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rgbrock1
20th Feb 2013, 15:19
Don't know if anyone read the reports about the recent iteration of cyberwarfare being waged by a certain element of the Chinese military but it is ominous. It is a known fact that there is a branch of the People's Liberation Army whose sole purpose in life is to wage unrestricted and asymmetrical cyberwarfare.

I have also recently read the latest tome by Tom Clancy: 'Threat Vector' which delves quite nicely into this modern-age style of warfare.

Exciting on one hand and foreboding on the other.

tony draper
20th Feb 2013, 15:48
Item on the news re this last night stated they could switch off the water supply or electrical distribution systems ect,this would be simple to overcome, disconnect all the utilities from the bloody internet and have a bloke with a phone on his desk in control of the switches levers and valves as they had and that worked perfectly well for the previous half century.
:rolleyes:

rgbrock1
20th Feb 2013, 15:57
Switching off water supplies or electric grids would be bad enough, Tony, but imagine if they were able to switch off most of the "eyes in the sky"? :eek::eek::eek:

racedo
20th Feb 2013, 16:30
Wow its only the Chinese engaged in Cyber warfare and that donut in Cheltenham and elsewhere isn't doing something similar.

If its Chinese its warfare, if its Uk its looking after our national interests.

pigboat
20th Feb 2013, 16:53
And for something maybe related...Spearphishing. (http://www.nbcnews.com/technology/technolog/spearphishing-dirty-email-trick-favored-nastiest-hackers-1C8422406)

Um... lifting...
20th Feb 2013, 16:57
a bloke with a phone on his desk in control of the switches levers and valves as they had and that worked perfectly well for the previous half century

Doubtless Captain Draper has made use of this bit of advanced analog proto-human factors technology a time or three. All smartly assembled using honest stone & brass, steel & glass.

http://www.zuschlogin.com/content/blogimages/39/PAN031c.jpg

SpringHeeledJack
20th Feb 2013, 17:45
Apparently there have been concerns that a large Chinese firm starting with an 'H' really belongs to the Chinese military and is/has been used to glean information from unsuspecting users of it's equipment :uhoh:



SHJ

racedo
20th Feb 2013, 17:48
Apparently there have been concerns that a large Chinese firm starting with an 'H' really belongs to the Chinese military and is/has been used to glean information from unsuspecting users of it's equipment

Not of course to be confused with FaceBrook or Microsoft.............

con-pilot
20th Feb 2013, 17:54
Not of course to be confused with FaceBrook or Microsoft.............

Wow, they are owned by the Chinese Military, who knew.

rgbrock1
20th Feb 2013, 18:02
You didn't know that, con? Shame on you. I mean, just look at Bill Gates. He's obviously Chinese no? :}:}:}

SpringHeeledJack
20th Feb 2013, 18:23
My post was concerning a hardware manufacturer/supplier. If 'we' are silly enough to open the curtains to our lives on social media sites, well that's another kettle of fish :8


SHJ

dead_pan
20th Feb 2013, 18:27
Common knowledge I believe. There was an article in the Brit press earlier this week to this effect, however our glorious leader played it down as he didn't want it harming our trade relations.

A chum whose a partner in one of the big four accounting firms went to Shanghai last year on business. He was issued with a brand new phone and laptop just for the trip, such is the firm's concern. Not sure what happened to them on his return - probably flogged off on eB.

On the subject on Howay phones, apparently they're falling out of favour in the UK. I wonder if this may be in part the reason why. Or maybe its just because they're [email protected]

I'll probably now be taken aside to that little room with the dripping tap the next time I travel to China...

racedo
20th Feb 2013, 20:08
Wow, they are owned by the Chinese Military, who knew.

Owning is so second rate...

Why own when company allows "interested parties" completely free access to whatever they want all in the name of "national security".

500N
20th Feb 2013, 20:15
"Apparently there have been concerns that a large Chinese firm starting with an 'H' really belongs to the Chinese military and is/has been used to glean information from unsuspecting users of it's equipment http://images.ibsrv.net/ibsrv/res/src:www.pprune.org/get/images/smilies/worry.gif"


Tha same one that was banned from supplying equipment
for Australia's Internet cabling network :O

con-pilot
20th Feb 2013, 20:15
Why own when company allows "interested parties" completely free access to whatever they want all in the name of "national security".

Yeah, well I have to admit the changes made and allowed by Obama certainly has done that. Rather funny as he is supposedly the liberal President in US history.

I guess this shows that not only are progressive, so called liberal Democrats not anti-big brother, they are trying their best to become Big Brother.

Scary thing is, they seem to be accomplishing it.

dead_pan
20th Feb 2013, 20:17
Here we go again...

racedo
20th Feb 2013, 20:23
Yeah, well I have to admit the changes made and allowed by Obama certainly has done that. Rather funny as he is supposedly the liberal President in US history.

I guess this shows that not only are progressive, so called liberal Democrats not anti-big brother, they are trying their best to become Big Brother.

Scary thing is, they seem to be accomplishing it.

People wondered how supposed civilised countries were taken in, in the past.

Me...............have never wondered.

Weak politicians, weak media, weak leader with power delusion.......................all ends up with same result .

rgbrock1
21st Feb 2013, 12:28
racedo wrote:

Weak politicians, weak media, weak leader with power delusion.......................all ends up with same result .

You forgot one part of the equation: a dumbed-down and placid populace.

Sallyann1234
21st Feb 2013, 13:38
Well the rumours haven't stopped BT buying vast quantities of their equipment for the UK network. And I have 3G USB dongles for two different networks, both made by them.

Of course we used to have independent UK electronics manufacturers who could have supplied the kit if they were still around - Marconi, Plessey, Decca, Racal, Ferranti etc. None existing now as network equipment providers.

rgbrock1
21st Feb 2013, 13:44
Sallyann:

Chickens.... home.... roost.

radeng
21st Feb 2013, 14:04
Sallyann,

I don't think even the names exist, except for the 'new' Plessey Semiconductors. the original one was the company I joined 34 years ago last week....

They are all now either BAe Systems or Thales.

Sallyann1234
21st Feb 2013, 14:18
Yes radeng.
I originally wrote than none of them now existed, but modified that in view of Plessey Semiconductors' continued operation.
You will of course be aware that the Marconi factory site is now derelict and its original offices have been vandalised. That's how we treat our great engineering companies.

fitliker
21st Feb 2013, 14:32
Those who were in favour of Globalization are now realizing that they will not be the masters of that global business structure for long.
Those who own the means of production.............:}:}


A man with nothing, has nothing to worry about.

ExXB
21st Feb 2013, 14:37
Now, if the real black-hats are very good, they would make it appear that the Chinese Military was doing the snooping/stealing.

Just saying ....

I blame the Elbonians

fitliker
21st Feb 2013, 14:54
The Chinese are victims of the Marxist doctrines.They where told by Mao and his friends that all capitalists were criminals,so now that they are capitalists it is only natural that they should steal and then lie about it :}:}

airship
21st Feb 2013, 15:51
There's a very good reason why Microsoft (in particular, but not exclusively), throughout all the decades they've been considered as "Number 1" supplier in their various fields, have had to issue (10's of) thousands of "security updates" concerning flaws in their products...

The "very good reason" being that (leaving aside for a moment their negligence / incompetences / commercial aspects etc.), this situation has well-served all our mostly Western security (spy) agencies, whether the NSA / CIA / MI5-6 / GCHQ etc. Using these in-built design flaws etc. means that they've always been able to find a "back-door" to sensitive information in most case, without having to go through all the bother of obtaining court orders etc. Of course, none of the information gathered this way could ever be produced as evidence in any normal court, hence all the drones and unlawful killings we hear of these days (so far as terrorists go)...?

The Chinese (and why not Israelis, N. Koreans etc.) are merely nowadays just "catching up", having never really understood the concept of "law abidence" - what is permitted, what is not; separation of spy activities and intelligence gathering agencies from other more normal governmental (legal) activities etc.

It would literally amaze me if there was any single hardware / software product commercially-available out there today, which had not been purposely-designed with in-built "back-doors" or whatever "unintentional flaws"...

And I don't believe I'm especially paranoid... :uhoh:

rgbrock1
21st Feb 2013, 15:58
airship wrote:

It would literally amaze me if there was any single hardware / software product commercially-available out there today, which had not been purposely-designed with in-built "back-doors" or whatever "unintentional flaws"..

Ever hear of Linux? Considering that most Linux distributions are created by the world-wide open source community, or "normal" people at large, I seriously doubt there are any "purposely-designed with in-built back-doors" in most Linux distros. Which is probably one of many reasons why Linux is not the target of hackers.

airship
21st Feb 2013, 16:12
The reason why Linux may not be the usual target of "hackers" may simply be because Linux OS on most home / business PCs still a very tiny part of the overall park. So far as your comment: ...are created by the world-wide open source community, or "normal" people at large and therefore being "clean" is concerned...

YEAH, you must be 100% right, 'cause they're doshing out all this free software and not charging for it. And why they spend all the time necessary and selflessly, ensuring there are no flaws in their coding...?! Ever heard of "you get what you pay for?" :zzz:

rgbrock1
21st Feb 2013, 16:55
Yes, you get what you pay for. I run Linux on my workstation here at work. I can do everything that my Windows colleagues can do, bar nothing.

I think you should also note that there are very many businesses who run Linux/Unix as servers. The installed based of business Linux servers is large and getting larger with each year.

There is a reason for this and not just monetary ones.

racedo
21st Feb 2013, 17:45
You forgot one part of the equation: a dumbed-down and placid populace.

Wasn't that way in 1933...........

racedo
21st Feb 2013, 17:47
And I don't believe I'm especially paranoid.

Airship

How dare you..............

Its almost as if you are saying that they could have been lying.....

Why that nice Mr Gates has been wanting to send me a cheque for $10,000 like forever.

Sallyann1234
21st Feb 2013, 18:31
.. and his staff kindly rang me up this morning because they discovered a problem with my computer. They are fixing it as I

RatherBeFlying
21st Feb 2013, 22:15
The NY Times reported that the Chinese have a dictionary of hashed passwords -- and obviously they have a way to access the password hash file:uhoh:

Generating such a directory takes a government agency sized bunch of computing power.

The Chinese may not be the only government agencies to have done this. It's just that they are less afraid to show their hand.

I anticipate another security fix from Microsoft so that passwords are not hashed exactly the same in every Microsoft system. Unfortunately every user will then have to choose a new password.

As for your banking, on IBM systems each bank has its own highly protected key for generating password hashes.

racedo
21st Feb 2013, 22:22
As for your banking, on IBM systems each bank has its own highly protected key for generating password hashes.

Yup until all account details get left on a cheap laptop with no encryption.

Carry0nLuggage
21st Feb 2013, 22:29
I can no longer Pprune from work as a result of new restrictions put in place to prevent Chinese intrusion into our networks.

We've had the virgin laptop procedure in place for visiting China for years. They wait till you've gone out before entering your room and copying your hard drive. (At least they put it back. The Russians apparently leave you to reassemble your laptop :} )

It does amuse me though that all our USB dongles etc. for remote access are made in China. It's a bit like a burglar setting up as a locksmith.

racedo
21st Feb 2013, 22:48
We've had the virgin laptop procedure in place for visiting China for years. They wait till you've gone out before entering your room and copying your hard drive.

Encyrpting JB messages without indexation or date details and saving on a laptop would really screw them up.

Let them try and figure out Slasher :E

lomapaseo
22nd Feb 2013, 00:18
I was lecturing one day in Shanghai at their university.When I came back from lunch there was a group of students downloading my laptop. Apparently they enjoyed the lecture so much they wanted all the data behind it. :hmm:

RatherBeFlying
22nd Feb 2013, 03:12
Yup until all account details get left on a cheap laptop with no encryption.Making the very rash assumption that a customer file could be loaded into a laptop, the password hash is the result of an encryption process with a highly protected seeding key.

When your bank account manager or teller pulls up your account data, s/he logs onto the mainframe to do that.

The development people do not work with live files. They do have their own ATMs, but you only get play money out:}

I was inside four banks.

Microsoft systems get hacked with regularity. I have not heard of any mainframe banking system getting hacked.

Mind you, I was telling folks a few decades ago of all the ways you could hack a magnetic stripe card:8

FullOppositeRudder
22nd Feb 2013, 03:26
Apparently there have been concerns that a large Chinese firm starting with an 'H' really belongs to the Chinese military and is/has been used to glean information from unsuspecting users of it's equipment http://images.ibsrv.net/ibsrv/res/src:www.pprune.org/get/images/smilies/worry.gif
I have one of their smartphones. I use it to do internet stuff and play Sudoku whilst I am having some quiet time in the small room.

You don't suppose that they would be spying on me in the last remaining refuge of the private citizen - when a man is at his most vulnerable - do you?? :eek:

radeng
22nd Feb 2013, 11:42
Sallyann

I expect you mean the New Street plant in Chelmsford. I did my apprenticeship there.....But the first factory was in Hall Street: it had a blue plaque on the door in the mid 60s, and I believe it's still there - it was furniture warehouse in the 60s.

vulcanised
22nd Feb 2013, 12:26
I used to have long chats with a G3 who worked there, as he drove home.

Reckon he's spinning in his grave over what's happened there.

airship
22nd Feb 2013, 15:18
Every so often, one reads in the news about the (extremely) odd, (London or other) taxi-cab driver simply "handing over to the police", an envelope stuffed with 10s of thousands of / / US$ cash, a small sachet of rough diamonds etc., all simply discovered on the back seat at the end of the shift apparently - why do they do it (simply hand it in I mean)?. And just as often (or not - that is the question), about all those government / Fortune 500 company lap-tops being forgotten in same taxi-cabs.

The question is just how many ordinary taxi-cab drivers are beholding to the Chinese today, whether or not they're of Chinese origin, whether they have slitty-eyes, or if they just like being invited to eat shark fin's soup from time to time by anonymous friends.

One assumes that the average taxi-cab driver would be willing to suitably dispose of any lap-top in exchange for a couple of hundred$ (or whatever the going rate is). If they only realised how ignorant they all were - it's not the lap-top that's worth any money, it's what it contains which could be worth millions, dumb, ignorant taxi-cab driver Danny Devito, Tony Danza, Christopher Lloyd etc. Morons. ;)