Defence Estate Rationalisation

[Easy Street]

http://www.parliament.uk/documents/commons-vote-office/March-2013/25.3.13/2.DEFENCE-Defence-Estate-Rationalisation-Update.pdf

Highlights:


Lightning II to be based at RAF Marham
1(F) and 6 Sqns to transfer to RAF Lossiemouth by autumn 2014 and Leuchars to transfer to Army
6 FP Wg and 58 Sqn RAF Regt to be disbanded
RAF Wyton airfield to close by mid-2014
57(R) Sqn (Wyton EFT) to relocate to Cranwell by mid-2013
Cambridge, London and East Mids UASs, 5 AEF and 115(R) Sqn (EFT CFS) to relocate to Wittering by mid-2014
RAF Church Fenton to close by end-2013
Yorkshire UAS and 9 AEF to relocate to as-yet undecided location
ScATCC (Mil) to close

Fair bit to talk about there... can I start by saying that:


I bet the SNP whinge about the Lightning II decision, even though Lossie will end up with 3 Typhoon squadrons.
Sad to see Wyton airfield close for a second time.
"London" UAS? At Wittering?! On that basis, expect Yorkshire UAS to go there too!
Wittering Mess could become "party central", of the kind not seen since the closure of RAF Newton. Oh to be a 22-year-old holding officer with a room conveniently located close to the bar and a ready supply of UAS 'ladies'...

[Lima Juliet]

I wasn't expecting to see Wyton fold so soon. Anyone know what will happen to Pathfinder Flying Club and Meridian Microlight Club?

LJ

[Corporal Clott]

It looks pretty terminal for Wyton's airfield with remarks like:

We are working closely with the Homes and Communities Agency on the possibility of them acquiring part of the Wyton airfield since it has potential for new housing growth as identified in Huntingdon District Council's emerging Local Plan.

:{

[Wander00]

20 years ago when Wyton was "due to close" the investment appraisal was based on proceeds of sale of the airfield. however, as with many "expansion" airfields, ISTR the ownership reverts to the landowner from whom it was bought pre-war - at the same price (ie not inflated) - so a few thousand pounds. Watch this space.............................

[salad-dodger]

Be interesting to hear the clean up plans for the Wyton airfield. Rumours have circulated for years about the various crap that has either leaked into, or been buried on the airfield.

S-D

[althenick]

I have often wondered why with all the money that is being p1ssed to the wall on estates that nobody has ever thought of co-locating smaller units into the bigger bases, even if it means different services sharing the same estate.
For example

3 TA Units in Ayr, Prestwick and Irvine yet there is HMS Gannet with unused Ground an facilities

A TA Unit less than 2 miles from HMS Condor

2 TA Units in spitting distance of Faslane

Surely getting rid of these properties would save running costs and add justification to retaining the bigger bases

I dare say there 100's more

Al

[Lima Juliet]

I bet the SNP whinge about the Lightning II decision, even though Lossie will end up with 3 Typhoon squadrons

Maybe the Govt have worked out what to do with the first Tranche of Typhoon nearing the end of RAF service after 2014...:E

Ssshhh! No-one tell them...

[Lima Juliet]

Aside from Brampton moving into Wyton for the great Intel 'love in', there is also 42 Eng Regt moving in. I don't see much room for any aircraft. I reckon flying is finished for good...:sad:

[brokenlink]

S-D - From talking to various people over the years Wyton had 2 fully loaded PFF Lancasters blow up on dispersal - did all the munitions cook off or did some go up, come down and bury themselves in the soil? There was also a Meteor crash on the airfield in the fifties not to mention any fuel leakage from the BFI etc. I think the last time the site was mooted as being up for sale the remediation costs might have outweighed the sale value.

[salad-dodger]

brokenlink, sounds like we heard the same rumours:

add to that fuel, oils and other contaminants washed off the pans following spillages. Spillages from the WWII HALO runway lighting and the rumours of what was buried around the site after the end of WWII.

I'm sure it's possible to clean up the ground, but not sure I'd like to live there. Too close to Ramsey anyway:E

S-D

[WhiteOvies]

At least Wyton is staying partially open! One of the bases both my Grandfather and I served at. Him on PFF Lancs and me at DE&S, separated by some 62 years.

When I was at Wittering all the nurses from Peterborough were also accomodated there. Party Central sounds about right..... ;-)

[salad-dodger]

Surely it can't continue to be known as RAF Wyton? It's bound to end up called so and so Barracks or some such Army title.

Anyone in the know?

S-D

[Pontius Navigator]

How about naming it after a General, Trenchard for instance?

Digressing, while our young officers become aware of Trenchard and Tedder how many others do they learn about and know? Harris probably and Dowding possibly. Others?

Then squadrons. My first sqn was just two types removed from its wartime aircraft and still in its primary bomber role as was the second and indeed the third. Now, with reserve sqns badged to keep the number plates alive how many know their sqn histories? Not the simple paragraphs on web sites but the more meaningful and detailed ones.

[airborne_artist]

Expect news on Benson's future very soon. The 06/24 runway has resurfacing trucks on it right now :\

[Jimlad1]

Althenick - the problem with TA centres is one of ownership - I believe they are "owned" by RFCA, which can make disposal problematic.

[just another jocky]

LJ - fixed-wing flying will cease at Wyton forever. The plans for a new housing estate take out virtually all the runway. Sad, but true.

I don't think it will be long until the station takes on a new name that doesn't involve RAF in the title since there are so many Army & Navy uniforms arriving.

What will happen to the Canberra gate guard too?

[Whenurhappy]

Wyton was subject to a huge amount of remediation in the 1990s (especially around the 'Photo factory'). It is an urban myth that Wyton has to revert to its original owners (same myth perpertuated about Halton, inter alia). The land for Wyton was purchased by the Air Ministry during the expansion programme, as were all the other 'Expansion Phase' airfields. Only the airfields constructed in a hurry after 1938 that were requisitioned under Emergency powers legislation - such as Lyneham - and are thus offered back to the original owners at the unimproved value.

I suspect that the RAF Stan Cdr role will go when flying ceases at Wyton; in real terms the Stn Cdr is COS J1-9 under the ICG 1*, without the interesting bits.

[sedburgh]

How about naming it after a General, Trenchard for instance?
That's already been done, ex-RAF Upavon is Trenchard Lines.

[Wander00]

WhenurH - not urban myth, researched carefully early 90s (I know, I was involved as OC Handbrakes). Halton House (don't know about the estate) also reverts, in that case to the Rothschilds. In Wyton case in the early 90s it blew the investment appraisal, and "Yours aye (I) Wy(i)n" not too happy!

[Party Animal]

Digressing, while our young officers become aware of Trenchard and Tedder how many others do they learn about and know? Harris probably and Dowding possibly. Others?




Continuing with the digression whilst thinking about PN's question. How many VSO's in RAF history are worth learning about? Anyone at all in the last 50 years?

Same with aces. Have there been any post WW2?

[BEagle]

3."London" UAS? At Wittering?! On that basis, expect Yorkshire UAS to go there too!


Hmmm. When I was a ULAS student back in the days of horse-drawn Avgas bowsers, we flew from White Waltham. This was only 29 miles from our THQ in Brompton Road and about 4 miles from Maidenhead railway station. So a quick mid-week afternoon's Chipmunkery was often possible, particularly if one was an APO and could afford one's own car.

Then the squadron moved to RAF Abingdon, some 62 miles from THQ and 8 miles from Didcot railway station.

When Abingdon was pongo-ed, the squadron moved to Benson - only 47 miles from London and 9 miles from Didcot railway station.

But the next folly was to move to RAF Wyton, some 73 miles from THQ, but only 3 miles from Huntingdon railway station.

However Wittering? Wittering?? That's 90 miles up the A1 from THQ, 'close to London' only in Ryanair terms. The nearest mainline railway station is 11 miles away in Peterborough!

Now that there are only a handful of regular RAF instructors at Wyton, the rest being FTRS mercenaries, I'd be intrigued to know how many will simply hand in their boots and tell the RAF to find some other mug.....:mad:

[aw ditor]

Cambridgeshire and nearby is already awash with former airfield "building sites", Oakington, Alconbury, and Waterbeach to name but three. The infrastructure is not there/here to support massive expansion. The A14 jammed on a daily basis, hospitals and schools maxed out'. Last thing needed is more houses at Wyton!!

[Roland Pulfrew]

Wander00

Halton House (don't know about the estate) also reverts, in that case to the Rothschilds

Really? The "tour" says that it is an urban myth and I am pretty sure that there is a bill of sale that details the purchase of the house and estate from the Rothschilds by the War Ministry. Although I do enjoy the urban myth that the RAF have to return HH to the Rothschilds in the standard that it was "sold" to us; apparently we can't afford to replace all the gold leaf that has been replaced by gold paint. :}

[Top West 50]

The Press, Selby edition, announces that Church Fenton is to close and that Units based there, including Yorkshire University (sic) Air Squadron, will relocate to other bases. Any ideas for "other bases?" Leeming should be pretty convenient for Sheffield?

[Kitbag]

Same with aces. Have there been any post WW2?

Be fair, the UK hasn't been involved in a credible shooting war with the exception of the Falklands unlike the US, Israel, Egypt, Syria, Iran, India, Pakistan, USSR, China, N Korea, N Vietnam. Perhaps we should be grateful for that.

[brokenlink]

Just Another Jockey - Airframe has just been cleaned in preparation for a limited amount of repair (mainly tailfin as its is missing some canvas and there is some rot present). It will then be repainted by the station.
BL

[pr00ne]

Top West 50,

Linton On Ouse or maybe Topcliffe, that's if they survive the next round of rationalisation that MFTS will bring about...

Kitbag,

You have just insulted the memory of many hundreds of folk killed in action since 82.

What the hell is a credible shooting war in your mind? Since 82 we have had aircrew killed when their aircraft were shot down by AA or SAM's, infantry and others killed in large numbers and many other men and women killed or maimed in what to them I'm sure seemed like pretty "credible shooting" wars.

Crass post.

[nice castle]

Given the Merlins are upping sticks from benson, one would have thought ULAS could have been put back there. Wittering? Kn*bheads...

And getting rid of Leuchars. Oh my, the memories I have of that place.:ok:

Ho hum. Back to the question bank...

[Lima Juliet]

Proone - calm down dear! Seeing as kitbag's post is about "aces" (ie. those that have 5 or more air to air kills) then he is quite correct - we have not been in a credible air to air shooting war since the Falklands. In the Gulf Wars, Bosnia and Afghanistan the enemy simply haven't fronted up in opposing fighter aircraft.

All - Halton House and the Halton Park estate was bought freehold for £114k in 1918 and so it is ours - no strings attached. That said, the House is listed, as is Henderson Parade Square and its buildings, so you can't do too much to it. The Rothschilds hated Halton House and couldn't wait to get rid of it - it was an austentacious gaudy bauble and the Edwardian equivalent of 'Beckham Manor' :yuk:
Isn't it funny how taste changes?

LJ

[Kitbag]

LJ, absolutely correct, thank you.
Proone, since 1982 the UK has not been involved in 'symmetrical' warfare, therefore the opportunity to engage aerial targets has been virtually non-existent. Believe me, I feel saddened by all the deaths and injuries sustained by British servicemen throughout the years, probably more so than the politicians who sent them there in the first place.

You don't contribute to the Daily Mail do you?



Is it just me, everytime i write P r o o n e I get Pprune?

[Finningley Boy]

Because the R.A.F. haven't been compelled to shoot down other aircraft, much, since 1945 is one of the reasons that Sharkey Ward gets on his high Horse!:}

FB:)

[BlindWingy]

Deterrence. By the time the enemy recognize you are weak enough to shoot at, you've already failed. Keep slashing the RAF, and that crucial ability to deter will be lost, leading to even more costly wars and loss of life.

[chopd95]

En passant, I note that both the Lightning and Canberra have been removed from BAE Samlesbury