CitiExpress Cuts

[Clipper 103]

Bloomberg says that CitiExpress is dropping 12 routes and cutting over 500 jobs to save costs.

[snooky]

See here (http://www.britishairways.com/press/)

[Sledge]

From the Ba press office :


- Withdraw 12 loss making routes
- Launch two new routes and increase frequency on nine key business routes
- Overall regional capacity reduction of eight per cent
- Reduced future staffing requirement equivalent to 500 full time positions
- £20 million cost savings each year by 2004

London, Wednesday April 24, 2002: British Airways CitiExpress, a wholly owned subsidiary of British Airways, today unveiled the outcome of a Future Size and Shape review to ensure the profitability of its services at airports throughout the UK.

The strategy is designed to strengthen the airline’s position in the domestic and European short-haul market by developing an improved flying programme, and delivering a better service and more flights for air travellers across the network.

This will be achieved by:-
- Increasing capacity and services on key business routes
- Simplifying the fleet and reducing the number of different aircraft types based at regional airports
- More efficient use of assets - better matching aircraft size to local markets
- The withdrawal of loss making services

The regional changes are in line with British Airways’ overall Future Size and Shape project announced in February 2002. Since then the airline has launched a range of new lower fares on UK domestic to London flights giving air travellers more choice and greater flexibility.

The measures announced today build on the integration process which resulted in the creation of BA CitiExpress on March 31st 2002. They are designed to reduce further the cost base of the regional operation and deliver annual savings of £20 million by 2004.

The net result of simplifying the business and removing complexity from the operation will mean employing the equivalent of 500 fewer people during the next
two years.

The changes to employee numbers in BA CitiExpress as a result of Future Size and Shape will be the subject of consultation with the company’s trade unions and representatives.

David Evans, British Airways General Manager UK Business said: “We now have the framework to develop our business and deliver the required cost savings. We are laying the platform for growth by getting our business in shape.

“This will provide us with a clear business direction for our staff and our customers. We will have the right aircraft at the right time on the right routes, and, where the business demands, we will have new services and extra frequency.”

As a result of some aircraft types being consolidated at specific regional airports, the number of crew reporting bases (where cabin and flight crew originate for flights) will reduce to 12 from15.

This will affect Aberdeen, Belfast and Jersey crew reporting bases.

The manpower equivalent savings will be achieved by 2004 in Flight Operations (48), Cabin Services (233), Engineering (52), Ground Services (8) and other head office and support staff (170).

This represents a 20 per cent reduction in manpower since the start of the integration process which began in 2001.

The fleet and network changes will result in an overall capacity reduction, measured in ASKs (Available Seat Kilometres), of eight per cent.

[Dutchie]

BA CitiExpress axes 12 routes, will cut 500 staff
David Kaminski-Morrow, London (24Apr02, 11:28 GMT, 357 words)


British Airways’ (BA) regional CitiExpress division is to cut 12 loss-making routes and the equivalent of more than 500 jobs over the next two years as part of the flag-carrier’s continuing Future Size and Shape review.

BA CitiExpress says the move will save £20 million ($29 million) by 2004 and adds that the route changes, combined with a planned reduction of its regional fleet to 82 aircraft from the present 92, will amount to an 8% capacity cut.

Four routes from Cardiff International Airport – to Dublin, Edinburgh, Glasgow and Newcastle – will be dropped. Two routes will go at both Bristol (Brussels and Cork) and Plymouth (Dublin and Cork) while four other services will be axed at other UK regional airports: Southampton-Frankfurt, Jersey-Paris, Newcastle-Cork and Belfast-Sheffield.

But CitiExpress is also to launch two new routes – Manchester-Venice and Bristol-Leeds Bradford – and will increase frequencies on key business routes out of Manchester, Newcastle, Bristol and Southampton.

It says that the fleet and route amendments will mean cutting three of its 15 crew reporting bases, at Aberdeen, Belfast and Jersey. CitiExpress says that a total of more than 500 positions will be affected: over 230 in cabin services, some 50 in each of flight operations and engineering, plus 170 support staff and a handful of ground services personnel.

“We now have the framework to develop our business and deliver the required cost savings,” says BA UK business general manager David Evans. “We are laying the platform for growth by getting our business in shape.

“We will have the right aircraft at the right time on the right routes and, where the business demands, we will have new services and extra frequencies.”

BA CitiExpress, formally launched at the end of March, was created last year from the integration of British Regional Airlines and Brymon Airways, and will this year see BA Regional and Manx Airlines brought under the same brand. The carrier says that the cuts announced today will bring the total reduction of staff since the beginning of integration to 20%.

By March 2004, the carrier adds, it will operate six aircraft types on 113 routes from 28 UK regional airports.


Source: Air Transport Intelligence news
:(

[MarkD]

when is this effective from?

[FlyboyUK]

Some of it will take affect from the end of May.

First J41 leaves Cardiff at end of May and other two in August. All destined for Newcastle where there will eventually be 6 J41's.

Apparently all the dash 8's are going back asap and the J41's will cover some of the old Dash routes.

I just feel sorry for everyone (including myself) that is about to have their lives turned upside down again.

A sad day for all concerned

:( :(

[pilgrims]

FlyboyUK,
All the DASH's go back. What about the PLYMOUTH
dash 8.s.

[JCB 1]

Why opt for the J41 over the larger, and certainly more passenger-friendly DHC8???

[marlowe]

only 5 dhc 8s to be returned ten will stay if you can believe David Evans presentation that is!!!!

[FlyboyUK]

Sorry I was given duff info, but certainly most of the Dash's are going back before the leases have to be renewed. They are stuck with the J41 leases for some years to come.

[Gladfa]

four other services will be axed at other UK regional airports: Southampton-Frankfurt, Jersey-Paris, Newcastle-Cork and Belfast-Sheffield

And so ends the final regular commercial service out of Sheffield.

Sheffield used to be the largest city without an airport; it's now a city with an expensive car test track :(

[marlowe]

the j41 leases run for another seven years so no chance of getting rid of the jetscreams in near future

[avt100]

British Airways is to axe another 500 jobs and withdraw 12 loss-making routes from its regional business.

It said the move aimed to make annual savings of £20m by 2004.

The job losses will be made over the next two years.

Source Airline News (http://luchtvaart.pagina.nl)

[redfield]

Six J41's at Newcastle? Where are they going to park them all?:D

[faq]

On top of each other?

[dbromle]

Bristol-Leeds. Give it 4 months?
If you are stuck with some surplus turboprops why not try a few routes into London City? Such as from Newcastle, Manchester. High yield business market?

[GrahamK]

Hmmmm.....Newcastle, High yield market! :D :D :confused:

[MarkD]

Are there *any* of the old Brymon routes left? ORK now only has GLA left [I think] of the BA routes when at one point pre 9/11 there were four routes [GLA, LGW, NCL, BRS/PLY]. Really hope GLA stays, better than routing through DUB any day.

[brain fade]

Mark D
GLA-ORK has been given to Loganair:)

[Tom the Tenor]

This is such terribly bad news for Cork. Cork will reel from this for a long time to come even if Aer Arann Express takes up some of the soon the be vacated routes and all of this on top of the Gatwick loss last year! What kind of return do these manager wan@ers at BA want from a route? It is not as if any of these services to Cork were in the cheap fare category. I just can't believe the way Cork is being shafted like this.:confused:

[Wycombe]

Arann Express are starting ORK-SOU services in June (once daily 6 days a week I believe, with ATR)

Guess they are hoping to capture some of the ex-LGW-ORK market.

[Avalon]

:( Last airline to leave Cardiff - please switch off the lights........??

[Blue Bay]

Very sad for all involved. I can not believe there is not a future for BA at the Welsh capitol. A new strategy to stimulate customers is all it takes. People will still pay to fly from their local airport......I think we may see Ezy etc..showing BA how it should be done once again.

[Young Paul]

Capital, surely?:confused:

[Thoroughly Nice Bloke...]

The likes of Brymon etc have only managed to operate because of little or no competition.

I live 45 minutes from Plymouth and just over an hour from Bristol, last week I had to go to Edinburgh and these were the two options:

Brymon £650.00 from Plymouth to EDI calling at Bristol on the way up and Luton on the way back.

GO £150.00 from Bristol to EDI in less than an hour.

Enough said…! :o

[rhythm method]

Nobody seems to be mentioning the staff at Aberdeen, Belfast and Jersey who will no longer have jobs to go to.

I'd be very keen to hear the logic from our supposedly infallible bean counters who have come up with this supposed means of saving money and maximising profits.

Belfast to close... WHY? Withdrawing the ATP from BHD which operates the MAN service only to replace it with the RJ100 next year. Initially we're told that an Emb145 will nightstop!!! So now there will be 4 crew nightstopping in a local hotel, engineering spares will be needed at the base for an aircraft that hasn't been based there before. How is that saving money? What happens if a crewmember goes sick overnight? No standby cover.. no service! Then there's the SZD service on the J41. A service which was virtually always operating close to full capacity? LOGIC!!? Move the aircraft to Newcastle and increase the number of flights operated on their existing routes.

Then the next logical question is why was virtually nothing changed at GLA and EDI? In fact engineering jobs have been created at both these bases. GLA to BHD and EDI to BHD seem to regularly operate with passenger loads in single figures! Now I am not advocating that jobs should have gone at these bases, however I would like to know how these @ssholes who conducted the review can justify the three base closures announced.

Hopefully, someone from Aberdeen can back up my point by highlighting that their services were not as bad as is being implied.

A very bad decision which affects peoples LIVES!

[skylord757]

Not suprised by all the J41's being pulled from Cardiff with the high prices they charge, I think it will be only a matter of time before the Embraer is pulled as well. Hear EasyJet might be coming to Cardiff It is also a good opportunity for Air Wales to expand and take over the routes as they are getting bigger aircraft.

How many aircraft are left at Bristol?

[Itlbefine]

rhythm method

"Now I am not advocating that jobs should have gone at these bases".

Well what are you "advocating".
The jobs created at Gla have no bearing on the route structure at GLA, EDI or BHD as they are not Line jobs!

It's easy to be critical a lot harder to be constructive.

:p

[Tinytim]

Rhythm Method why look for logic?

Out of two profitable airlines the self same (things you sit on) have created one loss maker by parachuting in the dead weight of BAR with all its gross inefficiencies and fat for the platinum boys and girls.

FSand S (F$ck it up, Screw us and Screw again) is a face saving exercise by inadequate managers who are fighting to save their careers.

Brief to faceless bean counters is "For Ch$st sake get us out of this mess of our own creation by doing something.....Doesn't matter what it is as long as it appears to be a good shake up."

That my friend is the simple truth.

FSand S is a monumental gamble by men with no conscience in which we are the pawns.

[Captain Correlli]

One can almost have sympathy with the viewpoint of some like Hand Solo in a different thread about our new RJ fleet. I suppose it is inevitable that our new management will, in a few years time, be buying Emerald Airways, Air Kilroe and Aer Arann, and we, in turn, will be squealing about our jobs and our airplanes going to a yet cheaper, lower cost base still operation. Of course, it won't be the end, because by then, current mainline recruiting will have been frozen for a while, and we will find ourselves subsumed onto 737s and Airbi, whilst their present incumbents staff the shrinking long haul division.

At the same time, Waterside will have expanded to capacity, and a new, purpose built tower next to Canary Wharf as the RJ fleet takes over LCY.

At about this time, someone else will come up the idea of a small regional carrier serving niche routes with a quality service, and the new BRAL will appear.

Tous ca change, toutes le meme chose !

[#1AHRS]

All the best to my Ex-Colleagues in NCL and I hope it all works out for you..
Keep those shoes polished..B

[TwinAisle]

Heard this news from the crew on last night's CDG-CWL. What sort of numpties are running CitiExpress, pray tell?

BA in South Wales never advertise (a mate is a member of the Assembly who was blissfully unaware of the CWL-EDI, and has been driving to BHX), don't have promotions (unlike Air Wales), and then look askance when they get empty aircraft. Their load last night on CDG inbound was the typical 50%.

There are only a few options for BA's behaviour at Cardiff:

1. They don't want to fly there anyway and are looking to get rid of the traffic to get an excuse;
2. They couldn't possibly stand up to a behemoth such as Air Wales, and are throwing in the towel now;
3. They are being run by the most unimaginative, uncreative and stupid management team that ever drew breath.

I know where my money is. Lions lead by donkeys, as someone once said.

They ought to look at BA in the Highlands and Islands - apparently that couldn't be made to pay either, except new management proved it could....

:mad:

Next step is renaming BA "EA" - since they seem not to want to play in Wales, Scotland or N Ireland, their claim to be anymore than English Airlines is looking pretty shabby.

Yrs not looking forward to the hike to BHX.....

TA

[Bigpants]

If nothing else this does give you some explanation of why so many of the flightcrew in BAR are hacked off with BA Management. We are not all seniority obsessed dipsticks and like you chaps we have been led up the garden path on numerous occaisions by D Evans etc
BAR has been dragged down not by pilot costs but the weight of waterworld and the thousands of hangers on that BA employ. This is of course in contrast to the lean and efficient little outfits you all worked for before coming under the BA umbrella.
Sadly some of the decisions your new Lords and Masters make lack common sense and will be probably be quietly revesed in some manner in a couple of years time. There is of course no accountability within management at BA so you might as well get used to it!
Regards BP

[FlyboyUK]

Twin Ailse you are dead right........even when we were BRAL, there was still virtually no advertising around Cardiff and south Wales. All you see at the moment are posters for Go out of Bristol stuck all over the city. I personally find it very frustrating as one of the Pilots that is going to be displaced by all this.

[Must Dash]

Capt. Corelli you are so right I'm surprised your not still an FO you're showing far too much initative and forward thinking it's dangerous!

[Stall Inducer]

BA managing their own decline - a year ago or so these Citiexpress airlines were PAYING BA to operate on their behalf and making a profit. Why buy them in the first place to bring them in under full BA costs. Cityflyer was transformed from a 6 +million a year profit making regional to a loss making wholly owned and managed subsidary in 6 months. -Wheres the sense?

[Amazon man]

BA is basically bleeding money and cash is king, a company that is in debt to the tune of seventeen times its worth has big problems and BA has a long way to go yet before it has turned the corner any route not making a profit of 10% goes.

Explain to me the thinking behind reducing the number of jets in Southampton by two replacing them with four Dash 8's and increasing the number of EMB 145 in Bristol to five. People having got used to jets will not pay high fares to travel on a turboprop.

Southampton is a virtual BA monoply at the moment Bristol is facing a severe threat with GO taking much of their business, so why take a chance going head to head with another airline rather than building up and consolidating a base where there is little competion and a large catchment area, some of these decisions seem political rather than based on sound commercial sense.

Someone please explain to me how BA has survived for so long when it is so obviously such an appallingly run airline.

[Blue Bay]

Get a life Young Paul. Try posting something relevant, or do you spend all day checking all posts for correct grammar and spelling. You must be one of those guys who call "plus 1 kt", "1/8 dot fly down" etc,etc,yawn,yawn!!

[ajamieson]

TwinAisle you are absolutely spot on.

BA's commitment to routes outside England (with or without support from the devolved governments) is questionable. Unless, of course, they are very profitable (eg EDI/GLA-LHR).

Good luck to staff at CWL.

[160to4DME]

Shouldn't that read

BA's commitment to routes outside LONDON ???

160

[TwinAisle]

I wrote my epistle above in a fit of anger, having come off the 7806 (just as SLF, but some of us care!) and having seen some cabin staff who I've come to know over the years (I'm a BA CWL regular) having to smile and do their job in their usual pleasant and efficient way, knowing that the sword of Damocles was hanging over them.

That's what got me mad.

I put down - here and now - a challenge to BA CE management.

I work as a management consultant, and we do a lot of airline work. We could make the routes from Cardiff pay. No question. If the management at BA CE want to talk to me, I look forward to their email. Client confidentiality would not allow me to give out any details to anyone. Go on. Email me. What are you afraid of?

Being proved wrong?

TA

[Barcli]

Amazon Man is quite correct , there is no question that the club class pax from Southampton will not pay club class rates (£400 ish) for a dash 8 on the business service to/from Dublin and Brussells...
the other side of the coin is that BAA at Sou where very happy being a jet BA hub serving the outer London , reading , Woking , Basingstoke catchment areas, to this end they have resisted any proposals from Go, Easy etc as they (a) werent needed as competition and (b) BRAL would have threatened all sorts to the BAA management to resist it , being the main operator from the hub .....
Now Southampton can become a free for all as BA have just shot themselves in the foot with both barrells...
just wait and see...

[Rider of the Purple Sage]

Its all about politics, politics and politics. It has NOTHING to do with profitability. Like politics, no-one ever takes the blame, and targets are always met - because otherwise there would be no performance related pay being handed out.

Christ knows where we will end up with all this, we've got mainline pilots trying to shaft us from above, all in the name of helping us. We've got Management trying to shaft us every which way, in the name of their bonuses, and of course giving us a secure profitable stable future (hollow laugh).
We've got the lo-cost boys chasing us off some of our routes, and the bottom feeders (Aer Arann etc) just waiting to bite our sensitive bits left dangling, on other routes in the name of their own future. It really is enough to make me change my mind about a lot of things, from Mr Scargill's actions in the 80s. to British Steel, to Shipbuilding, to carmaking, to financial services........
The world is basically a jar of worms, with everyone trying to squirm to the top, and being pushed down by their neighbours. Even BALPA, our so-called union, has an axe to grind. Politics with BA, politics with Granshawe, Darke etc, and now Frohnsdorff chucking his 2 pennorth in as a supposed white knight!!

Who are we supposed to trust or believe?
The GPWS I guess, but it's been hollering 'Pull Up' for a long while now.

Rant over,

Disgusted of Manchester

[Just Another Number]

This is just a case of history repeating itself. Cambrian Airways is a name that comes to mind!

[AOG007]

Having already suffered at the hands of the BA Sh*ty Express Management, this new saga is of no suprise.

With 5.5yrs service with Brymon prior to my departure, I never came across such pathetic excusses as I did during the last few months. Now this was all from the then reigning BRAL contingent of useless mangement. But why, they had all been running a profitable airline before the merger, so how did they get it so wrong?

Simple, they wanted all the glory themselves! Thats why there are no ex-Brymon managers in the new set-up. These BRAL managers knew their business, but not Brymon's, and therefore have made a huge mistake during their attempts of a merger!

Operations/Crew Control - what a mess! Incredibly unhappy staff, and why? The management! Shambles! Don't know there a**e from their elbow. Island mentality.

Engineering - Two maintenance bases being Isle Of Man and Manchester? Why? Manchester makes perfect sense for the main maintainance base for the company due it central location, but trying to manouevure around Manchester makes it somewhat awkward. IOM, nothing goes there! Nobody goes if they can help it. So, during this period of saving money, lets spend a bucket load of time and resources sending AOG spares to that Rock, and then sending them back out around the country when it all goes wrong. Then lets spend a hek of a lot of money on unessesary fuel to ferry aircraft back and forth for maintenance inputs. How silly of me, all the above makes perfect sense if you want to protect the Rock!

Close BRS engineering, payout redundancy to 80 engineers. And lets leave a three year old hangar sitting pretty much idol.

BACX, management wake up. The staff will get the company through this period of difficulty, providing you pull your socks up and start behaving like an efficent management team, because at the moment your are completely incompetant, and soon unemployed. BA won't leave you in your positions for long. I've seen it all before, and trust me, your days are numbered.

I'm sure this will upset some people, but I don't care! I have many friends and colleagues who have been affected in a huge way, by the inadequecies of the reigning masters, and I can assure you that they are even more upset than you could possibly be by my rantings!

:mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad:

[Itlbefine]

AOG007 your post is emotive but your facts are incorrect.

1. Second base maintenance facility will be in GLA not MAN.
2. Main stores holdings are located at MDC (Manchester) not IOM.
3. Seeing as not all aircraft requiring maintenance will terminate
at BRS, IOM or GLA there will always be a need to fly aircraft to
the relevant base for maintenance.

No one wins in a situation like this. Best wishes to all affected by the review.

[PAXboy]

I have worked in telecommunications for over 20 years, across retail, local government, finance, pharmaceuticals, energy companies etc. Covering bother pemanent staff work and ten years freelance, I have visited over 120 companies, ranging from tiny to mega-corporation.

Unfortunately, what you are saying about BA is not special to BA! They are all like that. :eek:

What I mean is, that the companies that are doing it right are very few and very far between. It is not always the small ones that get it right, there is no pattern - other than that many companies are doing what other people tell them is right. Frequently it is consultants (and am I one of those myself!) but for the large companies, it is the stock market.

We are (as a country) in thrall to the Stock Market. The share price tomorrow is worth more than the share price in three months time. They will do ANYTHING to try and square the circle.

In all the posts that I have read about BA on PPRuNe in the last year, I have heard the same things about all the other major companies.

To close, one of the reasons that the UK is not doing very well (and some of us think it is going down the proverbial plug hole) is that the UK is governed by the same kind of people that are running BA! They are making the same kind of short-term decisions. Instead of the stock market, they are looking at votes but the result is the same.

Sorry to be of less than zero comfort. :confused:

[AOG007]

Itlbefine

Thanks for putting me straight on a couple of points. As I said in my previous post, I have already been shafted by the empire, and therefore all my info comes second hand from the people most affected by this latest round of cutbacks.

I hope that for the companies sake the few points you have raised are correct. Regretably though, I have absolutely no faith in the management of BACX, and therefore can see only problems created by these changes, that they have sat so long and hard to come up with.
There was one easy solution to the problems facing this company, close to Isle of Man. It is not cost effective, and they are unable to fill vacancies. The operations department is currently running several members light, and no-one is prepared to move from the mainland to work. Once again from my knowledge locals are being employed, and for all you familiar with the fictional town of Royston Vasey, this should explain the quality of candidates.

"This is a local company, for local folk, there's nothing for you here", complete muppets. Rude and insulting individuals, with no minds of there own. Its like there is a special power controlling their every move. And that is just the GM Ops.

Enough of my rantings, once again, thanks for the corrected points above.


:mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad:

[Pin Head]

Good luck to FSAS. Results overnight are unlikely but overall in the long run, I am confident that this will produce a sound operation.

Lets keep the show on the road and show professionalism in the job in all areas. Lets stop the bitching and give people, proposals and changes a chance. We are all still fortunate to be in a job and receive a salary every month which some folk do not.

Just a couple more points:

Stop slagging the jetstream, oK it is not the 'ideal' turboprop at the minute but the company would go bust if we hand them back bearing in mind the huge penalties

Look forward. Lots of people are in deep depression about having to move but S**t happens now and again. Generally we have got off very lightly considering the rest of the industry is in turmoil. Are we seeing a few individuals not wanting to change because it does not suit them? Get real, we are in the year 2002 and not the dark ages. The business has to move on. There are jobs for everyone in the company if you want them.

For things to happen instantly for the good will be impossibile. E.g crewing, give them a month and you will be able to get through first time. This goes to management decisions as well. Time is key for change to work.

[Duke of York]

So how come I hear there was nearly a strike at Manchester last week, with another one scheduled for this Friday? Everyone is working their sox off, especially the Emb guys, and the crewing situation, for whatever reason is getting worse. Most days, you just can't get through to them at all, and when you do, they are so busy they don't have time for you. Thats not counting the ones who are apparently new to the job, and still in a steep learning curve.
Is this strike business official, or are we starting to pull sickies again?:rolleyes:

[Barcli]

"pinhead" take those rose tinted specs off and wake up eill you, I have never heard such a load of crap... the industry isnt in turmoil... BACX/BA is ? why cant you understand the basics ?

[climbs like a dog]

I must congratulate you pinhead for the most subtle and delicate irony you display in your post. You surely can't have swallowed the management line so completely.....unless.......?

The heresy you utter about the jetstream not being ideal. You should be ashamed.

And you are correct about turmoil. The industry is in such turmoil that a lot of our competitors (particularly low-cost airlines - surely a misnomer) are posting record profits.

[NICK HEFF]

Pin head,
Thanks for your informative mail,I will tell my 2 year old that sh3t happens,and when my next child arrives in six weeks I will be pleased to tell her that Daddy cant pay the mortgage anymore because his planes gone to BHX.
Never mind.I could always bid for the j41 with my 7.5 year seniority and displace you.
Thanks again.
Nick

[climbs like a dog]

Mr Heff

Better not tell your 2 year old in quite those terms or Mrs Heff might give you a stern talking to when your 2 year old keeps repeating certain of those words.

I sometimes wonder if the people dreaming these ideas up ever think about the consequences of their decisions. I doubt it.

And pinhead. I doubt you'd be so sanguine if it were you having to consider uprooting your family. I've started making a life for myself and my family at my base and would certainly not be happy to be telling Mrs CLAD that we're moving. Also have there been consistent and messages from on high about the policy to be applied to movers in terms of bases on offer and seats available? Hmmm.

[Amazon man]

There are still too many points up in the air at the moment for people to be making descisions.

I have even been told by a colleague in the fire service at Southampton that the Scottish routes are stopping also and that Ryanair or GO will once again look long and hard at Southampton as a base, don't laugh these sort of people have been an accurate source of information in the past and when as staff were we ever the first to know

I suspect that BAA management will be reviewing their descisions based on BA Citiexpress announcement last week.

[Uncle Silas]

BALPA BALPA BALPA BALPA !!

Please contact them. If you are not a member, you need to join, and you need to join NOW! :)

They are the only people with no personalised axe to grind. They know employment law FAR better than our so-called management :mad: , and from the disunited and varied information handouts, (verbal and written) the management themselves don't appear to know what's going on. Why should they care, their household's, their wives, their kids, their kid's schools aren't going to move or change. The arrogant, unsympathetic approach of the 2jet fleet management has stunned even people who were previously supporters or ambivalent. Even where a tiny bit of empathy or sympathy is displayed, (see the J41 FM, not his Deputy), there's eff all he can do about it anyway.

Talk to BALPA, NOW!!!!!;) Under no circumstances sign ANYTHING, nor agree to anything, even verbally. This lot's best trick is to impose illegal changes; then after they have been accepted, apologise because they didn't know - yeah, right.
Don't let them get away with it.

It may be, like me, you have been anti-union on principal in the past, but a year's subscription is VERY cheap insurance for the shenanigans going on at the moment.

And no, I'm not going to post on the Company Forum with this. If the moderator thinks it is too rude, then I guess you won't get to read it - but I think you will. Maybe we should ignore the Company Forum - prospective new joiners to BACE need to know exactly what sort of organisation we are!

Lions led by donkeys.............:rolleyes:

[Nigel Nearly]

You are sooooo right. The stupid situation whereby the CAA admit our rostering pattern (consecutive earlies) is illegal, but allow us to continue with it because we've had it written into the ops manual, (which they approved), for the last 10 years, shows how the system works.

I hear the rostering and crewing situation is actually approaching genuine meltdown, with one of the most experienced rostering officers resigning as of a couple of days ago. The management just don't seem to realise that no matter how good the operational plan is, if there aren't enough bodies, it cannot work!!!

Look out for some really severe rostering disruption as they try to cope with a programme that doesn't work, and move aeroplanes and bases around at the same time. It could quite really be enough to bring us all down. Of course old Timbo, Ali McL and their mates don't give a hoot, 'cos they'll just leg it back to BA.
Its up to us, and as the previous post suggested, BALPA!

NO MEMBERSHIP - NO VOTE................no vote.......management win again.:( :( :( :( :(

[Yog-Sothoth]

Nigel, Silas etc, you are bang on. Reason for this post is that I don't want to identify myself, either on Intercom, or the 'new' Company forum. As a matter of interest though, has anyone read the 'intercom'. There's some twerp called Adair who seems to think that because HE isn't a member of BALPA, the negotiations should be ignored, and there should just be a straightforward vote on Tim's offer. He (Adair) must be either stupid, naive, or a Training Captain looking for further promotion.
We all had a democratic chance to vote on whether we wanted BALPA or not. After numerous Company delays, the vote finally happened, and their was a massive majority for BALPA to come in. These guys are working their butts off. Tim is delaying, changing and cancelling meetings, and generally trying to get his way in everything, while BALPA try to find a compromise acceptable to all concerned.
Does anyone SERIOUSLY think that Tim and his colleagues have better intentions for us than BALPA? Look at how they have stitched up the cabin crew. Look at how they are trying to get us a five year pay freeze!!!! BALPA are doing a fantastic job fighting a holding action against what is an attempt to lower our own package in real terms over the next five years, just read the small print and do your sums.

Trouble is, on 'Intercom' and the new company forum, only the brown-nosers will post, so we have lost an opportunity for uncensored self-expression. BOSD, I'm sure it's not your fault, nothing personal mate, I doubt if you're anyone except one of us - but you do see why I'm posting HERE, I hope. It's for the same reason that no-one has replied to Tim or this Adair character. The latter may not get whatever promotion he's after, but putting the opposite view is sure to damage one's prospects for the future - always assuming there IS a future.

[Yog-Sothoth]

Me again - oops. When I said only brown nosers will post, I meant about anything REALLY critical of Company policy. Their are plenty of good posts, but nothing with any significant meat on it, or mega-controvertial.

No offence intended,

Yoggy.

[stevobeevo]

For the attention of Amazon Man.

Do you really think that Ryanair would consider Southampton as a base seeing as though they currently fly to 2 destinations from Bournemouth Airport? The distance between the two airports is little over 35 miles and many customers who use Ryanairs routes from Bournemouth travel from Hampshire etc. I think that after having chosen Bournemouth as one of only three UK airports to host the new Frankfurt-Hahn route, that this shows their commitment to Bournemouth! Both the Dublin and Hahn route have high load factors and Ryanair have already stated that they are looking at connecting Bournemouth to other European bases.

Also, other low cost carriers are sniffing around Bournemouth as we speak! Can't say anymore as my contacts would kill me.

[160to4DME]

Stevobeevo

It's a badly kept secret that MAA plc are in intense negotiations with bmi baby for setting up at both BOH and MAN. :p

[stevobeevo]

As far as I'm aware the BMI Baby negotiations are just that, negotiations. My reference is to another low cost carrier that is almost ready to sign on the dotted line and start up would be July if all goes well. However, Bournemouth has been in this position before and things fell through at the last minute, so we're not celebrating until confirmed.

[NICK HEFF]

Oh
Our Citiexpress thread has turned into a ryanair advert just when it was getting interesting!

[Cattle Class]

Read the glossy handout "CitiNews Special" today (wonder how much that cost - colour too). It states that the strategic review of BACX will deliver annual savings of £20 million by 2004. Wait a minute - I thought they want a pay freeze for 5 years. And no money to pay jet crews displaced onto turboprops (SOU). And major upheaval for ABZ, CWL, BRS, SOU, BHD... So where is all this £20 million going by 2004 (2 years time)? Somebody is standing to get rich. And it isn't me. :confused:

[The Little Prince]

I wonder.......could it be being used for the Performance Related Pay bonuses that will be handed out on attainment of the Key Performance Indicators (KPIs) .

See how brave you are everyone. Why not ask TDLF, Chief Pilots, Training Managers, Training Captains, Fleet Managers, General Managers how performance related pay affects THEM. Go on, you have nothing to lose but your chains, and your innocence - although of course you will need to filter and judge the reply; remember how NMs article about his pay was suddenly amended by himself after all the other management saw it!!!!

That said, the saving is just numbers. They are hoping the City will believe it all - personally, post-Enron, I don't think the City are that thick.:confused:

[Eighty Bob]

[FONT=courier new][COLOR=red][SIZE=3]Does this work?

[Eighty Bob]

Nope

[Amazon man]

Stevobeevo,

First of all apologies to NICKHEFF for sidetracking this topic but it is sort of relevant.

Stevo if you think Ryanair will show any loyalty to Bournemouth just because it operates out of there at the moment then I am afraid you live in a parallel universe. Airlines and especially Ryanair will take advantage of what ever opportunities present themselves.

I agree Ryanair wouldn't operate out of both airports being so close, thats common sense. But given that the 737-800 aircraft has no performance problems at Southampton which I beleive it doesn't ask yourself which airport has better links rail and road, modern terminal and a catchment area that would include the same area as Bournemouth.

With recent changes at Southampton they may well decide to have a look.

PS anyone know where I can do a 737 rating?

[BOAC]

Can anyone give me FIRM info please on the Jersey base?

[Quasimodo]

For anyone contemplating a move to SOU in the coming months, please take time to research house prices in this area BEFORE returning bid forms.

Typically, you can expect to pay approx. £250k for a basic 4 bed property - athough obviously prices can differ slightly area to area by about 10%. As always, for those of you with children, be wary of schools in cheaper areas as these are generally not as good as the higher priced towns etc. Excellent schools can be found in Romsey, Chandlers Ford and Winchester.

For those of you blessed with being single and childless, apartments in Sou city are £160k and upwards and 3 bed properties are marketed at about £200k +.

New Forest area is particularly expensive (but nice). As an example, we were sent details of a 3 bed cottage in Minstead selling at £250k.

Hope these pointers help you folks out there - GOOD LUCK!

:eek: :eek: :eek:

Regards Q.

[Bendy Lady]

all very micky mouse. will there still be a brs jer and if so which ac will operate it?