View Full Version : Desperate for B737 command? P2F Upgrade scam
angelorange
5th Apr 2013, 14:31
"
How it Works?
You apply and are selected to program;
You sign a contract for a 6 years;
After first year, you will work at Ripoffmerchants.com as a leased pilot;
For a period, when Ripoffmerchants.com could not provide you a job, you do not need to make loan payments.
How much it will cost?
Down payment of 10 000 EUR before the start of program.
Total cost for upgrade to B737CL Captain Line training is 20 000 Eur.
Screening costs 500 EUR
You get a salary of 2000 EUR
What are entry requirements?
Minimum of 2000 hours on type (B737)
Minimum of 5000 total hours
Last flight on type (B737) not more than 6 months before company conversion course
Are you interested and meet the requirements? APPLY NOW!
To apply to the Program, you need to send following documents to
[email protected]
Curriculum Vitae
Copy of passport
Copy Valid Class 1 Medical Certificate
Copy of CPL or ATPL licenses
Copy of English level 4 according to ICAO requirements
Certificate regarding criminal records
LPC/OPC certificates
Logbook (last 5 pages)"
nostep
5th Apr 2013, 15:02
Sounds like Lion Air Indonesia to me
GlueBall
5th Apr 2013, 16:48
Life is tough, but it's tougher if you're stupid. :ooh:
Flappo
5th Apr 2013, 16:52
The next P2F step is coming.....
dcoded
5th Apr 2013, 17:17
Hahaha...
Sounds very much like the contract that was "offered" for P2F Cadets via AviationCV...
captjns
6th Apr 2013, 06:58
Stupid is, stupid does. At the end of the day, participants of such schemes deserve what the get.... A big fat donut, bagel, zilch, nada.:ok::D
Hmmm how does that saying go??? Oh yeah.... "tuition comes at a high price":{
There should be a 'have you ever participated in p2f' box in every pilot job application.
captplaystation
6th Apr 2013, 19:47
dcoded, yep, you got it in one.
This is a likely scenario as it would open a rare opportunity to get upgraded. I work in an environment where there are no upgrades, because they just don't happen.
Almost every airline in the world which hires DECs has one identical requirement these days: a minimum of 500 hours in command o n t y p e. This renders any number of hours as a First Officer and even command hours on another type completely useless. As far as I know this requirement is not based on any law, it just saves training costs. Simply put, this is a discrimination which is unheard of. Alas it is not on the "agenda" of the ALPAs to change this situation. That leaves me with a prospect of exactly zero until I retire. And it supports the notion maybe every business has, but the aviation business has it in a very special way: it's not about what you can, what you know or what your experience is. It's just about whom you know!
Now you can blame the victim.
lederhosen
7th Apr 2013, 12:52
Once you have your 500 hours there is a distinct possibility the only job available will be a summer contract with no flying in winter. It may suit some. But you could end earning less overall than an FO on a fulltime contract! It will sadly probably take some serious accidents for anything to change. But realistically only legislation by the authorities is going to stop this race to the bottom. Appealing to airlines and pilots not to go down the pay to fly route is in all likelyhood not going to work.
"...Oh Lord won´t you buy me a Captain upgrade....
My friends all drive Boeings seated on the left......."
:ok::ok::ok:Dcoed...you're right!!!
It's not sound like..its Aviationcv.:mad:
No coment!
It's not sound like..its Aviationcv.
No coment!
Indeed it is; just received an e-mail flyer to this effect.
captplaystation
7th Apr 2013, 21:10
Me too. . . . . I resisted replying to enquire if 14,000hr in Command (on type) might get me a discount. . . maybe I should. :hmm:
I appear to have ended up on the list courtesy of applying to a dodgy Lithuanian charter company when I was floating around between contracts (top marks at least for networking, had to fend off several phone calls extolling the virtues of ME contracts from them last week too ) :=
dcoded
7th Apr 2013, 21:58
captplaystation:
Educated guess, can I have the price money now please? :}
haha.. Please call and ask IF you could have a discount :}
Post the reply here
gtseraf
7th Apr 2013, 22:00
One cannot merely buy a command, it has to be EARNED!!!!
We are turning our profession into a joke. Now the p2f scheme has been extended to commands. So the suckers/impatient ones who bought into the p2f as F/O's (accepting reduced packages and thus affecting pay) will do the same for the command side.
Management must be rolling on the floor laughing at our gullibility. Soon they will have a workforce of pilot swilling to PAY to "work" for them.
Before any sad child starts crying about the lack of opportunities out there, well, TOUGHEN UP!!!
When I entered the industry 30 years ago, there were even less opportunities. We were aware of this but took our chances, knowing that if we did the hard yards we had a good shot at a VERY good career.
Now people are prepared to fast track this but it comes at a price. We are selling out our true value and we will be regretting this in the not too distant future.
Rant over
One cannot merely buy a command, it has to be EARNED!!!!
We are turning our profession into a joke. Now the p2f scheme has been extended to commands. So the suckers/impatient ones who bought into the p2f as F/O's (accepting reduced packages and thus affecting pay) will do the same for the command side.
Management must be rolling on the floor laughing at our gullibility. Soon they will have a workforce of pilot swilling to PAY to "work" for them.
Before any sad child starts crying about the lack of opportunities out there, well, TOUGHEN UP!!!
When I entered the industry 30 years ago, there were even less opportunities. We were aware of this but took our chances, knowing that if we did the hard yards we had a good shot at a VERY good career.
Now people are prepared to fast track this but it comes at a price. We are selling out our true value and we will be regretting this in the not too distant future.
Rant over
+1
This is a likely scenario as it would open a rare opportunity to get upgraded. I work in an environment where there are no upgrades, because they just don't happen.
Almost every airline in the world which hires DECs has one identical requirement these days: a minimum of 500 hours in command o n t y p e. This renders any number of hours as a First Officer and even command hours on another type completely useless. As far as I know this requirement is not based on any law, it just saves training costs. Simply put, this is a discrimination which is unheard of. Alas it is not on the "agenda" of the ALPAs to change this situation. That leaves me with a prospect of exactly zero until I retire. And it supports the notion maybe every business has, but the aviation business has it in a very special way: it's not about what you can, what you know or what your experience is. It's just about whom you know!
Now you can blame the victim.
The upgrades might not happen right now, but riddle me this, There is only a finite number of captains out there who are going to take DEC's. At some point, and I'd wager not in the too distant future, the parasite airlines that poach "trained captains" will have to start manning up and train their own captains. So so long as there are no P2F idiots then surely you must get your turn.
You don't have to be worried - or at least not more than earlier:
Certain countries always prioritized monetarian and/or non-monetarian benefits over merits in aviation. There is no difference for safety when a not able FO is promoted because of good relations, bribe money, direct pressure or when he is paying for it.
It is always advisable not to board an aircraft where these structures are prevalent, because it not only influences pilot training but also all other decisions inside of the airline.
Simple decision: avoid these airlines.
Dani
Firestorm
8th Apr 2013, 09:52
Dani, quite right. The problem is that the travelling public who have far more influence over the airlines than the pilots do have no knowledge of these 'training opportunities', and the press aren't interested.
I remember an old crusty training captain telling me one day...
When I had 50 hours I knew everything.
When I had 500 hours I thought I knew everything.
At 5000 hours I knew I knew nothing.
We are professionals at what we do and carry a big responsibility.
Please hang this over every crew room door and every training centre door, especially those entering the holy ground of the simulators. Oh, and the class rooms used for command upgrade courses.