Gliders and near misses.

[Snap]

With last weekends fatal glider collision in Worcestershire and the news today that a Tornado and a glider came within 100ft of collision near Brize last year is it about time that gliders were forced to take some responsibility for thier actions?

Anyone who flies GA aircraft will know that it is extremely difficult to spot a glider unless its in a turn and downright impossible if its on a headon course .

Near Kemble the other day I saw a glider with orange dayglow stripes which was highly visible and allowed me to take avoiding action in plenty of time. Why is it that most gliders are rendered almost invisible to the naked eye. Whilst i recognise that Powered flight ac must give way to gliders I object to vast areas of lower airspace being effectivley out of bounds due to gliding activities and what appears to be brash disregard to any form of conspicuity at all.


:mad: :mad:

[wysiwyg]

One of the disadvantages of composite structures (of which most modern gliders are manufactured) is that the heating effect of sunlight weakens the structure. As a result, they are mostly painted white with some form of colour at the extremities where there is low structural load.
Surely nowadays we have the technology to overcome this problem, although I guess the costs of re-gel coating (in a lightproof material) would be prohibitive for any secondhand machine.

[Snap]

I understand that but surley something could be done. They seem to WANT to be inconspicuous and then blame powered types when they get too close.

[Mr moto]

Extremely difficult to see unless they're turning?
What do you suppose gliders do for probably 90% of their flight time?

This is a debate you'll never win because pound for pound glider pilots are better airmen than power pilots!

About a quarter of the members of the gliding club I belong to are airline pilots who only fly powered aircraft for money or as a tug.

So you're actually saying you can't see on a map where there's intense gliding activity?

Or is your understanding of meteorology so poor that you don't know how a cumulus works?

Glass fibre designs have that aforementioned disadvantage caused by heat but what is the basic colour of the vast majority of the GA fleet?

Gosh! Its white with a couple of go faster stripes, isn't it?

[yellowperil]

Snap,

There have been experiments done to increase glider visibility; a study carried out by Cranfield University, supported by the BGA and conducted using Grob 109’s at RAFGSA Centre at Bicester concluded they weren’t much good. Day-glo stripes were applied to the leading edges, similar to the markings on ATC gliders and they were ‘spotted’ (or not) compared to unmarked 109’s.

The conclusion was “there is evidence that breaking up the outline of an aircraft by painting it or adding stripes may make it more difficult to detect”, after the motorgliders failed to see each other… I read this report (Flashes don’t show up well in sight test) in the Dec 2000 – Jan 2001 issue of Sailplane and Gliding magazine.

Previous evidence suggests that the best colour for glider conspicuity is black, but as was pointed out, this is not possible due to their GRP construction.

However, there is no substitute for looking out of the window when you’re flying, and I think that glider pilots tend to do this more than powered pilots. Given a glider is always on the lookout for thermal energy to stay airborne, you have to keep your eyes out of the cockpit and connect them to your brain. This is even more the case when there are other gliders around, let alone trying to join your thermal in your blind spot…

Contrast this with some power jockey flying his (or her) instruments, glancing out of the window to confirm what the GPS is already saying…!?!

Extreme examples I’m sure you’ll agree, but I hope you take the point. Don’t forget that when you don’t have an engine you can hear things, like someone else’s engine, and you tend to try and see where the noise is coming from, especially if it’s heading towards you and is clear that the other pilot hasn’t noticed you’re there…! And yes, powered aircraft should give way to gliders.

And as for the military charging around like they’re the only ones in the sky, well that’s nothing new is it?!?

I think the motto is that there is no substitute for good lookout, and to expect the unexpected! Glider pilots know to look out for powered aircraft (they get us into the sky!), do you know to look out for gliders?!?

yp

[sam_flying]

Just my two penny's worth.....

I practically live at a gliding airfield...and very regularly see aircraft fly overhead at heights which our winch cables can quite easily reach. I have also had to take action to get out of the way of a group of Spitfires and a Hurricane as they came home from an airshow last year...transiting right over the airfield seeming oblivious to the thirty or forty gliders in the area.

However - I have often wondered why gliders do not have nav lights or something similar. Everyone has probably seen the little flashing red lights that people put on their bicycles...they are very small and battery powered...and also very bright. I wonder why couldn't these be 'stuck' on the end of each wing of a glider. They are lightweight and very easy to maintain, plus cheap...and would make gliders a hell of a lot easier to see.

Just my humble opinion...trust me I know what its like to get too close to a glider whilst flying a powered aircraft!!!

Sam

[Kray]

Snap, please let us all know when you're flying, so we can keep ourselves safely on the ground.

Gliders are only difficult to spot if you don't keep a good lookout. Power pilots(I have 90hrs) are notoriously bad at not keeping a good lookout, the sit as if they are in a car, looking ahead only, also fumbling around with maps, gps's, charts etc.

As as glider pilot also(70hrs), I spend my entire time looking out of the cockpit, especially looking for other aircraft. The one instrument which glider pilots use predominantly is audiable. This is so we can spend all our time looking out, not head down in the cockpit. There's then the other reasons, looking out for other gliders, soaring birds, changing clouds, location of building clouds etc which are essential to a glider pilot. Chances are we'll have seen you before you've seen us.

Then there's the weather. If you go flying on a good summers day, especially if it's a blue sky with lots of tidy cumulus clouds around, there will be more gliders in the air than powered aircraft. We tend to fly under these nice clouds, and also staight down cloud streets, under them. Tip: Try and fly in the blue bits, as we spend less time in them.

None of this lower airspace is effectivly out of bounds to you. If you can't keep a good lookout, it's probably safer if you fly IFR at altitude, and ATC can do the lookout instead.

You also mentioned a Tornado missing a glider by 100'. I don't reacall a glider ever being hit by a fast jet, however, I do recall collisions and near misses between light aircraft and fast jets(Aerial photography aircraft for example).

[Genghis the Engineer]

I think that glider pilots are more sinned against than sinning, but...

(1) It can't be that hard to put stobes and a power supply on a glider without damaging it's performance.

(2) Yellow and orange are also very visible but still reflect UV and thus don't damage the GRP.

(3) When you spot an aircraft that hasn't seen you (and flying microlights much of the time, I understand the problem well) it is sensible to tip your wing planform so that the other chap can see it. I do this regularly in the microlight, and don't see why a glider pilot can't rather than just ignoring the other traffic - which is legally correct but poor airmanship.

(4) It would be no trouble at-all to stick a Luneberg lense within a glider fuselage, making sure that you show up on primary returns.

G