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langleybaston
3rd Apr 2013, 15:47
Please does anyone remember the near-end-of-course despatching of slack handfuls of Dominies from Finningley to Gib? Always a Friday.

I certainly do, because it was always stressful for a mere chairbound weather man, in that Obs were thin over the Iberian coast, TAFs were rubbish, satellite cover of fog/ low St was unreliable, Spain was a no-no for Divs, and N Africa a bit dubious.

Radiating icy-calm, I would brief OCOps/Flying with great confidence. Radiating icy-calm, he would promise to have my guts for garters if they came unstuck. I briefed several cancellations, all subsequently justified, very fortunately.

The ulcers flared up during that tour.

Wrathmonk
3rd Apr 2013, 16:00
In all my trips from Finningley if the lunch time / over night / weekend stop was somewhere decent then we always launched on the mere promise of the much fabled 1000 Zulu clearance.:ok:

langleybaston
3rd Apr 2013, 16:16
that's a decent sized impi!

Pontius Navigator
3rd Apr 2013, 16:30
Yes, but it was from Stradishall. Without checking my log book, we may have staged through St Mawgan one way or the other. We had lunch on the wing at Porto before arriving in Gib.

The previous time had been a Varsity when we overflew Spain. The weather was as you said so we delayed a few hours. I remember briefing the pilots on RW 27 only to be told it was 26. I corrected them saying it had just been updated with new variation.

I then waited 40 years for another opportunity. It came at Coningsby pre-Typhoon. The variation changed but they couldn't afford to change the numbers at the time. :)

Tankertrashnav
3rd Apr 2013, 16:44
Remember my trip to Gib from Strad very well. We didn't need the St Mawgan stopover so went direct to Porto then Gib. Coming back we went via Nice then airways up through France. Great weekend - visit to the casino on Saturday night and a trip round the caverns in the rock on Sunday. The border was closed at that time (1970) and we all went and had a laugh at the Fred Karno's army style of Spanish soldiers who came and performed a rag-tag ceremony at the frontier post every evening. Happy days. Amazing that those Dominies have only finally been withdrawn in the last year or so.

ExAscoteer
3rd Apr 2013, 16:48
In my time on the mighty Dom the Gib ranger had all but come to an end, although 45 Sqn (METS) still went routing both ways via Porto.

I did take a Dom to Gib to act as traffic for the Civie air trafficers training up on the PAR prior to handover from the RAF although, strangely enough, we routed via Monte Real outbound. That was in 95 and we flew direct Monte Real, direct Gib.

johnfairr
3rd Apr 2013, 16:54
I did two trips to Gib when I was at Finningley. Once on basic Nav Training and once on the Nav Refresher course a year or so later. "Mac" was the met man in those days and I don't recall any problems.

Quick Friday flit to Lyneham to top up with fuel, then lunch at Oporto and airways to Gib. Coming back it was into Istres, where the French were drinking wine in the aircrew-feeder, then straight back in airways to Finningley on the Monday.

Seem to recall we used Saccone & Speed (?) for the duty-frees, all handled by a very accommodating co-pilot, then, as it was the last ride in the Domini on the course, we lounged around waiting for our postings . . . . 40 years ago!! :\:\:\

friendlypelican 2
3rd Apr 2013, 17:41
Ah! The delights of the Dominie.
My first overseas as a stude was to Malta via Nice in January '67 with M.Pilots Chappell and Coulbeck. I remember taking off in snow and I'm sure we didn't give proper cognisence to surface contamination! Looking back in the logbook I see that twice that month we did Strad - Strad night trips lasting 3:30hrs. I can't remember how much div fuel we carried, but it must have been just fumes!
Subsequently on 2 refresher courses and also a tour at Finningley (Cse Cdr 267) it was always to Gib via St Mawgan and also using Porto/Monte Real/Tancos.
Great fun and the Dom soldiered on much longer than ever expected.

Pontius Navigator
3rd Apr 2013, 18:05
Seem to recall we used Saccone & Speed (?) for the duty-frees,

Could be, they were certainly in Malta and my old man referred to them in the 50s. Or could it have been Captain Corunna's?

MG
3rd Apr 2013, 18:08
I seem to remember that the Gib run was only for the multi guys. Those of us destined for FJ (on LLTS) got a trip to Germany, such as Bitburg, in my case.

Sandy Parts
3rd Apr 2013, 18:11
not quite Gib but nice weekend in Furstenfeldbruck (very near Munich...:)) - cheers Dominie and AEELS!:ok:

Union Jack
3rd Apr 2013, 18:27
Seem to recall we used Saccone & Speed (?) for the duty-frees

You rang? Still very much at your service - Saccone & Speed (Gibraltar) Group of Companies - Saccone & Speed (Gibraltar) Limited (http://www.sacconeandspeedgibraltar.gi/sacconeandspeed.html) which we always knew as "Sack-One and Velocity"

Jack

reynoldsno1
3rd Apr 2013, 23:44
Thankfully I went to Malta for the weekend, with lunch stops in Nice on both legs. Lovely aircraft, the Domine.
I subsequently got posted to Malta for 4 years :{ - spent a lot of time to/from Gibraltar thereafter :cool:

Barksdale Boy
3rd Apr 2013, 23:49
friendlypelican2

You must have been on 85 Course. My log book shows Strad to Luqa via Istres and return via Nice in December 66 with Flt Lts Horner and Richardson in XS 739. I seem to remember that Saccone and Speed looked after our duty-free needs; also that we got a couple of extra days in Malta because of headwinds over France. Will never forget The Gyppo Queen.

ExAscoteer
4th Apr 2013, 00:05
I took a Dom (XS733 Q) via Nice to Malta in late 96.

IIRC it was the proving trip for the (forthcoming) airshow and we were the first RAF aircraft back into Malta since Mintoff threw us out for the second time.

Barksdale Boy, XS739 (F) was the first black and white Dominie (and one of the nicest in the fleet to fly) after we got the avionics upgrade, compete with a Playboy Bunny either side of the fin (and by the crew door). I took her to RIAT 97 where she got quite a lot of attention!

There was a plan on 55 Sqn to have all our post upgrade aircraft with logos pertaining to the Black and White scheme, eg a Blue Star (Newcastle Brown Ale), 2 Terrier dogs (Black and White Whisky).

Sadly the Staish and OC Ops at the time were C words with very active 'Fun Detectors' so our nefarious plan came to naught. :(

Duplo
4th Apr 2013, 18:26
I flew to Gib in a JP5, only a single DME for nav, did anyone else do this out of interest?

Captain Radar....
4th Apr 2013, 18:58
not quite Gib but nice weekend in Furstenfeldbruck (very near Munich...

We did that....................for some reason the trip was in October......;)

Whopity
4th Apr 2013, 20:16
There are 4 Ex RAF Dominies sat at Kemble, now on the N register
XS730 - N19UG (http://img.planespotters.net/photo/217000/original/N19UG-Private-_PlanespottersNet_217698.jpg)
XS728 - N19CU (http://img.planespotters.net/photo/217000/original/N19CU-Private-_PlanespottersNet_217624.jpg)
XS731 - N19XY (http://img.planespotters.net/photo/216000/original/N19XY-Private-_PlanespottersNet_216060.jpg)
XS737 - N19EK (http://img.planespotters.net/photo/217000/original/N19EK-Private-_PlanespottersNet_217699.jpg)

Maxibon
4th Apr 2013, 20:30
I went to Bruggen for my last LLTS trip with Matt Clark. I'm pretty ashamed to say that I was rather hungover from a night out in 7th Heaven in Donny. Still, passed the trip and got enough ciggies to keep me going for a couple of weeks!

Gulfstreamaviator
5th Apr 2013, 10:36
I used to fly 1a, and 3b models.

gld

clicker
5th Apr 2013, 11:01
Back in 1976 I was a civvie with the cadets and did a nav course at Finningley.

During the week there was a series of astro fix flights and they allowed us to go along. I ended up on XS729 (G) and recall at the end we did a practice emergency descent back into Finningley. Great way to end a three hour flight. Was that normal for that flight or was I lucky to get that?

Do remember at briefing we were told to keep to the timings otherwise it meant the poor studes at the back would need to recalculate all their start shoot figures from the beginning.

threeputt
5th Apr 2013, 11:19
Looking through one of my log books and saw that I only went to Gib once and that was on the Staff Nav course. 13 Jun 1980 airways to Nice, night stop, very civilised. Next day, Low drift gyro into Gib using sun shots for MPP fixes! not civilised at all, compasses set 90 deg off etc; very confusing for an ex V-Force Nav Rad. Still Gib was great.

3P:ok:

PS. Just noticed an entry in book 1 where I forgot to put the ac number in; anyone got the number for "J"?

clicker
5th Apr 2013, 11:27
From a database I have "J" was XS731.

Whopity
5th Apr 2013, 11:36
Never went to Gib, Malta twice and Laarbruch once. Did Istres Finningley in 1h.40 at FL200 in XS727 (May 71) Took off 3 in the stream and landed first. Flew at MMO all the way about 0.75 I seem to recall. There was a Wg Cdr at Strad who barrel rolled one in 68!

And here is 731 now!
http://img.planespotters.net/photo/216000/original/N19XY-Private-_PlanespottersNet_216060.jpg

Pontius Navigator
5th Apr 2013, 12:53
During the week there was a series of astro fix flights and they allowed us to go along. I ended up on XS729 (G) and recall at the end we did a practice emergency descent back into Finningley. Great way to end a three hour flight. Was that normal for that flight or was I lucky to get that?

If it was a Nav Training sortie each exercise sortie would have a number of different evolutions to both introduce a particular technique or to create pressure on the stude.

I am not sure, but if you hade been on an astro flight that suggests an ANTS sortie rather than BNTS if that was the division in 1976. Certainly by 1987 BNTS did not do astro.

So to answer your question, a practice emergency descent would have been normal for that sortie profile and not all sorties.

ExAscoteer
5th Apr 2013, 13:32
Or was it just a Pole Hill recovery?

Quite often we would do high speed descents at the end of a night astro sortie purely to relieve the sheer bloody boredom of the previous 2-3 hrs.


Oh, and possibly because our feet were frozen up front. :)

Drift Sight
5th Apr 2013, 13:40
friendlypelican 2 - Like you my first overseas trip as a stude was Malta via Nice Jan 67 but I took the slower route in a Varsity. Yes there was snow when we left and even more on return ending in a grade one diversion to Leeming.

threeputt
5th Apr 2013, 14:00
Thanks very much.

3P:ok:

langleybaston
5th Apr 2013, 14:14
QUOTE: There was a Wg Cdr at Strad who barrel rolled one in 68!

Yes yes, I heard that story, and that he got the bum's rush when the studes spragged on him? But my recollection is that it was later, more like early 70s?

langleybaston
5th Apr 2013, 15:59
Donny Market?

taxydual
5th Apr 2013, 20:48
Langley

Doncaster Market.

The original den of thieves (before Ebay).

My one and only role in a Courts Martial involved Doncaster Market, a PTI from Finningley, some canoes and an inventory set of letters that he forgot to rub off.

Talk about sh*tting on your own doorstep!

taxydual
5th Apr 2013, 20:59
Back to Doms

Am I right in remembering a Dom declaring a Mayday into Nice (ex Luqa) with the Captain, very seriously ill, leaving the the Pilots Assistant (a MAeOp) to do the subsequent approach and landing?

Mal Drop
5th Apr 2013, 21:39
Fond memories of the Gib weekend at the end of ANTs and a gentle introduction to the future ASCOT way of nightstops.

tommee_hawk
5th Apr 2013, 23:19
I did many, many overseas trips in the Dom, many to Germany for memorable LLTS weekend landaways. It was always a much quieter jet on the Monday RTB, full of BX beer, bikes and barbeques. Never went to Gib with them tho.

Did a Finningley - Istres- Gib for a Gib airshow as one of a pair of Hawks - we were over Biggin Hill when French ATC relayed to ask what was our max cruising level? When we said we could do FL 470, London ATC cleared us up and direct Istres... lovely aeroplane!

clicker
6th Apr 2013, 01:13
Thanks PN,

Seem to recall the reason for the descent like that was to go over an airway that routed off the NEW VOR.

I can only guess that perhaps the studes still needed the height for a final astro fix somewhere near the airway so they did the descent after clearing the southern boundary and saved a lot of fafing about that a normal approach would need.

Trouble is my memory failes me and I didnt put the reason into my pax log book.

Did enjoy it though and certainly made the ears pop. Now I mention that I now recall we all had an ear inspection to make sure they did clear so it was planned. One guy failed that and didnt fly. He was a little miffed to say the least.

clicker
6th Apr 2013, 01:21
ExAscoteer,

Can't remember the exact routing but almost certain we went down the the West Country first worked our way up north before coming back southwards again.

I was just getting interested in comms and we worked quite a few ICF's even at that time of night (1955-2255Z in March). I was also seating by a HF set and so got given the task of monitoring the HF volmet (seat by the left door iirc)

Mk 1
6th Apr 2013, 04:41
Had heard of a Dominie, but didn't know a lot about it so I googled and found this snippet:

On 7 August 1988, a BAe-125 owned by the Botswana Government was carrying the President of Botswana, Quett Masire, and his staff to a meeting in Luanda. An Angolan MiG-23 pilot fired two R-60 (AA-8) missiles at the plane. One missile hit the no. 2 engine, causing it to fall off the aircraft. The second missile then hit the falling engine. The crew was able to make a successful emergency landing on a bush strip at Cutio Bie.[14][citation needed]

Try doing that in your average FJ!

from wiki.

BANANASBANANAS
6th Apr 2013, 05:38
27/09/91 XS731 to Gibraltar for the air display. Supposed to be a static but a few displays pulled out at last minute so could we oblige? A few laps around the rock, fly past with landing lights on, fly past clean, fly past dirty was about all we could manage I think. RAF Falcons were in fine form and we 'promoted' an NCO in their number (lent him my F/L rank braid) so he could come back to the OM for post display festivities. A great night was subsequently had by all and to this day, when I think of Gib I start humming 'The Boxer' by Simon and Garfunkel - you had to be there! Happy days:ok:

howiehowie93
6th Apr 2013, 14:22
Greetings,

I worked in Gib for three years on the Station Flight seeing all these Peeps in & out in the Doms, Jetstreams, Buccs, Harrier, Jags, Tonkas & Nimrods too.:ok:

I always found it amazing the places (& quantity!) of golf clubs, luggage and duty Free's that could be stashed around these aircraft. :D


Reagards
H

langleybaston
6th Apr 2013, 16:20
I have just stumbled on the allied thread:

http://www.pprune.org/military-aircrew/440452-dom-war-stories.html

and intrigued to find the barrel-rolling Wing Commander again featured, much as I had heard.

Re. the left glove labelled right [and v-v] I had a colleague who reached high office as a Metman despite being colour-blind. Not good when trying to draw red warm fronts, blue cold'uns, and purple occlusions.

So he always inscribed his officially provided crayons RED, BLUE PURPLE etc. This worked well until someone got at the crayons while he was having a pee.

Did not go down well in Central Forecasting Office.

Incidentally we always reckoned that the official crayons had been free-fall dropped at Arnhem, so broken were they internally. That para. who gets killed in A Bridge Too Far retrieving a canister of red berets was right next to the one with the crayons.