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hoss
25th Feb 2013, 10:25
A sad day in cyberspace as we see the closure of our pilot website.

Thank you to the admin for a good site, I used to enjoy visiting.

Regards, hoss

Capn Bloggs
25th Feb 2013, 10:30
More time on Prune then, Hoss? :D :}

CTOT ON
25th Feb 2013, 10:39
Sad to see a great forum that has helped me get through the sim/EPs on more than one occasion.

I like many others im sure would have been more than help to contribute if it was a financial burden.

Thanks to those who ran the site. I hope we see it back one day!

GAFA
25th Feb 2013, 10:52
Agree, site was a great help for SIM and other ground training and a good place to have robust discussion regarding the EBA.

Shame there was no notice of the impending closure as I'm sure most pilots would have chipped in a few dollars to keep it going.

A big thank you to the admin team.

slice
25th Feb 2013, 12:02
For those in the AFAP there are the Vflight forums and assume that VIPA have something similar. Could we ask the Pprune admins for a VA specific forum ? It would get a fair bit of traffic I think.

Keg
25th Feb 2013, 12:14
I may have a solution- for nil money. Send me a PM and I can outline some thoughts. I'm on day 3 of a 4 day trip so may not get back to any PMs until Wednesday.

tail wheel
25th Feb 2013, 18:37
Could we ask the PPRuNe admins for a VA specific forum ? It would get a fair bit of traffic I think.

Actually, airline specific forums have not been very successful and a number have been close or removed. You could ask but unless you could demonstrate strong demand, I doubt it would be granted.

The same could be argued for Qantas, Air New Zealand, Air Niugini, Singapore Airlines et al but the value of PPRuNe is in it's public forums open to debate by all; there is little value to the PPRuNe community in closed shop airline specific forums.

Sand dune Sam
25th Feb 2013, 19:26
Why don't you Virgin blokes get onto John Smith at Qcrewroom and use that... Im sure the QF blokes wouldn't mind..:}

Servo
25th Feb 2013, 20:23
Sent a message to PPrune Admin/Owner asking for specific forum, but yet no reply.

Not only a financial burden but also a legal burden on site owner. Plus the time needed to set up and maintain.

I have a website domain and email system, but feel that it would all be too hard especially with trips etc.

Was a great site. A lot of great info, as well as not so great :oh:

Tidbinbilla
25th Feb 2013, 22:50
Why don't you Virgin blokes get onto John Smith at Qcrewroom and use that... Im sure the QF blokes wouldn't mind..http://images.ibsrv.net/ibsrv/res/src:www.pprune.org/get/images/smilies/badteeth.gif

There is already a Virgin forum on Qrewroom. However, I don't know what the owner's policy is regarding privacy from other pilot groups (as per the other 'private' forums, such as mainline and Qlink, contained within).

Keg
25th Feb 2013, 23:11
I have access to a forum. Creating a private forum for DJ crew is a doddle. I'd need to check with the forum owner but don't think he'd have too many issues.

Keg
26th Feb 2013, 01:19
Lol. No. Definitely not that one.

ejectx3
26th Feb 2013, 03:01
And while we're at it can we get "oh captain my captain" back up too?

:p

Kenny
26th Feb 2013, 03:22
I wonder why there was no notice. Given that there were well in excess of 100 votes on the EBA poll, I'm sure most of us would have donated a few $$ to keep it running for a while, at least.

sprucegoose
26th Feb 2013, 05:02
Man.... i haven't been here for ages. Is it at all possible there were forces at work that saw us shut down on such short notice?

Biatch
26th Feb 2013, 09:35
Large bummer....

Maybe a few posts were taken the wrong way towards a few of the management pilots who were on there??

Although the msg really only points twords a $$$ reason...

Pprune it is!!

Dare I mention a dirty word at this point..... INTERGRATION!!!! (Cue the dramatic music...)

Capn Bloggs
26th Feb 2013, 10:25
Dare I mention a dirty word at this point..... INTERGRATION!!!! (Cue the dramatic music...)
Cue a dictionary, more likely! :}

Information Charles
26th Feb 2013, 10:31
I don't think any of the vbpilot website users expected an individual to take it upon themselves to fund - plenty would chip in.

The timing and abruptness of it is rather interesting though. :confused::hmm:

yigy2
26th Feb 2013, 22:12
VAA EBA is now available on the intranet on the PBS/Rosters page

Hugh Jarse
27th Feb 2013, 01:02
Yeah, thanks VBAdmin (whoever you are) for having put the site there in the first place. And thanks to everyone on BOTH sides of the table for participating. Apart from the occasional bickering, there was a good flow of information happening.

N.B. I would have been happy to kick the can as well to help keep it open. :ok:

Servo
27th Feb 2013, 02:33
Although relatively expensive long term, I think it may have had more to do with time and potential legal problems.

My understanding is that VBAdmin, is no longer with VB(VA) and has not been for a while.

Someone mentioned that there was "targeting" of management pilots with certain post's.

I did not see any post that was defamatory (libel) toward any individual, management or not. Although there was a warning from an Admin, about some posts and if requested user details would be provided to the necessary authorities.

I did receive a very well written explanation from PPRUNE Admin/Owner in regards to having a separate company forum for VA and understand the reasons not to.

There are too many legal issues and ongoing political correctness nowadays for it to be effective anyway. If you are not upsetting fellow crew, there is a risk the company may be watching, enough of that without a forum.

As I said I have a domain, site etc but...

Snakecharma
27th Feb 2013, 03:05
The management pilots were just as surprised when it closed.

They had nothing to do with the closure, and I have it on good authority that while a bit annoyed with some comments it went no further

Servo
27th Feb 2013, 03:26
Snakecharma,

I did not mean for my post to sound like it was because of management pilots that the forum was closed, far from it.

I think everyone appreciated having management pilots be part of the discussion(s) in their own little way.

There was a lot of info on the forum, but at the same time not a lot. Some posts were not received very well, maybe it was sometimes too close to the truth? Others were downright trolling.

Some very robust discussion though on many topics, with some excellent points of view from all levels of crew/position. A great way to share information or highlight information of interest.

Some good information was shared. I believe that it should be a private forum, well away from the general public and other interests.

Levelflt
28th Feb 2013, 23:07
VB pilots should be up and running again in a few days.

Warped Wings
1st Mar 2013, 02:24
Perhaps it would be a good time to restructure the pilot's website.

1. Change it to "VA Pilots"

2. Make all subscribing VA pilots share the financial and legal burden of the website. Make users contribute to the running costs via an annual subscription fee.

3. Make users post under their own name - individuals take responsibility for their posts and not the website. Discussions would still be robust!

This website has been a fantastic forum for discussion and shared information regardless of which camp you are in (VIPA/AFAP). It remains the best medium for more than a thousand pilots, spread throughout the the land to think about VA issues as a group.

fmcinop
1st Mar 2013, 02:47
Some poster are extremely bold when they post under an alias. They happily cast accusations and spread Non factual rumors most of which they would not do under their own name.

Most pilots on the VB site know me and I don't try and hide my identity.

I think the use of real names is long overdue.

We will wait and see when it is re-launched..

The Baron
1st Mar 2013, 02:59
I can fully appreciate the amount of time and effort that the remaining administrator put into the site, while flying the line and jumping through the usual hoops. He will have lots of better things to do on his days off now.
Oh, and by the way, it's still no...

Servo
1st Mar 2013, 03:29
I understand the use of real names, in part I agree. But what if there is a disagreement online and it continues into the real world??

There is a LOT that needs to be said, people are afraid of management/company and losing there job, even if they are right............ sounds familiar :*

GAFA
1st Mar 2013, 04:04
Good to hear it's coming back.

The main issue I see with using real names is people will be less inclined to share information regarding sims and the like, as the management/ checkies will be able to identify those providing tips/advise.

Captain Peacock
1st Mar 2013, 04:38
Why don't you VA guys get onto the admin of simsonQ? (http://www.simsonq.com)

The site is used by the QF guys where all simulator sessions are discussed anonymously. With some handy hints in there as well. :ok:

I'm sure the admin would host a VA section. :)

Open Wemac
1st Mar 2013, 18:17
Could I suggest that the new version of the vbpilots have a mobile phone/tablet friendly interface? I'm on another non aviation forum site which has a standard site, but when accessed via mobile phone, has a sleek easy to view mobile platform. It uses the vBulletin forum code.
As all I seem to get is 4 day trips, it would make viewing a whole lot easier!

GAFA
1st Mar 2013, 21:00
VB pilots is back, however running under new name Virginetics • Index page (http://www.virginetics.com/forum/)

All current logins work.

virginexcess
3rd Mar 2013, 01:36
Be advised that Virginetics is owned and run by a VAI management pilot

Servo
3rd Mar 2013, 03:58
I wonder for those that were "vocal" if there identity is going to be kept secret :rolleyes:

Be very interesting. Thanks for the info.

Cheers.

Open Descent
3rd Mar 2013, 04:38
Who cares if it's run by a management pilot?

Red Jet
3rd Mar 2013, 06:26
This "management pilot" is a top bloke and doing this out of the kindness of his heart, as he did for us at VAI for a long time. His integrity is beyond question and he would NEVER compromise your identity as long as you play by the rules.

Anthill
3rd Mar 2013, 06:50
I totally concur with what Red Jet said. :ok:

virginexcess
3rd Mar 2013, 08:01
I make no comment one way or the other, i just think it is worth knowing that it is being run by management and he will have access to everyones identity.

Unfortunately I wont be contributing. Play at your own risk.

On the plus side it may help keep the tone of the forums civil, but most likley it will only result in the sycophants posting and the dissenters abstaining, which results in an unbalanced view.

Red Jet
3rd Mar 2013, 10:09
being run by management
Positively 100% untrue! It is operated by a fellow pilot, who happen to hold a management pilot position in the company. Big difference!

I wont be contributing
Your loss - we'll try to continue the discourse in your absence.

Play at your own risk
You should never say say anything on an online forum, that you couldn't say in a crowded room anyhow.

most likley it will only result in the sycophants posting and the dissenters abstaining, which results in an unbalanced view
That was not our experience at the original Virginetics. Robust discussions occurred on occasion, even though all postings was under your own name. At the "new" forum you'll retain your original username, which could be as secret (or not) as you set it out to be.

I'm just glad the forum is up, and hope it'll be used by all VA pilots. After all, we're one big happy family now, right.......;)

fmcinop
3rd Mar 2013, 10:16
You complete fools.

The so called management pilot that some are questioning, is one of the nicest blokes you will ever meet. He is certainly not one to dig up dirt and use it to screw you.

He is honest, trustworthy and I am sure there are more than enough people around who will vouch for his integrity..

As usual, people with no idea sprouting off about things they quite obviously have no idea about.

He would have gone out of his way to and given up his own precious time to get things back up and running and this is the thanks he gets.

virginexcess
3rd Mar 2013, 10:46
This "management pilot" is a top bloke and doing this out of the kindness of his heart, as he did for us at VAI for a long time. His integrity is beyond question and he would NEVER compromise your identity as long as you play by the rules.


I see the sycophants are out already :}

For the record I hope It does turn out to be a productive forum.

Red Jet
3rd Mar 2013, 18:56
For the record I hope It does turn out to be a productive forum
Please don't forget that the quote below is also on the 'record':
I wont be contributing
We'll take that as a promise!

fmcinop
3rd Mar 2013, 20:02
The domain is not owned by a management pilot anyway. It's owned by a 737 F/O who helped set up the original Virginetics when he was a CRFO on the 777.

The Baron
7th Mar 2013, 09:35
The general consensus of the people I've talked to is that most consider Virginetics may be 'dodgy', especially so close to an EBA vote. Just an observation. Maybe if whoever owns it, administers it, and moderates it would declare their interests, the pilot body could form an educated opinion.

virginexcess
7th Mar 2013, 21:22
I think that is the nub of the matter. As I understand it, when VB pilots was set up, everyone knew who was running it. With Virginetics it is not so clear.

Given the sensitive information being held, of whcih at least one management pilot appears to have access, disclosure would be the right thing to do.

Having a well supported forum is a huge positive for the pilot group, and that will only happen if contributors feel free from retribution.

That said, i also agree that anonymity should not be used to say things you dont have the courage to say in person, but unfortunately the world is full of people like that.

union
9th Mar 2013, 09:03
the vbpilot website was run by management and it was shot down in order to get the second EBA up.

Dehavillanddriver
10th Mar 2013, 04:55
interesting first post - pity it is crap

porch monkey
10th Mar 2013, 05:21
So, how do we come to that conclusion? Since all the same info is still available. Another kno b head:ugh:

union
16th Mar 2013, 04:35
A new email came out during the weekend regarding the virgin pilot website. The email states that the virgin pilots website is not run by management.

Hmmmm... wonder why they had to include that statement...

Obviously, what everybody was saying was true and now they have no other alternative but to deny the fact that management pilots are hosting the webpage.

Take my advise fellow Virgin Crew and only use PPRuNe!!! :ok:

Visual Landing
16th Mar 2013, 04:40
Obviously they had to dispel the rumours generated by people(?) such as yourself.

union
16th Mar 2013, 05:26
If this is rumurs why do they care to dispel them???

BE CAREFUL GUYS use Virgin web only for sim notes!!!:ok:

Vorsicht
17th Mar 2013, 22:15
I am concerned that my details were passed onto a 3rd party without any request for permission. Clearly the new moderator (whoever it is) has access to all that information because i have received an email from them.

In my view it would be proper for the new owner/moderator to declare themselves so that there is an element of legitimacy to the site.

I notice that in the email i received the owners described themselves as "we".

My information that one of the "we" is likely to be a management pilot. That does not mean it is being run as management tool, it just creates uncertainty.

Given the likelihood of it being who i think it is, I would suggest 'clueless enthusiasm' being the motivator rather than anything sinister. However it would take a strongly principled individual with a good amount of integrity to ignore knowledge obtained via the website if it overlapped with Management objectives.

My experience is that Virgin Flight Ops does not have a culture of strong principles or integrity. In fact, i believe there is a court case running at present that reflects exactly that.

Capt Basil Brush
18th Mar 2013, 05:33
Management knew the identities behind all the 'nicknames' on the vbpilots website anyway. A current management pilot was a former moderator.

I have not heard of anyone getting a phone call from management saying "we are not happy with what you are saying, shut the [email protected]!ck up or else".

However they would not have been happy with the 'darker' side of the EBA being pointed out to all those who may not have read it closely, or understood it properly.

They attempted to rush the last one through before the Skywest buy-out and Tiger shareholding (and huge management bonuses) were announced. The full ramifications of this wont be known now until after this EBA goes through, as there are new clauses in there that facilitate "Major Changes" to the companies advantage.

By the end of the agreement an Ejet Line Capt (around 100 seats) will be on 185K base. I am not saying that is being overpaid, however a bean-counter or CEO with other (cheaper) crewing options (Skywest) will! Can someone enlighten us to what a Skywest F100 (ageing aircraft, around 100 seats) Line Captain earns??

Meanwhile in the agreement, there is nothing (ok, maybe minimal) in it for 737 pilots - who are the bulk of the existing crew who have not had a payrise since 2011. Not even CPI last year due to management bully-boy tactics, and not bargaining in good faith. A330 and Ejet are in line for good payrises, which is fair enough.

Sorry for the thread drift. I just realised all this should be on a different thread, but Iam not going to re-type it.

Back to the vbpilots website .............

Servo
18th Mar 2013, 06:34
It is interesting that information was given to a third party. Do they have the right to provide particulars to another web host?

When you sign up to a forum, do you sign away your rights to anonymity to the web host, if the information posted is not defamatory or libel?

If "any" moderator or the web host for example is not impartial and they then "leak" a persons identity, which is in anyway used against that person, would you have any recourse?

Blacklists, Court action, what's next nepostism, oh wait ........ :(

Vorsicht
18th Mar 2013, 07:57
That's exactly my point servo.

Obviously the original owners were known and trusted and you'd have to say must have conducted themselves well because there seems to be no complaints.

Now however we have no idea who is running it and we'll have to wait and see if there is any repercussions for negative posts.

Either way, I've relegated myself to observer rather than contributor.

BPA
18th Mar 2013, 08:49
Hasn't the same occurred here? Didn't Danny sell Pprune to a company, who now have all our details.

flyby
23rd Mar 2013, 11:32
Storm in a tea cup , Fellow 737 F/O running the site .

Took up the VB Pilots site info when it was closed down and restarted
under different name, keeping the comms open between the pilot group.

A lot of good info was to be lost, glad we didn't.

Trust what you want I know the guy and don't have a problem
posting there.