Is there really a lack of pilots

[roksajet]

Today I saw an add that you can pay for your own upgrade. For some 50.000 EUR. When will we open our eyes and stop paying for own ratings. If you love to fly spend money maybe on some Pitts or glider and have fun. With self sponsorships we are only making profit for the companies and not for us. I saw that in USA first officers on CRJ are working for about 23 USD. What kind of joke is this and I guess they all payed for Type rating.

What can we do to stop this nonsense. With nowadays managers logics we will start earning money when we will be some 50 years old.

What I suggests is not to pay for any rating for about one year. If you can afford to pay for type rating then I guess you can be at home with that money doing nothing just waiting.
If there really is a lack of pilots, in my opinion companies will have to start paying again for planes which they operate.

Maybe I'm dreaming but I'm not willing to pay for any rating. Till today I'm CRJ captain and didn't have to pay for any rating and I hope it will stay that way.

What do you think? Should we spread the word....

[zondaracer]

I saw that in USA first officers on CRJ are working for about 23 USD. What kind of joke is this and I guess they all payed for Type rating.

Bad assumption... I don't know anyone who pays for a type rating at a regional job in the US.

[B767PL]

Not gonna happen. Supply and demand, and there is too much supply.

Nobody pays for type in US regionals, and most majors bar Southwest.

With the new ATP rule coming into effect in August the regionals are having a hard time finding qualified applicants.

[A and C]

It is not so mucha pilot shortage as a shortage of some types of pilot, in Europe young guys with a type rating and no experience are still two a penny but the shortage is with people who can command a 737 or A320 as demonstrated by the airline that pays a staff member £1000 for each captain they can get to join the airline.

[volare_737]

Where are those 320 jobs ????? Would love to know !!!!!!:)

[SAS-A321]

No, there is no shortage and there will not be in the next few years. The schools pump out new pilots every year, when there is not enough jobs available and this creates the lucrative business for some banana companies to do p2f. :ugh:

[McBruce]

Every year without fail......

[737 Jockey]

Yes there is......according to the FTO's ;)

[B737900er]

Ohh there is a shortage, of EXPERIENCED flight crew.

Experience is the word they like to miss out every time. Just look at the jobs available on these job sites. Captain for either B737 A320 or B777.
There are jobs for the odd FO but again, hours on type and sometimes around 3000 total time.

[MCDU2]

There has been and NEVER will be a shortage of low time inexperienced pilots.

There IS a shortage of EXPERIENCED high houred captains and TRE/Is on certain specific types that are willing to travel to the ar*e end of the world as expats.

By the time that the low houred inexperienced pilots have attained command and experience these contracts will be long gone and the developing/3rd world countries will have sufficient local man/woman power in order to recruit internally.

[jester42]

''There has been and NEVER will be a shortage of low time inexperienced pilots.''

So true, not even in the early 90's when flying clubs were trawled for anyone with a heartbeat and a CPL.
I/R and type rating provided with full pay one day one.
Aircraft sat on aprons, terminals full of pax, plenty of Captains but no one to fly with them.

Yep, I can't remember those days either! :E

[16024]

No, but I remember the days in the late 90's when that was indeed the case. After a few years of getting "We're not hiring, and even if we were we wouldn't be hiring you" letters, I finally got a job after buying my own rating. (There's nothing new about that, despite it all being seemingly ryanair's fault.)
Within 6 months I was getting phone calls at home from those same companies.
It seemed to happen overnight, but the amusing and equally frustrating thing was we had all been predicting it for ages, and yes there were all those glass-half-empty people telling us we were all wasting our time and would never get a job. I still could never see the pleasure in that.

[Superpilot]

What's repetitive; always fails to impress; and results in extreme poverty to anyone who takes it up?

Yep you guessed it.

[captainbirdseye]

Pessimism?

[Pilotinmydreams]

Maybe it's me being over simplistic but it seems to me that in a few years the airline industry is going to have a major problem. When experienced Captains retire, who is going to be there to take their places? If the P2F guys and gals have had to bug out because they can no longer afford to live on peanuts, where is the experience coming from? Surely Airline management must be thinking ahead to this possible scenario if someone like me who knows absolutely jack about airline recruitment can dream it up.

[What Now]

Can we narrow our definition of pilot? Then the answer to this question becomes very easy. Whilst using the broadest possible definition the answer is: no there is no shortage. If we require a person capable, competent etc then I suspect he answer might be yes.

Disappointingly, defining capable, competent etc, through, do you have a licence? is not a particularly fine filter.

[16024]

Pessimism

Brilliant! Possibly the best post ever on pea prune.

Aye, we're doomed, doomed.

[Pilotinmydreams]

The assault on Ts&Cs for guys and girls in the RHS has been successful for management; now for the attack on the LHS. And still the wannabe zombie army will come...

Is there no legal minimum number of hours required then before you can get command on certain types? I would hate to think that in a few years i'm being flown around the world in a 747 by a couple of 20 year olds whose parents had deep pockets. Granted, as a traveller I do look to find the best price for my trip but there are limits. At least at the moment I know (or hope I do) that there is at least one of you at the pointy end who has not only the training but also experience.

[flash8]

I would hate to think that in a few years i'm being flown around the world in a 747 by a couple of 20 year olds

If I recall correctly Mexicana had a severe home grown shortage (early 80's?) and was forced by circumstances, politics and other to eventually end up with 21 year old Captains, 19 year old First/Second Officers on the 727, the entire average age of the flight crew around 20!

[WX Man]

I was told by a bloke that he will hire, in this order:

1. Type rated experienced people
2. Type rated people without experience
3. Non type rated people with experience
4. Doesn't matter what #4 is, there are plenty of #3.

Dare I say that the supply of 1s and 2s are drying up....?

[Boeing 7E7]

There is no shortage of pilots whatsoever. When Thomson Airways in the UK recruited a modest number of pilots this year on to the B737, it received over 700 type rated applicants. It is merely wishful thinking on behalf of ignorant or delusional individuals or flying schools pedalling a reoccurring myth.

Neither is there likely to be one for a long time to come given the real economic climate that the US and Europe face.

[lederhosen]

There certainly does not seem to be any shortage. But then again I doubt all of the 700 type rated people applying to Thomson were without jobs. Pilots often see the grass as being greener elsewhere. The number who had more than 1500 hours on type (couple of years experience) and were currently unemployed would be interesting to know.

[smith]

I think there is a real shortage of pilots, airlines can't fill their jets and are actively recruiting cadets on fully funded, fast track ATPL courses, did you not know this?

[TeaTowel]

fully funded, fast track ATPL courses

Fully funded by the cadet of course. Its a money maker for the School and airline.

[wiggy]

I think there is a real shortage of pilots, airlines can't fill their jets

You may think that but that's simply not true.

[darkroomsource]

I think there is a real shortage of pilots, airlines can't fill their jets and are actively recruiting cadets on fully funded, fast track ATPL courses, did you not know this?

For those who missed it, I'm sure this is sarcasm.

The point being made is this,
WHEN there is a shortage of pilots, airlines will be having trouble filling their jets, they will be actively recruiting cadets and paying for their fast track ATPL courses.
Additionally, there will be a shortage of flight instructors, because they'll all be getting jobs with airlines.


Until we see these things, then it's clear there is NOT a shortage of pilots, there isn't even a shortage of experienced pilots.

[go-around flap 15]

Just my two cents for anyone reading this and thinking about training:

Schools will always talk about a pilot shortage, and in a way is that surprising? They are businesses after all.

There is a video up on youtube of a CTC open day which shows just how hard some FTOs like to push the stats.

The case is as it has always been (although granted much more difficult now than as in the boom years) - there are jobs for low houred pilots. Just nowhere near enough to go round. You either have to be lucky or make sure you work your socks off to differentiate yourself from everybody else.

Of those few jobs for low houred guys and girls, most don't offer the T&Cs that attracted them to the industry in the first place, BUT getting the first job will open up many others. Don't bend over for P2F or T&Cs that resemble slave labour but on the other hand don't pass up on opportunities just because they don't pay a salary your FTO tempted you with initially.

Think long and hard about what you will do if you cannot find a job that will cover your loan repayments, I know people in this situation and its not nice to see it happen to friends. Out of our FTO course, fewer than 50% have secured airline employment. Not to say that flying a jet is the only way to make a career in aviation, but lets face it, not many go to the likes of CTC, OAA, FTE with the expectation of being an FI.