Naples/EFT are they recognised for CPL or not?

[E-Fizz]

Hello all
Looking at EFT's website and having had info from Naples in Florida posted to me I'm slightly confused! If you check the CAA website under schools authorised to supply JAR-FCL 1 CPL (A) training, neither of them appear on the list. But they both claim to have authorisation. I'm not disputing this but am trying to find out the definitive answer to all this JAAJARFAAQAA CR*P!

If a FTO has CAA authority to provide services is it recognised by JAA i.e. throughout the member states. Or in the UK alone? If a FTO has JAA authority is the training it provides recognised by the CAA even though that company name doesn't appear on their list of authorised providers (as is the case with Naples and EFT regarding the CPL - http://www.srg.caa.co.uk/documents/srg_fcl_approvedftos.pdf).

OR, has the CAA just failed to update it's website?!!! God knows, but I'm getting hacked off with all this bureaucracy - it's confusing the hell out of me! Commiserations to you guys that caught on the cusp of the changeover ... ...

[EFT.CFI]

If you have any doubt as to the approval status of a school, then give the CAA a call.
They will be more than happy to advise you of FTO status.
EFT is approved for CPL/IR/FI(R) FTO#252, the CAA website has not be updated with this info.
Regards Ben Wood

[FatFlyer]

I did some training at Naples last year, I thought that they were very good and professional, however, the instructors are all FAA qualified, there were no JAA/CAA instructors there, the examiner came in to examine students, sign paperwork etc.

I don't know how the CAA allow them to train for JAA licences.

I would certainly recommend them for PPL but unless they have had major changes recently, I doubt they would have the experience to train for the JAA CPL

[rolling circle]

The list of approved schools on the CAA website is updated monthly, sometimes fortnightly. If these schools have been approved recently, they won't appear. However, CAP 682 says that "An organisation may not commence, conduct or continue training courses requiring approval unless it has the relevant approval documentation in its posession", so the answer is - ask to see the approval certificate. If the organisation cannot or will not present it, go somewhere else.

JAR-FCL 1 does not allow training to take place outside JAA member states except in the case of the integrated ATPL course when it is conducted by an organisation whose registered office and main place of business is located within a JAA member state. The UK CAA has chosen to ignore this requirement and is 'approving' organisations who do not qualify under the terms of JAR-FCL 1. Threats have been made by other member states that they will refuse to recognise JAA licences issued by the UK CAA as a result of training provided by such organisations.

[E-Fizz]

Thanks for the answers guys. That one is really intesting Rolling Circle, I wasn't aware of the situation... Its incredible that under the JAA a member state can choose to ignore certain lines in the JAR mandate.

I have to say though, now I am really confused! In the case of EFT, if I understand correctly - they have JAA FTO #252 approval and advertise JAA CPL modular training on their website. But from what I have read the JAR-FCL 1 regs shouldn't allow them to provide CPL modular training because EFT are not based in a JAA member state?! I'm sure the guys at EFT will argue their point vehemently, but it does seems like this is a bureacratic nightmare open to interperation! (Well, I suppose this is what Europe is all about... !!!) But seriously, come the day that I am ready to spend the dosh I will be very paranoid handing it over under the rules of a situation that is totally unclear.

[Bear Cub]

E. I can tell you - without fear of contradiction - that Naples are NOT CPL "approved".

EFT - dunno.

[CreepMark]

E-fizz,
Don't fanny around any longer ....get on with your training. Its great to see that you are researching before paying, wise move but the answer is in your own hands....if you are unsure of an establishment, ring and ask or better still, visit. If they want your $25000, they'll fax you proof of approval.

Now, as stated above, E.F.T is fully approved as stated by EFT.CFI's posting earlier. Ben Wood is 'obviously' the CFI and he is not going to put his name in writing and lie is he?? I have just finished IMC/Night and part MULTI there......fabulous school, xcellent aircraft, great availabilty and pleasant instructors. Recommendation should be highly accepted on your 'decision processes' when deciding on what school to use.

Finally, my way of thinking regards the CAA and approving of non-member jaa union schools, i can't see them dismissing $25000 worth of flying and lets say 150 hours can they?? There must be a legal case for us all if they did??

If you want to e-mail me re personal experiences at eft, then do! Good Luck.

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Climb Aboard, lets have some fun.

[E-Fizz]

CreepMark

If you read any of my previous posts you'll see I'm 'fannying around' trying to get my Class 1, there are issues with it that I'm not going to discuss here. But, once I have it I'll be off like a shot.

As far as dismissing $25,000 worth of flying and 150 hours, IF the CAA or any JAA state wished to dismiss it they're well within their rights to do so. It's their law. Agreed, they PROBABLY wont but still... Anyhow, I don't like the situation, I am uneasy with it, it's my money and that's that!

Oh, and as far as personal experiences with EFT go I already have some: I emailed them aksing for info, waited ages for a reply that when it came said I would receive an email info pack later on that day and haven't heard anything from them since.

I am pleased that you're enjoying your training and wish you every success for the future. But before I spend my money I will continue to explore this bureacratic minefield doing my utmost to make sure that my position is as well covered as it possibly can be.

[CreepMark]

e-fizz,

a little blunt I feel....just trying to help. Next time you place a posting I shall disregard it totally. Class 1 medical pending eh?...... anything to do with your mental state?

Good luck anyway. Appologies for EFT's slow response....suprising though it is.


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Climb Aboard, lets have some fun.

[TooHotToFly]

Creepmark - why are you apologising for EFT's slow (or non-existent) response. Anyone would think you worked for them :)

[CreepMark]

ehh, as stated earlier, i have flown with them..(imc/night and twin) but do not work for them.

Its amazing how everyone wants to stick their oar in when the idea of this forum is to help aspiring pilots.

EFT are a good school.Take 'em or leave 'em. its a free country.

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Climb Aboard, lets have some fun.

[E-Fizz]

CreepMark

Blunt? I'm not rising to this but I am very insulted by what you've said. My Class 1 medical issue isn't one of a mental state but it is neurologically related in the physiological sense. Your remarks have been noted.

[TooHotToFly]

CM - note the smilies and lighten up.

[CreepMark]

e-fizz / 2hot2fly,

Ok Ok, I am sorry for peeing either off you off. Go back and read my first posting. It was purely information / experience based with my point of view on the caa / jaa situation. Ok, i said stop fannying around, but, i also said that the research e-fizz was doing was good and wished him luck.

Come on cut me some slack.

E-fizz, i retract the comment about the medical situation and wish you, (again) all the luck in the world with this, BUT, you did choose to bite my head off over what i thought was going to be a generally helpful posting......i even said e-mail me ?!!

[Jack Frost]

That's good boys and girls.... play nicely together and there'll be no more tears.

[E-Fizz]

Thanks for all the replies on this thread - I look forward to the next one!
Have a good weekend all :)