Tractor or Pusher?

[Terry Murphy]

Guys, I'm doing a book on early aviation and found this discription in Aerofiles:

"Kimball Tailless 1911 = Similar to New York #1 except with two chain-driven tractor propellers. Farman-type trailing-edge ailerons; span: 32'0" length: c.26'0"."

Q: Doesn't this photo look like it's a two-prop, pusher biplane? The propellers seem to be missing, but clearly they appear to be behind the pilot and engine, which should make it a pusher.


http://www.aerofiles.com/kimball-1911.jpg (http://images.google.com/url?sa=i&rct=j&q=Kimball+Tailless+biplane+1911&source=images&cd=&cad=rja&docid=KtkVI9Yof_eXJM&tbnid=8igxfobT7zGrtM:&ved=&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.aerofiles.com%2F_k.html&ei=UvAsUcngFcGZqAH5moGoAg&bvm=bv.42965579,d.aWM&psig=AFQjCNFFxzmYUHA2iovol5H_qcmHrshc9Q&ust=1361986002835104)

[Tankengine]

Looking at the leading edge of the wing and the fact it is a "tail-less" type then yes it looks like pusher props.

[Rory57]

Are the propellors missing? Looks to me as if they are turning, I seem to see an arc just above they chap on the right, by his straw hat. Turning slowly though, judging by the sprocket holes still being visible. I wonder what shutter-speeds were used in those days?

"Grahame Wight" is visible on the hanger. Anyone know where that would be?

[India Four Two]

Rory,

Yes, I noticed Grahame White on the hangar as well and wondered if it might be the UK, but the clothes are clearly American and I discovered that Claude Grahame-White was in the US at the right period, demonstrating his Farman, including landing in front of the White House. You wouldn't want to try that today. :sad:

I suspect it might be College Park Airport:

...the world's oldest continuously operated airport.College Park Airport - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/College_Park_Airport)

[India Four Two]

Further research has discovered the same photo on Flickr W.R. Kimball & aeroplane (LOC) | Flickr - Photo Sharing! (http://www.flickr.com/photos/library_of_congress/2162697227/)

with the following comment attached:

Kimball was one of the first to rent a hangar at Belmont Park (New York) racetrack in 1911. Kimball tested this aircraft at Belmont Park during June and July 1911. This photo was taken at Belmont Park. The names of the aviator's from the October 1910 International Airmeet are still visible on the hangars.

[Fareastdriver]

Could they have been described as 'tractor' propellors because they were ahead of the chains driving them.

[Terry Murphy]

I thought it might be this aircraft, but it's not tailless, and I don't think it ever made its way to Belmont Park.

http://www.massaerohistory.org/Burgess/Burgess-C-06.gif
Model C
Burgess Company and Curtis Model C –pusher biplane with two central skids or a two wheel undercarriage. Number built- 1 (Oct/Nov 1910)
Delivered and flown in December 1910 at Moulton’s Farm, Ipswich by William M. Hilliard. Designed for student flyers and priced at $4,500.
Single place, Clement-Bayard 2cyl. 30hp., water-cooled engine with Bosch magneto and a Burgess two bladed 6’6”propeller (1250rpm) Equipped with two wheels & skids. Span: 32’ Wing Area: 290sq.ft., Length: 31’ Chord: 4’8” tail span 6’ 30” Weight: 400-450lbs. Equipped with interplane ailerons and Greely Curtis deflectors.

[DaveReidUK]

At the risk of stating the obvious, the aircraft is described as the "Kimball Tailless", so clearly the structure incorporating the skids that can be seen outboard of the two inner wheels (presumably also supporting an elevator for pitch control) must be forward of the wing, not aft.

Ergo the chain-driven props that can be seen must be aft of the wing, and therefore pushers.

[Fareastdriver]

I woud agree with that. You can see the drive shafts behind the chainwheels.

[PAXboy]

Terry Murphy
Designed for student flyers and priced at $4,500.Using two different historical inflation calculators and averaging the results. In 2012 that would be (approx) £435,200. :uhoh:

Try adding that to your student loan!

[India Four Two]

Mr. Kimball certainly had some unique ideas about aircraft - a helicopter with 20 small rotors and a biplane with 8 propellers!

Wilbur R. Kimball (http://earlyaviators.com/ekimball.htm)