreservedly apologise.

The Don.

OneDotLow
17th Apr 2013, 10:14
Keith,

Comprehension never really was your strong suit was it?

:ugh:

Angle of Attack
17th Apr 2013, 11:26
[QUOTE][In all honesty and money aside, Jetstar is a better place to work. Why would the senior guys want to leave?/QUOTE]

Of course Jetstar is a better place to work, with all money and honesty aside!, I can't believe you hit the nail on the head! No problem cancel the MOU, but if you have been in the business long enough you will know its a mistake..

Boomerang
21st Apr 2013, 10:44
This thread was about QF training bids right?

As a JQ pilot, I'd say don't waste your time arguing with JetstarPilot.

Angle of Attack, "No problem cancel the MOU, but if you have been in the business long enough you will know its a mistake.." is not applicable to the majority of JQ pilots, who have no access to QF seniority.

I acknowledge the longstanding argument that the MOU was there when we signed up, and like any sore point in an EBA, it would NOT be a reason not to join, for anyone.

As with any EBA negotiation, it is probably the best time to try to address the things you feel would like to see changed. If resistance (deletion of the MOU) is futile, so be it, but for a negotiating team not to represent the desires of its' majority pilots would be inexcusable. (No AFAP vs AIPA please as they seem to be doing a great job together at the moment)

I like Jetstar for the lifestyle it gives me. Thats it. Some say T&Cs are shite, I disagree. Yes, of course there is room for improvement!

QFs are no doubt better, but how old is your EBA?

Back to topic?