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airship
14th Feb 2013, 19:22
I might well get myself into trouble for this, but I've been following events concerning this USA ex. police officer (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-21462251) from time to time over the past few days.

I ignore the veracity behind his arguments / accusations and "declared war" against his former work colleagues. Presumably, now that it's all over, the mysteries surrounding this serial killer and his work colleagues will "come out" eventually.

But what struck me about this latest USA episode of multiple-killings using military-type assault weapons etc., was that the perpetrator "severely-limited his actions" towards his ex-colleagues, most of whom were already previously informed of his intended revenge / killing spree, and not at least intentionally, taking the lives of any of the "innocent citizens" he came across during the authorities' hunt for him etc.

So why I thought it noteworthy to post and introduce that aspect of Christopher Dorner. He probably could have (but did not) choose to introduce himself and his weapons in any number of schools / shopping malls etc., unleashing much more devastation and grief, than he did. Which perhaps puts him in a class away from others most recently?!

Many of us here in JB regularly express our own hatred of our national politicians, the EU or whatever, "and would willingly eliminate them all given the opportunity from the comfort of our arm-chairs from which we post". Christopher Dorner had his own (obviously more refined and targetted) agenda.

So help me God, but I have to admit to having some small admiration for him. :uhoh:

500N
14th Feb 2013, 19:28
airship

"I have to admit to having some small admiration for him"

On this one I will strongly disagree with you.

"was that the perpetrator "severely-limited his actions" towards his ex-colleagues,"

The daughter of the Police Captain an ex colleague ????

Sounds like a civilian to me, regardless of family.

11Fan
14th Feb 2013, 19:31
airship.

Yeah, let's just chalk it up to Workplace Violence, eh?

:hmm:

I suggest that your admiration is misplaced.

Not for nothing, his Mother lives two blocks away from me. She was at our local Mexican Restaurant when they broadcast the cabin going up in flames. This one was close to home.

500N
14th Feb 2013, 19:41
On this subject, I don't think the Police did themselves any favours
shooting up the two women in the Blue Pick up truck !

I hope the report is released into how that Major FU occurred
because the number of cross checks not run through their heads
before opening fire is beyond belief.

Matari
14th Feb 2013, 21:08
What is it about leftists that makes them admire bloodthirsty killers?

Lyman
14th Feb 2013, 22:22
Just an updated version of OJ Simpson, really. A Frank Serpico, a black man who had what is probably a solid grievance against the Police. He reported a vicious attack on a suspect, and got steamrolled and fired, because he crossed the thin blue line.

He could have had a two part series with Oprah, an exclusive interview with Piers Morgan, and likely a multimillion dollar contract for his own movie.

He went a different way. I think his anger was uncontrollable, he seems to have known the difference between citizen and his enemy, the rank and file. He also shows us what these serial murderers do when they put ego above their own life, and the lives of others. Whether his issue was valid, we may not ever know. One thing, I think he thought it was just.

Not caring whether one lives or dies makes a formidable evil enemy to us all.

OJ did not want to die. He is a coward. This officer was a different sort.

No hero, but a study in pathology. My ex bil had an anger like this man. A retired Fireman, his anger was with his wife, my wife's sister. He shot her to death, shot himself, and left us to stare into space wondering what it is about some people that they cannot control themselves.

It is at all times a good thing to be kind, to try to understand, and to offer help when it feels right. One never knows when some little thing might be just the thing....

500N
14th Feb 2013, 22:30
Matari

"What is it about leftists that makes them admire bloodthirsty killers?"

Can you expand on this please and how it relates to the OP as in airship
and to lefties in general and not righties !

Cacophonix
14th Feb 2013, 22:39
What is it about leftists that makes them admire bloodthirsty killers


I am a leftist and a non statist at heart and I love gratuitous violence. Matari may have a point until I shoot him, preferably with an FN rifle. :p


Caco

Matari
16th Feb 2013, 01:40
500N:

My post relates to airship's 'admiration' for Dorner. The dead douchebag wrote a leftist screed justifying his murderous actions, which apparently pleases airship.

I cannot imagine typical conservative praising a similar killing rampage, that's all.

As for Caco, what can I say? I guess I bring the worst out in him, although why I cannot imagine (except he too is a Che-ficianado).

galaxy flyer
16th Feb 2013, 01:58
Caco

This fascinates, how you could possibly be a "leftist" and a "non-statist" (whatever that is) at the same time? Cognitive dissonance, thy name is Cacophonix.

GF

lomapaseo
16th Feb 2013, 02:43
Matari

"What is it about leftists that makes them admire bloodthirsty killers?"

Can you expand on this please and how it relates to the OP as in airship


He was probably just admiring his marksmanship with the weapon

500N
16th Feb 2013, 02:53
Matari

Thanks

I didn't read the manifesto so didn't pick up on the lefty !

Ozzy
16th Feb 2013, 03:16
airship wrote
I might well get myself into trouble for this

Mission accomplished, congrats.

Ozzy

Cacophonix
16th Feb 2013, 05:17
GF

Not all leftists believe that sovereignty should be vested in the state (i.e. statism). In fact statism is more often a feature of fascism (i.e. of the right). A non statist is somebody who believes that power should be vested in the people (i.e. not a believer in statism).

I am left leaning but believe in individual freedom. Perhaps I am more of a libertarian with leftist principles then.

No real cognitive dissonance there I might state! ;)

Caco

SASless
16th Feb 2013, 12:28
As an example of how flawed the Left is in general....and AIRSHIP in particular.....remember this guy did not kill any LAPD Officers....but did murder the daughter and her husband of a retired LAPD Officer.

He killed other Police Officers but none belonging to the the Department he hated.

There was nothing "noble" about him....he was just a very warped, racist, left winged Loon who murdered innocent people.

At least he had the decency to kill himself when the reality of his failures to achieve anything and wind up being cornered like a Rat with no place to run.

He got his just deserves and if there is a God in Heaven.....he regained enough sanity long enough to realize how wrong he was. He want to go out in a blaze of glory.....but in the end all he got was the blaze. A fitting end I might add.

Lyman
16th Feb 2013, 12:42
What is attractive to some is the "Robin Hood" nature of the genesis of Dorner's journey. He filed charges against his (on the job) partner, an LAPD officer. He got steamrolled by IA, and fired.

What followed was a perversion of what he held too closely, Injustice. He could have pursued his quest for justice in traditional ways.

Instead, he was infected with an evil form of "cop rage". I think his story is more complicated than the Press would have it.

It is possible to hold two thoughts concurrently, but seldom whilst angry, or distracted by the blindness of pre judgment.....

Many Liberals think the Manifesto was a novel....And reality just a dream, that can be "scripted".

sayin'

Cacophonix
16th Feb 2013, 12:47
The man was clearly deranged as were the LAPD officers who fired on innocent people in a pickup truck in their blind pursuit of 'justice'.

Stop your mind and load the ammunition.

Caco

chuks
16th Feb 2013, 12:52
I don't want any!

What part of "started his killing spree by murdering two young people in cold blood" did you miss, Airship, in order to find some "small admiration" for this man? Too, wearing a police uniform turns you into some sort of legitimate target?

Personally, I blame Wi-Fi for this sort of thing, the way that someone, nowadays, can post while sat on the can. It has unleashed stupidity that is one order of magnitude greater, upon the world. Well, liberal education does come into this, but it's Wi-Fi that makes it possible to share every idiot notion that pops into one's head, just like that.

Cacophonix
16th Feb 2013, 13:04
I guess there is a lunatic Robin for all seasons and indeed for all political points of view. People like T McVeigh spring to mind from the other side of the political spectrum.

Caco

galaxy flyer
16th Feb 2013, 15:49
Caco

Is that sorta like the ultimate condition of communism when the state whithers away.

GF

RatherBeFlying
17th Feb 2013, 00:00
It says a lot about the LAPD that Dorner attracted quite a substantial fan base:eek:

The innocent people shot by the LAPD during this episode opens the discussion as to which is/was the greater danger to the public.

500N
17th Feb 2013, 00:11
It goes without saying, the Police with a firearm who doesn't go through
a cross check of information before opening fire.

Matari
17th Feb 2013, 00:31
So on the one hand we have 'premeditated murder,' and on the other a tragic mistake in the heat of the chase.

One could bring up de Menezes but that would be gauche, or ironic, if one were cracking a joke that nobody got.

11Fan
17th Feb 2013, 01:10
The innocent people shot by the LAPD during this episode

What are they upset about. They're getting a new truck out of it.

con-pilot
17th Feb 2013, 01:15
They're getting a new truck out of it.

A most likely enough money to fill the bed of the pickup.

Lyman
17th Feb 2013, 01:46
If the officers were acting in their jurisdiction, or in "pursuit".

Otherwise, insurance may not pay, and the County might be out some actual money.

Depends on how comprehensive their risk management is. Some serious retraining, regardless.

con-pilot
17th Feb 2013, 02:03
Lyman my friend, a question.

Huh, does LA county have any real actual money, for the payoff to be taken out of?

:p

Lyman
17th Feb 2013, 02:46
Depends on whether it's PD or SO? I think PD travelled to Big Bear, if so, they shouldn't have. San Berdoo was the controlling aithority.

PD had all armor, and swat trucks...yet they were kept at bay by the SBC Sheriff.

Who shot the two ladies? PD?

As we know, there is no such thing as government money. It never stops being OURS.

:ok:

SASless
17th Feb 2013, 09:49
The LAPD has a speckled past.

They have always been the most "militant" of Police Agencies.

One example......Hostage Taking situations.

New York City PD.....will negotiate as long as it can with the goal of everyone going home unhurt....except the Hostage Taker who goes to jail.

LAPD....they negotiate to Gun Fire.....the plan is to identify all the hostage takers....get them into clear view of a Sniper....then shoot them in the Head.

Huge difference in philosophy.

LAPD has been an innovator in Police Tactics....not always in the best ways though.

airship
17th Feb 2013, 13:09
As always, it appears that those whose own views of the World can only ever be in black & white have the upper-hand. There is no room nor place for those of us who perhaps see the World in shades of grey or even full-colour...

Have the former amongst us here been able to lance their sebaceous glands on the end of their noses (or elsewhere) suitably by now, so that we might conduct discussions on a more open and congenial (instead of congenital) basis and less poisonous contents?

I haven't read Christopher Dorner's manifesto etc. But some similarities between this situation and the "Rambo" First Blood movie came to my attention and lead to my original post.

Rambo Stallone - On The Set Of First Blood : Part1 ( filming location video ) - YouTube

What would you have preferred? An estranged Christopher Dorner, or any of the others but especially those who targetted schools...?! :(

Matari
17th Feb 2013, 13:29
How about...neither?

Unicorns and kitty cats and puff the magic dragon...such lovely things when one is pompette.

airship
17th Feb 2013, 13:41
...pompette

Congratulations for having made an effort Matari... :ok:

Please do remind us all how over the past 60 years or so, the USA have sent their 18-19 year olds to battle in all corners of the World so that in 2013, and just so you could call me a pompette.

Congratulations, once again...

From the BBC (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-21476904): However, according to Renford Reese, professor of political science at California State Polytechnic University, the folk hero status bestowed by some on Dorner reflects a lingering mistrust, the root causes of which the authorities have yet to address.

For this reason, he insists, it's not enough simply to dismiss Dorner as crazy.

"Of course he's a murderer, of course he did wrong, of course we grieve for the families," Reese says.

"But he's a product of our institutions - our education system, our military, our police. Somehow all these things converged to create a monster."

Whether or not Dorner's grudges were legitimate, it's clear from his manifesto that they had consumed him long before he took cover for the last time in a lonely cabin.

As the flames rose around him and his erstwhile comrades closed in, he was left alone with the only enemy he had left to confront. Himself.


Perhaps, some food for thought for all those who can still see beyond black & white, grey or in full colour.

chuks
17th Feb 2013, 14:17
You seem to be so very, very in touch with ze Zeitgeist, that "We are all guilty!" schtick.

I can't touch you; there's just no way to satirize your mindset on this. Normally this kind of stuff bounces around, hitting the edge of reason and recoiling into the range of rational thought, but you seem to have perforated the barriers of reason, to go flying out into some sort of screaming void.

I like it, though, the quality of your thought! I could sit here, pulling the wings off flies, and if anyone complains that I am some sort of defective, cruel bastard... well, "Give me a break; I haven't massacred any school children!"

You should copyright this drivel you post, and call it "The Airship Get Out of Jail Free Card." Anything short of the mass murder of small children means that you really are an "all right sort of bloke." It really is a shame that so few people here are able to follow your train of thought, isn't it? Well, at least the chuks is with you in this, your lonely crusade to show compassion for mass murderers.

It's tragic, really, the way someone shoots a few people and then everyone just gets all over his case about that, never stopping to think that, hey, there are far worse people in the world! It's very good of you to point this out, especially since there's such a high risk of being taken for an idiot to think that way. It's you and me, buddy, just you and me... and the odd professor, and a few protesters in front of the LAPD headquarters.

Don't worry about SASless; he has this thing about people who kill cops, so that you just cannot expect him to understand.

airship
17th Feb 2013, 14:22
Keep your drooling to yourself matey. If you want to have any "friends" left... :ok:

chuks
17th Feb 2013, 14:36
You must be sat there watching, to see how well received this sample of original thought is.

Never mind, Airship, I am with you on this! If nobody else understands you, I do.

Lyman
17th Feb 2013, 14:49
Being able to juggle more than one pov at a time will not get one a job in the circus.

Perhaps in PPRuNe it will......

Last week, an angry thirty something felt offended when a distracted driver impinged on "his" space. He chased the man down, and shot him.

Last week, three minor children with guns had a shootout in West Oakland. Two of them survived.

I won't drive through Richmond's streets durng daylight. At night, I drive twenty miles around my hometown against the possibility of a flat tire, and death by tire iron, or worse. And I am a big fella. But I am not careless.

Dorner was how different? PTSD? The LAPD is a respected authority downtown?

Not in West Covina, trust me.

Life is a little more complex than walking over to a corner, digging in, and defending one's self with rehearsed rhetoric.

it seems to me...

radeng
17th Feb 2013, 15:35
LAPD don't seem too accurate with their shooting, either. Holes in people's houses - it's a wonder nobody was killed.

But it seems police forces everywhere get away with shooting innocents.

And the irresponsible gun slingers carry on.......

I just hope the City of LA gets taken for about $50 million in compensation. Taken out of the pension fund for the LAPD.

chuks
17th Feb 2013, 16:11
But four people were killed! Okay, two of them were law enforcement officers, not school children, so that's okay, at least according to Airship if I understand him correctly on this, but what about the other two? Is it enough now, just to be the next of kin or in the extended family of a cop to make one fair game? I find it absolutely fascinating, the way people can jump right over having much concern for the people this poor, misunderstood, undervalued even, man killed and wounded, to focus on lesser things.

I agree that it probably wasn't the smartest law enforcement move ever, mixing two women up with one large black man, just because of the make and color of their vehicles, and then letting loose with a fusillade, but if you were looking for someone coming to kill you, might you not be a bit jumpy too?

RatherBeFlying
17th Feb 2013, 17:54
Radeng's on to something:ok:

Instead of sticking the poor taxpayer with liability for police misconduct, it should come out of police pension funds -- along with the attorney fees:E

Methinks the police might just become motivated to weed out their own ranks. They do know the ones who tend to get carried away.

con-pilot
17th Feb 2013, 18:20
Instead of sticking the poor taxpayer with liability for police misconduct, it should come out of police pension funds -- along with the attorney fees


Trying to find fault with that, but I cannot, good idea.

Hell of an idea Radeng . :ok:

radeng
17th Feb 2013, 18:32
con,

it might be a hell of an idea, but it will never happen!

Making them buy their own ammunition might reduce the amount of metal flying around, though.

Lonewolf_50
18th Feb 2013, 13:14
Dorner knows where cops are vulnerable. He was one. So, that's where he struck.

Too bad he didn't pursue his drive for vindication by other means. :(

SASless
18th Feb 2013, 14:11
Radeng,

In nine years of Police work.....fired not a single round except at paper targets and metal knockdown targets.

I was sorely tempted on a couple of occasions however....fortunately never did pull the trigger despite taking up slack on a couple of guys who really needed killing but knew when to put down their weapons and show us their arm pits.

One I very happily could have dumped.....but fortunately for him he picked a venue with entirely too many witnesses not dressed in Blue.

Lyman
18th Feb 2013, 14:35
In my USA, Judges wear black robes, not blue uniforms....

The whole idea is to protect the accused, until Due Process can deal with him/her...

Sometimes it isn't easy. It is especially so at those times that evil be isolated, and preserved to experience the wrath of all of us, not one of us.

radeng
18th Feb 2013, 15:02
SASless,

Pity LAPD aren't more like you......And the Metropolitan Police here.

I don't think any US cops have yet got round to tasering a blind man with a white stick, although I know they've done 7 year old girls.