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View Full Version : QF 777 rumours again doing the rounds


Crusty Demon
16th Feb 2013, 08:31
Total garbage I say. People are dreaming. 25 for an unidentified buyer? In your dreams.

Firstly, the Boeing production line is booked out for years ahead. If they did buy them, they would be paying top dollar, not what QF can afford. Boeing don't rate QF as an important customer any more, and would not do them any favours.

Secondly, how would management justify the years of describing that type as old technology while awarding massive bonuses for such a great decision not to buy them?

So to all those kidding themselves at work at the moment, what ever happened to your rumours of 787's painted in QF colours spotted on the production line? Or that you were getting them from EK?

Not a chance I say. It seems that everyone is desperate to latch on to a good rumour in order to feel better about the total basket case that working for this once great place has become.

Ultergra
16th Feb 2013, 09:11
You can't trust the Bus, so going Boeing it is.



A TOURIST has told of his flight of terror when he claims an emergency exit on a superjumbo blew open at 27,000ft.
Briton David Reid and his son Lewis feared a bomb had gone off after hearing a "massive explosion" two hours into their flight on the brand new $376 million Emirates Airbus A380.


Read more: Emergency Exit door opens in explosion on Emirates Airbus A380 | News.com.au (http://www.news.com.au/travel/news/emergency-exit-door-opened-in-explosion-on-emirates-airbus-a380/story-e6frfq80-1226579347708)

outside limits
16th Feb 2013, 09:12
Agreed, no chance. They just cancelled 35 B787 orders. They are running outta cash fast.

spelling_nazi
16th Feb 2013, 09:18
Start a new jetstar franchise! That will be amaaaaaaaaaaaaazing!

Flying Spag Monster
16th Feb 2013, 09:36
Emergency Exit door opens in explosion on Emirates Airbus A380 | News.com.au (http://www.news.com.au/travel/news/emergency-exit-door-opened-in-explosion-on-emirates-airbus-a380/story-e6frfq80-1226579347708)

What a load of dribble....

donpizmeov
16th Feb 2013, 09:42
Come on Spag, he was a private pilot, he knows whats happening. It had nothing to do with the 300 G and Ts he had in the lounge and on board at all. Thank god for gaffa tape. Thank god the cabin crew had the sense to bring some on board.

The Don

zlin77
16th Feb 2013, 10:00
Maybe with the QF/EK tie-up, alliance, marriage...there might be a way of directing EK airframes to it's poor Antipodean Cousin...

Ngineer
16th Feb 2013, 11:41
Read more: Emergency Exit door opens in explosion on Emirates Airbus A380 | News.com.au (http://apicdn.viglink.com/api/click?format=go&key=04ae6db96709241d69f389137ea2abf9&loc=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.pprune.org%2Fdg-p-reporting-points%2F508143-qf-777-rumours-again-doing-rounds.html&out=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.news.com.au%2Ftravel%2Fnews%2Femergency-exit-door-opened-in-explosion-on-emirates-airbus-a380%2Fstory-e6frfq80-1226579347708&ref=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.pprune.org%2Fdg-p-reporting-points-90%2F)

Let me guess, it landed, fixed itself (as new planes do these days), and took of again. No dramas.......move along.

RAC/OPS
16th Feb 2013, 13:08
Air was gushing into the cabin like a gale.


....or out!

ejectx3
16th Feb 2013, 15:20
Ill wager out

crwkunt roll
16th Feb 2013, 17:16
Unidentified buyer? CX is about to identify itself methinks.

The Kelpie
16th Feb 2013, 19:07
Maybe with the QF/EK tie-up, alliance, marriage...there might be a way of directing EK airframes to it's poor Antipodean Cousin...


More to Follow

The Kelpie

lamem
16th Feb 2013, 20:17
Pilots have been told that there are 15 B777's coming from EK. Ask the cleaners. They will know the true story.

Keg
16th Feb 2013, 20:43
Wet lease or damp lease from EK perhaps?

If there were 15 777s announced and to be crewed by QF drivers it would do more for engagement than 1000 parchments. I'll believe it when I see them parked at the terminal about to push back on it's first revenue service with QF pilots in the control seats.

CSTGuy
16th Feb 2013, 22:40
If, and thats a big if, there may be B777 in QF livery, how does one prevent the dinosaurs from stuffing up the projected positive engagement coup such an announcement would create, by their demands for night credits, vintage OT requirements, 6 star crew rest facilities, own toilet, ceramic crockery, hot preflight snacks, ++++

I'd give AIPA less than 24hrs for their demands as to what QF LH pilots would demand to fly them. It would be just easier to leave them to EK and use the QF codeshare.... :ugh:

MooseKnuckle
16th Feb 2013, 22:57
^ Exactly.

Some people clutch to the hope that RMS Qantas will do a full 180 and somehow survive unscathed. 777 is out of the question for us, otherwise we'd have it.

Remember this, we are 2 years in, on a 5 year plan. The data suggests the DeathStar will pick up where we've left off.

The Green Goblin
16th Feb 2013, 23:26
I'll dog paddle nude across Sydney harbour if Qantas gets 777s.

The right aircraft, the wrong management :8

Shark Patrol
16th Feb 2013, 23:39
CST Guy,

With the current surplus in mainline, people would be falling over each other to fly the supposed 777 airframes however I, like Keg, will believe it when I see it.

When it comes to conditions, AIPA are only trying to preserve what we have under relentless attack from company management. I guess you would advocate undercutting other pilots and giving up all overtime to get the gig.

Sadly, eventually people like you will prevail, mainline will become a thing of the past, you'll comfort yourselves by saying we deserved it and then bitch about what crap conditions you're on.

The Green Goblin
16th Feb 2013, 23:55
The conditions that mainline long haul enjoy are 'unique'.

You should not have the situation where an A330/747 long haul award FO enjoys a higher salary than a 737/767 Captain.

Equally, you should not have a scenario where A380/330/747 SOs earn more than 737 or 767 FOs.

Is an SO who flies 3-4 trips a month an enjoys 180k really sustainable? Especially when Jetstar, Tiger and Virgin have their Captains on a base salary around this figure?

If Qantas aircraft were not so expensive to crew, and that goes from the Pilot, down to the third generation Qantas bag chucker, to the A scale cabin manager on 130k, they would probably already have the 777.

I'm all for appropriate remuneration for technical skill and training, but paying the rates Qantas do for unskilled labour, along with the working conditions they enjoy is madness when compared to the competition.

Whilst it sucks for those that have been killing the pig for years and want to sustain it, it's akin to sticking your fingers in holes in a damn wall to stem the inevitable.

Domestically Qantas is pretty shielded and the domestic agreement is not so different from Jetstar if both Pilots fly hour for hour. It's pretty competitive and the Pilots seem to be generally happy with their lot (apart from the lack of progression).

Internationally, Qantas has a lot of pain to go through before/if it grows again.

Jetsbest
17th Feb 2013, 00:11
Do you mean A380/747 F/Os earning more than Captains? I have not heard of A330 F/Os earning more than captains... unless perhaps the 737 pilots are on min hours as the A330 F/Os are near max as is currently the case?

Apples with apples & all that... :ok:

The Green Goblin
17th Feb 2013, 00:22
Some guys I know, A330 FOs are getting over 240K. Obviously the '380 FO guys on 280+ are doing pretty well. Goes without saying their lot is better than the 767/737.

In fact many of the Jetstar MOU guys are already talking about going back to the 330 as FO's in a few years time, getting a hefty pay rise and working less.

767 are on min hours as are many on the 73.

Apples and Pineapples mate. It's all got one intended destination by the 'demigods' above :)

Jetsbest
17th Feb 2013, 00:59
Noted. I also know a QF LWOP pilot who did JQ time but, faced with demotion to FO upon returning to QF, decided on an Air China contract on continued LWOP from QF.

Earnings and days off are now greater than both QF FO or JQ captain. I hope that situation is indicative of "market forces" and does something to dispel the part-truths used as facts justifying industrial ideologies in QF. :suspect:

Dynasty Trash Hauler
17th Feb 2013, 00:59
"A330 FOs are getting over 240K. Obviously the '380 FO guys on 280+"

Holy moly, are these numbers for real?

I recently retired as a 744 skipper for a major and was paid less than one of your F/O's.

Thats a huge salary for an FO by any standard.

ramius315
17th Feb 2013, 02:01
The numbers are accurate.

OneDotLow
17th Feb 2013, 02:18
If Qantas aircraft were not so expensive to crew, and that goes from the Pilot, down to the third generation Qantas bag chucker, to the A scale cabin manager on 130k, they would probably already have the 777.

Didn't FWA fix all of that? :D

bangbounceboeing
17th Feb 2013, 02:57
Wow 100k difference between Virgin and Qantas for A330 FO, one has move up or the other needs to move down, one would think?

Capt Kremin
17th Feb 2013, 04:31
Qantas pilots don't get a salary, they work on a credited hourly rate. The current rate for A330 FO's is 161.09 P.C.H.

They are working the max of 175 credited hours per roster. There are 6.5 rosters in a year. OT on the A330 is almost non-existent.

Unless they are overprojecting the hours like crazy the numbers are BS.

Jetsbest
17th Feb 2013, 04:58
I'm sure it's just the start of the new era of honesty, openness & integrity which will make all "the difference" to trust and engagement.

I'm not sure who Ramius knows, but I'm with Kremin; the A330 numbers quoted are not indicative. :rolleyes:

maggot
17th Feb 2013, 05:51
The numbers are accurate.

Eh marco, dunno whose pays you're lookin at but that's BS. I wish. :rolleyes:
In any case, before the oz pesos rise to parity we were the just about the cheapest going round, shall we take a chop cause now it just 'looks' like a lot compared to what it used to? Cause I'm pretty sure it's no cheaper to live round here than before... :ugh:

The Green Goblin
17th Feb 2013, 05:57
Even off your base CK thats still 185k to be a 330 FO as a minimum guarantee.

Add some overtime, WDO payments and allowances on top and it doesn't take much to top it up. Add the roster and lifestyle and the 330 gig is pretty hard to beat at QF.

P.S I know for a fact a 330 SO will GROSS about 170-175K.

EDIT: Sorry, was meaning clear as in gross with all allowances and add ons.

dragon man
17th Feb 2013, 06:08
Well i think il take a demotion then to a 330 SO cos i dont CLEAR $175,000 as a Captain.

maggot
17th Feb 2013, 06:58
That's 'cause it's utter BS dragon man

pull-up-terrain
17th Feb 2013, 07:28
Obviously the '380 FO guys on 280+ are doing pretty well.

Shit! I thought thats what the QF A380 captains were earning :eek: My biggest regret was going down the LAME path after my airframe engines apprenticeship, should of done the flight engineer course 38 years ago :ugh:

Keg
17th Feb 2013, 07:36
P.S I know for a fact a 330 SO will clear about 170-175K.

I call 'bullshit'. That means they're grossing about $250K. On an hourly rate circa $125/ hr I'm not sure how they end up getting paid an additional 800-900 hours per annum above their minimum. That's about 150 hours each BP they work.

Or are you including super (which you don't see) and allowances as part of that number? Even then, the numbers don't add up unless you're talking about someone with enough tax deductions today zero tax. Then you may be getting close to the ball park.

C441
17th Feb 2013, 07:36
Even off your base CK thats still 185k to be a 330 FO as a minimum guarantee.
....unless you're only doing 160 hours/bid period like most Qantas pilots at the minute. That makes the real min guaranteed closer to $168k.

Still that's better than a slap in the face with a dead fish but not quite 240k even with the little overtime there is on the 330 and allowances.

But this was a 777 thread and in the unlikely event some turn up at a gate near here, then AIPA will negotiate a deal to fly them. If Qantas don't like it they'll no doubt get someone else to do it.....and that would be another addition to the sad sideshow that Qantas has become for those that still give their best effort for the brand (as opposed to those trusted with managing it).

629bus
17th Feb 2013, 07:40
Going to CX. Will be announced in two weeks.

Arnold E
17th Feb 2013, 07:45
Or are you including super (which you don't see) and allowances as part of that number?

In any case presented, it doesn't look like any Q pilot is going to turn up at the Salvation Army any time soon. I think my compassion for Q pilots has just diminished somewhat:rolleyes:.

OnceBitten
17th Feb 2013, 08:41
These numbers are BS. I'm an ex 744 f/o and didn't come close to $250k, and that also includes the year the 380 went bang and we all got assigned a massive amount of flying and overtime to cover the grounded aircraft.

To say the 330 f/os are at that salary with the little overtime they do is complete rubbish.

Jackneville
17th Feb 2013, 08:45
Apologies for thread drift, last time I noticed the UA 744 crew clearing SYD Immigration there were 2 Captains and 2 F/O's, the QF guys had 1 Capt.
1 F/O and 2 S/O's, which crew is more expensive ?

The Qf 380's heading to Dubai ex MEL and SYD will have (I believe) 1 Capt. 1 F/O and 2 S/O's, the EK crew have 2 Captains and 2 F/O's........which crew is more expensive ?

QF 777's.......as if.

unseen
17th Feb 2013, 08:57
Apologies for thread drift, last time I noticed the UA 744 crew clearing SYD Immigration there were 2 Captains and 2 F/O's, the QF guys had 1 Capt.
1 F/O and 2 S/O's, which crew is more expensive ?

The Qf 380's heading to Dubai ex MEL and SYD will have (I believe) 1 Capt. 1 F/O and 2 S/O's, the EK crew have 2 Captains and 2 F/O's........which crew is more expensive ?

QF 777's.......as if.

Possibly the Qantas crew.

You have to compare gross packages for the crew and you have to factor it for the number of hours the operator can get from the crew for that amount of money.

You can't say "but we pay huge tax". The cost to the operating company is your gross package, not your after tax package.

What does a four man EK crew gross per year and compare that to a QF crew. Include all costs for the EK crew for sure.

Wouk be interesting to see the result

Conductor
17th Feb 2013, 08:58
P.S I know for a fact a 330 SO will clear about 170-175K.

Why on earth do people go into a public forum with this rubbish? It's not even close to the ballpark and only serves to spread misinformation.

:ugh:

griffin one
17th Feb 2013, 10:51
Imagine what the GRUBBY Lame is making signing for that A380.to bad this thread is actually about triplers and not pilots pay packets, think some of you stick jockeys would be surprised by what those dirty low life's earn.
Let's get back on track the old 777 rumour is just that a rumor.

MASTEMA
17th Feb 2013, 11:11
Or a Bag Chucker for that matter :ok:

QF will need to deal with the [email protected]#k that is the 787 for the next few years before the 777 can be considered.

If its Boeing I ain't...:ouch:

donpizmeov
17th Feb 2013, 11:55
Can I suggest that rather than wish upon fellow pilots the same crap money and conditions that you might have, you instead strive to improve your own conditions to something like theirs?

We don't need to add the pilot body weight to the accelerator for the race to the bottom, management seem to have that all sorted by themselves.

You want to complain about someone making 200k when their CEO rakes in 7mil. Whats that saying about trees and forest.

The Don

The The
17th Feb 2013, 12:29
Well, first hand from a senior QF Executive - QF will "NEVER" see the 777.

That must mean it is a goer, just like another very senior QF executive who stated separating QF Int loss from QF Dom was a "big mistake" and would never happen again. Three weeks later, the official split was announced.

TIMA9X
17th Feb 2013, 13:33
Let's get back on track the old 777 rumour is just that a rumor. the way things are going, 777s would be great, anything, we need something to lift spirits.....

Popped up to KSA (Sunday 17-2, yesterday) to pick up a mate arriving from the States visiting for the first time. Promised him I would try to capture his arrival about 19.00) although there are no 777s in this video, I was stunned how hard you all work at this hour of the day, 016 R was full bore, as busy as any major Airport in the world, the heavies dominated the show, so good, I almost forgot to pick up me mate! Pilots earn their keep, it really was clockwork...



( incidentally, on the way home after picking up my mate, I asked him the usual formality.. "how was the flight", he answered quickly,
"memorable!" :))

ngNIkGYPdb8

Zapatas Blood
17th Feb 2013, 14:39
"Apologies for thread drift, last time I noticed the UA 744 crew clearing SYD Immigration there were 2 Captains and 2 F/O's, the QF guys had 1 Capt.
1 F/O and 2 S/O's, which crew is more expensive ?"

I dont know about EK, but the UA crew would be considerably cheaper than the QF crew despite carrying more bars on the shoulder per seat than QF. Plus QF is at a disadvantage by having SO's that cant crew flights if required when an FO goes sick.

I have a friend who was at just over 130k on his W2 rhs 744 at UA AFTER the wage rise!!!!

Thats 100k short of some you chaps on the same a/c type!

Crusty Demon
17th Feb 2013, 15:08
LR3, I didn't start the rumour, I just felt the need to vent. I am sick of working with people who have their heads in cloud cuckoo land. We are not getting them. Seems a lot disagree. According to this weeks rumour.

Bazzamundi
17th Feb 2013, 15:29
It is so good to have people on a better wicket than you. You can label them greedy, overpaid, a'holes, whatever. But there comes a day when they then become extinct, and all those lower on the pole cheer and shout with joy.

Pity help those who are the next highest on the pole. Suddenly they become the hunted. And it just may be those who cheered and shouted, and spread misinformation, to assist in the demise of those above them, who are suddenly the new kings, soon to be in the target sights.

At the same time, those unemployed tossers who you were overjoyed to see punted, suddenly have to accept any old contract in order to keep the family together and put food on the table. Making your once B grade contract look well and truly generous. And the target gets bigger.

Exactly why Australian aviation is screwed. We are our own worst enemies who would never back each other up. Glad retirement is close.

Zapatas Blood
17th Feb 2013, 17:49
"Exactly why Australian aviation is screwed."

Im confused.

FO pay north of 200k = screwed?

Wow.

maggot
17th Feb 2013, 19:26
Popped up to KSA (Sunday 17-2, yesterday) to pick up a mate arriving from the States visiting for the first time. Promised him I would try to capture his arrival about 19.00) although there are no 777s in this video, I was stunned how hard you all work at this hour of the day, 016 R was full bore, as busy as any major Airport in the world, the heavies dominated the show, so good, I almost forgot to pick up me mate! Pilots earn their keep, it really was clockwork...

Full bore? Clock work? Couldn't have been ksa! :} btw, I think that's more to do with atc... ;)

FoxtrotAlpha18
17th Feb 2013, 20:07
Just like watching a bunch of pre-schoolers in a sandpit...:D

And you guys want to be taken seriously by QF management and a sympathetic public? :hmm:

Offchocks
17th Feb 2013, 20:38
Just like watching a bunch of pre-schoolers in a sandpit...

And you guys want to be taken seriously by QF management and a sympathetic public?
18th Feb 2013 07:26

Welcome to Australian aviation!

What The
17th Feb 2013, 22:07
I would suggest that the majority of respondents to this thread are not QF mainline pilots. Draw your own conclusion as to who they are and the purpose of their posts.

I am taken seriously by both parties you mention thanks.