View Full Version : THE Kangaroo Route is about to become the Dragon Route

14th Mar 2013, 02:04
As national carrier Qantas seeks to shore up its Australasian routes through its recent tie-up with Emirates, China Southern Airlines has offered stand-alone flights from Sydney to London at a discount.
Once dubbed the "Kangaroo Route", the Chinese airline's cheapest economy-class return fare between Sydney and London, with a three-hour stopover in Guangzhou, for a two-week trip starting early May was $1442.

Read more: The great haul of China as China Southern Airlines offers flights from Sydney to London | News.com.au (http://www.news.com.au/travel/australia/the-great-haul-of-china-as-china-southern-airlines-offers-flights-from-sydney-to-london/story-e6frfq89-1226596753729#ixzz2NTYISUjh)


schlong hauler
14th Mar 2013, 02:19
Stop press. Qantas has announced that the new name to replace the famous Kangaroo route will be called the CAMELROO route.

14th Mar 2013, 03:51
We have a pic of a pretty China southern FA. What about one of QFs.
Then we can see which route should be called the dragon route!!

1a sound asleep
14th Mar 2013, 03:58
Thats nothing. UA is doing SYD-LHR for $1430 return via LAX


14th Mar 2013, 04:18
Granted CZ have far more pleasant cabin crew than QF, however last time I flew CZ was in 2010.

Crew included a very young FO that had graduated from their school in Western Australia 12 months before, and an even younger Second Officer on his first flight as crew (also a CSWAFC graduate).

I was seated in row 1, and behind me in row 2 were the very proud parents of the young SO.

About an hour into the flight the SO's parents were invited to the cockpit. 15 minutes later the captain comes back to the galley (leaving FO, SO and parents on the flight deck), and starts chatting up the two pretty flight attendants working the forward cabin.

After 10 minutes I hit the FA call button and asked the FA to ask the captain if it was legal to have family on the flight deck without the captain present! Captain bolted back to cockpit, family and second officer evicted for rest of flight! The purser apologised profusely to me at least 20 times asking if was going to submit a written complaint!

Although I have flown many times with CZ, they are not in the same league as QF!

$765 difference sounds like value to me!

motley flight crue
14th Mar 2013, 05:01
EK we take pilots from all over the world. We have NO mainland Chinese pilots. I know I wouldn't fly china southern. You pay for what you get. I go to Canton often. The food is rancid, can only imagine what it's like onboard

14th Mar 2013, 06:06
Their times are a bit weird.

DXB - LHR 7:40? You'd be passing Dublin in that length of time.


14th Mar 2013, 06:30
EK we take pilots from all over the world. We have NO mainland Chinese pilots. I know I wouldn't fly china southern. You pay for what you get. I go to Canton often. The food is rancid, can only imagine what it's like onboard

To be fair most Chinese pilots are bonded to their airline for long periods of time. Add to that coming from a Communist country where freedom of movement is restricted.

Whilst I wont be flying China Southern anytime soon its not like they are crashing aeroplanes every year..........that we are aware of would be the caveat.:hmm:

Curry Goat
14th Mar 2013, 06:38
Halas. Done 2 LHRs recently on the 380. Both block times over 7:40, so not sure what our point is.

14th Mar 2013, 08:00
Whilst I wont be flying China Southern anytime soon its not like they are crashing aeroplanes every year..........

This is similar to the view that the Qantas board have of the company that THEY manage.
It won't be until there is a lost aircraft that they will start to review their business model, after all, "it's not like they are crashing aeroplanes every year".

14th Mar 2013, 08:19

OK this is a promo video for CZ but the growth figures are astounding.
When speaking about SYD/LHR I believe convenient slots and layover times will determine the winning airline for this route ex Australia....

My question, who is the current quickest one stop to London offering discounts? and will EK and QF be able to compete via DXB with their planned slot times?

14th Mar 2013, 08:45
Ek are 5 times a day into LHR and 4 a day into LGW, plus at least twice a day to MAN BHX GLA. They are 3 times a day out of SYD MEL and PER, Twice out of BNE and once out of ADL. Which slot time are you worried about Tim?

The Don

14th Mar 2013, 09:20
Which slot time are you worried about Tim?The QF ones.... it appears the competition via SE Asia will be quicker (SIA)... and no QF to compete. As I see it, would I be mad to suggest QF 5/6 SYD/FRA be maintained, the 744s be replaced by the A380 and only one round trip daily to LHR via DXB? I doubt QF will generate enough capacity for two a day.... with all the competition clouds looming from China and elsewhere.. (I note the leg space is bigger on CZ in economy compared to QF's new configuration)

It appears EK have the route AUS/DXB/UK well and truly covered.

14th Mar 2013, 09:47
Just thought I'd try it myself on Webjet.

I picked a random trip 24/6 SYD-LHR returning 24/7.

Yes, China Southern was still the cheapest.

But what really hit me was the taxes - especially comparing Emirates and Qantas flying over the same route

Qantas: $1807 + $1105 tax = $2912
Emirates: $1858 + $463 tax = $2321

What would comprise this huge difference in taxes?

Capt Kremin
14th Mar 2013, 11:02
Maybe the EU emissions tax. As I understand it, EK only pays it on the flight length to Dubai, whilst Qantas pays it based on the flight length all the way to Oz.

14th Mar 2013, 12:47
Yeah but with at least a night in LA

Eastwest Loco
14th Mar 2013, 13:47

The difference in taxes is twofold.

The UK has departure taxes (hidden under similar rhetoric as used by Juliar regarding carbon emissions) that are driven by distance. LHR SYD is more expensive than LHR DXB where the EK flight number terminates. A new flight number goes the rest of the journey. Maybe QF should change flight numbers at DXB to get the greedy Pom fist out of their pocket.

The other factor is that Emirates have a much lower fuel surcharge than QF.

It is becoming increasing difficult to sell QF as they are pricing themselves out of many markets which makes me incredibly sad. It may be that short to medium term survial dictates this is the only viable path but it doesn't bode well for the future of International long haul.

As for China Southern, we have a larger percentage month by month using their services in all classes from Australia into Europe.

They have disgracefully good value fares, a very good network with codeshare oncarriage and we have yet to have a passenger with a bad experience.

I have not flown them myself and so must go on passenger feedback and it is all positive to the degree that I now have local CZ frequent flyer members, some from the area South of DPO where half the garden is grown to be smoked and it is cash onl;y for ticket purchase.

Best all


17th Mar 2013, 01:48
Comparing Qantas regular fares is stupid.

Qantas run a high-low pricing model, because with their brand reach they can.
About every 2-3 weeks there is another sale..

If you are a leisure traveller and book in advance and wait for a sale - Qantas is quite competitive, not the cheapest but competitive.

If you are a loyal Qantas flyer,or corporate, and just book anytime, well they make some extra margin.

Eastwest Loco
17th Mar 2013, 12:05

Generally speaking a good call.

However CZ fares are miles xcheaper on good availability, as are Swiss, Finnair, SAS and Au8strian fares via their various hubs.

We try to keep our QF numbers up, but it is becoming distressingly difficult.

Best regards