Tayside - Loganair

[marcus1290]

Morning all,

I was up at Tayside speaking to them about CPL/ME/IR. They were basically saying that if you do the training with them you are virtually guarenteed a job with Loganair?

I know a mixture of pilots at Loganair who have joined from various flying schools, including Tayside. Are Loganair needing so many pilots or are there just very few going through the training courses?

I am based in Glasgow so Tayside at Dundee or ACS Flight Training at Perth are my preferred choice. I did all my training with Leading Edge at Cumbernauld who are linked to ACS and was keen to continue. BUT, if there are guarentees elsewhere?!

[M-ONGO]

I was up at Tayside speaking to them about CPL/ME/IR. They were basically saying that if you do the training with them you are virtually guarenteed a job with Loganair?

Complete tosh. Many moons ago (prior to flybe) there may have been some truth in this. Not anymore. They are a good FTO, though. But so are so many others.

[JB007]

Don't fall for it!

I joined Logi in 2003 and quite a few guys were still instructing at Tayside, that's the only connection I can think of it ever having!

[marcus1290]

I was pretty skeptical anyway, but how can they possibly get away with saying that they are fully affiliated with an airline? I have it from a few sources within the airline that they aren't very happy with the quality of instructors that are being put forward for assessments! I think its outrageous that Tayside can advertise that and try and get business off the back of it.

[mad_jock]

Loganair have taken quite a few FI's from around scotland on as FO's.

BUt to say your certain to get a job is rubbish.

In fact after this post I suspect the numbers that are taken from Tayside will drop due to them being cheeky sods telling prospective students this.

But then again things will be changing at Loganair with it being bought.

I suspect the accountants will have more input into the FO's being a revenue stream so the big three sales reps will be going like hell north to get cadetship schemes in place. I suspect it was always quite annoying to them they never got a look in and they did recruit a fair number of FO's.

170 hours in a Saab on the west coast of Scotland in winter. I really really do feel for the training Captains.

[RTN11]

A quick google bring up this

Newsletter - Aerospace, Defence & Marine Industry Newsletter - Tayside Aviation and Loganair Partnership (http://aerospace.newsweaver.co.uk/newsletter/1x1t1lkvfeq)

and this

http://www.taysideaviation.co.uk/welcome/tayside_news.asp

so it certainly does seem to be a formal agreement. However, the agreement is that they will take flight instructors from Tayside, not just people do did CPL/IR there.

There are certainly no guarantees though, and no school should be saying there are, but seems as good a chance as any. If you're going to do an FI, why not do it at a school where you can then instruct, and then on to an agreement with an airline.

[RJ.146]

Sounds like a load of :mad:

[4redsyourdead]

Basic CPL/IR graduating Tayside unless you know somebody at Loganair I would doubt you would stand a chance.Yes they have some sort of arrangent but Loganair have always recruited instructors from the Scottish Schools. So to use this as a selling point is very false. Unless your an instructor,you would be very unlikely to get a job and from previous years of watching Loganair recruiting, they take an equal amount of instructors from all schools be it Dundee,Perth,Cumbernauld,Prestwick.

[4redsyourdead]

I do have to say I don't have any issues with Tayside at all and rather the opposite with many friends completing training their all with extremely positive experiences. Just don't see it as your ticket into the airlines that's all.

[Dan the weegie]

They certainly have been saying this to lots of people, but with no contractual obligation to you to get you even an interview Any promises made like that are not worth the paper they are written on so to speak. I believe it is cow dung, but I don't know the facts so I would be cautious, perhaps if they are so sure of it then he would be willing to put his money where his mouth is?

I am sure they are fine, there were some excellent instructors there but most have gone, I trained with the guy at Perth he is superb and it is a friendlier place. You can also do your atpl exams at Perth on a proper student course. If I was doing it again in a similar situation I would do it at Perth, they are on the face of it, just trying harder to look after you.

I trained at Tayside and did not get an interview, in fact I am very glad I didn't otherwise I would not have had the chance to get into my job now which suits me more.
Good luck!

[DB6]

They were basically saying that if you do the training with them you are virtually guarenteed a job with Loganair?

Your words, not theirs, Marcus.

Despite what some have said here, there is an agreement between Tayside and Loganair. The links in RTN11's post are valid.
The reality is this; if you are an instructor at Tayside you will be considered for recommendation for the Loganair selection process (i.e. if you're crap, you won't be). As an example, all the female instructors in the picture on the Tayside link are Loganair pilots now.
If you do your CPL/IR training etc at Tayside and are good, you will probably be recommended to Loganair as well (again, if you're crap you won't). The training/sim profiles prepare you well for Loganair.
There is no exclusivity in this agreement and new FOs are taken from other schools/backgrounds as well. I suspect that what you were told is that you would have a good chance of an assessment, not a job. That is true.

[Icanseeclearly]

DB 6

You are almost right, in. Order to qualify for this scheme you need to be an instructor at Tayside, not a graduate.

It will only get you an interview which you may or may not pass.

It is not a guarantee in any shape or form.

Loganair does and will always recruit from all backgrounds, that's what makes it such a great place to work

[DB6]

I suspect it was always quite annoying to them they never got a look in and they did recruit a fair number of FO's.
mj, they did but their output was unsuitable for Loganair. Good system operators who can't fly are not worth the extra training required to bring them up to Loganair standards. Hence the instructor scheme - which is working very well. What might work for Pikeyair, where the travelling public can be protected from the low hour FO by automation, does not work for an airline where you both have to pull your weight in terms of flying ability - as I'm sure you're well aware.

[mad_jock]

DB6 you are preaching to the converted.

Just thinking back to some of those sporty days on the west coast.

I try and explain to my current collegues that 20G35knts down the strip isn't any thing special 40G60 with a 30knt xwind is getting sporty, mix in a NPA and cloud at OVC at 400 ft and we are talking a bit of a bitch of a day at work doing that 6 times. "Captains landing your having a laugh are you expecting me to fly half of the winter, crack on and don't make funny grunting noises on the intercom"

At least we could use the short runways though which made life a bit easier if the cloud base and viz were up to it.

[CaptainCriticalAngle]

How much does a Logonair FO earn? Someone straight from doing instructor work.

[TriBeCa]

Around 28K I believe. And it's Loganair

[DB6]

40G60 with a 30knt xwind is getting sporty, mix in a NPA and cloud at OVC at 400 ft

That's when it starts to be fun!

[Richard Phillips]

In any case, would it be advisable to pin your hopes on landing a job with Loganair as an instructor in scotland, or try your luck around London as there are more airfields (better connections?)

[Tinstaafl]

I had to laugh a few times in Shetland, returning from an ambulance flight. Weather too bad to get into Tingwall so into Sumburgh. Waitng for ATC/FISO to open the field so doing a holdng pattern in a 100 kt breeze was funny. No danger, but I'd have loved a moving map GPS so I could see what shape my pattern was. Bet it was nothing like the approach chart's diagram! Not often one sees 230 kt grounds speed in an Islander, followed by barely moving...

Ice, and partly iced, runways at night with 45 kt x/wind component. Definitely concentrates the mind. 'System managers' need not apply is a good policy for Loganair, methinks.

[mad_jock]

Could you not have gone forwards and backwards on the inbound radial?

[Groundloop]

so doing a holdng pattern in a 100 kt breeze was funny

Why did not not just head into wind and "hover"? ATC used to do that at Glasgow with Islanders occasionally many years ago.

[Tinstaafl]

Y'know, I didn't think of playing hovering & reversing games. The one that particularly sticks in my mind was some miserable hour of the morning and all I wanted to do was go to bed. Didn't stop me wondering about the shape of the pattern. Mostly I was just happy to get back to the aid.

[marcus1290]

"Your words, not theirs, Marcus."

@DB6 I'm just quoting what i was told at their open day. I don't think its fair to sell this to people when its in no way true. I have also heard form various different people that there have been a number of IR fails in the last few months and that the students are being sent to ACS for further training.

The way the economy is these days, every penny helps and i don't like being lied to so that i'll give them some of my cash. Being told that there would be a job if i trained with Tayside has lost them a student. After another visit to ACS, i think i'll be spending my money there and (hopefully) pass my IR first time.

Thanks for all the comments.

[4redsyourdead]

I'm sure you will enjoy ACS. Went their 2012 and finished the IR in six weeks first time in minimum hours. This was down mostly to the experience and professional training ACS offered. And regards to IR fails at Tayside, haven't heard anything really regarding that. I only know of one person recently partialling at tayside.

[RTN11]

"Your words, not theirs, Marcus."

@DB6 I'm just quoting what i was told at their open day. I don't think its fair to sell this to people when its in no way true. I have also heard form various different people that there have been a number of IR fails in the last few months and that the students are being sent to ACS for further training.

The way the economy is these days, every penny helps and i don't like being lied to so that i'll give them some of my cash. Being told that there would be a job if i trained with Tayside has lost them a student. After another visit to ACS, i think i'll be spending my money there and (hopefully) pass my IR first time.

Who was it that said this then, and what exactly did they say?

I don't know anyone who would ever say you are guaranteed a job, pretty much guaranteed really means a high chance if you are actually any good. In this industry there are never any guarantees, surely everyone knows that.