Black Swan Capital HK

[VCLXI]

Can anyone recommend any good Financial Advisors in HK? (If there is such a thing)

A friend of mine was using Black Swan Capital but he received a bad service. So they are off the cards.

Any help would be appreciated

VCLXI

[Frogman1484]

The best financial adviser is yourself.
I have spoken to a few of them in HKG. So far none of them have convinced me to hand over my money.

Firstly they all try to tie you into a locked fund where you cannot get your money out for years (this typically pays them the most commission). Most funds are just a middle man. They take your funds and give them to a third party who then invest them into their funds.This is not diversified!

The problem with this is that if the third party goes under, you loose everything.

This also means that the funds are not in your name, all you are holding is a piece of paper that says you own those funds.

Ahhhh I can keep going on here with all of the reasons I have turned down all of the HKG "Advisers".

What I do and it's working really well, is to subscribe to a few good newsletters (they do cost money) and use their research for my own portfolio. I follow some basic portfolio building rules (plenty of information on line on how to build your own portfolio).

This for me is the best way going forward.

[LongTimeInCX]

Ditto with Frogman.

All the financial advisers truly care about is making enough money themselves to retire with.
Clearly without gullible people to hand over their hard earned money, they would be out of a blood-sucking job, and perhaps have to find a real job.

They have no vested interest in your financial health other than keeping you on their hook, as their sights are normally fairly aimed at nothing more than products which give them good upfront or trailing commissions, your success is merely an after sight. Just for fun, try asking one of them about a reasonable product you have researched and like, they will almost always always steer you to their preferred products for 'this' very good reason and 'that' very good reason. Take their product and compare.
Once you examine their products - and all the fine print (the devil is in the details!!)- you can easily poke holes in their reasoning. So if you are going to spend time reading their fine print in detail - as anybody handing over money would do, wouldn't they? - why not spend your time in a more productive way........

So again, take a little time to sign up for some of the paid investment subscriptions, there are freebies out there, but their recommends are seen by thousands and prices move quickly. The smaller paid subscription financial newsletters are read in general by a smaller audience.

Funds are good diversification but you pay a premium, as every fund has managers who need to get paid - by YOU!
With company shares, you can diversify even more, many pay good dividends, and whilst yields are good (know the phrase?), you don't need to chase such yields at the expense of overlooking good shares and blue chips. Have a good spread of companies, trade online, and remember to diversify across a spectrum of company types.
How adventurous you are will, or at least should be dictated by how long you have to go before retirement, and you can afford to be a little adventurous and chase some potential high growth areas if you have maybe 7-10 years to go before you pull the pin.

But when you pull it, at least it's all in your name. The seniority list is littered with the names of aged people who should be lying on a beach, and could have been had they not given their moolah to a HK financial advisor.

DIY is by far the best bet for anyone with an IQ in 3 figures.:ok:

I'm a late learner, otherwise I wouldn't still be here, but I work on the principle of measure twice, cut once. I agree it takes a little time, but having researched well, I don't have to micro-manage, its satisfying, and its all in my name.
Good luck!

[Frogman1484]

When they offer me a locked in investment I blow them up by saying: " If this investment is so good, you would not need to tie people in it! They would stay in there on their own accord".

They never have an answer to that.:=

[VCLXI]

Thanks guys, some wise words have been said here.

Can anyone advise me on the paying newsletter sites for good advice?

Many thanks once again

VCLXI

[1200firm]

Do. Not. Give. Anyone. Else. Your. Money. End. Of. Story.

[Dan Winterland]

The best advice as to where to put your money is to ask your fellow pilots what they are doing - and do the opposite. Lets face it - we're usually crap at investing!

PS. Top tip - go to Macau and out it all on red!

[cxorcist]

It seems like there are a lot of rip-off scams in HK. That said, I agree with Rod. Unless you are well versed in modern portfolio theory, I think professional advice is worthwhile. In the States, it is available with excellent service for less than 1% per annum. This is not a trading service, but for long term investors with specific time horizons and risk tolerance. Try Charles Schwab in HK and ask about their private client or Windhaven programs. Both are excellent.

[Frogman1484]

For Australian stocks you cannot go wromg with "The intelligent investor" Intelligent Investor (http://www.intelligentinvestor.com.au/)

:ok::ok:

[PanZa-Lead]

Well 95% of home traders will lose their money in the stock market. Over a very long period I have used a finical adviser with a well known company and they have done very well for me. His fee is a % of the money they make for me. Therefore a bigger fee means bigger money for me. Like Froggy says dont lock your money in for any time period. But I would not do home trading in the stock market as you WILL lose your money. Not only that but all the guys I know that home trade are BORING as that is all they talk about and they spend most of the time on the computer with NO life. I pay high fees to someone but he makes me money and I have a life.

[777300ER]

Baloney...that's like saying:

Do not give your car to a mechanic.
Do not give your kids to the teacher all day.
Do not let the doctor touch you.
Do not let the carpenter into your house.
Do not call the plumber ever.
Do not let an accountant do your taxes.
Do not hire a lawyer to defend you in court.
Do not buy electronics from an electronics store.
Do not buy insurance.
Do not use sunblock.
Etc.

If your anecdotes involved any industry other than the financial sector, you'd have a good point. Given the events of the last 5yrs, if you still think that financial "professionals" have your back, good luck to you!

[Adam Nams]

Well 95% of home traders will lose their money ...

67% of all statistics could be made up on the spot. :)

Just curious where you got that 95% figure from.

[Frogman1484]

Dont get a home trader confused with a home investor!

I dont think this is about trading.

I think trading is " picking up pennies infront of a steam roller"

[PanZa-Lead]

I read that statistic in The Australian newspaper around a year ago. i had a long discussion with a friend of mine who does all his own trading etc. from home and he didn't believe it as he was quite successful. Anyway I played golf with him on my last visit (and of course he talked about stocks,bonds and other boring stuff) but he has lost most of his money now. If you buy a ticket on a low cost carrier dont whinge if you get burnt. If you pay a higher price for a service "generally" you will be ok. I live my life like that and I have been OK. Some guys are really good with their money but most are NOT. Therefore go with the professionals.

[Adam Nams]

Thats interesting. Thanks for the info.

[hekokimushi]

interesting....

Black Swan Capital, HK, despite its name, it is just a broker that collects all fund platforms products, that sells investment linked products to end users and that's it.

if i can put it in this simple analogy, BS Capital as Park-n-shop, where each fund would be an individual shelved item, as a "value" customer... they give you a personal shopping cart with wheels and a shopping assistant providing their "own" advice. Customers (friends that had used them) jump in and out at ParkNShop, are they adequate to your needs?

as a responsible investor, would you rely solely on somebody informing you what is good or not good without some form of analysis? well... that is not for me to comment either. As the end user, we will never get the first hand info... newsletters can inform me what has already happened and forecast what one thinks is going to happen, probability always come into forecasts right? i doubt anyone gave forecast dates for the Lehman Bro.

Back to grocery, why would one prefer to shop at City Super or Market place rather than ParknShop for your grocery? is it because they are cheaper? or is it because their shelved items are "selected" / "filtered". Same with funds... if you pay the extra 1.5-3% for the good platform when it would provide you a return of 10-20%. Ok... let's say home investing, how much fees are involved in buying / selling and the tax involved per transaction whether one makes a profit or loss? a lot less than 3%?

everything financial related item have statistic figures that you can google. CitySuper is well known in it's grocery market in HKG that is not hard to grasp; In the funds and bonds market in Hong Kong, who is the government statistic figure market leader in this field for investment linked products? well.. again if i tell you, it may probably be non-sense... but you can find out yourself if that is something you want to know.

investing to me is another profession, i wish i was proficient in both flying and investing, but i belong to the average joe blo group, whom isn't a home investor.

Hope you will find your CitySuper soon or Happy self-trading :ok:

[Adam Nams]

Can anyone advise me on the paying newsletter sites for good advice?


I have considered trading from home but i feel that to do it with any success requires time, which i don't have much of. As already mentioned, i also have a few friends who do it from home but they find themselves sitting on the computer for hours per day for a few hundred dollars profit.
Has anyone used the subscription newsletters or the paid seminars operating in hk that i have also heard of?

[ETOPS240]

Jesus; some people on here are tying to make investing out to be like roulette!

Yes, there are risks involved, but as an investor (not a trader), common sense applies. Learn how to read financial data, learn a little about technical analysis, and pick companies which have good readings on both counts.

Ultimately, as you would expect, strong companies who are growing, in strong market sectors, with increasing profits and being bought into by good numbers of mutual funds (a/d rating) make for good bets.

Greater risk/reward involves the same technique applied to small cap companies. So, diversify your portfolio to include a good mix, and wait. While your waiting, devise your exit points for each stock.

Trading on a daily basis is a different animal, and requires far more learning in order to not get sheared by the big players.

HKs economy is a very healthy one, which is very well run on the financial side. Get stuck in!

Edited to add: I personally wouldn't bother with any 'products' these brokerages are trying to peddle. All they want is your cash for long periods of time, and are usually commission based on signing you up. If you're happy to pay a premium for a service, ensure you are dealing with the fund house itself. Their commission is usually profit-based. If you have 8+ years to wait, even your HSBC Premier investments will safely bring you in 5% per year.

[FlexibleResponse]

Read and understand all you can on Warren Buffett*...his investment advice is simple, it is free and available on the internet.

Every "investment advice company" either good or bad, is after a % of your money. That is how they pay themselves. And if they lose all your money with a bad call...no worries, another sucker is born every minute and they move on. You are finished...

Trust NOBODY with your money but yourself.

* Warren Edward Buffett is an American business magnate, investor, and philanthropist. He is widely considered the most successful investor of the 20th century. Wikipedia

[Liam Gallagher]

ETOPS240 is an excellent example of why you should never take financial advice from a pilot.

Essentially, investing is a risk/ return trade-off and professional advisors are selling their expertise to distort this trade-off. Whilst not wishing to derail this debate into American Politics (again), the Federal Reserve Interest Rate is seen as the risk-free rate. Meaning, it carries no-risk for a US dollar investment. Currently, the US Fed 5 year is paying approx 0.75% pa. Therefore, anyone who is saying they can "safely" return 5% on a USD investment is talking nonsense, considering that to return 5% to you, they are having to earn 8% to cover their fees.

This is not say that funds do not return greater than the risk-free rate, but to achieve that higher rate, you are taking more risk.

[etrang]

Do NOT give your money to anyone else. Especially someone recommended on an internet message board. Its quite easy to learn how to invest yourself. And steer well clear of "financial advisers" they are just commission based salesmen
who will say anything to get hold of your hard earned $.

[Frogman1484]

My mechanic will not try to sign me up to a 10 year fixing plan with huge penalties! He will also not try to sell me inferior spares just because they pay him more comission!

Every time you go to your hkg broker the guy you were working with has left. The new guy then changes you portfolio kust to generate more comissions for him self. I also dont see my mechanic or plummer doing that!

[hekokimushi]

mechanics have good and bad. advisors too have good and bad. fortunately the mechanic i used had been good too... otherwise i would have to learn and spend time servicing piston engines..

if that fund house's employees are not even stable... how good is the fund house itself? anyways... whatever is more comfortable for you. self "investing" or going with a fund manager. ORSO is generally doing ok as the user is only allowed to manipulate it twice a year. why is it doing ok, coz the emotional bit is taken out of the investment, and a monthly averaging price bid is keeping it on the health side. not able to cash it is how it seems better than the average "home investor". warrant buffet uses diversity and he chooses good investments and never think of selling... that is my understanding of his portfolio under Berkshire H.... e.g. Coca Cola, American Express etc. His son thou, in success, isn't even half of him.

funds statistically only make money at least in a 10 year term period. anyone asking you to switch in and out is sucking you $ up. or the first guy has phucked up the portfolio to begin with... my advisor, even when i was urging down the phone to switch, told me simply... not necessary, don't touch it. :ok:

i wouldn't ask warrant buffet advise for tips about Hong Kong Radar vectors :confused: descent and slow down :ugh: or the best way to reply radar questioning whats max forward speed. :D vice versa

[FlexibleResponse]

Pilots who think they are their own best financial advisors are all around us...still working until age 65 because they need the money.

...and I can name any number of pilots who are still working until age 65 (and some beyond) because their hard-earned money was "lost" or "stolen" off them by financial advisers.

Don't trust ANYBODY with your own money...period.

[KRMQQ]

Well if you knew the Black Swan theory you would not be surprised.

I am not sure how anyone who has even a vague understanding of Nassim Taleb's Black Swan would be stupid enough to name a financial services company after the paradigm.

[hekokimushi]

Well if you knew the Black Swan theory you would not be surprised.

I am not sure how anyone who has even a vague understanding of Nassim Taleb's Black Swan would be stupid enough to name a financial services company after the paradigm.

nice one KRMQQ... you are definately no "regular" Pilot that has wife number 10 asking for divorce living allowance and blame it on a particular bad choice of advisory service. :D

[andreweden]

Having been put onto this forum by one of my Cathay clients and I couldn't agree more with so many of the criticisms and wise practical suggestions. I am not here to to tout for business nor am I here to defend my chosen profession which, for the most part quite frankly, is a disgrace. However, I believe that the biggest misconception is that a financial advisor ("FA") is expected to be some sort of all encompassing all seeing financial wizard like e.g. you wouldn't expect a pilot to have a rating on every ship that has ever taken to the air so why think a FA knows every think about money or investing or foreign exchange or tax planning or wealth creation or a myriad of other related financial matters. A good FA is no more a financial magician than say a good doctor is the panacea for good health. If you are still not understanding my sentiment then imagine this ridiculous scenario of me turning up at Chap Lap Kok with no flight reservation and expecting the airport terminal staff to know where I want to go, for how long, for what purpose and by the way make sure I have good time.

Ludicrous I know but just think about what you are doing here e.g. my expectation of a pilot is to perform a specific role for which i have entrusted him which might be to land me safely in a destination of my choosing and hopefully, if all goes according to plan, in a timely manner (and I wouldn't think about blaming the pilot for factors beyond his control like weather or mechanical delays. In the process of considering finance start from the premilse that if you want to make a small fortune, then best to start with a large one and give it to a FA..........guaraanteed to return a small one. Now you are past go, there are many, many factors, hazards, choices, decisions, changes in circumstances and opprtunities along the way as well as a bit of luck as you role the dice around the Monopoly board of life.

Start by asking yourself a few basic questions like what do you wish to achieve, by when and by wh method. Talk to friends, colleagues and work mates and find out what other folk are doing and if nothing else keep it simple and go and buy some property (coz at least land, aren't making any more of it) if it is wealth creation you are seeking. Wealth presevation is different but always remember that it is easier to earn the money in the first place than keeping it thereafter. If the opinion of a financial professional is felt necessary, then go and seek a professional. Ask around and find out what they have done and for what reason and obtain a personal introduction. Commission hungry salesmen are very good at convincing you that you are in safe and capable hjands because that is what they are good at. It is so easy to work out if your FA is any good by applying some common sense. Does he own property, does he have any of the investments of his own and does he buy into what he is rcommending to you. Did your FA chose his profession as a career option since gradating, what real training and profesional qualifications does he hold and how long as he been around with company he is representing or did he somehow fall into jfinancial services sales after selling carpets previuosly. Ask and verify. It should become abudantly clear sort of person you are dealing with. If he doesn't have basic integrity, then the duping ensues. And before anyone asks, we only work by referal so go find a client of ours and then you will find us. No ability to go chasing those that don't have an idea of how we work or what we are capable of. Too many children I am afraid. There endeth the lesson. Good luck with your research, safe travels and happy landings.