CX Cabin Service

[etopsmonkey]

Anyone here noticed that cabin service level have deteriorated quite evidently in the pass 5 years? 5 years, as a passenger, I can still remember service with a warm smile. Today, no smiles at all. I thought their industrial action is over. It is not just to me, but to everyone in the cabin. In fact, some crews were just being rude to the passengers (they can't all be staff/family). The crews were like "ordering" the pax to lower the blinds, instead of a "request".

With this kind of service level, I can really see some up and coming airlines in the region overtaking CX in the next decade or two. Just flew VN and TG, amazing service.

[SloppyJoe]

Bet it was a flight that never saw sunlight but still the blinds have to come down. You would think after doing this job for 20+ years an ISM would know which flights the sun is not going to shine on.

[Flyer jazz]

Many of them are not well trained and its easy to pass their so called training. How often do you hear someone fail? They don't treat it like a career, in fact just cheap tickets and hotels that they cannot afford. I am sick and tired of their attitude. But once it comes to protesting, they are all in and want more money! :*

[nitpicker330]

So at night you'd rather see the bright double flash strobes, lightening flashes etc instead of closing the blinds for a restful sleep??? Especially in cloud...

Yes they can reflect on the fittings inside the window and can be annoying.
( ok single flash on the 777 but they're even brighter )

[Flap10]

What do you expect when they are treated and paid like sh!t by the company. You think the cockpit crew are all smiles??? :ugh::ugh:

[nitpicker330]

As for the cabin "service" CX cabin crew haven't changed much in 20 years. It all comes down to the ISM, have a good ISM and the service delivery is good. ( including the service to the flight deck ) yes there are some crews that drop the ball but they are few and far between.

Try QF if you want attitude and bad service!!!!!!!

[Flyer jazz]

What a joke! So you think "smiles" changes with pay?? Is this freakin Wanchai? Thats what they sign up for. If you are unhappy about the pay, why join?

[Flyer jazz]

Many swap to fly with friends and they launch a Cantonese fiesta in the galley. When the ISM is checking on them, they will just get back to work. :ugh: Talking about bad service, of course you can't compare with QF. The price is diff too!

[etopsmonkey]

Let me see. Blinds need to be lower at night, over the middle of the Pacific. While the passenger next to me turn out the bright overhead reading light. Hmmm .... which is one more disruptive to the neighboring / sleeping passenger?

[Old Fella]

Why don't you use the system any other passenger has access to. It is not too hard to give the Company feedback via the Customer Relations Department.

[stilton]

Don't see why a flight attendant should ever tell a passenger what to do with their window shade, they bought the ticket it should be up to them.

[Flap10]

Flyer Jazz

You're obviously a newbie and judging by your other posts you seem to have an issue with Hong Kong and the people of Hong Kong.....why don't you ask yourself the same question?? Why did you join????

[Flyer jazz]

Well come on, I didn't join cx because I like Hong Kong people, you join for your career. Did you join cx because you like noodles? Even though I am a SO I have seen a lot and hear a lot enough to give a judgement. Have you seen many people joining to be a CC for life long career prospect? Not tweaking the fact that they have no smiles! :*

[Flap10]

Flyer Jazz,

So you joined CX to better your career but you hate Hong Kong and its people...Sh!t ...you then have the nerve to say "I am sick and tired of their attitude." Sorry to say but you've just come across as spoiled arrogant little brat who wants his cake and eat it too.

You obviously haven't been here long enough to make a judgment, otherwise you would have known that the majority of CC actually do stay for the long term. Why don't you try and interact with them as opposed to expecting a cappuccino in the middle of their service. As someone pointed out you have some good and bad apples. No different I am sure then some of the Captains you fly with.

[Flyer jazz]

Comments here are generally unanimous. The bad and the ugly, not wholly biased.

[Flyer jazz]

Oh woah their career do make a living, then stop all the industrial threatening and scrambling down the aisle back to their few seats ASAP like what Curtain Rod mentioned. Those who are in the long run are tied down to this industry if you asked. Basic way of requesting passengers to do certain things become a demand, supposed quiet cabin becomes echoes of their disruptive discussions. All these due to crappy pay??

[Flyer jazz]

Curtain Rod -

"Even in J class, if you're not maintaining a high level of alertness while continuously avoiding conversations while keeping the television off, you have no chance of seeing and stopping the high-speed passes by the 1 cabin crew that whizzes by every couple of hours with a bottle of water. They are just pretending to be interested in serving you water. In reality, they are forced to appear interested and simply want to return to their crew seat as fast as possible, where they can continue their extremely loud and disruptive discussions with each other while ignoring most of the passengers who must venture to the galley to find a glass of water, or, imagine, some juice, a can of coke, or (annoyingly) a snack."

CHECKED!

[Kasompe]

FlyerJazz,
I think there are bad apples in any group, and we as pilots certainly have our fair share. But, I think that for the most part our cabin crew do an excellent job under ever increasingly difficult working conditions. While different to ours, their job is actually quite hard work and very tiring. And whilst you complain about them talking to each other in the galley, what do YOU do on the flightdeck? Do you sit in silence? Perhaps read the Part A? Or do you chat with your colleague?
Finally, I have always found that the cabin crew respond to the way you interact with them....be friendly, chat and smile and they will respond in kind. Behave like a jumped up, arrogant little prick and you most certainly will create a very long flight for you and your colleagues.:ok:

[Flyer jazz]

Well the flight deck is not where passengers rest, is it? The first and business class might deliver good service but definitely not economy.

What we do is very technical. Presenting to you, Bad Service In Y+ - FlyerTalk Forums (http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/cathay-pacific-asia-miles/1448775-bad-service-y.html)for those who think i am biased. Accounts from paying pax.

[Flyer jazz]

Kasompe,

Spend some time and you will notice the dissatisfaction is worldwide. They did not join to deliver Service Straight From The Heart, they join for their cheap traveling. I know many people who are total b*tches when they are not at work. Cabin services are almost standardized in many major airlines, despite their working conditions, why can NH, OZ, SQ or TG deliver so much better than CX? :}

[Threethirty]

Flyerjazz, I think you'll find that people who have been in Cathay any length of time become institutionalized, actually that's true for most people in Hong Kong. They cannot see how much better things are outside of this extremely myopic bubble that they exist in.

[SMOC]

CX now edit all the Inflight entertainment for content, it still says the movies are R rated with all the coding (S, V, L, D, N, etc). The language is removed and scenes cut, TV series have entire episodes removed yet say "full season" clearly CX has decided it will provide parental guidance! Dumb :mad:

[Kasompe]

Well, Flyer Jazz,
You have all the answers. Can't wait to fly with you and learn from your vast vat of knowledge.:ok:

[geh065]

Its fairly typical of the attitude of the current generation of Second Officers (Non-locals I might add). 80s child perhaps? Acting like one either way.

why can NH, OZ, SQ or TG deliver so much better than CX?

I guess thats why CX never wins any awards and all those airlines do consistantly?

You will find that all airlines have passengers vocal in complaining about their service. The happy ones don't. We carry several million passengers a year. How many are complaining publicly? 0.1%?

[wongsuzie]

Good time to remind you the CA is there primarily for safety and the operate the AED when you have your heart attack.

Cx is not the airline from down south..pls review who opend the door at TPE as the hull ignited in a fire ball,hint:not the barefoot [slippers got blown off] hysterical girl in a Sarong.

[Flyer jazz]

geh065, how is the attitude of SOs de facto of cabin service and awards? please be reminded of the cx flight attendant who threatened to throw coffee to a pax and left the job? That was the most stupid story ever.

[Flap10]

threethirty

Since I seem to be living in this myopic bubble, can you please enlighten us in which way things are so much better outside of Hong Kong???

You just reminded me of several miserable grumpy individuals that blame Hong Kong for everything. They are all closed minded and have a much higher expectations of this place than where they come from. They generally do absolutely nothing on their days off and have a non existent social life. They do love to complain however about all the negativity of Hong Kong because it justifies their pessimistic attitude. What's ironic though is that they are under a hopeless illusion that if they go back home they are somehow going to be this born again full of life happy go lucky guy. Sadly it's never the case because really the root of the negativity isn't Hong Kong itself.

[Flyer jazz]

Flap10, may I refer you to this thread:
http://www.pprune.org/south-asia-far-east-wannabes/509006-living-hong-kong-working-cathay-pacific.html

Hong Kong has its ups and downs, discussing about the downside doesn't make you a grumpy person. Sometimes you know better only after moving to HK. How many are willing to continue to stay in HK after their 6 yr contract? I know many who moved on to EK.

Curtain Rod, GOOD ONE!

[etopsmonkey]

The girls might do this job just for the money, opportunity to travel, and cheap tickets for family and bfs, but that's no excuse to be unprofessional when they are on the job. I have seem many times the cabin crew being disinterested and indifferent to the passengers (especially travelling staff). If part of your job is service from the heart, at least act like it, that's what you are getting pay for.

Some pilots may just do the job and stick with the company only for the money, but ALL pilots do it with the highest degree of professionalism (even when pissed off by the company). Otherwise there would be holes in the ground.

[wongsuzie]

''Passengers sitting in exit rows over the wings are instructed every flight (with 5 seconds of training) on how to open those doors, and are expected to do so..

I think you have been watching too many Leslie Neilsen Airplane movies..

The beautiful Tropical livery fireball:

USA Today Andrew Perrin:

Jet crew did more harm than good, survivors say (http://www.singapore-window.org/sw00/001103us.htm)

[Flyer jazz]

Etopsmonkey,

very well said. Matter of fact, how many years was a pilot trained? And how many weeks do you train a flight attendant? Many of them have no basic aviation knowledge / common sense and many of our conversations cracked me up! Gimme a break !


Let me quote from an earlier thread, "Many generalisations here, but alas, most are true about the HKG cabin crew. Some months ago I overheard some very junior crew make some very offensive comments about one of the FO's on the crew behind his back. I can understand Cantonese fairly well, although speaking it I find difficult. When I approached the persons involved, with the backing of the Malaysian ISM, they were genuinely shocked that I had understood and proceeded to apologise to the bewildered FO. Afterwards, they were giggling and laughing as if nothing had happened."


or what about, "Recently did a flight, was on the bus and as the girls came on after us we all said "hi." Well about 5 (all locals) just blatantly ignored us. By the 3rd one I'd had enough so stood up and very loudly (in a joking way) said "hi" with a big smile and put my hand out to them, they looked lost! I joked and said why you not saying hello to us? Do we smell? and laughed. All of the girls who had ignored us didn't even smile and just sat on their mobile phones chatting. Utter rudeness. On the bus discussed this with the ISM and said how I thought it only polite that these girls should say hi to their Captain when he says hi to them first. She just said to me "Well you get what you pay for, half of them even ignore me!" She then told me that the basic is low and they all hate the job, use it as a stepping stone and just don't care. I also had to make 2 calls to the back at some point, none of them understood my basic english and in the end I gave up and called the ISM and got her to do what I was requesting! She then came up to the flight deck and said this is a huge problem she is facing with them not understanding basic english."


Hooroo mate! :ugh:

[Threethirty]

Flaps 10 you're right about HK, I'm wrong, the pollution isn't a problem, the living spaces here are just exceptional, it's great to be able to drink oneself into a stupor every night of the week, there aren't many bankers and lawyers in HK but the ones that are here are just such charitable; kind role models, the freedom to move around in such an open and serene space lifts ones spirits, the constant barking and shouting of mainland Chinese is music to anyones ears. I have absolutely no life and just sit and fester in my 600 sq foot box and have no social life whatsoever. Can you be my friend?

[wongsuzie]

Do make such a big deal about non-fraternizing with the new Gen iphone girls/boys,last time 9 nationalities [with some, no need to even initiate 'hello' even!] and it was a different generation of girls.

Of course you're going get gossip in the cabin and I might add, in the Flgt deck too..

[wongsuzie]

Flyerjazz you trying to have an conversation about basic aviation with the CA?!!

No wonder they run away from you.

[Flyer jazz]

Suzie, sry to say that but you sound totally snobbish here. Since you like hk so much, good luck to your life long endeavor in exploring the finest things hk has to offer you and may your kids grow up with the wonderful education and values this city is providing y'all. Oh btw, have you not sat in the exit row and enjoyed the 5min briefing? :D and by nationalities you mean on a typical flight you get to socialise with, most BC are Chinese from mainly hk or some tw, maybe one or two JP/KR. FP range from Indonesian, Indian, more Chinese and some VN, SP and ISM typically Thai or Pinoy? What a strong international combo! :ok:

[Flyer jazz]

Suzie, are you also one of those iPhone dork who cannot socialize without the latest generation iPhone? Oh wait, let me check in at this restaurant and snap lots of shots of the foie gras i have never seen in HK. Or do you socialise with your pay check or your charismatic forte? Kudos to you tryin to sound all defensive here, but most ppruners do not agree to you. :eek: Well I hope you enjoy your wonderful conversations with excellent coworkers of marvelous English and totally not after your money, not after the fact you are a Gwei lo, (but Straight from The Heart!), at the same time don't forget to take in a deep breath of that splendid fresh hk air. Nei hou!



Seems like you are one of those weird guys who have an eccentric obsession with hk culture and Chinese people, those who want to learn cantonese, marry a local and send their kids to a local school. Those who never look back after moving to hk and wholly embrace it! :ok:

[Flyer jazz]

Also I suppose you left out my previous post from third party testimonials, traveled frequently on cx and totally unbiased.

Bad Service In Y+ - FlyerTalk Forums (http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/cathay-pacific-asia-miles/1448775-bad-service-y.html)

[sled dog]

I last flew with CX a couple of years ago ( Frankfurt-HK- Brisbane and return ) and i found the service on each leg very good and friendly. Sorry to hear that things seemed to have changed. I agree with a previous post ref QF :yuk:

[bushveld]

I just returned home after doing CDG-HKG-CDG to see the 7s. I have to say that the cabin service was excellent in both directions, as good and better as any of the many other airlines I have used in the last 12 months. It's not all bad out there!

[Flyer jazz]

Then it must be weird why this thread has started, especially from pilots actually working from cx who have seen the good bad and ugly. :D is it a best kept secret they are generally more polite to foreigners as compared to Chinese pax? Now lets observe.

[Kasompe]

Flyer Jazz,
I take it all back. I REALLY hope I never have to suffer sitting next to you on a flightdeck.
:ugh:

[Max Reheat]

Flyer Jazz,

Don't you see that you are the root of the problem.
As the pilots of the flight we are the team leaders, it is up to us to make the effort. You cannot expect a 22 year old CA to make the running when it comes to converstaion, unless of course she is after something more than just a friendly chat whilst the other pilot is in the loo.
Of course though, no CA is going to want more than a friendly chat with a Neanderthal like you.
Our girls are fine. As with any profession from any culture there are good and bad, and you are clearly of the bad!

Now, shut up.

[geh065]

What he said :D

[goingdown]

+1
Flyer jazz get a life!

[wheels up]

In a different life, before joining cx, I had the misfortune of flying frequently in economy on many different airlines. I find the cx business class service consistently good - however the service in economy is indifferent at best. What always strikes me is how the girls never smile and how stressed and agitated they look - it really feels like they're doing you a favour by serving you. Recently flew KLM economy and the difference in service was chalk and cheese.

Then again, one only has to go to any shop in Hong Kong and experience the indifferent service to appreciate where the problem originates. Still better than the American airlines though!

I for one would not like the cabin crew job - it must be very hard to smile and be gracious when you're tired and serving some demanding economy passenger. However, it makes a huge difference to ones overall perception of the service, and indeed the airline.

[nitpicker330]

+2
Don't let the door wack your ass on the way out.......:D

[Flap10]

Threethirty


Can you be my friend?


No thanks....I enjoy my time here too much to hang around with miserable grumpy twats. If you happen to be one those iCadets, then I have no sympathy for you. You were warned repeatedly about the high cost of living in HKG, You accepted the package, either make the best of it or leave. Simple!!!

[Flyer jazz]

Still, no one answered, why can NH, OZ, SQ or TG deliver so much better than CX? lets say under the same stress? Perfect answer anyone?

[tsimbeit]

The answer:

TG got rid of all their expat pilots, very few left in SQ, that made the difference.

[Pomerian]

why can NH, OZ, SQ or TG deliver so much better than CX?

can you tell the difference of crewing level in all these airline?

lets say under the same stress?

the manpower difference would make a big difference to the stress level.


I do agree that sometimes the crew are un-necessarily rushing to finish the service. however, the service is generally nice and fine except to some pax that are obviously over-demanding like they could never ask things in one-go but to tell the gals to go back and forth lots of times with only one thing at one time.

while service to cockpit, are you expecting a cappuccino in the middle of the pax service can be served at once? I would say dun expect the gals are willing to chat with you afterwards

[wongsuzie]

I got it, they just don't like your face.

Yeah cup noodles at TOD is a bit much.

On the flip side sometimes cannot get them to leave the flightdeck, so it must be you then.

[Flyer jazz]

I do agree that sometimes the crew are un-necessarily rushing to finish the service. however, the service is generally nice and fine except to some pax that are obviously over-demanding like they could never ask things in one-go but to tell the gals to go back and forth lots of times with only one thing at one time.


Are you generalizing there are many many over demanding pax when you are not even there? Are you also blaming all those CC's indifference and loud chattering and no smiles to every pax out there? Its high time they stop the blame on the pax or management and reflect on themselves! Excuses on others can only take you so far.


Let me add on, the quality also depends where the CC come from and where they are based. Do you think if you let a group of Honkeys serve at NH or OZ they would be fantastic? :eek:


I apologize if I sound like a rowdy ppruner here but I am just so cheesed off at my own airline! Sure everyone has a fair share.

[Pomerian]

I am talking about in general it's not bad. and the demanding pax is just one example. And I am not trying to shift the responsibility to anyone. As someone posted before, there are good and bad people. do you think it's also fair to over-generalise that all hkg gals are not providing good service?
surely that's demoralising to lots of hkg gals that consistently giving out good service.

Again, not shifting the blame to management, but they do have a share on it. When they only think of cutting cost, they are trying to cut short of cc's training as well. That does play a big part in the service standard too.

[Flyer jazz]

Good on ya! But many would never be caught dead dating one of the honkeys (kong lui). :ok:

[badairsucker]

Flyer Jazz,

You sound like an overbearing, arrogant, racist and insular iCadet that I have to sit next to hour upon hour. This place really is going down hill fast.

Don't like it here, Fu@K off home then.....

[Kasompe]

What Badair said!!:ok:

[badairsucker]

yes gents,

you get what you pay for!!!!1:ugh::ugh::ugh::ugh::ugh:

[Kasompe]

It's depressing to see a once revered airline sinking this low...and the "managers".....and I use the word in its loosest possible sense....who are orchestrating this sorry mess will be long gone when the results of such a poor experiment finally come to fruition.
Having to share a flightdeck with the likes of Flyer Jazz et al is going to be a woeful and painful experience.
How times change.:ugh:

[Flyer jazz]

Does living in hkg mean I have to embrace honkeys and high maintenance powder coated hello kitties? Or perhaps you might identify as one of those sudden-second-to-fame guys who couldn't get yourself a decent gf/wife back home but surprising got a honkey girl after you flashed your cx ID? Congrats to you, in years to come, you will be one of those grumpy captains complaining how your first hkg wife asked you to swap for MXP flights so you can buy her guccis, how your second wife suggested fancy holidays ideas just because your paying for everything. Why not also chip in to her own little venture of a bistro because she cant afford to. Whist receiving your money, she b*tches to her honkey friends that the divorce was all your fault. Mean time, you continue to nag about cx pay and housing allowance because you have already wasted so much money and don't know how to save. Now I am outta here mate! This thread is going down hill.

[badairsucker]

FJ,

For your info.
I'm sat at home in Hong Kong, beer in hand bought to me by my very nice domestic helper.
My western wife is driving my very nice new western built car back to our lovely big house which we have bought thanks to my package given to me over a decade ago.
Off to work tomorrow for a nice overnight which means it's a regional trip and I don't have to put up with your drivel in the cockpit.

I for one am very happy with my lot in HK.
You have issues, please leave and crawl back under what every godforsaken rock you were dragged up under.
I'm sure your parents must be very proud of your sentiments on here.

[Kasompe]

Flyer Jazz,
You truly are a nauseating person. That YOU have so much derision for our Cabin Crew would be laughable were it not so downright offensive. How you can tar 12,000 odd crew with the same brush just demonstrates your lack of intellect and your racist arrogance.
I pray that I never have the misfortune to fly with you, and I sincerely hope that you are consistently treated with the contempt you deserve on your flights by the entire crew.
Oh, and I would like to suggest that it is YOU that is unable to find a decent wife/girlfriend of ANY nationality. I can't imagine any woman would be able to stand more than a few minutes in your company.:yuk:

[Flyer jazz]

Well well, this is a clear manifestation you haven't heard enough stories. Till then you got to hats off to me. And please don't say it's 120,000 when almost half of them are married with or without kids, part of them divorced and also some of them "chose" to stay single. I have respect for most ISM though but others, lets just say I'd rather stay forever in intoxication of my Pensfold Grange.

Sad but true, more CXers now take the length to commute home than live in hkg with such dim sum culture. :D def leaving kittyland after the bond.

[Kasompe]

Flyer,
Are you sober when you write your posts? I ask because they barely make any sense. And I said 12,000, not 120,000.
Anyway, here's to the completion of your bond! May the time pass quickly!:ok:
I'd like to say how we will all miss you! But I can't......

[badairsucker]

I'd love to know who would take him???

Clearly an inexperienced aviator, coupled with such immature arrogance.

I hope you leave real soon.:ugh::ugh::ugh::ugh::ugh:

As a side note, well done CX, this is what you are employing!!!!!!

[betpump5]

Jazzy Baby,

I am surprised by the hate in your multiple posts. This is something I would expect only from the meanest long-sleeved-gold-cuff-linked captains out there. But through your own admission you are just an SO!

And judging by your posts, a very new one. Not one who has served 3.5-4 years.

Yet your posts are written with such disdain for our CC. In over 10 years at CX, I can not remember an occasion that was bad enough for me to want to comment on pprune about it. Yet you make it sound like our CC are not worthy enough to undo the straps on your sandals (I'm in Holy Week mode btw hence the quote).

Again this from an SO!

Putting my Freud cap on, I have come to the following conclusions as to why you have this bone to pick :

1. You are a spoilt child, a King, who expects to be waited on hand and foot

Or

2. You have been bitten by a CC who did not take a fancy to you

Or

3. You're a :mad:

[Kasompe]

Personally, my money is on 3!!!:ok:

[wongsuzie]

fjazz,sour grapes eh? sounds like you had a bad experience with the girl[s].

Yes, it's tough to be treated as 'invisible' and BTW you are definetly in their little black book rest assured the feeling is mutual.

And if you dare, go look at the CC gossip website they talking about someone who exactly fits your description.

[Old Fella]

Moderators, where in the hell are you? Surely this thread is a windup!! FlyerJazz has hijacked the thread with unacceptable hyperbole and bulldust, let alone racist comment. This superior being needs to be banned.

[goingdown]

Flyer jazz is obviously one of those recently hired prick with a bond over his head.

[Kasompe]

Thankfully the vast majority of new hires I've had the pleasure of flying with have in no way displayed "Flyer Jazz-like tendencies"!!
I think Flyer joined the wrong airline for him and now regrets it, but is trapped. But, like he says, as soon as his bond is up, he is gone! I just hope he is a man of his word!!:ok:

[SMOC]

The service has taken a bit of a hit though , some of the ISMs can barely speak english the announcements are appalling they can't even read the script without the stop start stuttering that just massacres the message. However the other day the ISM was the best I've ever heard with a creative natural welcome aboard etc. I even mentioned to her how nice it was to hear a well done intelligent announcement.

[nitpicker330]

So, my efforts to give you the best accurate ETA, the latest actual weather and the forecast are totally wasted on you?

The ETA comes straight from my Flight Management Computer sitting 12 inches away and will be accurate as long as ATC play ball, something I HAVE NO CONTROL OVER.

The weather comes from the observations in the tower and the relevant Bureau of Meteorology forecast for the airport, once again something I HAVE NO CONTROL OVER.

I only tell you the best info I have at the time, I don't lie. If you think you know better or don't want to know anything then that's your prerogative. Fortunately most punters like to know the ETA and what the weather is where they are going.

Here's a tip, next time tell the crew you don't wish to know any in-flight information and the Captain isn't to waste your precious time bothering to tell you over some ****ty PA. Don't worry about the other 300 people that do care.:D

Thanks I feel really appreciated. :sad:

[Max Reheat]

Curtain Rod...

PRAT!

[Shoebox]

Flyer jazz

When did they let you out of prison in New York? :rolleyes:

[Soul planet]

Matter of the fact, some of FJ's are true. I reckon many expats or locals have their personal views of local HKers but some chose to keep it to themselves, some broadcast it publicly. As a local guy and cx'er, I believe the description of certain hk girls are true to an extent. Perceptions are shaped by experiences and encounters. shouldn't blame others for their views. Though i studied college overseas, i grew up in HK. I know what it's like.

It's a money crazy city and you need to do what you can to survive. Some of FJ's might be hyperbole but if it doesn't occur to you nor does it hit you, why get so worked up? Unless you are fearful that the girl next to you would turnout that way, if not just ignore it. Time will always tell the truth.


I think it's best to go back to this thread title and discuss why the service is going bad instead.

[etopsmonkey]

Very well said Soul Mate. What has this thread come to? I just don't get why the attacks on FJ. What FJ said has some truths to it. Ignoring the obvious is not going to solve the problem. The problem here with CX cabin service, is that the crews are being rude and indifferent to the passengers. Although CX's service might still be (marginally) better than most (American carriers), but that's the really the point. Point is that CX market and position itself as a premium carrier, and as a passenger (full-revenue, staff standby, or otherwise), I expect superb service from the frontline/passenger-facing staff.

A trip 2 weeks ago: HKG-JFK (as a sublo). From check-in to deplaning, I didn't see a single smile. I am not exaggerating. The only time I saw smiles were at the baggage hall when the crews were collecting their baggage. At check-in, the staff didn't look at me when speaking to me, threw back my passport to me, and no "you are welcome" when I said "thank you" at the end. In flight, the cabin crews were giving "orders" and all of them had this grumpy look on their faces. One conversation I heard from one BC to another during meal service, in an annoyed/frustrated kind of tone, "Please pass me a diet coke" , "I have no more diet coke, I gave the last one to another passenger". So it is the passenger's fault that you ran out of diet cokes in your cart? Why bring the passenger into your work conversation? A more polite way would be "No problem, I will go get another one from the galley".

To me, they just seemed lazy, and cared too much about doing more extra work. I really wanted to complaint to the ISM, but I figure forget it - nothing will change; not with the kind of attitudes the cabin crew bring to work. Skills can be taught and trained, but not attitudes.

[Soul planet]

Skills can be taught and trained, but not attitudes.

Yes, exactly. I agree fully.

Sometimes we give excuses that their work is jaded or there is lots to do, but bear in mind: say for a long haul flight, they have been given a day or two rest at least beforehand; or say for a flight back to hkg, they have had double the stay & rest and double the allowance of the pilots, why are they still not bringing a positive attitude to work? There are many office workers in hkg who can't even get 4 days break in a row.

Have we (when pax-ing) or other pax overlooked the satisfaction of service as merely the IFE showing our fav blockbuster, and being provided with meals? Have we not paid enough attention to their attitudes because we are too caught up in our tv show or too tired but had to sleep, or we couldn't understand the Cantonese they are whispering behind the pax? When service is not up to expectation, are we also talking about how we define an airlines by its advertisement but the crew did not provide the "smile" it promised on tv?

Because it seems like it is not an isolated incident but a general trend of the deteriorating service.

[nitpicker330]

Curtain Rod:--- yep you're a Pratt alright.

Do us a favour and fly Chinese carriers will ya?

See how that works out for ya :D

[Cactusjack]

I am offended by the term honkey. I prefer to be called white trash or something like that thanks.

[Flap10]

Curtain Rod,
So next time you have an all important meeting somewhere, or have a tight connection to a place with limited flight schedules and the flight is boarded and then held on the ground for hours due to either technical or weather issues, you would rather sit there and not be informed at all? I mean you've boarded the airplane right, you're eventually going, so who cares what time you land at your destination. If you miss that meeting or that connecting flight no big deal. Although you could have made alternate arrangements while you were sitting on the ground dumb fat and happy if you were informed, you just prefer not having any PAs.

Always amazed me how people can live in a place where they relentlessly bash the place and its people and never leave. If you had any ounce of self respect you would leave, nobody is holding a gun to your head. "self contained universe";???? you're describing yourself.. it's people like you that are full themselves that think they should be treated like royalty because they are living here as an expat and you see yourself as above the people. You think the attitude is any different in different parts of the world??? My god have you been to Darling Harbor recently, or in New York??

[Guru]

It is unfortunate that some people have had bad experiences interacting with the local people and culture. It is most interesting and amusing to compare these stories with my own experience.

To FJ and others who share similar sentiments, have you ever wondered why your feelings are so much different from that of the large number of foreigners living in HK? Next time you decide to dismiss women of any specific nationality as shallow and indifferent or whatever else you said, be mindful that there are plenty of others who know and have met people of that same nationality belonging to the rest of the spectrum. In their eyes, you would come across as ignorant, parochial and laughable. If your distorted views of HK women upset you and lead you to think you made a mistake in coming to live here, then the rest of us pity you.

But then, perhaps you want to hold on to that opinion in order to fuel your exaggerated view of yourselves. The better natured people would wish that your misery would end soon and that you can move on to somewhere you enjoy yourselves more. But there are some who quietly enjoy the thought of you being stuck in this place for a long time.

[Soul planet]

Guru,

Thanks for your sharing. I am from hk and I think I can speak for some local women. Many are materialistic and that's why local men are turned off by them, local men can't meet their expectations, so they have to act a certain way to please foreigners to take them. As many of you expats can't understand Cantonese, do you know what are they discussing with their gfs? Discussing and comparing their bfs? Well of course I can't generalize all females but most hk women who bring themselves to foreigners are. In my very humble opinion.

[Soul planet]

Now lets cut this topic, who cares about hk women anyways. Be a man and talk about real issues (cabin services) we are addressing here. If its too boring, then move on to another thread. Stop ranting.

[nitpicker330]

Curtain Rod:- you want to hear a long rambling PA then fly any US Carrier and you'll never complain about our short and concise to the point PA's ever again.

I'm still going to give my usual shortish 35 second PA as usual before departure and my even shorter top of descent one of 20 seconds so if you still don't like it then I respectfully suggest you block your tender Ears and toughen up Princess:hmm:

[treboryelk]

As will you.....one day!

[wongsuzie]

'Honkee' is a term of endearment for local Chinese..

Other species have got their own nicks!.

Long rambling PA on US carriers yup i concur!.

[Max Reheat]

Curtain Rod,

You are really making a prat of yourself now!

The endless pointless PAs (yes, in 3 languages) at the start of the flight are mandated by law, for the people who do not know how to fasten a seatbelt or would like to know how to get out in a hurry. If you don't like it just continue reading your newspaper or listening to your music. We don't care. But DO NOT talk to your neighbour. You might stop someone who does care from getting a piece of important information. Oh, by the way, it's rude too but you wouldn't realise.

Talking of getting out in a hurry, the 3 evacuations we have had in my memory have all been conducted inside the stipulated 90 seconds. It would have been even quicker if the idiots who don't pay attention to the safety video hadn't taken their cabin baggage with them.

As for the descent PA, I'm not worried about the arrival time or the weather; especially with the amount of traffic ATC have to deal with nowadays. It'll happen when it happens, but there are plenty who do want to know. I only really make a PA to thank the cabin crew for their hard work in putting up with filth like you! Haha!

[Max Reheat]

Ah, Curtain Rod.

You need to read more slowly and digest what is being said.

I did not say the PA is not worthwhile...
I said I am not really worried about the arrival time or the weather. I cannot influence either. But I will make a PA to inform you of my best estimate to both.

You need to get off your high horse.
If you really are a pax and not a troll, go on another carrier. I am sure they will welcome you with open arms.

[crwkunt roll]

If the PA is a waste of time, how do you justify to yourself, your 2 seconds of fame when you check it during preflight?? Sure it's for safety but there are ways around it should it fail. You do sound very good on that PA check though.

[broadband circuit]

PA check???

Boeing w&*kers!!

[badairsucker]

Squabbling over a PA now,

No wonder we can't stand together and fight for a common cause.


Kind of sad really!!!!:ugh::zzz:

[raven11]

Listen to a PA on any US carrier and you'll beam with pride when comparing them to the professional PAs you will hear on CX.

The Chuck Yeager, deep throated, tone and poor grammatical references to "those seatbelt signs", and the constant "Uhs" and "Ahhs", demean the individual as well as the profession.

Say what you will about CX, but our PAs sound professional!

[SMOC]

Say what you will about CX, but our PAs sound professional

Then Unfortunately ruined by the hatchet job of a PA by the majority of ISMs

Yet the all powerful ISD will acknowledge none of it.

[Guru]

Soul Planet,

I would know what they talk about if I hear their conversation because Cantonese is my first language.

Don't you see you and I are making the same points? Some posters made a brushing statement about HK women and I pointed out the fallacy in such a generalisation. Normally I would not try to correct them but their false belief and attitude are disrespectful and would have an effect on me in that when they bring that attitude to work it gives my profession a bad name.

They appeared to have only experienced a narrow part of the whole spectrum of personalities and have come to a conclusion that is outrageously far from the truth. You said that without trying to generalise, you feel the materialistic women behave materialistically. Well, what's the difference between that and saying left-handed people tend to write with their left hands?

It is one thing to express disdain towards people of a certain character, but it is a completely different matter to paint everyone with the same brush.

[Soul planet]

Guru,

I don't know why this meaningless thread is dragging on for so long. I can only come to one conclusion, many people don't like hkg women and some are acceptable.

Well I did not say materialistic women are materialistic. I said many are. And of course when I referred to a large portion of women who are dating expats because local men can't meet their expectation - this is also true. If you are from hkg you know that, in most cases. Also known as CCB. Most of them in their 20s and 30s.

[AnAmusedReader]

Not sure it's a majority but, agreed, it is a lot.

On the other hand, some of our ISM's make outstandingly good PA's, far better than any of ours.

[Pontius]

As an outsider to CX I have to agree the cabin service has gone downhill quite rapidly in the last 5 years or so. It seems that gone are the days when 'westerners' would comment positively and attribute the excellent service to the lovely Far East approach to service industries. Doubtless those same lovely ladies who, in the past, provided such good service are now as cheesed off and jaded by the same penny-pinching and continued degradation of their terms and conditions as the rest of us are. Unfortunately, as the front-line of Cathay's customer service, they are now damaging the brand and it is having an a detrimental effect. By way of only a teeny-tiny example, my wife recently travelled from Oz to the UK and back with CX. She was in J and the price was very competitive. Not the cheapest but we thought it was worth paying the extra for the imagined improved cabin service over the other, cheaper, players. Well, that was a decision we regret and Cathay have lost another customer. I know, I know, don't let the door etc. The thing is, my wife is one of the least demanding people you will ever meet and yet she could not muster one good word to say about the Cathay experience. Several of the comments already made here were included in her description of the flights, including the lacklustre meal services, the amazing ability of the cabin crew to disappear, the sighing and tutting when she had the temerity to ask for more water (what on earth was she thinking) and the distinct impression that she was being done a HUGE favour when the crew deigned to do their job. It's something you'd expect of an American airline and certainly not one based in the Far East. Anyway, yesterday we were talking about an upcoming trip and I'd researched the various prices again. Cathay was immediately crossed off the list, with the only comment being, "I'm not travelling with them again". :(

As for the PAs, well I find myself in the Curtain Rod boat with this one. I'm very aware of the necessity of having to do certain announcements regarding seat belts, codesharing etc but, really, do we need all the bolleaux that's been spouted since the Sunderlands cut across the skies? Once upon a time the pax had no idea of what time they might be landing, the proposed route, the weather at the destination etc. Nowadays it's ALL on the IFE. It bugs the hell out of me when my movie gets interrupted by a top-of-climb lecture about all the things I can see on my screen. It REALLY bugs me when I then have to hear it all again in another one or two languages. I won't rant about my over-riding hatred of "fasten your seat belts" X 3 languages when the sign goes on and then the "keep them fastened when seated" X 3 EVERY time it goes off again :mad: To then rub salt into the wounds and have to listen to the ETA (again), the weather (again) because it's now up-to-date and all the other blurb in three languages, when I'm trying to see the end of the movie that's been interrupted so many times already, really gets my goat. The ETA is on the TV and, as Curtain Rod said, what difference does it make? You can't influence it, you can't re-plan, you can't do anything different given the information, so why repeat what's been on the screen for the last XX hours? Likewise the weather. Oh, it's 30 degrees and sunny. In that case I'll change my clothes for arriving in the air conditioned terminal. 15 degrees and raining; I'll change my clothes for arriving in the covered, dry, terminal. It makes not one iota of difference in the modern world and is complete nonsense left over from days of old when that information wasn't available to all and sundry. Clearly this is NOT aimed solely at CX and I only dragged out my soapbox because the subject was in this thread. I travel with Qantas a lot and exactly the same comments apply to them. Everybody, shut up on PA unless it's mandated and/or safety information. I have to add I do practise what I preach and refuse to do anything more than the required talking.

And now the sun looks low enough that it's time for a beer. Cheers fellow aviators :}.

[Kasompe]

Broadband,
At least the Boeing guys have time to do a PA check... The Airbus boys and girls are buried in multitude MELs during the pre departure!!:}
:ok:

[PanZa-Lead]

That's the first post You have written where you haven't said..." I hope I never fly with you"

As for the airbus I haven't had an MEL in ages. At the moment most of the delays and AOG and return to base are 777 and 747.

[PanZa-Lead]

That's the first post You have written where you haven't said..." I hope I never fly with you"

As for the airbus I haven't had an MEL in ages. At the moment most of the delays and AOG and return to base are 777 and 747.

If the PA system is not written up in the MEL as U/S why would you want to check it to make sure it is working...seems dumb to me.....and I know, I know..you dont want to fly with me...

[Kasompe]

Panza, it's a JOKE.....
Oh, nevermind....:ugh:

[PanZa-Lead]

Sorry..thought you were serious...long day

[Soul planet]

Unfortunately, as the front-line of Cathay's customer service, they are now damaging the brand and it is having an a detrimental effect. By way of only a teeny-tiny example, my wife recently travelled from Oz to the UK and back with CX. She was in J and the price was very competitive. Not the cheapest but we thought it was worth paying the extra for the imagined improved cabin service over the other, cheaper, players. Well, that was a decision we regret and Cathay have lost another customer. I know, I know, don't let the door etc. The thing is, my wife is one of the least demanding people you will ever meet and yet she could not muster one good word to say about the Cathay experience. Several of the comments already made here were included in her description of the flights, including the lacklustre meal services, the amazing ability of the cabin crew to disappear, the sighing and tutting when she had the temerity to ask for more water (what on earth was she thinking) and the distinct impression that she was being done a HUGE favour when the crew deigned to do their job. It's something you'd expect of an American airline and certainly not one based in the Far East. Anyway, yesterday we were talking about an upcoming trip and I'd researched the various prices again. Cathay was immediately crossed off the list, with the only comment being, "I'm not travelling with them again".


Once again, like I have said its not just isolated examples, but a general trend that the service is going downhill. I am embarrassed on behalf of cx. :ugh:


Another example, a CC posted on facebook

CX566! Japan again. 很期待snack box service 啊 ......15分鐘應該可以K.O 200 位passenger 吧?? — at Cathay City 國泰城.


For the benefit of those who can't understand, its - "I am so excited about the (new) snack box service! Should be able to K.O. 200 pax within 15min!" Is this Service Straight From The Heart? The CC is more excited about the reduced time serving food! Wow, good job cx on the people you recruit.

[wongsuzie]

Front line staff are cannon fodder,their hands are tied.

Every flight spent apologising to pax about service limitations or busted IFE.

But LF is so high dosen't anybody care?

[Soul planet]

I think you missed out the point that Pontius' wife was merely asking for water.

And talking about front line staff, the cashier at Wellcome is frontline, the guys at your hotel lobby are frontline, the teller counting money at the bank over the counter is frontline, the security man at your building is frontline... Come on there are many tougher jobs out there, front line.

[etopsmonkey]

Very well said Soul Planet. All front-line jobs are tough, so stop making excuses for poor service, due to high LF, demanding customers, and lack of rest. Once you are on the front-line, you should at least act more professionally.

Since the extra rest time given to the cabin crew on long haul still produces a service with attitude, maybe management should cut back the extra time - it will save on the allowances and hotel costs.

[Soul planet]

Double the allowance and double the rest, and they still complain about wanting more money whilst never reflecting on their service. I mean which other front line staff get to stay a couple of days in the hotel they can never afford in?

[CodyBlade]

Good stuff guys,and you wonder why the girls avoid you..

Oh and stop imploring the ISM to get the BCs to socialise with you -no chance.

[Soul planet]

Are you kidding me? I'd rather do my own stuff on a layover. No one is imploring anything and many men with pay check like ours are smart enough not to. Also, many pilots have great wives and girlfriends at home, so please cut that out, last thing they want to do is socialize with iPhone addicts who mostly can't speak proper English. We are not as desperate as Hong Kong girls.

[Soul planet]

I am not sure why are you taking it so personal because we, here, are directing to the services presented to us in the cabin, and comparing it as opposed to the "smile" we were promised with by cx commercial on tv, but lack of motivation and lack of willingness to provide premium services (including sighing and tutting when asked for ... water?) are experienced by many, including fellow aviators and their families, if you have read.


My intentions are to engage in a proper discussion here. Anyhow, my girlfriend has just graduated from her Law PPCL in Sydney and so sorry, I am (including many pilots of a sane mind) not any bit interested in picking up any BCs. We have loving wives and girlfriends and oh, do you even know anything about cx culture? Since you are discussing it on a more personal level, let me share an anecdote here - shared with by my friend's sister after I discussed this thread with her.


She used to be close friends with an ex cc, X. They were in the dancing society at school. X has always been vicious in meeting well off men after failing a couple of relationships. because in a city like Hong Kong, it's hard to find happiness, or lets say enjoy happiness and love without money, to watch movies, dine out, buy gifts etc. almost 2 years ago she decided that why not cast a net among the new SOs - new to HK and what a load of paycheck by local standard. X eventually got jilted by almost 5 guys before returning to the very first guy, Y, whom she pigeon-holed. She believed that he was desperate enough to take her as he wanted a girlfriend to settle down. Alongside, X slept with Y's friend, the very guy she wanted to have as her boyfriend, but needless to say he didn't want to comply. Taking whatever that comes, X, soon moved into Y's and got showered with gifts every now and then. She had never had such a generous guy showering her with gifts all the time, all her vacations included. At one point, X even requested Y to put her under his travel companion name, despite the fact that she could id travel as a cc. My friend's sister thought it was ludicrous! They soon moved far away to a house closer to work and he bought a car, X had never been happier because how many people get to live in a house in HK? X didn't really have many close friends, considering the fact that she enjoys flaunting about Y's wealth or perhaps it's a normal among hkg girlfriends. X clinged onto the chances of meeting more pilots because she wanted to be in a new and better social circle. Last year, she resigned from cx and decided she could launch her career somewhere else but it did not transpire. So she proposed to Y into opening a cafe of her own on an outlying islands by Lantau. She could not do so on her own. My friend's sisters and mutual friends did not apprehend why would Y bestow all his money on her venture, which is very likely to fail. The sister is no longer close to X because X has distant herself from her old friends. She met Y a couple of times but above all, more worried and uncomfortable about the relationship. One of the many.


But just picture this in a city like Hong Kong - it makes my stomach sick how this place has evolved and how the people have transposed. It's pure sadness how interaction between people and relationships are more superficial than anything else (4 years after i'd left and returned to hkg from UNSW). Nothing against hkg and I like it as my family is here, but I am not sure for years ahead or to have my children brought up here, I am bewildered.

[Pucka]

Pontius..good post and reflects what many bona fide pax experience frequently. I believe that CX has lost many of their original long term accounts due to poor client management performance and the hubris that IS CX. In a previous post, the omnipresent CXExorcist, whilst appreciating his non pilot management peers as the doyens of continued Airline success, appears to forget that its the passenger and his/her experience that dictates repeat custom. Out of HKG, Oz and UK, I hear time and time again that the CX experience was poor.. from check in, the non assistance to single mothers and their kids, poor cabin service and the terrible EY food, ( we are told to watch the potential of DVT but we get fed a diet of rubbish)....and yes, all those obsequious PA's to boot. Even the cleanliness of the cabin is in doubt, with 777 carpets showing multiple stains, particularly in EY..and who in management chose such high vis material?..a pilot manager, embedded in the higher audits of decision making would make a lot of sense...one appointed on merit.
So, maybe the muppets at Skytrax could conduct another survey; one that shows the airline receiving the most passenger defections from CX?? At a guess, I think that may just be BA!
...and CXEx..never forget that it was a couple of pilot 'managers" that conceived and built the airline you work for..and indeed, similar models did precisely the same and one wonders if we would have been in a better and healthier position if this had remained the same? Then, they were leaders in the real sense. Mostly male pilots who we would happily go over the top for as opposed to the gutless self improvers we see now, where the word leadership has little or no meaning. Pilot managers should always have been appointed on merit, NOT as a result of personal gain or ego. In BA, these guys are generally head hunted from within and whilst its still not perfect in their crib, morale amongst crews..flight deck crews, is more than a tadge better than CX and KA.

[wongsuzie]

'New and better social circle'

X slept with y who slept with z.

Sori couldn't read after that..

[Shutterbug]

I don't know why the original thread starter put a line of 5 years to his argument. I think the service has been on a downward trend for the last 10+ years, and I don't see the trend reversing. I see it getting a lot, lot worse. I've flown KE and TG and OZ recently, and they all put CX cabin product to shame. The KE 380 EY cabin is like Premium CX product. CX are quite simply losing the war. The TG crew were phenomenal. In fact... these were probably the same gals that CX would have been hiring 10 years ago, but apparently CX does most of its hiring from Tin Shui Wai these days.

I recall flying CX in the late 90s and the service was incomparable. In fact, I remember writing on a feedback card once something to the effect of, with EY service like this, who needs a business class. The service was topnotch. It was my first time flying with Cathay and I had flown with KE, OZ, JL before and lots of European and American carriers, and no one could touch them. KE service back then was more rigid and the KE CA's spoke near zero English and were about as friendly as dead fish. JL left me indifferent... I think the Japanese rate JL so high simply because the crew speak Japanese and bow a lot. CX back then were the perfect mix. A range of crew from all over Asia, all smiles, all working hard, got drink refills without ordering, used my name (in EY), simply put, perfect pax experience. Then top it all off with a Kaitak night landing. Memorable flights every time.

It's hardly the same airline today.

Broadly speaking... I see a wide range of reasons, but it all traces back to one route cause: management. Example... everyone who's been with CX over a decade remembers when Cathay were actively recruiting crew from over 14 countries. I remember a crew composition list once and quite nearly every country had anywhere from 6-8% representation of crew back in the 90s, Hong Kong had a few more percent, but not by much. At some point CX stopped actively recruiting foreign CA's with the exception of bare minimum number of CA's from a few key countries for their language requirements; Korea, Japan, and most recently India again. But nowhere near in numbers they used to. The point is not to go off on another rant bashing Hongkie girls. The point is, for a lot of girls from other countries the perception of a CX job as being a big prestigious thing was a lot more relevant, and so they treat the job as such. You move from Sri Lanka, or Manilla, Mumbai, or Taegu, or Bangkok, or Taipei, to Hong Kong to take a job... that's a big thing. For some of them in terms of salaries too. They had a better perception of the job, and treated it accordingly.

It's relatively easy for any Hongkie to land a job as a CX CA, so they approach the job with the same mentality. Easy come, easy go. But what was more disturbing was getting a look behind the training process of CX's CA lately. I think the CX cabin crew training strikes out on every conceivable front. Start with your trainers. In any organization, who are your trainers? And how are they rewarded? I had always thought being a trainer was a recognition of excellence and accumulated experience. CX cabin crew trainers are actually punished for opting to be trainers. They actually lose money for choosing to go to training school, and their chance of being promoted is actually harmed because their CPP scores nosedive. Thank you management. The trainers can actually invest zero time imprinting anything of value on the new crew. The training schedule doesn't allow it. The training schedule is a variety of modules that basically focus on teaching the new crew how to shovel food the CX way. And you're surprised that's what's showing up in the cabin? Look at this way... the crew themselves are treated like meals that need to be shoveled out as fast as possible. How are they not supposed to think of the job that way? Here's a real laugher.... a lot of the training has been slapped onto disks and the trainees are supposed to "home school" themselves. Have a good laugh every time I hear about CX's "excellent training program" for CA's. FAIL.

In a nutshell... the CA job was a quasi prestigious job for a lot of young girls from all over Asia that was much sought after in the 80s and 90s. The crew hotels were topnotch, the training pre-internet age was actually face-to-face with an emphasis on service excellence, and their salaries stretched a lot further. Fast forward 10-some years.... all of Asia has become more prosperous, the CA job has lost a bit of its luster, the Hong Kong dollar has lost half of its purchasing power, in outport you've moved from 5-star hotels to airport motels and seen days cut off of every outport stay, you're teaching yourself at home from a CD-Rom. And you're saying you think service has gone downhill? ROFL.

CX has gone from a small airline that offered a high end product to being a shuttle bus for mainlanders with more money than they know what to do with. BUT... record profits. Just not for the crew who have invested 10+ years of their lives in the company, have seen near zero increase in their wages over the same period, have seen their purchasing power cut in half while prices in the city for everything from a bowl of rice to flats have nearly doubled. Management don't see CA's as a value-adding asset except for the billboards that tout "the face of CX." In reality, management consider crew as a financial liability and treat them accordingly. You get what you pay for.

[californication]

X slept with Y and Z slept with X. Sounds like a Californication-syle orgy to me...anyway...who gives a sh#t.

Upshot - Cathay has stopped hiring funky, good-looking Asians from Pakistan to Japan and has recently hired nothing but Hong Kong Chinese birds. The based girls are different of course, but there isn't many of them.

Result - Average looks, well-above-average "attitude" (bad that is) and well-below-average, Hong-Kong-style, two-star restaurant customer service. It's not more complicated than that.

Solution - Actively hire attractive, young ASIANS from all over ASIA and teach them how to serve the customer properly. Cull low performers immediately. Cull those with bad attitudes ruthlessly. Oh, and pay them more than pawpers.

[Soul planet]

Californication, seems like you know nothing about the industry. Haha continue to be a joke here then.

Shutterbug, I agree fully. KE and JL economy class were awesome! Genuine people providing excellent service. Never found in hkg.

[californication]

Soul Planet - You are Off the Planet....WTF?

[wongsuzie]

Stop moaning, the reality -what ever the quality of service ppl still fly CX.

300 pax, 2 complain so what,next!

And yup the attitude is: you're welcome to try those a fore mentioned rivals.
In fact please give them go. Really an amazing experience.

[Soul planet]

General trend and direction and overall quality of service, all items are unfortunately going downhill with time no matter what you say, 2 complains, 3 complains each flight. You can have zero complain and pax can still hate the deteriorating service. Just like you don't like to shop at Park'n'Shop, you don't necessary need to complain, you just know, and start shopping at Wellcome.

[White None]

Shopping...? That's where the Missus goes before she cooks me n t'lads Tea right?

Anyone else bored with this?

[etopsmonkey]

Thank you Shutterbug, you summed it up concisely and perfectly. You are dead on about the trainers. Choosing to be a trainer is actually choosing a dead end on the career path. The training department is seen as an cost item. I don't know if the HKCAD will allow it ... if allow, maybe in the future CX will outsource the cabin service altogether.

5 years ago, I took CX for the first time and was quite impressed by its cabin service. Comparing today to 5 years ago, I can see a marked difference (in a negative way). Maybe if I had the chance to take CX in the 80s/90s, I would have been abhorred by the service 5 years ago.

Point is that service levels are going down - fast, while others in the region are rapidly rising. Sooner or later, the customers will vote with the wallets. If I know there is a very little chance of getting business class with CX, I will spend a little extra and use my ID90 travel on a competitor, on the same route.

[Pucka]

Shutterbug..very accurate view of the present..and lets face it, it pervades and infuses throughout the whole of CX's system. A recent flight in EY from SYD and it was a reality check in being treated like a total pleb. I was even told that ..I had enough wines in their opinion..after 4 measly glasses and an EY meal that quite frankly contained all the ingredients of a heart attack. attention to any detail..even the fact that two of the ey crew had no idea if there was a power point at my seat position or whether there was a power socket converter avail. I was offered one from duty free for 35USD then post flight, told there was intact 2 available!!!...all of this delivered with a sultry repose and an attitude that quite frankly, embarrassed. To receive this sort of service in a legacy hotel or restaurant, would result in major criticism...sadly, CX appear to have ligatured Skytrax, so any recrimination will at the most, be 'soft'.

[Threethirty]

I flew to Rio recently on BA. The whole experience was of the highest order. I boarded the aircraft, said I was CX staff and asked if there was any chance of an upgrade, within 5 minutes the CSD had gone to the cockpit asked the Captain and returned to give me the good news. I sat in Club World the entire way. Would this happen on CX for us let alone other airline staff, like hell it would!
On the same flight an elderly gentleman with diabetes had been sick over himself during the night so the cabin crew, cleaned him up made sure he was ok then placed him in J class! Meanwhile I was only offered economy food for brekky but the girl couldn't have been more apologetic, in the end I had to remind her that I had been upgraded!
This was all from a so called 4 star airline.

[12wheeler]

Soul Planet pretty much just joined PPRune to post on this thread, ..... and Flyer Jazz disappeared as soon as Soul Planet took over....

Flyer Jazz's location: Soul Plane.....

Sorry, just thinking out loud...:}

[crwkunt roll]

You can't expect the girls to excel in the service dept these days as they're similarly treated like **** by every sort of scumbag that somehow can afford to fly CX.

[Hellenic aviator]

[QUOTE] I flew to Rio recently on BA. The whole experience was of the highest order. I boarded the aircraft, said I was CX staff and asked if there was any chance of an upgrade, within 5 minutes the CSD had gone to the cockpit asked the Captain and returned to give me the good news. I sat in Club World the entire way. Would this happen on CX for us let alone other airline staff, like hell it would! QUOTE]

I beg to differ. During my brief, I tell the ISM (infront of the cabin crew) to upgrade any staff to J class pending seat availability. I haven't had any repercussions - after all, I apparently am "ultimately responsible" for everything....but I'm digressing from the point of the topic.

Getting back, wongsuzie sums it up:

[QUOTE] Stop moaning, the reality -what ever the quality of service ppl still fly CX.

300 pax, 2 complain so what,next!

And yup the attitude is: you're welcome to try those a fore mentioned rivals.
In fact please give them go. Really an amazing experience. QUOTE]

[wongsuzie]

''treated like **** by every sort of scumbag that somehow can afford to fly CX''

You don't mean the guys from the ''new and better social circle?''

[Hellenic aviator]

I find the biggest pain in the :mad: are normally those that have been upgraded from Y to J class. The stories I hear from our cabin crew are....:eek:

I'm in total agreement with wongsuzie [Quote]you're welcome to try those a fore mentioned rivals.
In fact please give them go. Really an amazing experience [Quote]

[Flyer jazz]

Laughing out loud, I know I have been missed, sitting back with my popcorn and watching this boring thread continue. Any newbies here are equally as guilty of impostering me, watch out people do not even join HaHa!

With or without scumbag benders, the service is not going to improve. Forgot Potinus' post? His wife is the least demanding person and got tutted at when asked for water. Good luck bawdys! :ok:

[SMOC]

Declining standards.

CX had a policy to change uniforms every 5 years, when was the last change? Over 10 years ago (a revamp which was barely noticeable doesn't count).

Have the cockpit uniforms ever changed?

CX is morphing into a LCC right before our eyes.

[wongsuzie]

More banality.. Let her try our rival dwn south.
The Kebaya girls treat all females as invisible!

[SMOC]

I can fly - but bring your own mop: Cathay vs British Airways | South China Morning Post (http://www.scmp.com/comment/blogs/article/1212832/i-can-fly-bring-your-own-mop-cathay-vs-british-airways)



It's not often you get the chance to compare Cathay Pacific and British Airways head to head, as it were. I have to admit that after years of being bossed about on planes by matronly BA air hostesses I have always preferred Cathay's gentler approach. Leg one - Hong Kong to London in business class went well. Late night flight, old coffin style business class seats, but at 1am who cares about food or movies. It's lights out, crash out, wake up in London. Pleasantly uneventful. Next leg of the much-anticipated round the world trip was London Heathrow to New York JFK on BA.

The flight itself was excellent. The BA business class seat super comfortable, the lights easy to direct and aircrew who could not do enough. The food was good with lots of choices. I had a When Harry Met Sally-type passenger next door, a picky vegetarian who had forgotten to notify in advance. They scoured every cabin to find meat free food for her and even then, she wanted it changed. They did it. They knew all about JFK immigration and dished out the right forms and advice. The plane was clean, the magazine rack stuffed with good reads, they offered water frequently. Could not fault them.

Last leg was Cathay Pacific from JFK back home to Hong Kong. Even though it was 16 hours, I was quite excited because it was the new business class seats, so a wonderful experience was anticipated. But oh dear, disappointment. As I boarded no one showed me to my seat, no one offered to take my coat, no one produced pre-flight drinks. Sure, it's not written in stone, but BA did all that. They even gave drinks to their ground staff.

A pre-take off trip to the business class loo came as a bit of a shock - it had not been cleaned. Paper towels spilled from the rubbish bin, the basin was wet, soap dispenser almost empty, and no hand or face cream supplied. The floor was wet and the loo not covered in the customary sheath of tissue paper. It was unexpected and frankly, took the shine off my enjoyment. It did not inspire confidence either.

CX831 from JFK to Hong Kong was not packed, but staff were obviously too busy to check little things like toilets. There was no customary visit from the in-flight services manager, though the captain did tell us she was lovely, which always sounds a bit patronising.

Along came lunch. Nothing spectacular - cod, chicken or beef, plus a vegetarian dish. The beef came with rosemary gravy and polenta. All perfectly fine. Afterwards I looked for a magazine but the rack was bare. No one toured with water. After a good sleep in those wonderful bed seats came dinner. Choices were chicken, beef or porcini lasagnas. The beef resembled the beef from lunch so I chose lasagna. Mistake. It was a stodgy lukewarm brick and the mushrooms gritty. I asked for something else. "You don't like it? Or is it totally inedible?" asked the steward sympathetically. I replied the latter and he came back with chicken. Two bites later deja vu kicked in - surely this is what I had eaten for lunch? Not exactly, but close. This was chicken and lunch had been beef, but the menu revealed both came with rosemary gravy and polenta and after a blast in the CX ovens, tasted remarkably similar.

Unimpressed, I asked the name of she who runs the show, the cabin services manager, fully expecting this would bring her scampering down the aisle. Not so. The steward returned bearing the name of the cabin services boss for the whole of Cathay. I repeated that I wanted to know who was in charge on this flight. After some time, the lady herself appeared card in hand: Ms Mellette De La Riva. Did I have a problem? Well yes, I replied, I felt disappointed, and listed the grubby toilet, lack of pre-takeoff drinks and magazines and dodgy meals, though I said I knew the actual food was not down to her. She looked mildly concerned, apologised and said she would "remind" the crew to check in future. She did not seem to consider that the buck stopped with her.

So, sorry Cathay, but BA wins this time. I had been looking forward to that flight.




I doubt this made it to Cathay city's "the street" notice boards!

[Threethirty]

This is one flight so it may not be representative, but if this is indicative it's a shame that TPTB won't do anything about it until bums on seats turn into bums on BA A380's.

[Kasompe]

That is probably because TPTB excel in being reactive as opposed to proactive. Imagination and innovation are both largely absent here.:(

[broadband circuit]

I doubt this made to Cathay city's "the street" notice boards!

Indeed! Me too!

[geh065]

Have the cockpit uniforms ever changed?

They have changed...about 10-11 years ago they changed to the current uniform.

[broadband circuit]

The problems in that article are typical of the problems passengers face.

Although some of those noted were within the control of the ISM, usually they're not. When passengers start threatening that they'll write to the company, the smart girls say "go ahead, please do, they might listen to you, but they won't listen to us".

I've been approached in the galley by passengers before with gripes, and if it's something outside the control of the crew, then my response is the same. I love the shocked look on their face - they find it absolutely unbelievable that passenger feedback of deficiencies given through the crew will be totally ignored.

[wongsuzie]

Once again please go try our esteemed rivals.

Oh yeah, one last thing safety should be a box ticked when selecting which hull to put yourself and family in.

Re:AirAccidents.com league table.

[Flyer jazz]

Sorta despise it when people say its just ONE flight or just THAT flight... one flight here, one flight there.. can't they notice its a ubiquitous cx trend here? Toodle-oo!

[wongsuzie]

Here try this lot, great cabin svc, fawning CA,100% smiles,good food,etc


Lionar B738 at Denpasar on Apr 13th 2013, overran runway and came to stop in sea
Lionair B734 at Pontianak on Dec 30th 2012, runway excursion on landing
Lion B734 at Pontianak on Nov 1st 2012, overran runway on landing
Lionair MD90 at Jakarta on Mar 9th 2009, departed runway on landing
Lionair B739 at Pekanbaru on Feb 14th 2011, runway excursion on landing
Lionair B739 at Pekanbaru on Feb 15th 2011, overran runway on landing
Lionair B734 at Pontianak on Nov 2nd 2010, overran runway on landing
Lionair B734 at Pontianak on Nov 2nd 2010, overran runway on landing

[Soul planet]

I don't think comparing with a LCC is fair. The airlines in the scope of which cx is in are very safe, in this decade. QF, SQ, JAL, OZ, TG...etc. Don't compare an Audi Le Mans Concept with an AMC Pacer. :=

[Juliette Alpha]

With a 5/10 average review on Skytrax I wouldn't say Lion Air has great cabin service... It's not quite apples and apples with an LCC just like Soul Planet says.

[broadband circuit]

I don't think comparing with a LCC is fair.

Why not? That's pretty much what CX has become.

[twotigers]

I didn't realize that cabin crew contributed to runway overruns.
Just cause we have safer than average cockpit crew doesn't mean the hostesses are any good. Alternatively, lovely smiling caring Indo cabin crew can't help the idiot P2F crew from killing everyone aboard.

[raven11]

Whether it's on this thread or the Cadetship Good News thread also on this forum....the canaries are chirping in the coal mine. Is anyone in a position to do something listening?

[Arfur Dent]

Cathay is approaching the 'rock bottom' they've been aiming at for years. Right across the board until you get to so-called Senior Management. We now have cheap pilots, cheap cabin crew, cheap seat-styles (except for F) and cheap service. As aircrew, take a wander around the cabin mid a ULH flight and you'll be very fortunate to actually find a Flight Attendant, let alone one who will tidy a bathroom or actually 'serve' a passenger. We are a high cost LCC. Well done to the 9th Floor. I sincerely hope when BA turn up with their 380's, customers will vote with their feet. It's long overdue

[quadspeed]

You've got to give them credit. Apart from the odd disgruntled employe here and there, never have I witnessed a company so detested by it's own staff. The level of schadenfreude among frontline staff whenever CX takes a beating is astonishing at best, and points to a much deeper problem within the company. There's the odd loyalist among us for sure, but they've either got their own skeletons in the closet or their silver coins cashed.

Take a great brand with a solid reputation and proud employees and then, in the quest for short term profit and individual bonuses, turn your entire front line staff against you. I can only imagine what a truly great airline this could have become if it's own staff didn't detest it so passionately.

It takes a lifetime to build. And a moment to destroy. What a fu$#ing tragedy psycopathic bricklayers have caused.

[Kasompe]

Quadspeed,

Nail. On. The. Head.

And we all know the powers that be read this, so we all know that they know. Therefore, the fact that they don't reverse this trend, this tragic decline of a once GREAT airline, surely means they are complicit and don't care?

IMHO of course.:{

[TeaTowel]

Why not just stack the passengers on pallets?

And sedate them till the flight is over?

:}

[Pucka]

No doubt Michael O Ryan has thought that one over, including passing the cost of the sedation onto the passenger.....

[landrecovery]

You boys have never talked to Qantas staff obviously :ugh:

If management did they would realize how low they could go:E

[SMOC]

QF just announced new uniforms.

Cookies must be enabled. | The Australian (http://www.theaustralian.com.au/business/aviation/qantas-logo-inspires-new-martin-grant-designed-uniform/story-e6frg95x-1226621574263)

Appear to be sticking to the average 5yr change.

Doesn't hurt having "a fashion parade featuring supermodel Miranda Kerr in Sydney today".

[Msunduzi]

I can understand the comment about the seats.
In 2008 we flew to Cebu via Hong Kong, and the seats seem to have a metal tube right at the base of your spine. Never considered them again.
Must admit though, had no complaints about service.

[jetjockey696]

Qantas is going with Christian Louboutin shoes... classic...


Our new look - YouTube

[Shutterbug]

@TeaTowel

"Why not just stack the passengers on pallets? And sedate them till the flight is over?"



Ah, so you've seen the new service plan then? You are aware sharing confidential information on a public site is a cause for termination?

:ok:

[TeaTowel]

Heres a concept not far off:
http://images.theage.com.au/2009/11/06/841895/BusinessFLEX2-600x400.jpg

The future of airline seating | Aircraft seating and interiors (http://www.theage.com.au/travel/the-future-of-airline-seating-watch-this-space-20091104-hxre.html)

[cxorcist]

That looks brilliant to me. Why didn't I think of it? Cabin temp control might be tough though. Perhaps it will be difficult for the floor seats to be warm enough without the upper bunks being too warm. Also, is there significant liability with pax and cabin crew on those stairs in flight?

[Adam Nams]

It reminds me of ...

http://www.eyewitnesstohistory.com/images/slaveship2.jpg

[jetjockey696]

Future airline seating....all it needs is a metal fencing for security...

http://www.beijingshots.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/02/Hong-Kong-Cage-Homes.jpg

this is the future of business class seating.... :ok:

[courseitsfixed]

Mmmm looks like Tung Chung or is it DB.......:rolleyes:

[DropKnee]

Don't think for a second that they would stack you like slaves if they could. Pesky people and their ability to revolt. Let make a law:-)

[jetjockey696]

DAN BUSTER.... possibly sharing with a senior SO.. (bottom right) he has a wardrobe.. :ok: and the look of .. what the hell I been doing for the last 5 yrs, I am still here in a bunk..at home and at work.... :ugh:

the guy on the top bunk reading his contract... saying NOOOOO..this cant be. where is my fancy house and car.. :{ i was told i was important...CX told me that "Cathay Pacific Second Officers are integral members of our flight deck crew. You’ll fly as a cruise co-pilot and monitor the activities of our operating crew – a pivotal role in the efficient operation of our airline. You will also be exposed to our standard operating procedures, and encouraged to learn, grow and develop".

Senior SO replies.." dont worry son..everyone lies... but maybe this time next year, we'll be millionaires!":ok:

[nitpicker330]

I don't find that funny, those poor bastards have to live in that hole and you poke fun at their circumstances..........:=

Crass, really crass. :mad: