Prospects in South America and Argentina

[100 above minimums]

Hey there guys! I would like to know how the airline industry is faring in South America, in Argentina specifically, and what are the prospects of finding a job there. I have lived in Argentina for some time and have been contemplating moving there.


I just do not know how it works there and from where to start.I assume I'll need to convert my fATP first before any job hunting so any ideas regarding the conversion would be highly appreciated. I also want to know what is the typical career path for young, fresh graduates there? Do they go straight into the airlines or are there other job opportunities such as instructing, towing, regionals to build hours? Is it promising? And does the fact that I am not a native make it any harder or impossible even though I speak Spanish?



I appreciate any advice from you guys and thank you all in advance :)

[flyingswiss]

Fresh Graduate with an ATP license?? how does that work?

Anyway without Argentinian passport pretty much not a chance, at least are you or can you become a legal resident there?

[themagicman00]

Like the above post replied, if you are not argentine citizen, they will not hire you. Simple.
Now, if you want to convert your license into an ANAC approved one, it will take you probably about 1 year and a lots of headaches and cash. Remember back in 2006 when the Air Force was dealing with licenses, some Colonel wanted $2500 pesos (at the time it was about 800US) to speed up the convertion process.
All in all, you need to get your citizenship and then worry about the license.
Just my 2 cents.

[100 above minimums]

It's a frozen ATP, meaning that I only possess a CPL with IR and ME and have completed the written exams but I'm yet to reach 1500 hours and/or the minimum age for the license issuance. So, yes, I do not have the full,valid ATP license, not yet...

I am not a resident there but I do not see any reason why I could not become one, all I'll need is a work permit. But it seems that it is not that easy for non-Argentinians to get a job there. Is it the same situation in the rest of South America or are there countries that are relatively more open to foreigners?

[themagicman00]

In south america is turning into the norm, that the pilots must be citizens or at least residents of the respective countries in order to fly with the local airlines.
My two options for you are COPA out of Panama and Lan Chile; these two airlines take foreign pilots. Give them a shot, login into their website and register.

[marianoberna]

Hi, i'm from argentina. The main "not official" requisite here to enter a line is having a "padrino" (someone inside who vouches for you). If you screw up, it's the "padrino" the one who gets most of the heat. So it's really hard to get one. But that's for the lines.. You still can find job towing gliders and throwing parachutists. but you'll have to get your license validated.

[100 above minimums]

It has become the norm almost everywhere.. I feel that everyone is just confined to his/her country. (Although having experience might facilitate a move to "specific" airlines) We have the same situation here in Egypt so I can't really complain, can I? :hmm:

Hahaha I like the "padrino" system, messing up real bad only for my "padrino" to take the blame for it...zero responsibilities on my part. :p

But anyway, I am not really expecting to jump in the airliners' shiny jets from Day 1. I know it has become harde and that I have to move up the ladder....And honestly, I do not mind towing or flying skydivers, that would be a fantastic way to build up hours! So just a question, Do I need to find a job THEN convert or is it the other way around? How does this work?

[MartinCh]

Are you aware that to instruct fixed wing/aeroplanes in Argentina, you need 500hrs total or post-PPL? Also, to get copilot job in an airline, you need 'comercial de primera clase' - 900hrs TT with some checkride similar to CPL checkride?

Any GA jobs in Argentina are in demand by local pilots, although once you get to the level of eligible to instruct, you can find FI job reasonably easily, as Argentina's schools are used by Latinos from countries around a lot, too, due to cost, availability, etc.

[100 above minimums]

Aha! I have always read about "comercial" and "comercial primera clase" and never understood the difference.
No, I wasn't aware of all what you said. I thought it was like in the US where you can start instructing once you get your license..

To be honest, I have not dony my homework and did not do a lot of researching. I was hoping to see if I stand a chance in the first place or not from people here with might have had an experience in South America.

Thanks for your info, appreciate it :)

[MartinCh]

no probs. glad to help/give pointers.

Argentine system is bit more quirky in a way. Not considering bureaucratic bull****, of course.

The commercial licence eligibility/experience requirements are based on 200hrs from doing PPL flight test officially. (even if reality may be bit of paper shuffling at school not to 'go over') Then you got the HVI - IR/IFR rating. Night rating is normally done towards the CPL checkride, so the twin rating.

You can definitely do fires spotting, meat bombing, glider towing, small charter/scenics (translados/bautismos). The FI training is towards the 500hr flight time, to include the course/training with 500 or more hours at the end of it. I don't know much about the duration etc, I only did some flying towards PPL in Argentina.

The 'Primera classe' is for airlines, although you can fly bizjets multicrew (like one friend, but he already had instructional experience) without PC, as I understand it.

There are Argentinos getting jobs in LAN Peru or Chile, even COPA, as it's possible to get copilot/FO gig after training, obviously, subject to this 'near insurmountable' OACI 4 requirement, haha. Not that it's of same standard as UK/Europe test standards, very likely. I mean, there are guys who can get FO job, but virtually no English skills. Which is why people tried to speak English with me a lot while I was there, although it was more of a burden to me, trying to do informal conversation classes, than just speak Spanish. Pues, no importa.

I don't know how you're going to sort permanent residence. From the official sources when I looked at it, getting married or being investor in Arg economy/company (pure madness, TBH in these days) are two 'easy ones'. Sure, you can just do the run across border every 3 months, to be 'legal stay', but not for jobs legally. People who do some studies or teach English often do so, to avoid all the paperwork hassle. Oh, and conversion of foreign CPL/IR, another headache, especially if not from Spanish speaking country. I don't know details, but make sure you got apostilled original documents, like birth certificate, high school/secondary school diploma (Uni degree doesn't matter), then you're gonna need to have it translated at APPROVED translator for your country/language in Argentina, likely BsAs, so don't waste money on translating it to Spanish 'back home' as it counts for nothing.

Contact school you have in mind/is recommended to you and talk to them as they can give you more detailed info if they got expeirence with it. Chances are you'd do more flying than you'd expect for conversion. Oh, and have everything STAMPED, from school, govt organisation with the docs/apostilles de la Haya (Hague), logbook from school etc. Everything is more believable with stamps. Latin America just like Africa, haha. Go bonkers with important looking stamps. :-)

[chileno 777]

My two options for you are COPA out of Panama and Lan Chile; these two airlines take foreign pilots. Give them a shot, login into their website and register.


Copa only hires foreign F/Os with more than 1000 hrs TT and apparently hiring is stopped at the moment.

Your best choice in South America (and believe the only one) would be Lan (Chile) since they hire not locals, but you would be required to pass the spanish assesment at berlitz before apply.


Good luck

[flyingswiss]

Do you have the right to work in France? If you hold a French license and have the right to work there, you have so many places around the world you can work at. I use to fly in the South Pacific and saw many openings there for French license (not only a JAA) holders, I got offered several times to do survey flights as I use to fly only part time over there..

[100 above minimums]

Gee, thanks for the help matinCh... Looks like getting things done in Bs As is a complete hassle! I am actually quite used to the whole bureaucratic, stamping thing. But I think each country has its own taste of bureaucracy...Not sure how can I handle it in Argentina.

Chileno777 I applied to LAN Chile a while ago.. Made an account on their page, filled up all the necessary stuff and applied but have not received any feedback. Lack of interest I assume! :ugh: I was also onboard one of LAN Arg A320s last year and saw that they had a page quieroserpiloto.cl so I checked it out and registerd my interest. A couple of weeks later, I received a "formulario" for me to fill out and send back which I did and still nothing ever since from them.. Are there any other channel through which I can apply?

And another thing regarding the Spanish test. Would the European B-2 DELE (Diploma de español como lengua extranjera) do?

flyingswiss No. I do not have the right to work in France :/

[cosmiccomet]

If you are not Argentine citizen you are not going to be allowed to fly for an airline in Argentina.

Anyway, at this moment the government is against LAN Airlines and LAN Argentina is not recruiting at all.
Aerolineas Argentinas has recruited more than 265 pilots at the same time by February 2011 and they are still training those pilots.
Austral is planning to recruit 40 FO if the government buys additional 2 or 3 ERJ-190.

I don't see green pastures at Argentina until the actual party leaves the government.

[chileno 777]

Chileno777 I applied to LAN Chile a while ago.. Made an account on their page, filled up all the necessary stuff and applied but have not received any feedback. Lack of interest I assume! :ugh: I was also onboard one of LAN Arg A320s last year and saw that they had a page quieroserpiloto.cl so I checked it out and registerd my interest. A couple of weeks later, I received a "formulario" for me to fill out and send back which I did and still nothing ever since from them.. Are there any other channel through which I can apply?

And another thing regarding the Spanish test. Would the European B-2 DELE (Diploma de español como lengua extranjera) do?



Try using the following emails [email protected] and [email protected]

Apparently the berlitz is the only valid test. Pls check the link below:
Requisitos de Ingreso - Pilotos - LAN.com (http://www.lan.com/sitio_personas/minisitios/trabajar_en_lantam/chile/requisitos_de_ingreso.html)

[100 above minimums]

cosmiccomet Do airlines in Argentina get subsidized as well from the government? That's why it depends on the government's spending in the airline industry? Anyway, Cristina still has until 2015 :p So maybe afterwards we can see some "green pasture" ;)

Chileno777 Alright man, I think I'll just throw my CV there through the two e-mails you wrote. Appreciate it :ok:

[kmac1618]

This is what I heard a few months back.. At the moment LCH is dealing only with chilean or chilean residents due to the 15% max foreign pilots in the new CBA. Now, the actual limit is 25%. What the CBA says is that for every 1% above the 15%, a bonus equivalent to 10% of the chilean pilot salary must be payed by the company. That's why the company is avoiding hiring expats. But they will have to put that aside at some point as the number of English speaking pilots in Chile is limited.

[leondelfierro]

At the moment LCH is dealing only with chilean or chilean residents due to the 15% max foreign pilots in the new CBA. Now, the actual limit is 25%. What the CBA says is that for every 1% above the 15%, a bonus equivalent to 10% of the chilean pilot salary must be payed by the companyThat's true
The number of English speaking pilots in Chile is limited That's just... not true...
I fly corporate in Chile and every pilot i know (we're a small community) have at least decent english command, few of them even fly for 135 certificates in the US. An important number of us are in possession of FAA licenses.

Even i don't fly in LA, i'll have to say that most of LA, LU and UC Pilots (can't speak for LX, DM or LP) have average or above english skills, natural career track in the company takes you in your Senior FO ages to the 767 and a while ago to the A340, flying to busy english speaking terminal areas, sure you can find exceptions to this, but the gross percentage can operate with a fairly good english level.

[kmac1618]

You are right a high number of Chilean pilots have a good level of English, all the ones that I know of can speak English anyway. Now on the other hand, LAN requires you to get at least Level 4 on the ICAO English test and so that percentage then decreases.. This is what I meant by limited amount of English speaking pilots.
I heard they were firing Spanish pilots aswell but I dont know why though.