Last Hawker Siddley Trident 1c G-ARPO

[tony jarrett]

The last Hawker Siddeley Trident 1c is being restored right now and we have set a £3000.00 target to raise for maintaining the momentum of the restoration. With the target of completing the restore of the inside front as well as a good start on the fuselage outside we are now 505.00 into that target. We would like to ask if you can help push the total upwards to get us to this target . If you want to help with the restoration, you can through the website www.savethetrident.org (http://www.savethetrident.org). It all addds up and helps with the restoration of this last full example left in the world.
If anyone would like to be a volunteer also feel free to contact us through the website.. regards tony

[Allan Lupton]

I cannot be sure after all this time, but I don't remember many of BEA's Trident 1 fleet being 1C which was the version with the centre-section fuel tank and a higher MTOW to permit the use of the extra fuel. Are you sure 'PO was one?
I think it's a bit sad that the aeroplane is to be painted in an airline livery which it would never have had before, having only been owned by BEA/BA - what's wrong with:
http://www.savethetrident.org/wp-content/uploads/2009/11/G-ARPO_RedSquarePainting-150x150.jpg

[Groundloop]

All of BEA's original Trident 1s were 1Cs.

[avionic type]

AS an ex Trident avionic type and refueller, the 1C never had a center tank, the space where it was fitted on later types was where the A.P.U was fitted originally, but early on this proved to be a bit of an embarrassment the passengers were not impressed with the hot exhaust gasses melting the tarmac and the odd wet start so they were relocated on top of the center engine .
the Trident 1E was fitted with the center tank this type was flown by North East,Cyprus, Channel,and Iraqi airlines.
The Trident 2 had a Center tank plus a Fin tank but the 3 had just a center tank , can't remember what the China Airways had as I never worked them.. Hope this helps.:):):)
The down side was the aircraft fuel gauges read Kilos and were refueled to that, the "Dip sticks " beneath the wings were in Gallons, and the bowser delivered the fuel in Litres Oh Joy!!!!

[Skipness One Echo]

I think it's a bit sad that the aeroplane is to be painted in an airline livery which it would never have had before
Whose livery is it being completed in?

[avionic type]

According to their web page it has the 74/76 paint scheme hated by most of the Central Area for puttng that ruddy "Speedbird" just forward of the front doors, giving BOAC a boast about taking us over .:ugh::ugh::ugh:

[DaveReidUK]

Whose livery is it being completed in?

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/5/54/Northeast_Airlines_Trident_Fitzgerald.jpg

[Allan Lupton]

I was working on the performance manuals and route studies in Tech Sales at DH/HSA in the early 1960s when the various Trident definitions evolved and, as I wrote before, at that stage what made a T1 a T1C was the centre tank and the Design Weights to use it. It may well be that BEA chose to call 'em all 1Cs, but with two weight standards, later on.
The APU bay was behind the rear spar and the tank ahead of it, so the tank and APU could coexist. It was certainly a mistake to house any APU, let alone one as noisy as the Artouste, in that location and later T1s had the rear location as seen in the photos on the linked website.

Anent the future livery:
The linked website tells us "Our plan is to reassemble and preserve the aircraft in the colour scheme of Northeast Airlines, who flew Tridents from Newcastle and Teesside Airports in the 1970s, before mergin into British Airways."
From memory the BKS Tridents were 1Es anyway, but my point was that 'PO was a one-owner aeroplane so why not accept that?

[Allan Lupton]

Quote:
According to their web page it has the 74/76 paint scheme hated by most of the Central Area for puttng that ruddy "Speedbird" just forward of the front doors, giving BOAC a boast about taking us over.

So, as I wrote, what's wrong with this which is as delivered to the customer that ordered it?
http://www.savethetrident.org/wp-content/uploads/2009/10/ARPO-300x189.jpg

[ian16th]

The down side was the aircraft fuel gauges read Kilos and were refueled to that, the "Dip sticks " beneath the wings were in Gallons, and the bowser delivered the fuel in Litres Oh Joy!!!! Shades of the Blackburn Beverly, circa 1957.

Gauges in pounds, dipstick in gallons and the bowser delivering litres.

In those pre-calculater days it was all done on the back of a fag packet.

[toffeez]

During refuelling, I presume the fag was kept in his packet.

[DaveReidUK]

later T1s had the rear location as seen in the photos on the linked websiteWith the Artouste on the T1/T2s having been replaced in the early '70s by the Garrett, as fitted on the T3.

[mattfalcus]

The controversy over the colour scheme is not new to us. We understand that purists don't want a scheme on this aircraft when it never flew for Northeast. But please bear in mind the following:

- Most people who visit the museum are not purists. They're families who take their kids along on a weekend to see the planes and they don't know whether each plane looks like it did when in service.

- Northeast Airlines was a local Trident operator to the museum, operating out of both Newcastle and Teesside Airports. This is something for locals to be proud of, and perhaps learn about when they come to visit. It's intended to be a tourist draw in itself to come and see our local airline preserved.

- One side of the aircraft will have British Airways titles. These were painted on Northeast aircraft shortly before they were fully painted in BA colours.

- We will never shy away from the true identity of this aircraft. It will still be painted as G-ARPO; our website details its true history; displays onboard the aircraft will display pictures and information about its history flying for BEA and BA.

- Other preserved Tridents cover the BEA Red Square (Duxford), BEA Green (Manchester & DeHavilland Museum), and British Airways Red (Dumfries Museum) schemes. None currently cover Northeast Airlines.

I hope that explains where we're coming from, and I hope you'll all still continue to support our bid to save this plane. There's still a long way to go and we need support!

Matt Falcus
Save The Trident
www.savethetrident.org (http://www.savethetrident.org)

[LAS1997]

With the dissapearance of BKS/Northeast into British airways in 1974; very few of your visitors Matt will even remember the airline. Unless of course they are former employees or very old visitors. The fact is the G-ARPO never flew for BKS/Northeast and you are distorting history in affect. Surely most people will remember British airways and the Newcastle - Heathrow service; especially younger people in which G-ARPO flew. It would be far better to see the Trident 1C in 'British airways' colours from the 1970's and perhaps a display on the history of the route including BKS/Northeast involvement.

[oftenflylo]

As I once heard Charles Church say to somebody complaing about the colour of his Spitfire. "When you have one you can paint it any colour YOU want". He then turned around and continued in the queue awaiting a burger - at Andover Strut fly-in on his strip.

[Skipness One Echo]

Hi Matt, I agree, you've got this one wrong. G-ARPO was a BA machine, an airline that is much better known than Northeast. With the Cosford Trident gone and the Wroughton one invisible to most, there are no preserved British Airways liveried Tridents. There's not a lot left of G-AWZJ at Dumfries or the aircraft at the Manchester Air and Space Museum.

[Allan Lupton]

I don't know what you mean by BEA Green, but if you don't like the livery the thing actually carried, you could revert to the brochure which showed a version of the "real" BEA livery like this Viscount has:
http://i1301.photobucket.com/albums/ag111/airshowconsultants/Daily%20Kos%20-%202nd%20album/600resizeviscount.jpg

[mattfalcus]

Well that wouldn't do your argument much good since Tridents never wore that BEA scheme either :confused:

BEA Green - the Union Jack one.

What about the "BOAC" Comet 1 at Cosford? Never flew with them. Are they distorting history too?

And I don't agree that just because all visitors to the museum might not remember Northeast Airlines, they can't be represented. I go to museums to learn about the past.

[DaveReidUK]

What about the "BOAC" Comet 1 at Cosford? Never flew with them. Are they distorting history too?Well, yes.

How about painting one side of 'PO in an authentic scheme (preferably the red square) and the other side as Northeast ?

[Wyvernfan]

Or how about you stop acting like school kids who can't have there own way and instead support the project. What these guys have achieved in saving and moving an entire airliner on very limited resources deserves an award in itself. I say again... SAVING AN ENTIRE AIRLINER.! :D

As has already been said if you go upto the owner of an airworthy type and complain about the scheme you'll be practically told to bu**er off.
There are several types around that i don't particularly like the colour scheme of, but it doesnt stop me being grateful that its actually still there in the first place for me to enjoy.

Now you've had the reasoning behind the choice of the colour scheme (which for one i never even knew about) so why not congratulate them on being different and reviving a livery, instead of going for 'same ole same'.
There's more to life than the obvious peeps.


Rob

ps.. i've donated twice already to this worthwhile project, and will be happy to do so again, regardless of colours :)

[Groundloop]

If they want a Newcastle themed livery the old BKS scheme on the Trident was far more "sophisticated" than Northeast's hideous yellow.:ok:

[Allan Lupton]

Wyvernfan's choice of language seems inappropriate here.

Quote from mattfalcus
And I don't agree that just because all visitors to the museum might not remember Northeast Airlines, they can't be represented. I go to museums to learn about the past.

Yes and real artifacts which are part of that past are much more valuable than the photos and computer simulations that, all too often, we find instead. But they should be "right".

Oh and that Comet 1A that's at Cosford would have been built for BOAC and, for all I can remember, may have been painted before cancellation.

[TURIN]

Never heard of NorthEast, or that they were swallowed up by BA.
If nothing else, painting it yellow will get people to ask questions. IE. WTF?

Good luck in your endeavours, whatever colour scheme you choose.


RE: refuelling.

DC-!0s of Continental used to fly into MAN a few years back.

A/C gauges - Ibs.
Bowser - Litrs.
Sticks - Inches (i think)

The flight crew wanted the uplift converted into gallons.

We were only used to KGs and Litres.

Some clever BA Eng at LGW came up with an A4 sheet -Refuelling DC-10s for idiots. Brilliant, had all the conversion tables and a block diagram to insert fuel figures and conversions.

Saved a few headaches-and lots of fag packets. :ok:

[srobarts]

Oh and that Comet 1A that's at Cosford would have been built for BOAC and, for all I can remember, may have been painted before cancellation.
According to this site (http://www.oocities.org/capecanaveral/lab/8803/fcomette.htm#production) was built for and delivered to Air France.

[Wyvernfan]

Allan Lupton wrote "Wyvernfan's choice of language seems inappropriate here".


Really - In what way?

Its very easy to sit at a computer and dismiss peoples efforts and choice of livery for an aeroplane that they have worked extremely hard to preserve, just because you don't agree with it. Its also very easy to go to their website and make a donation to help and encourage their efforts.

Or alternatively Allan Lupton, if you feel so strongly about the colour scheme then why not offer to pay for it to be painted in your choice of colours?


Rob

[toffeez]

"I was working ..... in Tech Sales at DH/HSA".

Sales? Must have had plenty of spare time to go spotting!

[Cornish Jack]

I thought that this looked pretty good ...

http://i647.photobucket.com/albums/uu193/CornishJack/TridentdemBKKa_zps5b6ee175.jpg

Trident world sales tour at Bangkok Don Muang early 60's

[SWBKCB]

Wyvernfan has said everything that needs saying at #20

Keep up the good work, Matt and the team (and yes, I have put my money where my mouth is!)

ps 'WF should be in Cambrian colours!

[mattfalcus]

Thanks guys. No hard feelings here - as I said, we understand the controversy over the livery.

But we're all aviation fans and reading this thread because we have an interest in seeing this aircraft restored. We're grateful for all the support we get and are putting a lot of time into trying to get the resources to complete the project for all to enjoy.

[tony jarrett]

Hi All,
I am the guy who is leading this project and the hard working, great bunch of guys , and girls may I add that have got this aircraft to where we are today.
I appreciate that to some not putting the aircraft back to its original spec is so called 'wrong' as they say but our project is not about one Trident airline. The Trident G-ARPO is the aircraft that is going to represent the whole Trident story. From the Domestic Trident carriers to the few foreign carriers that used the Trident . The cockpit will be all original 1c , inside the front cabin BKS and rear cabin BA/BEA. the seats will be laid out in the BEA layout to BEA but covered in BA. Outside will be the merger Trident of Northeast into BA..... Inside memorabilia and stories will cover all the other airlines..... So please try not to judge at this stage until you have seen the finished article........ One better if you are a Trident fan and want to volunteer to help then step forward, get involved and be a part of it.. Also the museum are always looking for volunteers if you don't want to work on the Trident... what about a viscount fuselage, outside only...
Hope this helps settle some of the points raised and maybe have made you look at it at a different angle.

cheers peeps tony

[tony jarrett]

Hi All
A most successful day at the museum yesterday with Trident PO being moved within the museum. This is a much better place for her and will allow us to bring the Cosford steps over. Go to the Save the Trident website Save The Trident » Preservation of Trident 1C G-ARPO (http://www.savethetrident.org/) for the full story and a selection of pictures of the day

[Ocean Person]

Tony Jarrett

Re your mention of having memorabillia inside the restored Trident

I trust you will include something on the Tridents operated by the People's Republic of China who used them in both a civilian and military capacity. For many years the personal VIP Trident of Chairman Mao Tze Tung was displayed at the Military Museum in central Beijing (not to be confused with the China Aviation Museum in outer Beijing). It was missing from its location near the museum's entrance when I was there recently.
Of course the most infamous Chinese Trident was the aircraft that Chairman Mao's heir apparent Vice Premier Lin Biao used to try and escape to the Soviet Union after a botched coup D'etat. It crashed in Mongolia and was officially said to have run out of fuel. Chairman Mao gave orders for the crashed aircraft and its occupants to be oblitrated but only recently someone in Mongolia has been trying to sell what is claimed to be souvenir parts of this Trident.
An interesting story here for some aviation buff to follow through.
Regards

O.P

[tony jarrett]

Yes O P will include it all, No doubt Neil will know more on the stories of the parts in Mongolia.

[Ocean Person]

Tony;

Thanks for your reply. Pleased to hear the Chinese CAAC Trident story will be there. I recall those CAAC Tridents when they first started coming into Hongkong way back in the early 1970s. They were of interest then because it was the beginning of the time when all things in China started to change. The pilots of CAAC did not appear to have any problems slotting into the Kai Tak chequer board approach to RW 13 ( no IGS in those days only the CC NDB ) The word was that they were all military pilots but they handled the Tridents nicely. It was good to see them coming and going at Kai Tak. To aviation people they were just another operator, no politics amongst pilots. All the best with the restoration. Regards,

O.P.

[WHBM]

I'm surprised at the reference to Northeast Tridents operating from Teesside, as I had the impression that BKS had given up the London service from there before the Tridents came along, and that they were just used on the Newcastle to Heathrow service, Heathrow to Bilbao (for some obscure reason), and IT charters from both Newcastle and Heathrow.

[tony jarrett]

Hi WHBM
I am sure we have a pic of the Northeast Trident at Teeside, I will have to clarify that with Neil Lomax, hes the encyclopedia of all things Trident

[N707ZS]

There is one here from the DTVA photo archive.

Images From The Past - Page 12 (http://www.dtvmovements.co.uk/images/Imagesfromthepast/Page12.htm#G-AVYC)

[Flightwatch]

The Tridents never operated scheduled services from MME. I don't remember if they did charters but they would have been occasional visitors on diversion from NCL. The BKS/Northeast Viscounts were frequently seen there due to the weather in the Yorkshire Riviera.

As far as I remember all Teeside scheduled services were given up in the BKS days in the late 60s before the Tridents appeared.

[DaveReidUK]

Lots of great air-to-air shots of assorted pre-delivery Tridents in this promotional video, including Northeast as well as assorted BEA/BA, CAAC and (very briefly) PIA.

HS-121 Trident.(The first of the three engined and T tail series) - YouTube

[tony jarrett]

Thank you for clarifying the NE tridents at MME. We know now there was no scheduled service to LHR with the Trident . Diversion or charter took them there on occations.
great video footage of the Tridents in action, thank you for sharing that Dave,

[tony jarrett]

Hi all
We have now successfully removed and brought back to the museum the Spey engine nacelles ,intakes and jet pipes that were on BAC1-11 ZE432 at Boscombe Down military airbase. This now gives us everything we need to complete the no1 and no3 engine nacelles.
I just want to say it was a fantastic team effort with 5 of us going down to remove them and with our remaining team members helping the unload at the museum the following day. Would like to thank Holiday inn for giving 2 of our team who drove down with the van and scaffolding theday previous a free night sleep and breckie and also HSS for letting us have the 2 x 3m towers with 70% off. And of course we would very much thank all the guys at QinetiQ who gave us the nacelles and helped us hugely on the day from sourcing 2 of the parts around the military base which wernt on the aircraft.
Such a successful day with no problems at all... and what a boost for G-ARPO
Cheers Tony

[N707ZS]

When is the tail section going to be re-united Tony?

[tony jarrett]

When is the tail section going to be re-united Tony?


Our priority is we would like to get the fuselage inside and out done first so we can start receiving the public on board then we can start to address the tail and the wings which do require some corrosion works first and that is easier while they are off the aircraft.
The museum are also about to aquire some more land as they are expanding quite big in the next two years and it is very much down to them to where we will be finally located and have permission to put these items back on. We have lots of work to be doing before we can get to that stage , As you can see with only a few of us volunteers it takes quite a while to get through each stage doing it right.. We are always looking for more volunteers to help
But to answer it directly and honestly id say 2 years

cheers tony

[Dave's brother]

I have to say I'd never heard of a British airline called Northeast. For half a minute, there, I thought you were referring to this American classic, 'Yellowbird', which became part of Delta in the early '70s, I believe.

Northeast Airlines Boeing 727-295 N1645 (msn 20139) (Yellowbird) FLL (Bruce Drum) (historic photo) | Flickr - Photo Sharing! (http://www.flickr.com/photos/40168621@N07/4110664858/)

[tony jarrett]

Yeah I think a few people get a bit confused with the American , North east

Had some great news for the Trident as we have had a very kind sponsorship from Thorne and Derrick who are going to supply the underground ducting so we can run the power cable from the mains to the aircraft safely underground . We would like to thank them very much for their kindness .
Trace Heating, Process Heating, IBC Heating Jackets, Drum Heaters, Leak Detection, Air Warmers, Immersion Heaters, Fan Heaters, Refrigerant Gas Detection, Water Meters, BREEAM, Safety Showers (http://www.heattracing.co.uk/)

[tony jarrett]

Hi All
Please check out the latest work on the galley front cabin and latest addition with Trident G-ARPO. Front section almost complete . We are now trying to raise the money for the fabric for the front seats and any one who can help us it will certainly be very much welcome.
Save The Trident » Preservation of Trident 1C G-ARPO (http://www.savethetrident.org/)

[tony jarrett]

Hi All
Well its been quite a while since we have posted up on Ppune and we are delighted to inform everybody that Trident G-ARPO will officially open to the public on July 11th .Most of the fuselage inside and out will be completed and i think you will like what we have done inside
We are having a big opening event day with at present 43 of its past pilots in attendance and a few of her former stewardesses. The event day will also feature many classic cars, Rolls Royce's, Old motorbikes , Birds of prey , computer flight Sims , bouncy castles, face painting, as well as the exhibits already at the museum including many military aircraft ,Vulcan Bomber , trams, Military vehicles .
We are also having a raffle with some fantastic prizes which are
2 x open return tickets to either Madrid, Barcelona, or Paris ( winners choice)
Pontins Holiday for 4 people
Flying lesson to the value of £125.00
A photographic session and silver frame package worth £245.00
A £50.00 'Experience days' voucher
The event opens at 10 and finishes at 4 at the North East aircraft museum in Sunderland
All monies from the sale of the raffle tickets will go towards the restoration of the wings and tail which is the next stage we shall be starting.
If you are coming to the event you can buy raffle tickets on the day or if you cant and want to enter you can buy them through our website Save The Trident | (http://www.savethetrident.org/) . I shall fill the stub out on your behalf , scan them and send you an email with the scans to show that i have filled them out and then send you in the post the slip part of the ticket that you keep. Tickets are a £1.00 each. We are trying to raise £2500 for the restoration of the wings and tail.
regards Tony Jarrett