Urgent, should I P2F?

[AirofMistique]

Hi Guys,

I know this is going to get shot down in flames, but believe me I am so out options its unbelievable.

I'll start by saying I am not brand new to aviation.
I am not a rich kid or a daddies boy. I am man and have around 10 years in commercial aviation.
However I have reached a very very low point and I am actually now considering seriously P2F to rescue my career, sorry, but thats the way it is.
I am a former BALPA member, a former self improver, a former 'never paid for a TR' guy and trust me, this P2F is on my last chance saloon list...

I have around 3500 hours mainly jet airline time on the EMB 145.
However some life stuff got in the way and I left a terrific job in the desert on the 737 NG due to some issues in my personal life, now resulting in the ever popular Divorce.
Problem is, I have not flown for 12 months and I left this particular operator with just 250 hours on 737. Now, most if not all operators want 500 hours on type.

What are you guys thoughts on my options?

[No_Speed_Restriction]

1. Bite the bullet and, if disposable income permits (I'm not too proud to admit that I chose this option too), go for it or.....
2. Try this link if all else fails (www.samaritans.org)

[AirofMistique]

Hi

@ No Speed, thanks for that link, it's not bad enough for that, nothing is! :ok:

@ Loco I am actually an EX FDB guy, which is a real shame, as I would go back tomorrow, they are a great outfit in many ways.

Has anybody taken part and got successful employment post these line training hours?

[No_Speed_Restriction]

You could always pretend you dont have a B737 rating and go knock on FR's door.

[Narrow Runway]

Get registered with Titan Airways on their website.

They occasionally need good Co-pilots and I would hope there may be some seat swapping coming up soon. But, it is just a guess, so please don't quote me.

Try not to P2F.

[PURPLE PITOT]

If you are going to be a whore to aviation, at least get paid when they :mad: you!

[LoCo Commotion]

AoM,

I am not privy to how they go about selecting one guy over another exactly. I do know that some good guys have applied through CTC and have got nowhere but that's another issue. At the moment there are a few Baby and Flybe guys going through the system and by all accounts they are all good guys.

If you worked there before then surely it's worth contacting them again as they know you - what do you have to lose? You could always try explaining why you left in the first place and see if they will have you back...... unless of course you buggered off without repaying the bond!

Good luck!

[AirofMistique]

@Loco, as I stated, Return to FDB is a No Go. I have fully explored that option.

[cldrvr]

Then do what the rest of the muppets are doing, pay the likes of eJ or FR 100k and give up 30k a year in salary and you can hobby fly for a few years before they let you go for a cheaper bunch. All the while being seen as the scum of the industry by your collegues and never being able to afford a "normal" lifestyle, then show up here in a few years complaining how sh!t flying as a career has become.

Alternatively, there are plenty of others in the sandpit/Far East/ Eastern Europe still hiring guys with time on type.

[luc753]

Maybe you can try wizzair, but it's on A320. i think that you have the min for non type rated pilot too. But i don't know if you have to pay the TR. Good luck

[AirofMistique]

@ Luc 753, thanks, I applied previously, but no go , I think they wanted locals as F/o's.

[Narrow Runway]

Cheap Flights | Find & Book Cheap Flights Online | Jet2.com (http://www.jet2.com)

Advertising on their website for type rated FO's. I know it says 500 hours, but what the heck, apply anyway.

Or, try Aviation News | Aviation Industry & Airline Statistics | flightglobal.com (http://www.flightglobal.com)

There are always adverts on there for 737 pilots.

Or, are these also all no go?

[AirofMistique]

Thanks for the replies so far guys.

Has anybody had any experience with buying 250-500 hours at a specific company and can share their experience maybe?

[bex88]

I know two who did what your considering with a reputable uk airline which has recently been swallowed up. Those guys times it right and found employment but that was with less hours on type and total hours than you have so I don't think you need to P2F. You should be able to find something through agencies to get you in the air again. One other I know got totally and utterly screwed with another program and lost his money and has no job. P2F is ok as a concept if the company has morals and is either A saying there is no job at the end and is doing it in such limited numbers that it does not affect their pilots or B is essentially looking to employ you providing you meet requirements. Some of the charter outfits give six month contracts and then let you go or invite you back on a permanent deal if you ticked all the boxes. Tread very carefully is my advice but I don't think it will change your situation. Good luck

[POS_INT]

hey why cant you go back to FDB?

[AirofMistique]

@Bex88 Well balanced post, looks like there's a few things to consider there then. I'll have to do my home work.

@pos_int See your thinking, but already tried, they don't tend to take people back in the Sandbox.

[captjns]

AirofMistique, try EK, or Etihad or Qatar. You meet their requirements for a FO position. Being part of the problem that P2Fers pose is no solution for proper career progression.

Good luck.

[AirofMistique]

@ CPJNS Thank you good suggestion, got apps in with all three.

Excellent suggestions guys, keep em coming, all food for thought.
The P2F is something I really don't condone and if I can avoid it I will.

[beachbumflyer]

You say you're so out of options it's unbelievable. That is because other
p2flyers did what you're thinking of doing.

[POS_INT]

;) I have a suggestion, COPA in Panama take a look, I dont know what you would do about VISA

or if you fancy a change they are hiring pilots at Skywest in Brisbane

[tdk90]

How about using your EMB Legacy 650 type rating, assuming you have a current one?

London Executive operate a few.

[AirofMistique]

Will correct very quickly, although, from a distance when on approach, it does look like one big yellow 'dessert'.

[AirofMistique]

@beachbumflyer Whilst I completely agree, I do feel this is where the regulators should have got involved, not the pilots.

@POS_INT Thank you, will definitely apply there.

@tdk90 Excellent thinking, I do have the EMB 145 series on my license although now lapsed by 2 years or so. I have applied recently.

[buzzc152]

A second shout for the Legacy. There are quite a few around and you might just find biz jet work to be a great deal of fun !!

[AirofMistique]

@Buzzc152 Totally agree, would be awesome to go on the legacy, would love a shot, certainly enjoyed my time on the EMB 145.

[beachbumflyer]

Don't blame the regulators. It's the pilots fault. But some p2flyers wanted to take a shortcut to the RHS of a jetliner. How is it going to stop? Meanwhile, the
pilot profession keeps going down the tubes.

[AirofMistique]

I agree it's a two way thing and yes I also agree that those taking the P2F route are 'part' of the problem.
Though I still personally lean towards tighter regulation and not allowing airlines and operators to employ them.
I do suspect there are many more factors, the biggest will no doubt be a commercial one.
If you look at the present practice in US, they have now put their regulatory hours minimums up to 1500 before getting anywhere near an airliner.
It does seemed to have helped and I can't see any P2f in the US with a US airline, unless I am mistaken.
The CFII route over there is effectively what was so great here in the UK not too long ago. I went the FI route and did not regret it at all.
However times have now changed, sadly.

[Ronand]

Try Korean air.....

[flash8]

Try Korean air.....

I know he was desperate mate but there is a difference between desperate and utterly desperate...

[kbrockman]

I heard via via via that Norwegian are hiring sometimes even if you're out of spec , your hours on type are low for a first officer position but you have good total time.
The thing that will probably be hardest to overcome is the fact that you didn't fly for so long, maybe try to do something about that first.
Norwegian Air Shuttle ASA - APPLICATION CONTRACT PILOTS (http://norwegian.easycruit.com/vacancy/913761/12113?iso=gb)
Valid JAR-FCL Commercial Pilot License or higher with valid instrument rating, IR(A) ME
Valid Type Rating B737 300-900 with minimum 500 hours on type, whereas 150 hours within the last year
Extensive experience on similar types may be considered (MD80, A320 series etc.)
Minimum1500 hours total time on aeroplanes, and 100 hours Pilot in Command
Valid JAR-FCL 3, medical class 1
Valid frozen ATPL theory
English, written and spoken, (Language proficiency "ICAO" level 5 or higher)
No criminal record or accidents

[AirofMistique]

Thanks guys, Korean needs a degree for F/o's. Sadly I don't have one.

@Kbrockman Thanks, I have put an app in with Norwegian for some time but I suspect you are correct on both accounts, one being my time since last flight, and two not having the 500 hours on type.
But worth a friendly email to them for sure.

[Firestorm]

Jet Two? I think that Xenon have some contracts starting soon, or you could approach Jet Two directly. It's a bit of a desperate measure, but might be worth it for one summer.

On no account should you pay to fly.

[JB007]

Thread on here about BMI Regional, worth an email if you've got the EMB on your licence!

Do not P2F.

[SloppyJoe]

A year ago if you were going to P2F on a 737 you would most likely have ended up at Lion Air in Indonesia. I am happy to say that it is no longer possible as the government finally put an end to it so as to give locals a better chance. For the Indonesian authorities to allow a foreigner to work for Lion Air you now require 250 hours on type!

You say you have 250hrs on a 737 and as one of their recruitment (if you can call P2F recruitment) streams is now gone it may be worth getting in touch with them. Will not be great terms but better than paying.

[root]

;) I have a suggestion, COPA in Panama take a look, I dont know what you would do about VISA

or if you fancy a change they are hiring pilots at Skywest in Brisbane

I thought getting into the Australian system was impossible as an outsiders.

As for the Lion Air suggestion. If you're out of options you're out of options. To go fly for a company on the EU black list is a big step though. Best of luck to you mate!

[captjns]

As sure as the sun rises out of the east, prospective chief pilots will ask why one chose to fly for a " black listed" airline.

As a side bar can anyone justify such a reason?

Mature rational responses only please. Remember, we're trying to keep this lad on the straight and narrow:ok:.

[POS_INT]

Areoplane pilot has been put back on the list for australian immigration purpose, not sure if this is just WA airlines though.

another suggestion is small planet airlines, they are also recruiting :ok:

I dont know if you have seen ice pilots? it was a TV series on in the states last year, a company called Buffalo or something, they were doing freight runs in a lockheed electra! that looked like my dream job! but again not sure on immigration law!

http://www.airport-data.com/images/aircraft/small/000/400/400008.jpg (http://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=i&rct=j&q=buffalo+lockheed+electra&source=images&cd=&cad=rja&docid=DY57Yd9zYYDJHM&tbnid=xIBG01fpz4IbOM:&ved=0CAUQjRw&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.airport-data.com%2Faircraft%2Fphoto%2F000400008.html&ei=CTgmUdmfAYSHhQet54H4CA&bvm=bv.42661473,d.bGE&psig=AFQjCNHH7NJZnwQizL3ew15EufOfn3qqBg&ust=1361545581271930)

[AirofMistique]

Hi guys, all excellent thoughts, please keep them coming, very receptive to new ideas/suggestions.

@CPTJNS, indeed a good thought. Thanks.

@Firestorm, Will do sir, I'll have a good look at that. Thanks.

@Sloppyjoe, Thanks will have a look, certainly on the major to do list.

@JB007, Thank you as well, Bmi regional are a fabulous outfit, would go back tomorrow, email sent.

[AirofMistique]

@ POS_INT Looks like fun! Canada can be tricky though re foreign guys. Very very nice people though.

[Narrow Runway]

Dream job on that Buffalo Electra?

It seems to be missing a propeller for a start! Didn't Atlantic Airways in Coventry have one that had 3 engines missing about 10 years ago?

Anyhow, I digress.

[POS_INT]

ah proberly not a dream job for other guys, but I am such a vintage enthusiast.

they also have DC-3 among other vintage stuff.