PDA

View Full Version : Qantas 787's and possible 747 freighter's? What's the latest rumour?


pull-up-terrain
10th Apr 2013, 08:28
I have done a search and all the threads have ended up being closed. On our lunch break the other day, we were trying to work out what was going on and thought someone on pprune may of been keeping track.

So our questions are;

Does anyone know what's the latest rumour with the 787? So correct me if I'm wrong, jetstar will be receiving 15 787-8's and Qantas will receive 10 787-something's and 35 787 orders have been cancelled right?

Jetstar will be receiving the 787-8 first?

The 35 cancelled orders, have they been cancelled or put on hold for a later date?

Now the 747 freighter... Does anyone have any information? Or is it another 777 rumour that floats around every couple of years.

Keg
10th Apr 2013, 08:48
Jetstar will receive 14 787-8 supposedly from Aug/ Sep this year- QF cancelled the 15th a little while ago AND got a pay out for it.

As they get them, A330s will come back to QF.

Beyond those 14, the QF group have zero firm orders but have 35 (I think... may be out on that one, perhaps 50?) fully convertible options on 787-9s available for delivery (as of today's date anyway) from 2016 onwards. Whether Boeing can deliver them in that time frame remains to be seen.

I reckon you're right about the 747 freighter. It's up there with the 777.

pull-up-terrain
10th Apr 2013, 09:24
eyond those 14, the QF group have zero firm orders but have 35 (I think... may be out on that one, perhaps 50?) fully convertible options on 787-9s available for delivery (as of today's date anyway) from 2016 onwards. Whether Boeing can deliver them in that time frame remains to be seen.

Thanks kegs.

We were a bit unsure about all the convertible options on the 787's that qf may end up receiving in the future.

Just wondering are the mainline pilots going to fly the 787 or is that still unknown like it is for engineering?

Going Boeing
10th Apr 2013, 09:40
My understanding is the Qantas Group B787 status as currently announced is 14 firm orders for JQ, zero orders for Mainline, zero options and 50 "intentions to buy". Joyce may have intentions to convert them to orders/options but he's playing his cards close to his chest and the managers below him know bugger all.

Keg
10th Apr 2013, 09:57
Thanks for the added info Going Boeing.

Mainline pilots flying the 787? Our award covers the introduction of new types. Whether QF intends to use mainline pilots is the $64 question.

I should clarify the freighter option a bit too. If I recall correctly, the board has actually approved the acquisition of two 744 freighters? My understanding is that they're for EFA. I think they (the 'royal they' as in the group, not EFA, mainline engineering, etc) are already discussing how to integrate them into the system of maintenance.

Whether there is some sort of crewing arrangement for mainline crews, who knows. Past behaviour being a good indicator of future behaviour I would suggest that EFA will crew them whilst mainline crews continue to burn down excess leave- to the net detriment of the group bottom line but it'll make a couple of managers KPIs look awesome. :ugh:

Jabawocky
10th Apr 2013, 12:49
So much for the biggest fleet orders and QF getting the shot in the arm it needed.

Just like the 777...QF miss the boat and get the old A330's back :yuk:

Had a great trip to and from LAX on QF recently, shame its is my last. Not my last trip, just QF.:ugh:

pull-up-terrain
12th Apr 2013, 07:10
Just was reading this article in the news today.

AUSTRALIAN flag carrier Qantas says that the delivery of its first Boeing's 787 Dreamliner may be delayed by "a couple of months" but reiterated its backing for the troubled aircraft.
Qantas International chief executive Simon Hickey told reporters in Singapore that the first of 14 Dreamliners ordered by Qantas is now expected to be delivered "sometime after August" due to battery problems.
Asked how long after August -- the month of delivery previously mentioned by Qantas -- Hickey said: "It wouldn't be more than a couple of months."
The Dreamliners were grounded globally on January 16 after a series of overheating problems with the cutting-edge plane's lithium-ion battery system.
"I think the aircraft is a phenomenal aircraft," Hickey told reporters after launching a new Qantas lounge at Singapore's Changi Airport.
"What it does is provide the economics of a jumbo with a much more number of seats which is fantastic. So you can get either frequency or distribution strength by using an aircraft such as the 787," he said.
"We're still very committed to the 787."
In addition to the 14 B787-8 planes on order, Qantas has retained purchase rights for 50 of the B787-9 variant, he said.
The Dreamliners were grounded after a battery caught fire in a parked Japan Airlines 787 at Boston's Logan Airport and battery smoke forced an emergency landing of an All Nippon Airways 787 in Japan.
On March 12, the US Federal Aviation Administration approved Boeing's plan for testing the batteries as the first step toward the plane's return to flight.
Hickey said the problems with the Dreamliner batteries were part of "teething issues with any new aircraft that has ever been available to put in the air".
"I still think it's a fantastic aircraft," he added.


Read more: Qantas says Dreamliner delivery delayed | News.com.au (http://www.news.com.au/business/breaking-news/qantas-says-dreamliner-delivery-delayed/story-e6frfkur-1226618615346#ixzz2QEM3EoMF)

Capt Kremin
12th Apr 2013, 08:34
Why is the CEO of Qantas International making a comment on the 787?

What The
12th Apr 2013, 09:43
Marc whatever his name is who designs the seats may have let that slip on a flight recently.:cool:

regitaekilthgiwt
12th Apr 2013, 10:14
"What it does is provide the economics of a jumbo with a much more number of seats which is fantastic. So you can get either frequency or distribution strength by using an aircraft such as the 787," he said.

Where do we get these people?? The economics of a jumbo? Whoopdedo. What about the economics of a 777. With much more seats? Does this not make sense to anyone else?

Anyway :(

I hope u r right What The but gave up holding my breath years ago

Transition Layer
12th Apr 2013, 11:17
Why is the CEO of Qantas International making a comment on the 787?

My thoughts exactly. Surely that falls under Hrdlicka's responsibility. :confused:

Mstr Caution
12th Apr 2013, 12:49
400 surplus pilots, half of which are on leave of absence.

SH talking about the 787 at the new premium lounge in Singapore.

CP INTL stating the three year flying plan won't see redundancies.

Nah. Surely they wouldn't be thinking of providing premium 787 services to Asia.

We're talking QF here.

wheels_down
20th Apr 2013, 00:04
Dont have a rego, but ZA215 VH- is now on the production line.

Shouldn't be too long until a shot of it surfaces over the next week or two..

BA's first 787 sighting.

http://www.airlinereporter.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/04/BA787.jpg

Keg
21st Apr 2013, 03:19
The other thing worth mentioning is that QF Flight Ops ability to keep a secret has improved dramatically. The PER base landed upon a completely unsuspecting pilot group. No pilot I'd spoken to in the lead up to the training slots being released had mentioned it even as a possibility.

Therefore, whilst I'm more likely to think that IF (and it's still a massive IF) QF change their minds about the 787, then no one will know about it until AJ announces it.

Coincidentally, he has a press conference scheduled for 10am Monday morning. :ok:

Capt Kremin
21st Apr 2013, 05:18
Maybe.... But the 330 PER base is set up to receive the Stolen generation back.

OneDotLow
21st Apr 2013, 05:57
There has been chatter about "looking for the right opportunity to exit JQI"... ie how to save face.

No doubt we will all be proved wrong tomorrow when AJ stands up and announces another airline to undercut the under cutters....:rolleyes:

Or will we?

goodonyamate
21st Apr 2013, 07:09
There has been a bit of talk about a late change to the allocation of the 787-8. I remember at a management pow wow we were told that 'QF dont want the 800, not as good as advertised, JQ can have em'.......

Also rumours that the QF cabin design team were recently rushed over to the states, and after a few too many chardy's on the way home one let slip that they had been tasked to quickly do the interiors for QF 787's


One JQ 330 dude i sat next to on a paxing flight recently told me the loads between Oz and Narita had been very low.....the lowest he'd seen was 40 odd pax, and he wouldnt be surprised if JQI was slowly wound down...

Who knows...interesting to see. Although given AJ's history for letting QF down, it will probably be a press conference to announce the appointment to the board of another private equity guru with zero airline experience....:rolleyes:

QFdude
21st Apr 2013, 08:42
..... and why was OW the cover story of the Australian Mag this weekend??

What The
21st Apr 2013, 09:47
Taking the "link" off Qantaslink and an order for 318/319 busses.

goodonyamate
21st Apr 2013, 09:51
Taking the "link" off Qantaslink and an order for 318/319 busses.

I cant remember exactly who told me, it was definitely a company person, they said that QF had applied for the 'link' thing, but it had been denied by some regulatory/legal/government body.

Transition Layer
21st Apr 2013, 10:11
The bad news usually gets announced on Fridays at 5pm, so maybe it won't be so bad for once :confused:

OneDotLow
21st Apr 2013, 10:13
What the said :
Taking the "link" off Qantaslink and an order for 318/319 busses.


If any short haulers need a red tie, just go and flog one of the mannequins with the new cabin crew uniforms on...

Stalins ugly Brother
21st Apr 2013, 11:00
..... and why was OW the cover story of the Australian Mag this weekend??

In the story it appears she doesn't like pilots, so it must have come to her as a big surprise when she joined an airline that they actually employ pilots as well. :E

Anyway OW, good luck with whatever you do next. :ok:

The Kelpie
21st Apr 2013, 11:19
There has been chatter about "looking for the right opportunity to exit JQI"... ie how to save face.

No doubt we will all be proved wrong tomorrow when AJ stands up and announces another airline to undercut the undercutters

Rumour has it Alan is about to announce a timetable for his departure!!

ramius315
21st Apr 2013, 12:08
Joyce is announcing that QF is recruiting pilots again, so all the oldies hanging around for 'their' redundancy payout can just retire instead.

(You know - all the same guys who claim that Dixon/Joyce have their snouts in the trough and don't understand the idiom 'The pot calling the kettle black'.....)

:ok:

Capt Kremin
22nd Apr 2013, 00:17
Nothing earth shattering....

Today Qantas and the New South Wales Government
will announce a new $30 million partnership to promote Sydney and
regional NSW to the world. Itís the largest tourism and major events
marketing partnership in the Stateís history and involves Qantas
matching the NSW Government dollar for dollar to attract more
international visitors particularly from the United States, United
Kingdom, Continental Europe, China, South-East Asia, Japan and New
Zealand.

Captain Gidday
23rd Apr 2013, 13:29
Not that we're a Sydneycentric airline, or anything.

P.S. We'll retire when we are damned good and ready. Young man, if you feel you have a birthright to promotion, then you should be promoting VR, not division. We are not here for your benefit.

T-Vasis
23rd Apr 2013, 13:50
Where is the majority of Australia's population based...

Supply and demand...

Pedota
23rd Apr 2013, 22:54
To answer your question directly T - Vasis . . . the majority of Australia's population is not located in NSW :). Still, I guess it means QF will no longer be referred to as the 'national carrier'.

standard unit
23rd Apr 2013, 23:09
Another AJ tantie where he takes his money away from his former BFF just because he can ???

Nigel747
24th Apr 2013, 04:54
No longer a rumour- just announced, 1 747 freighter.
True to form, current surplus on the jumbo not
to be utilised. The rot continues.

OneDotLow
24th Apr 2013, 05:42
But didn't we all sign the bog roll of enchantment together???!!!

hotnhigh
24th Apr 2013, 06:43
Its ok, just another head of training, head of flight ops 747, head of etc, etc.
Unbelievable:ugh::ugh::ugh::ugh::ugh::ugh::ugh::ugh::ugh::ug h:
But at least previous pilots with efa, are up in singapore completing 787 training for jetstar. Its all about the opportunity!:=:=:=

Angle of Attack
24th Apr 2013, 08:07
EFA is already setup, and even though I can understand the frustration of current 747 pilots in QF under utilised, there is no way in hell that the flying will be under the Longhaul Contract, even with excess crew atm I still reckon it would be more expensive for EFA 747's to be crewed by current Longhaul crews. It will be under a different contract so legally the company can't use the crews because they can't force people on to the new contract unless they choose to. He'll LWOP is available so if you want to fly for them apply, I can guarantee there is no Cargo flight crew contract anywhere that resembles at all a QF Longhaul conditions......they are for pax flying not cargo. The flying is available and you can do it with a LWOP, at least the offer is there... Good luck.

goodonyamate
24th Apr 2013, 08:23
I wouldnt be so sure that the 744 flying will be available to QF LWOP crew.....
The guys at EFA will get first option, as they should. While it makes more sense (from one perspective) to let the QF 744 guys swap over, it is a separate operation. If QF had new 737's, and EFA had a surplus, would we allow EFA crew to just come across? I bloody hope not. QF SO's etc should get first options.

As has been said, at least the option for LWOP is there (whether it be 737/767 or 744). Much better than being given a blanket 'NO', as per Jetstar 2004......

Capt_SNAFU
24th Apr 2013, 11:59
And just where will the startup cost of the EFA 747 op come from? I'm sure they will write their own ops manuals, training programs etc etc. BS!!!!!!!! I'm sure that they will use QF training, QF maintenance, QF sims, QF manuals, QF procedures, QF IOC, just about everything except QF pilots. I'm sure they will pay market rates for all the info too.:mad:

As to the expense of paying Pax rates for cargo. It would seem pilots at our new best buddies at EK do both but that can't happen here. No no no.

pull-up-terrain
25th Apr 2013, 00:14
Where did you find that out nigel747?

With the jetstar 787's, I thought jetstar mainline pilots were flying them?

Fuel-Off
25th Apr 2013, 01:46
To play devil's advocate...

It would seem pilots at our new best buddies at EK do both but that can't happen here. No no no.

That's because EK drivers don't get paid as much as QF drivers.

Fuel-Off :ok:

Taildragger67
25th Apr 2013, 02:08
Qantas Updates Freighter Aircraft (http://www.qantasnewsroom.com.au/media-releases/qantas-updates-freighter-aircraft) 747-400ERF apparently.

Silverado
27th Apr 2013, 00:03
So which aircraft have they leased?

747-4EVF (http://www.airliners.net/photo/Boeing-747-4EVF-ER-SCD/2222751/L/&sid=6192a033cebae7eff7b980c7c5139ed9)

747-4EVF (http://www.airliners.net/photo/Southern-Air/Boeing-747-4EVF-ER-SCD/2226414/L/&sid=973958a3a2568a3ab7482fec6bab225a)

pull-up-terrain
28th Apr 2013, 03:15
The rumour i heard today from a reliable source. The 747-400ERF will be maintained by qantas lame's (which is great for us short term). But the pilots, by the looks of it, will most likely be crewed by EFA. However, they still are considering using qantas mainline pilots under the long haul eba because they will need a lot more pilots for this operation compared to the 767f operation because of the stop over in LA and the 4 man tech crew to fly it to LA. (not very cheap to give 20+ pilots 744 endorsements (and thats for only 1 plane). There will possibly be a 2nd 744ERF in the future too.

SMOC
28th Apr 2013, 03:41
Direct to LAX? Surely they would fly via Asia and Anchorage. I'm sure I've heard the current QF (Atlas?) freighter call signs going via Asia.

Mstr Caution
28th Apr 2013, 04:01
The Pilots may come FROM the ranks of the Longhaul EBA but won't fly the freighter ON the Longhaul EBA.

If past form is anything to go by, the pilots MAY be selected from the Mainline ranks, however if D.R can't pick & choose who he wants to fly his freighter. He will walk away from using mainline guys. Just like last time with the 767 freighter.

Jackneville
28th Apr 2013, 04:16
Could someone please enlighten me as to how a single aircraft, LH operation would work in respect to
a timetable ? The crew will have to get off at various ports as defined by CAO48, if you only have one
hull does that mean that the next crew have been sitting in the slip port for days, or possibly a whole
week, or do you have crews continually positioning on commercial carriers ?

Sorry if I'm missing the obvious but I can't see how one aircraft could be viable

pull-up-terrain
28th Apr 2013, 05:49
The Pilots may come FROM the ranks of the Longhaul EBA but won't fly the freighter ON the Longhaul EBA.

If past form is anything to go by, the pilots MAY be selected from the Mainline ranks, however if D.R can't pick & choose who he wants to fly his freighter. He will walk away from using mainline guys. Just like last time with the 767 freighter.


The difference this time is they need a lot more pilots for this operation compared to the 767f operation where it's a 2 man tech crew and no stopover. My source says it is very likely that it will be Efa pilots, but they still have using qf mainline pilots under the long haul eBa on the table still.

SMOC

It is correct that they do go via china to lax, but thats 5 days a week. From memory they do one Australia to Hong Kong flight per week, one Australia to shanghai flight per week. At this stage they intend on using the 744erf to do Sydney to lax 4 times a week.

SMOC
28th Apr 2013, 08:05
At this stage they intend on using the 744erf to do Sydney to lax 4 times a week.

Out of interest what sort of export would QF be hauling, I guess a direct flight to lax would need to bulk/volume out rather than approach MZFW.

What fuel load is a typical SYD-LAX in a 744?

Silverado
28th Apr 2013, 08:29
Out of interest what sort of export would QF be hauling

Mainly air and empty pallets

pull-up-terrain
28th Apr 2013, 08:56
Out of interest what sort of export would QF be hauling, I guess a direct flight to lax would need to bulk/volume out rather than approach MZFW.

Keep in mind atlas air currently operates lax to australia 4 times a week (qantas will take over this route according to the rumour i heard). I have no idea on the type of cargo on that route, but im assuming there is enough cargo on that route for a 744f. My son who works in the mines, says a lot of the mining stuff is manufactured in the US and gets flown into Australia because most of the time, going by ship takes too long.

What fuel load is a typical SYD-LAX in a 744?
Close to full when plane is full of pax and cargo, we try and have approximately 15 ton of fuel left over just incase they need to go to an alternate airport. Going LAX to SYD requires more fuel because of the head winds. (im a lame, im sure the pilots will give you a better answer).

backspace
28th Apr 2013, 11:03
Roughly 110T freight would give you 135T of fuel, don't think you could do LA-SYD on that. Max Fuel roughly 163T (no stab tank on freighters) would give you 82T of freight.

nitpicker330
28th Apr 2013, 11:27
What would they be hauling?

All the freight and bags the A380 to LAX and the 744 to DFW can't. :D

Silverado
28th Apr 2013, 12:40
I'd expect the route flown would continue to be SYD-HNL-LAX

maggot
28th Apr 2013, 12:45
I love a laff too but how often would the 180 leave bags behind? Never heard of it, unlike the dallas, but the 80 may get a shot at leaving bags behind on that one soon..... :E