Nimrod Questions

[XV148]

I am trying to confirm the following specific Nimrod questions for the ongoing reference project:
MRA4 visits to Kinloss ISK on 26th March 2010, having thought the aircraft was grounded at that time, does anybody know if ZJ514 A visited Kinloss in March 2010 ?
Nimrod AEW3 XZ287 - did the Secretary of State George Younger fly on this aircraft to review the systems just before the AEW project was cancelled ?
The Brown Nimrod XV246 - does anyone have a decent image of this while in this state ?
Many thanks
XV148

[ShortFatOne]

The answer to No1 is most definitely yes, MRA4 did visit Kinloss on that day. We stayed fo for around 4 hrs, to let everyone have a good butchers. We departed back to Warton just before theMR2 flypast. Little did I know it would be the last time I flew her.

[XV148]

Thanks, I had 514 as the following:
The aircraft was delivered to Warton on March 11th spending one hour in the Warton circuit upon arrival. Following an inspection by the MoD, the aircraft was grounded until September while the faults were rectified.
It appears from your feedback that the aircraft was at least flying until 26th of March when it visited ISK (the weather looked pretty bad!!). Any ideas when the MOD inspection and subsequent grounding took place, must have been soon after this ?

[bluetail]

XV148:ok:
I have images of ZJ514 at ISK on the said day, I also have images on XV246 as the brown bomber, and yes the weather was rubbish

If you email me at home...I can send them to you

JIMS

[XV148]

It would be interesting to get the timeline for 514 after she left ISK ie any subsequent flights and the date of the MOD inspection, does anyone have this ?

[Doptrack]

SFO - ZJ514 AKA PA4?

XV148 - PM me, I may know some-one who can answer the questions on later flights OR go to/join Facebook "Nimrod Rise and Fall" group and post your questions on there. The person I'm thinking of is also a member of that group.

I may post my copy of the Brown Bomber picture on there - If it's not there already.

[lonsdale2]

I don't have the full info you require but the final flight for 514 was from Woodford to Warton on 09 Sept 2010, she was subsequently scrapped in Feb 2011.

[Mend em]

PA4 performed a fly-past at RAF Kinloss in September 2010. Little did we know as we watched her climb into the clouds and disappear. This may well have been a detour on the flight noted in the post above,

[XV148]

Yes you are correct, it was PA4's last flight and Kinloss was included as well as Jersey and Guernsey.

[XV148]

XV229 - The Bahama Mama incident, does anybody have an exact date ? Also the XV229 tow truck incident in the Gulf, any ideas on a date ?

[Janda]

Have a look at this link

RAF Kinloss Memories | Jim Simpson Aircraft Images (http://3adpictures.wordpress.com/new-goodbye-raf-kinloss/#jp-carousel-738)

[ShortFatOne]

Got your PM. Will get back to you next week, promise!

[The Old Fat One]

OK, I'll bite...what you up to XV148? And, more importantly, how can we help?

FWIW I think everything to do with the AEW is in public record somewhere. There were some heavy duty audits after that Nimrod AEW fiasco which resulted in change (lol) to how the MOD did procurement.

If this is serious research you are on, I would wade into the National Audit Office and see what they have on it. They might not have been around circa 1980, but they might be able to give you a steer. There was also a Panorama documentary on the AEW (back in the day when Panorama had some credibility).

[Wander00]

I watched that Panorama programme on Nimrod AEW at the Civil Service Staff College whilst a student at the Joint Services PR Course - so must have been about 84 - also in the room was the then DPR (RAF), Air Commodore, later AVM, Bobbie Robson. He chuckled and muttered his way through the programme - "Surely not", "Did I really say that?"! Clearly the Panorama teams had been fed some lines of investigation, which they had followed quite well

[dragartist]

Some of the answers are in Tony's book - Rise and Fall. I found it interesting anyway!

What I found most intersting with the Nimrod programme is how the lowest hour airfames were taken for the AEW, then Aneka (249 to replace 66) then the MR4. they all finished up cut up behind screens to keep this from the public. I did manage to rob some spare O2 bits from the AEW for the R but that was it. I think we got new chairs or perhaps just seat covers.

I was a young man at the time but strength of feeling in the RAF regards AEW was always leaning towards E3 AWACS. Not sure if PPRuNe was around back then but I don't honestly belive the MoD take any real notice of opinion on here.

Certainly recall folks playing with funny colours and wash off paint.

[peppermint_jam]

229's towing mishap would have been September 2001, watched it happen, good of MT to provide some light hearted relief after the horrors a few days previous.

Might have a photo somewhere, will have a dig.

[XV148]

Attaching key events and activities to specific aircraft histories in an attempt to provide the full documented study (I published a similar book on the DH Comet with Air Britain back in 2002). Aiming to provide a data and fact reference on the subject.
Anything you may have or can assist with to ensure the stories are recorded would be great, thanks.
XV148

[XV148]

Great, thanks for the date, can put this in right order now.

[alwayslookingup]

#4, XV246 as the Brown Bomber. In 1976 a one hit wonder combo called Typically Tropical sang of flying to Barbados on Coconut Airways. I believe the brown bomber made a brief appearance at Kinloss adorned with Coconut Airways in white on the brown fuselage.

[Ubehagligpolitiker]

My crew picked the Brown Bomber up from Kinloss on 1st March 1977 and ferried under cover of darkness to St Mawgan where it stayed for several weeks on loan from Kinloss. As we taxied in to the line ATC caught sight in the lights and were clearly impressed.

I think that Kinloss were very happy to hand the embarrassment to 3rd Div South. When driving in to work at St Mawgan from Truro the "BB" was clearly visible from Carland Cross (about 7 miles from St Mawgan).

[ANW]

A well deserved round of applause for patience and dedication !
XV148's handy work on the restoration of the cockpit may be viewed here (http://www.edendale.co.uk/ANW/WFD.801.16.html)

[The Old Fat One]

When driving in to work at St Mawgan from Truro the "BB" was clearly visible from Carland Cross (about 7 miles from St Mawgan).

oohhh memories...

.... used to drive in from Cubert, thinking "when are they going to paint that turd the right colour?"

[XV148]

Glad you like it, it wasn't a pretty sight when I acquired her but she is humming now, just the bucket seats, underfloor control rods and connecting her up to a flight sim and a Nimrod will fly !!!

[XV148]

XV236 was delivered as the first MR2 to RAF Kinloss on 23rd August. The first MR2 sortie must have taken place a few days afterwards, did anyone fly on this sortie, have the dates or any details of this sortie ?

[lonsdale2]

I wasn't there and don't have the sortie details but have been told that 201 Sqn flew a sortie on the aircraft on the very same day it was delivered.

[The Old Fat One]

I wasn't there and don't have the sortie details but have been told that 201 Sqn flew a sortie on the aircraft on the very same day it was delivered.

Can't be right. 206 Sqn were the first squadron to convert to the MR2

[Sandy Parts]

if you desperately need to know, all the sqn records (F540s) should have been de-classified under the 30-year rule and should now be in the hands of the Public Records Office (or whatever they are called currently..), I know those for 120 and 42 were handled just so 'cos I did 'em! I think you can apply for them under FOI or somesuch - good luck mind as nobody seemed at all interested in taking them on when we tried to send them away!!!

[Onceapilot]

As far as I recall, XV236 entered Kinloss ASF for post conversion recovery after arrival. This involved getting all the servicing, rectification and important mods done to get it back to the fleet standard after being under civilian (ish) charge during conversion. This might have been more than a few days work. Cheers

OAP

[XV148]

If you happen to be browsing your logbooks in the near future, I am looking for more stories/incidents for the following Nimrods: XV237, XV243, XV248, XV253, XV259, XV262 and XZ282. Any key flight or story about these would be great.
I am also interested toi hear from anyone that flew in XZ283 at RAF Wyton. This was used as a training aircraft and was used in a unique configuration, can anybody help here ?

[Ron Cake]

XV 148

I have a recollection of a an XV 259 trip - a junket for a 'one star'

Air Commodore Tony Caillard (MOD) visited Kinloss in December 78 to see what the Nimrod force 'got up to'. I was pressed ganged into accompanying him because, from our days at Marham, he knew I was a reliable 'bag carrier'. An exercise looking for submarines (CASSEX?) was laid on and XV 259 of 206 Sqn was chosen to carry the great man. It was all very interesting, if a little perplexing, to us V force types. Anyway, at the end of the exercise the pilot kindly delivered us to Benson because the Air Commodore lived at Kenley and I lived at Bushey Heath. I guess that's called one star treatment.

[XV148]

Thanks Ron, exactly the type of individual aircraft story I am looking for, Regards XV148

[Avtur]

On the morning of 6 July 1989, Crew 8 of 42 (TB) Sqn were flying on XV 248 in support of the RN on one of their submarine command course exercises. We intercepted a Mayday on channel 16 from a lobster boat called “Fay” saying she was sinking somewhere between the Isle of Man and Liverpool. We left the RN to their own devices and tried to contact the Fay to no avail. The coastguard did not get an exact position so we started a search. After about four hours or so, and much fun going around Douglas beaches at 200 ft, our radar op reported a weak contact. As we investigated we spotted survivors in the water 2 nm off Douglas clutching empty plastic bottles. We dropped an ASR kit and waited for the Sea King, who had also joined the search, to arrive on scene. We spotted two survivors swimming to the dinghy and carried on circling them until the Sea King had winched all the survivors up safely. We headed to Valley for a refuel before carrying on back to St Mawgan. Apparently, the people on the boat had rowed from Douglas to Liverpool in a bath tub and were being taken back to the IOM on the Fay when it sunk! It was the bottles used as floatation for the bath tub that saved their lives, and the fact that the sea temperature was warmer than usual for July. In all, we rescued nine people. :D

I have pics that we took from 248 if you send me your email to my PM (Can't figure out how to paste them onto this).

[Janda]

On 29 Jan 1975 left St Mawgan en route to Singapore where we arrived 4 days later with XV259. My first visit to the Far East and indeed anywhere east of Malta. That aircraft may have been the last one in Singapore on a MARDET. In August 1977 took the aircraft to Nimes Garons where we stayed for 3 nights. Was supposed to do a sortie whilst there but we had a high speed abort (1 knot short of V1). The figures worked as we stopped 20 metres short of the end of the runway. The French officer on the flight deck was a little pale when he got off the aircraft. Cooincidently we found out Elvis had died whilst there. Newspaper headline "Le Roi est mort".

Also was part of the crew that delivered the aircraft to Woodford on 9 Jan 1978.

[XV148]

XZ283 was delivered to RAF Wyton in 1976 and served until 1978. This was a unique Nimrod, does anybody remember it while with 51 Sqn during this time and did you fly or work on XZ283 ?

[XV148]

Someone asked me to post the link to the 'movie' I made of the last ever landing in July 2011 (with ATC comms), enjoy: Nimrod R1 XV249 Last Landing 29th July 2011 HD - YouTube
XV148

[enginesuck]

Still miss it, I pass by XV244 everyday on my daily ride or occasional run. On my way back from Findhorn as I look across the airfield sometimes i blink and I can almost see the pans full and people busy at a job they loved. Hey ho times change.

[Javie Guerrero]

Hi I am called Javier and investigate conflicts of the last decades

Please someone I can be clarified by the model of a buoy thrown from a Nimrod (XV227).

They were two models, AN/SSQ-36 and other one mentions the document this:

XPX/ (NO.) 5 (type) 30051 or 300S1 confused (U/S) N/L or N/C confused.

These are other information of the buoy

BUOY (..TIME) (..LAT) (..LONG) (398/904/850 TYPE) (..LENGTH) (1 H LIFE) (...CHAN NO.)

AMBTN OUT (55/73/115/65/305/58/850/55/1150/53)

Thank you

[PingDit]

Javier,

What these figures refer to is bathythermal buoys. The SSQ36 dropped to a depth of 1000ft at a known descent rate. The surface unit of the buoy then transmitted the temperature back to the aircraft as the temperature unit descended. These buoys were later replaced with buoys that went down to 1500ft.

AMBTN OUT (55/73/115/65/305/58/850/55/1150/53) refers to:

At 55Hz - Ambient noise is 73dB
115Hz - Ambient noise is 65dB and so on....
These readings would be taken from most other types of passive sonobuoy but the SSQ36 was not able to provide ambient noise readings.

Hope this helps,
Ping

[dragartist]

Javier,
You will find a good explanation in Tony Blackmans book Rise and Fall. All public domain stuff no risk of Sy Breach

[PingDit]

Good point DA, although the SSQ36 was defunct many years ago and the rest of the information I left above is now open source.

[Javie Guerrero]

Ping, Dragartist, thank you for the information.Not wise of the existence of the book.

With the information I have located which are the buoys, though the document is not said which is one of them (type 300.. ???).

In this case the Nimrod it was not patrolling an area, was going in traffic to a WP and the throwings of the buoys were spread in the time and to an alone buoy.

I have mas doubts of the documents but though they are classified, understand the situation.

Thank you.

[Javie Guerrero]

Pingdit or some crew member of Nimrod, if it is possible to speak.

In the disqualified documents that I investigate of the epoch of the Cold War, a Nimrod detect between a fishing fleet of the Warsaw Pact an emission band G(NATO) corresponding, according to the classification, to a concrete radar of the NATO. Logically after investigating a submarine there did not exist the presence of any warship in the area.

Could Soviets AGIs "disturb" the electronic sign to create this frequency and to be deceptive to the sensors?.

Thank you again.

Javier.

[PingDit]

As you will see from 'Jane's Weapon Systems' publications, some old Soviet submarines and AGI's carried the same radar fit.

[Courtney Mil]

A lot of very probing questions about some very sensitive operations. We may, hopefully, have the capability to conduct those ops again one day. Too much information?

[Pontius Navigator]

JG, submarines have been known to use the cover of fishing fleets for many years. This was done during WW2. There is of course a problem with a submarine intruding unknown into a fishing fleet - nets.

[Yellow Sun]

Javie, just Google "Tracsvan" and apply some thought.

YS

[Javie Guerrero]

Thanks to all for the "awkward" answers. Sun Yellow very good the link I understand what you say, but … … half / half.

To finish, if someone feels curiosity by what I am investigated, nicely I can share the information that I arrange (docs and maps). We speak it for deprived.

Thank you very much to all.

[GalleyTeapot]

A lot of very probing questions about some very sensitive operations. We may, hopefully, have the capability to conduct those ops again one day.

But don't hold your breath!

[MFC_Fly]

A lot of very probing questions about some very sensitive operations. We may, hopefully, have the capability to conduct those ops again one day. But don't hold your breath! Just because the UK no longer conduct MPA operations doesn't mean to say that our allies don't! People really should remember the old security line - "Need to know".

[Pontius Navigator]

Just because the UK no longer conduct MPA operations doesn't mean to say that our allies don't! People really should remember the old security line - "Need to know".

A Valkenberg, over 30 years ago, one of the Dutch middies asked how we found submarines.

I explained the field, LCL, LCD, Hi-Fix. "No, no", he said "How do you know where to sow the field?"

Ah, that was the question not withstanding John Pack and THAT Panorama programme :)

[Party Animal]

Just because the UK no longer conduct MPA operations


The UK STILL conducts MPA ops. We just use Allied MPA to conduct them with! :oh:

[Janda]

PN If you mean the Cold Deep War with Tom Mangold I was part of the crew that spent a week with the Panorama team in July 77. Lots of things were revealed in that programme I seem to remember. Anyone know if there are copies of it still around?