College Degrees

[japandwell]

Just finishing a graduate degree here in US,and felling a bit mixed on whether this was really such a good idea. Tens of thousands spent, and honestly not really seeing that it actually applies well to piloting. Started out with the usual BA,and then feeling the need to challenge myself further. There wasn't much going on for the past three years on the flying end, so said what the heck!!
Met a Virgin America pilot in SFO two months ago, and this guy didn't even have a damn degree!! Imagine where he will be in two years!! Flying for a major for sure, if he wants.
Been reading articles all over the place on college enrollment being down. Most students never finishing etc.
Seems like college just slows the flying side of your education down, and adds $$$$ to the debt, does nothing more for piloting..
Also seems like many newer pilots are opting not to go at all! What are some opinions you all have on college in US? Is it maybe time for new pilots to take a second look, and opt out?

[DA50driver]

Most (If not all) major airlines in the US require a college degree. It is in in place of the IQ test they used to be able to administer. It is a hurdle to clear in order to get the interview.

Pilots do not have much say anymore, so you need to impress the people in HR that most certainly will be impressed by a Masters degree or higher.

I wouldn't mind the IQ test, it would have saved lots of money and time. Besides that I have never used my extensive clay pot making abilities from the required arts class in the cockpit.

[japandwell]

I am seeing the same thing! I'll never use my Aviation Law, or Accounting on approach either. It is yet to be seen if majors will continue to require this or not. I would imagine that in spite of the fact I met pilots with terrific experience, and no degree, the requirement will continue.
Maybe a different educational model. One without all the classes that have no real application towards piloting. An associates may well be more realistic! Two and a half years with ample credit towards ratings up to CFII.
I do agree though that it is really the HR department with the authority on this. Wishfull thinking that this would ever change without all pilots new to the industry to make it happen. I forged ahead because it was a firm requirement years ago when I started. If I thought that an airline would take me without all this, then I would probably been further ahead and out of debt sooner.
Anyway, I have been reading that schools are feeling the pinch, and they should.

[The Dominican]

That is why it doesn't really matter what the degree is on, what other career do you know that will require a degree that is completely unrelated to the career itself? I went with a non aviation degree and I'm recommending the same to my son, I have put it to good use in many other ventures outside of flying and I'm glad I got it, but in 30+ years of flying I can tell you that you will not use the education from your degree at all, this here is a technical career, you are not building the machine here, you are operating it:rolleyes:

[jsfboat]

I've been one class away for a few years from having my BS in Aviation Flight Technology. My other interests is machining/welding, and writing. If I can find a job where I have 2 weeks off, I will most likely go back to school for Journalism. I only went aviation as it was a way to help fund the flight training, but yes I should've went non aviation.

[weasil]

The new FAR that requires f/o's to have an ATP goes into effect in August.
The regionals are requiring ATP mins now for this reason. I believe the new rules have an exception for graduates of an aviation degree program.

"Graduates of a four-year baccalaureate aviation degree program would be able to obtain an ATP with 1,000 hours of flight time, only if they also obtained a commercial pilot certificate and instrument rating from a pilot school affiliated with the university or college."
https://www.faa.gov/news/press_releases/news_story.cfm?newsId=13373

[MarkerInbound]

To clarify, Congress passed a law in 2010 that requires all 121 pilots to hold an ATP this August. Not the FAA. They also allowed the FAA to change the requirements to receive an ATP. The FAA has published an NPRM for changing the ATP requirements (reduced TT for military pilots and ERU/et al. grads, mandatory classroom and sim time) but as of yet there have been no changes to Part 61.

[linkebungu]

I too am a college student in the US and see it as a waste of time. I will never use any of the classes I take in a career as a pilot. However I think it will stick around, it is a way to weed out [job] candidates, see who is dedicated and can finish something they start.

[japandwell]

I am glad for only 1 thing concerning college, and that is that I am glad I finished! Don't put yourself at any disadvantage by not finishing a 4 year degree. I am just looking back at the whole thing, and thinking that my time and money could have better spent.
You will just have to keep pressing through.and get that 4 year degree!! I am not in a position to give advise on a masters, but I didn't get much out of it. Each person is different though. Remember that a masters is highly academic, and the capstone, or worse yet thesis will drive you nuts. Took me a couple of tries.

[TeaTowel]

I'm not in the States but in my own country there has been an increases in people going to college just to get a degree in "something" or worse: a Masters in "Fixing the fact my primary degree was in the wrong field but I wouldn't admit it".

A degree + years of work is obviously a positive and says a lot of good about the candidate. If the candidate has a degree but no work exp. due to lack of work thats perfectly fine too. We all know its a struggle out there at the moment.

If a candidate just has their degree to tell people they have it, then surely can't be looked on as a positive. If I recently had a Bsc and used it to apply to grad programmes in other random industries like flying I would find myself feeling very guilty. My degree would just be gathering dust in the shed, whereas someone else might have used it! Yes an increase in the education levels is a plus for society, but only if the knowledge is used!. If its used as "CV filler" its more detrimental than anything, and devalues the qualification. These days, people tell you they have a degree first and what it's in second(If they even tell you at all).:rolleyes:

It's odd that someone with a dentistry degree, having never worked as a dentist + 2 years of flying can apply to a major carrier but someone with 7+ years flying can't.

Don't you guys just find that an insult to our profession?

[japandwell]

A different model,as I previously suggested, may be the answer to what you seem to be indicating here. There is nothing IMHO that is inherently wrong with a college degree. It is the time and money spent that does not really lead towards better piloting that makes me take a second look here. There are some universities that offer credit towards work experience,and offer flexible schedules. Even online.Some universities offer 35 credits,or so, for a CFI with experience. This is an aviation degree though. These can't really be used outside, and that decreases the actual value, as you have indicated. Seems like getting a degree with no real value is what bothers me about the entire process. A person could also easily find himself still in school when airlines are hiring, and no longer hiring when he finishes. Heavy debts from loans may prevent the aspiring aviator from accepting that first job offer.

[Koan]

Only 150 of 3500 U.S. Colleges Are Worth the Investment: Former Secretary of Education | Daily Ticker - Yahoo! Finance (http://finance.yahoo.com/blogs/daily-ticker/only-150-3500-u-colleges-worth-investment-former-132020890.html?vp=1)

[Mick16]

Bottom line is that many majors still require a degree and hiring will still be competitive for quite a few years. The big wave of retirements isn't coming until after 2018. I have a friend who worked many years as a ramp controller for a major before his flying career started. He's now a check airman at a regional and cannot be hired at his former major airline since he has no degree.
Secondly, IMHO, a degree in anything is still helpful in this career. I have a B.A in History and use the experience from university every day. You develop study skills, analytical skills, effective communication for CRM etc etc. It's not just a piece of paper. That's my opinion.