Failed Class 1

[letsflyuk2000]

I recently went down to Gatwick and had my class 1 medical, only to find out that I was failed due to abnormalities in my eye curvature, which suggested that I had been using vision correction techniques. They said that they were not happy in giving me a class 1 because I had almost certainly been wearing corrective lenses.

I am completely gutted at the present time and feel that I have ruined what could have been a fantastic career.

JB

[rmmonteiro]

sorry for you letsflyuk:( !

did you have laser or that method (bates) i think , they talk sometimes?

what kind of exam did they do to you to find that out?

if it wasn´t laser:

how old are you , maybe if you wait some 2 or 3 years for your eyes to go back to normal as they were before ,and then you do laser,since that is already permited in the uk isn´t it? maby that time it will be better for you!!;) ;)

cheers, all the luck!!!

RMM

[N2334M]

Hello letsflyuk2000 !!

Did you take laser surgery or did you take orthokeratology ?

You are speaking about eye cornea curvature abnormalities, are they reversable or not ?

If you have had laser surgery they are not reversable. I passed a class 1 having had PRK laser surgery on my right eye only 6 years ago, and the doctor told me that I had recover very good from the surgery and that I had no problems with it...

If you took ortho-k the things are different because it is a completely reversable therapy. I mean that if you quit to wear the lenses the cornea shape will return almost to its previous shape.

That's why I don't understand your rejection, could you please bo more specific telling me what kind of "corrective lenses" where you wearing ?

Bye,
N2334m.

[Tobago]

I beleive you performed ortho k treatment, but just like another member said it is not a disqualifier.
Look at the legislation-http://www.jaa.nl/jar/jar.html
and press the fcl airplanes link.
ortho k is not surgery, and your eyes can go back to what they where, but what is the purpose.
There are pilots flying class 1 with ortho-k tretments (FAA) and the complications to their eyes where none.
Obviously it depends on the job performed by your physician.
The jaa states theat you should niot have decreased night vision, and .75 difference from day to night. If in the UK they are giving you a hard time, then ask them why? If your eyes are ok, then they should allow you to fly.
JAA regulations exist for the safety of all of us, however some doctors are a bit overzealus about complying to the rules.
Faa for example 20/20 corrected. You can have large prescription glasses and be a pilot. Europe is just somewhat behind in some matters....
Best of luck don´t give up.
(sorry about long post)

[N2334M]

Hello Tobago,

I got your very interesting feedback on FAA Professional Pilots flying with ortho-k undertaken. Do you have any news on how this therapy is considered under JAR regulations, and what does UK CAA say about that ?

In replying to the purpose of ortho-k, I can say that the purpose is to have more than a perfect vision during all day without wearing glasses or contacts. Infact you can get a little bit over the 20/20 limit with ortho-k (depends on your previous diopters), that should be a lot interesting for pilots who have to focus at the same time at the cockpit EFIS displays, and with the traffic which is miles and miles further away...

Anyway "cornea curvature abnormalities" are not implied in ortho-k therapy, so I guess that letsflyuk2000 was referring to a laser surgery, which certanly performs what they call "corneal aberrations".

Again, do you have any feedback on JAR regulations regarding ortho-k therapy ??

Any kind of help would be really appreciated.

Thanks,
N2334M.;)

[crazypilot]

Hello...
My prescription is well over the -5 limit (its more like -6 in total, including the astigmatism). Hence, I am considering having Ortho-K aswell.

What I would like to know is whether the CAA can detect whether you have had Ortho-K or not.

Since I have quite dodgy eyes, I cannot be fully corrected with the lenses (the website states up to -4 works well I think) which means I may still be left with a -1 or-2 prescription. Would I therefore be able to go to the CAA with glasses of this strength?

I'm still at uni at the moment, and like everyone else with this problem, hope the CAA will revert to the FAA standards soon, but in the meantime, I have to consider other options !! (laser, Ortho-K, eye replacements, etc :) )

letsflyuk2000.....don't give up mate !!! There's got to be a way around it somehow

Best wishes

CP

[rmmonteiro]

crazy pilot:
from what my eyedoctor told me , they can´t find that you had laser sugery 2 or 3 months after. the only way is to have you to do a test that is not very usual, only a few places do it and it´s expensive!;)
best regards!

RMM

[crazypilot]

rmmonteiro

Thanks for your reply. I guess the eye doctors at the CAA would require your previous prescriptions or something though, and don't know if it could be bluffed !

On the other hand, Ortho-K (the magic contact lenses, are just like normal contacts, but mould your eyes at night, so I don't think they can be detected.

Cheers

CP

[Tobago]

All i know about the European air law is what is published at the JAA site, if you use the links above, on my other post you will be able to see a pdf (acrobat FILE) with jaa regulations for health.
At the end of the document appendix to part B i think paragraph 1 and 7 have the numbers for eye restrictions.

Doctors at the med checks arent stupid, Lasik is much more easily detected because there is always some corneal scarring, and even if you had it a couple years ago, it can still be detected in an eye exam that any employer will perform, and that should be performed at the med checks.

I am a greater fan of ortho k because it is not permanent, and it is not nearly as traumatising to the eye as lasik. Mind you it can still be detected in a topographical examination of the eye, when I had my class1 they checked.
Also orthoK is a reversable process. Obviously if your eye doc prescribes some incorrect contacts, your eye will suffer the consequences of suffering a little trauma (nothing like surgery lasik, where there can also be many complications like hallos, dryness of the eyes, loss of focus....It is a bit complicated...)

I think the issue is not to try and fool anybody because even if you pass, your employer will check and you will not be hired.

The issue is ok i had lasik (Faa) I will not be able to fly from 6 to 12 months and then after the surgery effects have stabilized my aviation doctor can check that there has been correct healing of the eye, and no adverse effects, then you shoul be able to fly again( and you can in the US-faa but you do have to declare to the faa that you had surgery!)

In the case of ortho k I think the same applies, ok I am doing the ortho k treatment , but my eyes have stabilized, and I have no complications with night vision, or decreased eyesight at the end of the day...Fine I can safely perform my job, so I should be able to fly.

This makes much more sence to me then, Oh had surgery we don´t know much about that and we heard some people had complications-NO CLASS 1. Oh had ortho k OOOPs NO Class1.

This in my opinion is not based on the jaa regulations which don´t even mention ortho k, only surgery, and even the jaa says you can be qualified to fly if you have proven that you meet the standards of eyesight after surgery.
From what I hear in the UK, docs are a bit tighter with the law (Jaa), but this should not be so because JAA is for Europe, and the purpose is to be able to have a standard, safe exam that would be the same anywhere in Europe, no buts or ands, just sticking to what the JAA says, if you can read the chart...and...and... then it should be the same anywhere in Europe.
We are not in the military, and even US military is testing lasik on their pilots to decide if it will be aproved, what can happen to make us lose our glasses? A suden depressurisation? We are not flying open cockpit planes with our glasses hanging by our ears...Come on!!!
In the past pilots with glasses have performed aerobatics, and been world champs! They have been captains for the US airforce1 plane of the US president, and many airline captains... Obviously there should be a minimum, but things should change, and the Jaa is in my opinion a good thing, but still many issues exist due to its young age, and slow adoption (and interpretation) of the standards by many countries.
Best Regards, I have medicals next week and I will let you know how things go...:cool:

[Pitts S2B]

On the subject of ortho-k and the new technique called corneaplasty being detectable. I was told by a Doctor who specialises in orhto-k that it is detectable but only if they go looking very hard for it and even then some eye docs will say yes you have had it and some will say no.

In case any one is wondering Corneaplasty is a new technique in development for refractive correction, it has many advantages over the laser based methods because it is non surgical and has significantly reduced side effects.

Here is a link that explains it all

http://www.supervisioncenter.com/future_corneaplasty.htm

[rmmonteiro]

hi there tobago.
tambem sou português . tens problemas de visão? quantas dioptrias?
gostava de entrar em contacto contigo para saber como correram os exames. vais faze-los no INAC?
estava a pensar fazer a operação a lazer, e o meu medico disse que estava por agora fora dos limites,mas dentro dos novos ( já em vigor no uk) e supostamente no resto da europa a partir do inicio do proximo ano 2003.
por outro lado disse-me que não havia problema com o lazer ,e que não deixava marcas.
tens algum conhecimento acerca disto? algum caso de insucesso? como me pareceste tão ceptico no teu comentário!!?

boa sorte para os exames
melhores cumprimentos

RMM:)

[rmmonteiro]

so letsflyuk2000, any news ?

[N2334M]

I have the proof that ortho-k can be revealed by a corneal tophography.

Though I need to know what JAA thinks about this therapy. A previous post said that it is not mentioned, but I was told by an AME in Spain, that ortho-k is not allowed...

Anyway, if anybody has any idea where to get some more information...

Thank you.

[Kestrel_909]

What is the spec for CAA eyesight with corrective lenses? If I remember correctly, last time my opticain said I was with glasses, getting better than 20/20 I think. (I now believe it is done in 6/6, metres). This worry has been buggin me for ages and I still have many moons to go before getting a medical. I am just shortsighted, I can read the PC monitor no problem, its just things like teletext on Tv from 10feet when I do have difficulty and somethings in school on the board, manily which I blame on the teacher writing on a white board with a light orange pen:rolleyes:

How often does a Class1 medical have to be re-issued?Every x many years.

[N2334M]

every one year for Class 1.

After 40 years old things do change...

Check caa website, you'll find lots of info there...