Qantas Sydney Redundancies Called Off... What about Avalon??

[cvrurass]

All seems to have gone quiet now that Sydney is safe. What about our brothers at Avalon? Not even an information meeting from any union.

[ALAEA Fed Sec]

ALAEA is taking Forstaff to FWA on an unfair dismissal basis for those who have been outed.

The solution that worked for Syd would not work at Avalon because Qantas are not feeding any work post a forced leave program.

[Jethro Gibbs]

ALAEA is taking Forstaff to FWA on an unfair dismissal basis for those who have
been outed.
Unless they cancelled there membership when made CR as it was unlikely they would ever work in the industry again which they did well before the UFD notice came out so does that not mean they are not represented in the FWA case at all ?

[ALAEA Fed Sec]

If a member of ours is made redundant they no longer pay fees. The fees they did pay covers the period that they were employed and anything adverse that happened to them during that period including being made redundant.

I've insructed Brad to contact all of our members who were tapped by Forstaff so we can at least try to get their jobs back. I signed a cost agreement yesterday with our law firm and we will be spending at least $20,000 on it plus supplying our own supporting solicitor.

[Jethro Gibbs]

Thanks for sorting that out as quite a few had been told that was not the case .

[cvrurass]

When are information/progress meetings about FWA, LOFO ect planned for Avalon?

[ALAEA Fed Sec]

I'm not sure if any new information could be presented at meetings. I think you guys want a meeting though. I will email Brad Stewart and get him to plan some.

[Jethro Gibbs]

Doesn't seem to be any progress on any of the above issues .

[ALAEA Fed Sec]

Maybe you should have attended the meeting.

[BrissySparkyCoit]

Meetings are for members only, how could he attend?

[Jethro Gibbs]

Avalon CR,

After a lavish Qantas dinner in Sydney Last night for all the sycophants , hangers on and paid ambassadors people given CR at Avalon in what has to be the final insult have received a letter from Qantas thanking them for there hard work and telling them what a hard decision it has been to make them redundant.

[Ngineer]

After a lavish Qantas dinner in Sydney Last night for all the ....

Sad but true. Whilst some throw money around on lavish parties and overdone hype, other people's lives are being destroyed in misdirected penny pinching.

Seems like a company completely insensitive to the families involved whilst publicly and carelessly throwing money around entertaining those that they consider important enough.

Maybe they could have at least invited some of those who are now redundant, if they had enough nerve to that is.

[Sunfish]

The Qantas hangar party last week was not for sycophants, it was a cold hard lobbying exercise by the company. The guest list contained at least the policy chief for Tony Abbot, the head of an indigenous NGO and numerous other movers and shakers on both sides of politics. Would we also be right in thinking that a certain union leader would have been attending on the arm of the beautiful Olivia?

It should be understood that these are Qantas real "customer base" - not the poor schmuck general public that the company has been screwing over for years as well as its own employees.

If anyone can get and publish the guest list I think it would be an eye opener.

''
Tony Abbott has been forced to demote his director of policy, Mark Roberts

............................

A Tony Abbott staffer told an eminent Australian that he would 'cut his throat' once 'we' are in government … Much, much more to it …'' he tweeted.

Mr Van Onselen later claimed that an ''intoxicated'' Dr Roberts had approached himself and Andrew Penfold, head of the Australian Indigenous Education Foundation, at a Qantas-Emirates function in Sydney. Mr Van Onselen claimed that during the ensuing conversation, the adviser had been ''deliberately unpleasant'' and was heard telling Mr Penfold that his organisation's public funding would have its ''throat'' cut under an Abbott Coalition government.

The journalist also claimed others witnessed Dr Roberts' use of a threatening physical gesture representing a throat being cut during the exchange.

Read more: Abbott demotes policy director who made threat (http://www.smh.com.au/opinion/political-news/abbott-demotes-policy-director-who-made-threat-20130419-2i5kg.html#ixzz2R2UjIAFJ)

[Arnold E]

A Tony Abbott staffer told an eminent Australian that he would 'cut his throat' once 'we' are in government … Much, much more to it …'' he tweeted.

Mr Van Onselen later claimed that an ''intoxicated'' Dr Roberts had approached himself and Andrew Penfold, head of the Australian Indigenous Education Foundation, at a Qantas-Emirates function in Sydney. Mr Van Onselen claimed that during the ensuing conversation, the adviser had been ''deliberately unpleasant'' and was heard telling Mr Penfold that his organisation's public funding would have its ''throat'' cut under an Abbott Coalition government.

The journalist also claimed others witnessed Dr Roberts' use of a threatening physical gesture representing a throat being cut during the exchange.

Who cares????

[LookinDown]

It could be that this is an example of the thread's core topic.
Who cares? I do!
LD

[Jethro Gibbs]

Final exits will occur 29 and 30 April 2013, except for 3 people on leave.
These CRs will be actioned when they return from leave. There will be no
CRs until 29 and 30 April 2013.

This is what Forstaff stated So much for that Hearing reports that these CR,s have happened today .

[Bagus]

Alaea can do nothing now.

[Jethro Gibbs]

40 more workers get the axe at Avalon | Geelong, VIC, Australia (http://www.geelongadvertiser.com.au/article/2013/04/23/363499_news.html)

[Bagus]

The sad part is Forstaff employees have no option but out of door,Qantas has an option to relocate.

[Jethro Gibbs]

Avalon buoyed by sale of Tiger. FFS ! 2 Days ago 40 people lost there jobs now there Buoyed what a load of old Sh&^e .:mad::mad::mad:

Avalon buoyed by sale of Tiger | Geelong, VIC, Australia (http://www.geelongadvertiser.com.au/article/2013/04/24/363535_news.html)

[empire4]

As sad as it is to see people out of work, it makes NO sense for a company to have 3 different engineering bases across the country. It economic stupidity. Besides that, Avalon was setup and run by a bunch of ass kissing yes men that had their incompetence hidden by the workmanship of the LAME's and AME's there.

[qf 1]

it was only meant to be an overflow facility for Sydney HM,stands to reason for closure when there is no overflow out of Sydney any longer.What will poor WM do for work now ?grub

[Silverado]

Actually it was supposed to be a short term re-config facility only.

[Bagus]

SIA ,MAS,Cathay,Lufthansa,BA all has several bases to do maintenance,but QF do not know how to manage it.

[Jethro Gibbs]

With all the sackings at MEL & AVV Qantas still cannot get the numbers required at BNE Readvertised again .

[lamem]

Why would anyone move there? Base maintenance only pays 7% shift loading and Line face redundancies in the not too distant future. Once the volunteers leave that will only leave compulsory redundancies.

[Jethro Gibbs]

Why would anyone move there?

Exactly no ones going to move there for what is a short term but Qantas just don't get it .

[Jethro Gibbs]

Just Read the May E-Torque apparently nothing happened at Avalon since the Feb Edition.

[cvrurass]

No news about EBA talks with Forstaff? I think the current EA expires very soon.

[Jethro Gibbs]

Avalon may expire well before any EBA Talks .

[cvrurass]

At Brisbane :

"Representatives are concerned that LAMEs holding only legacy fleet licences face the possibility of a compulsory redundancy in the near future"

What about training at Avalon?

Are ALAEA Representatives not so concerned about Avalon members working for Forstaff?

How is the ALAEA fighting for our future?

Concerned Member

[600ft-lb]

Qantas Spending On Maintenance Consolidation (http://www.smh.com.au/business/qantas-to-spend-30m-on-brisbane-engineering-base-20121018-27sz9.html)

Qantas will spend $30 million on expanding its heavy maintenance base in Brisbane as it prepares for an eventual consolidation of its aircraft engineering facilities in Australia from two to one.
The airline has previously flagged that it plans to eventually close a heavy maintenance base at Avalon Airport near Geelong in Victoria, and shift the work to its eight-year-old Brisbane facility.


If I were ANYONE working at Avalon, I would be applying for anything and everything and getting out.. The agenda from management does not have you guys in it. They have flagged this since mid last year. It won't be a shock when they close AVV down, either lap up the redundancy payment when it finally comes or jump off the sinking ship.

There will be no more training, there is no more extra work, there is nothing to fight for except entitlements which Qantas has a good track record in honoring.

It's pessimistic but its true.

[Millet Fanger]

Are ALAEA Representatives not so concerned about Avalon members working for Forstaff?
I don't know, why don't you ask them. They are the guys you work with everyday.

The "ALAEA" is not an organization that has hundreds of staff sitting in an office somewhere, doing whatever you need. It's all the members in your workplace, assisted by a few locally elected Reps. Sure, there are a few Industrial Officers who will provide support, but they respond to issues, ideas, events co-ordinated by the local reps.

If you don't like the response occurring to what Qantas / WM are doing, speak to the rep on-site, or better still, get involved yourself. Whingeing and moaning on PPRuNe won't help your cause much!

[cvrurass]

Concerns have already been expressed to local Reps and I believe they have been passed on at executive meetings.

I know the Fed Sec monitors Pprune, and have got results eg site meetings from expressing conserns in this forum.

I don't have numbers of members at Avalon, but believe it to be one of biggest facilities for ALAEA membership.

It would be a shame to those few sitting in the ALAEA office to loose Avalon members.

[BrissySparkyCoit]

Are ALAEA Representatives not so concerned about Avalon members working for Forstaff?

cvrurass, The ALAEA notice came about due to an EOI for an A330 course for Brisbane Base Maintenance. Had the management not put the word out that a course was to be run, there would probably have not been concern from legacy only type holders within the membership in Brisbane and therefore, no ALAEA notice.

I am sure that the same situation applies to Avalon. The difference being, management have not expressed the possibility of a type course in the immedeate future. This is a separate issue.

The proposals in the notice, if sucessful, would have benefits in all areas.

[ALAEA Fed Sec]

What about training at Avalon?

Are ALAEA Representatives not so concerned about Avalon members working for Forstaff?

How is the ALAEA fighting for our future?


The airline makes the decision whether they will supply training or not. As a union the best we can do is make sure the training is handed out fairly by asking those who have current quals to withold their application for the slots.

Management aren't offering training at Avalon. I'll repeat that, MANAGEMENT aren't offering training at Avalon. It is not your union that makes this decision.

Fighting for your future? Apart from the court cases that are currently running and constant meetings to try and convince Qantas to give Avalon more work (which they continue to refuse because they want you closed down). The press to highlight that they are sending more work offshore such as the Jetconnect 737 work.....

Yes, I remember now. We had 100,000 pamphlets printed last year to hand out at train stations to support HM in this country. We put out a notice seeking volunteers to help hand them out. Apart from our Reps, not one member responded and offered to dedicate one hour of his/her time to help out. There is only so much we can do mate in the court rooms and press, without the support of members we really are pushing ****e up hill.

[cvrurass]

Not only is Qantas sending 737 heavy maintenance work to NZ. They have sent a check coordinator and a planner from Avalon as well as some Syd staff to help NZ take Avalon work.

[Redstone]

Steve makes a very salient point.

[ALAEA Fed Sec]

Not only is Qantas sending 737 heavy maintenance work to NZ. They have sent a check coordinator and a planner from Avalon as well as some Syd staff to help NZ take Avalon work.


I'll bet Jetconnict aren't paying for this. It will all go on the Qantas HM tab.

[Jethro Gibbs]

cvrurass all you can hope for now is a quick ending.

[Bootstrap1]

So they can send staff to NZ for a check but any aircraft going to the asian Centre of Excellence in Manila go it alone.

Great idea Tony.

[ALAEA Fed Sec]

The don't even need the maintenance release to be valid when the aircraft takes off out of Manilla either. Isn't that right Tony.

[ranmar850]

The airline makes the decision whether they will supply training or not. As a union the best we can do is make sure the training is handed out fairly by asking those who have current quals to withold their application for the slots.

Management aren't offering training at Avalon. I'll repeat that, MANAGEMENT aren't offering training at Avalon. It is not your union that makes this decision.

Fighting for your future? Apart from the court cases that are currently running and constant meetings to try and convince Qantas to give Avalon more work (which they continue to refuse because they want you closed down). The press to highlight that they are sending more work offshore such as the Jetconnect 737 work.....

Yes, I remember now. We had 100,000 pamphlets printed last year to hand out at train stations to support HM in this country. We put out a notice seeking volunteers to help hand them out. Apart from our Reps, not one member responded and offered to dedicate one hour of his/her time to help out. There is only so much we can do mate in the court rooms and press, without the support of members we really are pushing ****e up hill.
http://images.ibsrv.net/ibsrv/res/src:www.pprune.org/get/images/statusicon/user_offline.gif http://images.ibsrv.net/ibsrv/res/src:www.pprune.org/get/images/buttons/report.gif (http://www.pprune.org/report.php?p=7851448)

And this, sadly, is where unions fail. It is meant to be a collective force, an expression of collective will--but when it comes to anything outside of attending a stop-work meeting, or maybe participating in a march, the membership will do nothing. Except whine about "why isn't the union doing something?" When it comes to a situation such as currently exists at Avalon, as an example, they really can do very little without mass , active membership support. Support that goes beyond paying their union dues, that is.:rolleyes: Long ago, I was a union member (unrelated industry), and I have seen the really ugly side of it, the one which exists to this very day, among the bottom feeders like the CFMEU, AWU, et al; I just won't be a part of it, and fear it returning to the industry I am currently in. The reps will say-"things are good now, but who will look after you when it turns bad?-" my answer? You certainly won't ,because you are powerless when the downsizing starts--you can't do a bloody thing except make meaningless noises for a TV camera.
Steve and the union he represents, is, to me, a shining example of what a union should be-unaffiliated to any political party, there for the members and not just a career step into a safe seat in lower house or senate, able to negotiate a decent EBA,and offer support to individual members with work-related issues: but, when the proverbial goes through the prop, the redundancy clauses the union had written into that EBA is all you have. If the company wants to close their facility, they will do so.
The installation does not exist to provide you with a job, it provides a function for the company, and , particularly with the apparent attitudes of the current qantas management, all he can do is smooth the dying pillow if they want to close it. Unless, of course, an unparalleled show of support from ALL of the membership , and resulting media coverage, forces a company rethink.
Difficult to imagine it happening.:sad:

[genxfrog]

Ranmar850...... Your attempt at sharing words of wisdom is to me and many of us who work in this Industry (and Union members) just another typical example of endless excuses about why Unions are a lost cause.
The CFMEU (one of your excuses for not being a union member) don't even operate in our Industry. Rather than throw stones....you, me and everyone else in our Industry should feel an obligation to do whatever we can to keep it alive. Not only for us, but for those who were proudly here before us and more importantly for the next generation which could include our sons and daughters.
Please spare us from another pointless soapbox episode of Raising the white flag and shouting "you can't do anything to stop it....it's all too late....too hard.....don't bother.....blame the Unions".
Unions don't always get it right, but we have too many amongst us that wouldn't hesitate to eat our own just to look after our own individual backsides. That's the cancer that's allowed us to become less effective and influential........not some boring repetitive excuse about Unions.:=

[Sunfish]

How do you think CFMEU brings Grocon to the table? Sweet reason? The only thing that will get you anywhere is to credibly threaten Qantas profitability.

Since politicians on both sides of Parliament vie with each other to see how far they canclimb up the Qantas arse, you have very little hope. Then of course the Greens hate all airlines so they are no help.

You need to strike and make it stick and bugger FWA.

[griffin one]

Australian logistics division of Ford to make one thousand redundant. What does Julia do. Inject another twelve million into car manufacturing on top of the thirty six million Per annum.
QF and numerous aircraft maintenance facilities in AUZ making staff redundant, what does Julia do Sweet FA

Looking fwd to September Julia

[ampclamp]

Griffin if you think the other mob will help out you are mistaken. I have also wondered at the sacred cow the auto industry appeared to be. Both sides of politics are guilty of propping up various car makers with billions and left aviation to rot both in a regulatory sense and the industry at large.

[mightyauster]

Sad, but true ampclamp. Unfortunately, the aviation industry in this country does not rate for votes.

[magic8]

SYD redundancies may be on hold for a while but lots of rumours of VRs still happening elsewhere and some even being refused. Anyone confirm or just rumours.

[Silverado]

SYD redundancies may be on hold for a while but lots of rumours of VRs still happening elsewhere and some even being refused. Anyone confirm or just rumours.

VR still open for AME's

[LookinDown]

Griffin,
I emailed my major fears re QF's future to my Federal MP last year.
After a week or so of no response I rang his office. Spoke with one of his staff who checked and confirmed that yes their office had indeed received my email.

Informed him that I'd had no response. Guess what? Never bothered to even acknowledge my email let alone respond to it.

He is a member of the Libs. Happy to post his name.
LD

[Jethro Gibbs]

Informed him that I'd had no response. Guess what? Never bothered to even acknowledge my email let alone respond to it.


So What this is a common Practice all over now Its wrong but what can you do .

[ALAEA Fed Sec]

So What this is a common Practice all over now Its wrong but what can you do .

You can join a real union that will run it's own candidates against these Wally's. When they ask for your preferences you could say something like - Well are you going to answer my f***en email now?

[LookinDown]

JG
I was supporting ampclamp's post that you wont do better with either side of the political fence when it comes to aviation.

I've had acknowledgments of my contact at the very least on other matters from elsewhere.

Not hard at all to send out a standard template "thank you very much for your email (even if I am going to now carefully place it in the round filing cabinet)". Even Pollies with limited skull juice know that totally ignoring communication from your constituents isnt a very smart ploy.
LD

[Bagus]

PM in Geelong for Ford,not Avalon.

[Jethro Gibbs]

That's ok according to Avalons Justin Giddings and todays Geelong Advertiser The Grand Plan for Avalon is Thousands of jobs around 2031 yes that's right 2031 ! So Don't Hold your Breath.:mad::ugh: Its Over.

[Bagus]

PM for Ford,must be due all AWU members.ALAEA not supporting labor so PM don't care

[Jethro Gibbs]

All this Money for Ford workers is meaningless spin it will all go to Gov Employment services providers that's if it even really exists the Ford workers will get what Avalon workers got the address of the nearest Centrelink office who will fob them off onto an Employment service provider who the workers will find are next to useless .

[Jethro Gibbs]

Forstaff Managers had a meeting off site in the the past week 2 topics were discussed more bad news & finding a way to bring in some people on short term contracts due to having sacked to many staff.
What a Debacle.:ok:

[cvrurass]

Bad news, rumor has it, is that we have too many avionics staff.

Short term contracts, rumor has it, is we don't have enough structures staff.

Management looking for trade off. Overall numbers to stay the same but adjust avionics and structures numbers.

[qf 1]

good news if your structures :}

[Jethro Gibbs]

good news if your structures http://images.ibsrv.net/ibsrv/res/src:www.pprune.org/get/images/smilies/badteeth.gif

This mob spent months sorting out there numbers required then found out the numbers were wrong then more time coming up with new figures now people have been made redundant and guess what the numbers were wrong again .

[Jethro Gibbs]

What ever happened with the UFD case in FWA against Forstaff those made redundant not hearing any news has it gone forward not yet heard or over and done with .

[ALAEA Fed Sec]

Hearing was in FWA couple of weeks ago. Waiting on the ruling.

[griffin one]

Rumor is the two 744 freighters leased to QF by EFR ( QF shelf co ) will be maintained offshore.

Looks like shanghai for A chks and so forth

More off shoring when Avalon or Sydney base could use the work.

[Redstone]

With trend in Au dollar this could be costly.

[Jethro Gibbs]

A couple of A Checks is not going to save Avalon and meanwhile Wally seen giving Con more instructions at another off site meeting last week wont be Good News .

[Jethro Gibbs]

E TORQUE JULY

Forstaff Aviation Avalon
In June 2013 members completed the "ALAEA Ideas Form – EA 2013", relaying ideas to the ALAEA of what they want the Federal office of the Association, to pursue for the next EA. Varying ideas were reported to the ALAEA with strong support from the membership on the following;

Keep last on first off in redundancy process of new EA

KEEP IT ITS GONE ALREADY:mad::ugh:

[ALAEA Fed Sec]

It hasn't gone. Still in EA and used recently.

[Bagus]

Is these ideas came from alaea or from members

[Jethro Gibbs]

If LOFO really is being followed have to wonder why numerous people have gone .

[Bagus]

LOFO does not work ,it can be interpreted in many ways.

[ALAEA Fed Sec]

LOFO is usually not preferred by the last bloke on.

[buttmonkey1]

BNE seems to use the squeaky wheel first off method

[Bagus]

Members continue to show strong support for last on first off provisions in the EA. As result of the Ideas Form, the ALAEA will be initiating the bargaining process for a new EA in July.:=:=:=:=:=:=

[BrissySparkyCoit]

Would be a nice clause to have in the QF agreement too.

That will never happen though.... don't wanna disrupt the boys club mission to train only the brown noses whilst funnelling the rest towards a points system that will make them redundant.

Keep your head down and your eyes straight ahead.... la la la see nothing, say nothing and you will go places.

[Bagus]

In June 2013 members completed the "ALAEA Ideas Form – EA 2013", relaying ideas to the ALAEA of what they want the Federal office of the Association, to pursue for the next EA. Varying ideas were reported to the ALAEA with strong support from the membership on the following;

Save Avalon jobs should be a priority.

[Bagus]

LOFO is usually not preferred by the last bloke on.[/U]

All at Forstaff are the last bloke now

[Jethro Gibbs]

According to Avalon's Justin Giddings Freight is the Future of Avalon 300 jobs gone this year empty hangars and Qantas on the edge just how out of touch is this man .

Freight 'to be future' for Avalon | Geelong, VIC, Australia (http://www.geelongadvertiser.com.au/article/2013/07/08/368698_news.html)

[Jethro Gibbs]

UFD case in FWA against Forstaff been about 6 weeks now how long does this take .

[genxfrog]

Jethro...why don't you pick up the phone and ask someone at the FWC?:bored:

[727ace]

Came across redundant Qf and Avalon engineers training at Q aerospace recently for full time positions @ J* what goes, with eba nego. The word strikebreakers wa:ugh:s used...

[Jethro Gibbs]

Avalon and Qf Training A320
So what if they are looking to get into something else all the talk of Support , Training and we will Standby you from State / Federal Gov. the Employers and all the unions involved has amounted to nothing there all on there own so what do you expect them to do .
They might even re join a union if they get a job .

[genxfrog]

Jethro....called the FWC yet?:rolleyes:

[Jethro Gibbs]

No you seem to know it all perhaps you can post a reference Number or case Number we can look up at FWA.:ok: