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Nostradamus
25th Apr 2002, 15:46
At the risk of being shouted down, I was wondering if anybody had any sensible solution, to the problem posed by not being able to discuss and debate, the topics which are banned.


I can see the reasoning behind the rule, as these are sensitive subjects, and I have no doubt that it could and probably would at times get personal.

Take TGs poll today, very topical the local elections, a gauge to the people of britain as to how our goverment are percieved to be doing. I dont really just want to tick a box, I want to tell TG that I think blaire has got it all wrong and why?


Perhaps another box of JB could be opened, where if you are going to get the HUMP dont go in and look around. perhaps we could subscribe to it, I was told this had been tried before, well with the numbers swelling, perhaps it is time to consider it again.


AS for religion,thats a tough one, but I would of welcomed a sensible discussion on why all the cardinals had been summoned to rome,and is their a solution?

In IM ESPERTO's piece of today, TOWERDOG makes a reference to a *******, I would like to discuss with him what he means,
is he talking about a sikh or an arab?is it offensive?

Send Clowns
25th Apr 2002, 16:08
My preferred way is to try to be grown up and not take offense at others' different views, and accept that even those with whom we have diferences will agree on many points. For example I would disagree with Huggy and TG on a lot of points, and those points have been debated, sometimes hotly, here. We do however agree on many other points and back each other in other debates, and I will certainly buy Huggy a beer at Gatwick (I think he is going) and would very much like to meet TG for a drink.

I try not to take any of it personnally, and hope that when my debate is robust the other party takes it as intended, which is not to be offensive.

Anyway the warning has actually gone, perhaps due to the moderation of JB

Nostradamus
25th Apr 2002, 16:17
SEND CLOWNS

I absolutely agree with all you say, no matter how heated, their is always the time when you agree with eachother.

Foss
25th Apr 2002, 17:26
Wouldn't mind a bit of political..er..debate.
Usually polishes up the old typing skills quite quickly.
Think what fun we could have talking about Blair's attitude to Le Pen compared to Gerry Adams..eh, eh could be a fight.
:D

Nostradamus
25th Apr 2002, 17:55
Absolutely FOSS

JudyTTexas
25th Apr 2002, 18:55
Good points...and has been my thoughts for quite some time.

Politics and Religion are a part of life. Everyone has their own thoughts, ideas and experiences. I feel getting past individuals mettled emotions makes way for constructive opinions.

It's good training ground not as much about the context, but about the conduct. There are those I have disagreed with, but we hold a mutual respect.

...Bring back the debates! :D

HugMonster
25th Apr 2002, 18:58
Blimey, SC, and there I was thinking the best way to get a drink out of a Tory was to stick your fingers down his throat! ;)

I would gladly accept. However, I don't know if I shall be able to make it, circumstances and finances being what they are.

Another time, perhaps, if I may?

Nostradamus
25th Apr 2002, 19:02
HUGGY

Dear friend, your not a LEFTIE are you?

nosefirsteverytime
25th Apr 2002, 19:21
Well, methinks the last word on this goes to the luvvverly flaps40!

Care to comment falps?

Nostradamus
25th Apr 2002, 19:25
NOSEFIRST


Why do you think that?

nosefirsteverytime
25th Apr 2002, 19:29
Well, she IS the moderator, after all! :D :D :D

Nostradamus
25th Apr 2002, 19:35
What is your point, nosefirst have you seen anything YOU dont like?

nosefirsteverytime
25th Apr 2002, 19:40
:eek:

No no no noooooooo, I mean, she's the one to ask aboot the rules, as she IS the deputy big cahuna (the biggest of course being the Great Dan)

Tartan Gannet
25th Apr 2002, 23:57
Huggy, if you can get that fat ar%e of yours down here ILL buy the drinks! Find a mutually convenient time and place and Im sure SC could also turn up. Id even be prepared to go to Marlow, not far from here and buy U_R that famous pint I owe him!

RSVP HM ASAP! TG :) :) :)

HugMonster
26th Apr 2002, 01:05
I used to visit a pub in Marlow when I lived in Windsor - can't remember the name of it, top of the street leading up from the bridge, on a 3-way corner... What are people doing this weekend?

flapsforty
26th Apr 2002, 11:15
The 2 years I've been here I have seen the political-debate thing behave like a sinus-curve.
It starts off carefully.
A slightly political thread gets started by an audacious poster.
It gets allowed by the powers that be.
Posters enjoy the battle of wits and opinions, and join in enthusiastically.

More overtly political threads start up.
Passions get inflamed, some brilliant rapier thrusts are exchanged, some fascinating arguments are brough to the fore.
People get dug into the trenches, amd a few f*ckwits forget that the rules of common decency apply on JB as well.
Posts get more bitter and less enjoyable to read.
Personal attacks become more frequent and more viscious in tone.
The more intelligent try to save the day by appealing to all parties for self moderation.
Their voices are headed by the majority.
A select group of idiots carries on being omniversally offensive.
CApt PPRuNe charges in on his white stallion, guns blazing.

2 scenario's are then possible. :D
1) Fire & brimstone rain down from above & do the trick, peace is restored, and prruners sharpen their wits by referring to sex, politics and religion in the most oblique of fashions. True brilliance is shown once again.

2) The Thunder Speech has only a temporary effect and the downwards spiral continues.
Capt PPRuNe gets royally p!ssed off and closes down Jet Blast for a couple of weeks. :eek:
JBrats like myself suffer from acute withdrawal symptoms and are willing to promise anything to get the place re-opened.

Which eventually happens and then the whole cycle starts all over agin.

I reckon we are at present nearing the top of the sinus curve.
And that a thread like this will only hasten the end by forcing the issue out in the open and inspiring posts like the one right above mine.................

The way I see it Nostradamus, is that by starting this thread and leaving it in place, you are achieving the exact opposite of your stated aim.
But that's only my two euro cents' worth

Nostradamus
26th Apr 2002, 12:00
FLAPSFORTY


By STARTING this thread, I meant only to see if their is not a solution to the problem of censorship. as you can see their are at least two others who would welcome sensible debate.

The whole world revolves around politics, and to a degree religion. with the greatest of respect to others, and to you flaps it is very difficult to avoid these subjects in daily life.

The recent thread on Bush sabre ETC... went through the spectrum, but was very interesting. TGs bomber command excellent, but as you can see it has raised hackles, and got nasty.

My thread was to see if their between us is an answer NOT,as you claim, to start a mud slinging contest. It is plain that people are frustrated, you log on to JB and the threads are sometimes,
unbelievable. without wanting to hurt anyones feelings (genuinly)
what are all these polls about? I ask you Adults are being asked to click a box on whether they prefer this 80s tv show over that one , or a cat over a dog,or a cartoon over another cartoon, what is going on?

You are probably right and the poster above you is going to do a lot of damage. so tell me flaps is their an answer or is it back to the I PREFER BOXER SHORTS TO Y FRONTS senario?

PPRuNe Radar
26th Apr 2002, 12:15
I guess the answer to the polls part is the one which is the easiest to solve.

If people didn't respond then they would soon drop off the front page and disappear. But being human nature, there will always be someone who wants to put their opinion across, or have the last word. I guess whether we decide to take part in a poll or not is really a personal decision.

What is one JB inmates trivia probably means the whole world to someone else.

flapsforty
26th Apr 2002, 12:38
Nostradamus,
I do not think that you are trying to start a mud slinging contest.
I fully understand that your question is genuine, it's one that I have frequently asked myself in te past in fact.
Perhaps If you had seen the mail I sent you before you posted this latest, the mud slinging misunderstanding might have been avoided. ;)

As far as I'm concerend, and I am of course not the sole judge here, the answer lies in my post a few ones up from this one.
Please read it again with an open mind and a realisation of my best intentions in promoting lively debate here, preserving the spirit of JB and providing a haven for a very large variety of subjects.

An almost free for all will inevitably attract excesses which would destroy the whole if not checked in time. That's my job here.

DeepC
26th Apr 2002, 13:50
The Politics and religion threads are easily the most interesting threads and bring out the wealth of knowledge JB posters have. It also brings out the very worst in peoples 'tunnel vision' views. A verbal 'attack' on a person's belief is NOT an attack on the person. The fact that other people take it personally is the reason that the subjects are close to the line.

No-one has to post or read anything on the net. If people can't handle a bit of controversy then they really should think twice on clicking the JB forum button.

Have a standard warning that Danny or the moderators can post at any time so that it takes little time to post a 'yellow' card. Hopefully that will make people see sense.

JudyTTexas
26th Apr 2002, 19:22
Well said DeepC. I have often wondered why people take things so personally when in fact all they have to do is not read.

I've seen personal attacks go rampant on various topics. In my opinion, these are individuals who make a last ditch effort
to oppose an opinion by degrading the poster. Maybe
keep it in perspective...it's not about the messenger but about
the message.

If you can't stand the heat, get out of the kitchen...

bugg smasher
26th Apr 2002, 22:15
Yes indeed Judy, perhaps the Japanese have got it right in their handle-less tea cups; if itís too hot to hold, itís too hot to drink.

In the closing down of the Sabre-Rattling thread, I see an ominous stifling of opinion here, a cowardly attempt to box JB back into the cozy confines of the quaint few. The mere fact that Tricky, perplexingly, has lost the plot should not be sufficient reason to do so. I donít know how other posters feel, but the breadth and scope of that thread was truly magnificent in its proportions, a valiant and intelligent attempt to address the most pressing issues of our day, and an eye-opening journey of learning for all concerned. I once considered Capt Pprune just a f+ckwit fluf driver until I read his impassioned defense of the Israeli position. How much blood, sweat and tears went into that post? I am impressed to the point where my views have changed, you never know who youíre talking to on this forum. Charlie Papa Fyne, I salute you Sir; for Godís sake, for the sake of us all, set us free once more.

The banning of Moritz is another worry. It is well known that there was no love lost between Flaps and Moritz, I have the strongest impression that a personal vendetta has been successfully consummated here. (In the absence of a rebuttal Flaps, I rest my case dear Lady.)

Being on a long trip presently, I have missed much of what has transpired in the last few days. I will, however, be arriving in Jeddah sometime next week (hopefully in the vicinity of the airport), and on the drive into the city, fully expect to see Paterbrat astride a noble she-camel in all of his Lawrence festoonery, gazing pensively out over the ancient and inscrutable wisdom of the sands. (No need to take Aqaba PB, itís already been done.)

Peace my friends, the universe unfolds as it must.

Wino
27th Apr 2002, 04:47
I too miss the sabre rattling post, but we will be returning to some of the sub threads shortly.

As it turns out the Israelis filmed the Entire battle of Jenin from the air. ONce they are exonerated we will be taking up the topic again <G>

In the meantime I am thinking of a thread to continue the Japanese discussion.


Cheers
Wino

Kermit 180
27th Apr 2002, 12:39
Politics, religion, complete bollox, moderation, bans, polls, opinions, excuses, reasoning..... life goes on folks, get out there and enjoy it!

Kermie

Nostradamus
27th Apr 2002, 12:49
KERMIT


What are you saying please elaborate?

Kermit 180
27th Apr 2002, 13:00
Nostradamus matey, check yer crystal ball! ;)

Just kidding. What I meant was, lets get down to some serious jet blasting!

Kerms

Nostradamus
27th Apr 2002, 13:07
KERMIE


ARE you Agreeing with me then? that it is difficult to JET BLAST,
when the option's appear to be which cartoon does one prefer?



About my cystal ball ...........TAMBURLAINE in the 3.25 at leicester,
wins by two lengths this afternoon!!!!

swashplate
27th Apr 2002, 13:11
I have to say that I must take issue with those peeps who have referred to JB as some sort of "mutual self-appreciation society".....

I registered on this board in Aug 2000 having read the 'AshBash' article in 'Pilot' mag, but only discovered JB about Jan 2001....

At that time a certain O_C_B was certainly putting the cat among the pigeons!!!!! :eek:

But despite the trollers, it seems that peeps on here who have actually met at bashes can still have pretty spirited debates. Even those who fall out seem to calm down after a while and moderate thier views. But I've never had the impression of a "mutual self-appreciation society"..... :rolleyes:

I can't claim to have any great intellect here, but it pretty soon became clear to me that MS was a wind up, so I didn't respond to his posts, until he annoyed the excellent Huggy to point of leaving JB... :mad:

So where do we go from here?

Maybe P&R threads should be allowed, but on the strict understanding that Flaps can lock 'em at any time as soon as peeps get out of line?

Maybe others have better ideas, but thats just my 2 euro's worth..............

Skytrucker87
27th Apr 2002, 13:31
JB is generally assumed to be mainly concerned with light hearted banter. It is surely possible to deal with political or religious topics without offending the sensibilities of either of the protagonists. If a posting is deeply offensive, it probably is outside the above mentioned parameters and should not be on JB anyway.

Falps, you have my undying support and admiration (crawl, grovel):rolleyes:

Nostradamus
27th Apr 2002, 13:34
SWASHPLATE


I think your spot on, I also think that before long their will be a big division between at least two sides.

On the one hand you will have the straight down the middle mob,
who flinch at the slightest bit of unearthy banter, and on the other hand you get the people with a more liberal outlook on life, who are happy to "mix it up a little", I still believe that an individual is capable of knowing where the line is.
In MSs case I personaly think that toward's the end of his "career" on JB that he became a TARGET for the STR8 and narrows, and whatever he posted was doomed to fail.

PaperTiger
27th Apr 2002, 17:45
"It is surely possible to deal with political or religious topics without offending the sensibilities of either of the protagonists. "

Not for very long. People take these things way too seriously, particularly those who initate them. And people who get serious in JB are likely to get skewered. Which makes them mad. Which leads to personal attacks. Which leads to... you know.

Tartan Gannet
28th Apr 2002, 09:18
Firstly, a Marlow Mini-Bash? Why not? It will have to wait till I am released from my bonds at a certain Avionics business w.e.f Friday 3rd May. Thereafter Im on holiday with the Senior Gannet but when I am back I will be only too pleased to meet up at a mutually convenient time with U_R, Huggy, SC and any other Jet Blaster who is within the length of his cable tow, after all, I will have time on my hands for a bit during my 4 month furlough, so it can be a weekday. Otherwise, why not meet up at LHR if more convenient. Please get back to me.

Now on the more serious matter of Political and Religious threads. I welcomed the appointment of a Moderator for JB with open arms as this, as I guessed it would, has unlocked the ban on P&R threads. Let us post such threads and if they get too heated, the Moderator can step in and either, edit out the offensive posting or part thereof, ban the poster, or even close or delete that thread. People will soon get the message. As with most matters in life, "Self Regulation" is a non runner. Rules, with sanctions to enforce them, are needed in any well ordered society.

Now as has been said, Politics and Religion are the stuff of life and make for the most interesting discussions.

I must also say that I have learned a great deal from the various controversial threads on JB and people I used to consider as ememies, simply because they attacked my views, I have come to consider as friends, (HM, U_R, Davaar, to name but three).

So , as long as Flaps can stand the strain, (and if she ever wants Id be happy to step in), let us have the controversial threads on Politics and Religion, well knowing that the Moderator is riding shotgun.

GladHeAteHer
28th Apr 2002, 09:48
Are you saying that MS was bulldozed into oblivion?

virgin
29th Apr 2002, 20:32
TG stepping in to help as Moderator?
Now that's a thought to conjure with.
God help any of those lefty liberal types. :D :D