What would you do?!

[benppl]

You're 26.

Let’s say you owned a company, which was turning over 1.2 million a yearwith about a 35% profit margin (gross)

The business is expanding but is operating in a terrible market, 35-40% ofnet profits are used in expansion plans. The end result would be a profitablebusiness but not really sellable as a going concern so you'd have to do it forthe rest of my working days.

You had two business partners who were family, profits are shared and youearned a reasonable wage out of it (45K) plus the business bank balance...ifyou needed anymore.

Sounds great but you dislike the job, and despise the industry. You're goodat it but even though its your own bag it feels like a bit of choir.

You have your PPL (completed 15 months ago)

You love flying

You feel like you could go to work every day as a pilot and actually lookforward to flying. Not sat in the office.

You could sell your share in the business to pay for the training and moneyto live off for 2/3 years.

Your pretty intelligent but not so much in a academically way. Verypractical and knowledgeable.

You can pass exams if you put the effort in.

But

You've worked for yourself since you were 17

You'd quite like to stay in the UK and preferable in the NW where I am now

You're GCSEs were average, Cs Few Bs and Ds

Average/Good at maths

Poor at English

You would need to earn around late 30s minimum within a few years.

You’ve never had to interview for anything..your current industry is apeople business where contacts matter.

Would you train CPL? Go for the airline with the end goal of captain (orfurther roles but still flying)

[oldspool]

Buy an aeroplane, and get your flying fix at weekends.

[GAZ45]

All I can say is there's many people here scrabbling around for a few grand to get 25 hours worth of flying in towards their dream job.

If its your true dream and you have that sort of financial security, I know what I would be doing in your shoe's.

Maybe go for an aptitude test at one of the bigger FTO's to get them to assess your academic/aptitude potential? Your english or maths might be better or worse than you think - so go and check.

[benppl]

Quick one

The spacing in that post has been corrupted when Ive done a spell check.

My English isn't that bad, ha.

[benppl]

@ Gaz

Where can I find information relating to an aptitude test?

[GAZ45]

Search online at the bigger integrated schools; Oxford Aviation, FTE, CTC if you’re in the UK.

Some people here might say that these schools will let anyone in just to take their money - but I am pretty sure that all these schools offer money back guarantee if you fail the course. So it is actually in their best interest to only let people join the school if they think they are capable of completing the training.

Nevertheless, it’s probably a good place to start, because they will assess your aptitude for flying, maths, basic technical understanding, and you will have to do some group exercises which will suss out your english/communication abilities etc. The only problem is: its costs around £250... but that shouldn’t be too much of a problem for you considering your situation?

[benppl]

£250 isn’t a problem. I just wouldn't want to do something that I would get a definite yes even if they think I’m not really up to it. Just because they think I'm going to buy a integrated course.

If I did proceed then I'd like to do modular training

[CelticRambler]

Open an overseas office and fly yourself there every day. :ok:

[GAZ45]

It’s a tough one. I don’t know what their policies are regarding the 'pass' mark for aptitude. I wouldn’t imagine it’s very high - they are a business at the end of the day. But, they can’t just let anyone in either, they surely need to do some degree of vetting, otherwise their failure rate wouldn't look too promising.

I'd go modular too - but that’s a different debate entirely! I guess doing one of these aptitude tests is really the only way of having a taste of a selection process - you said you have never had an interview, so it’s probably a good place to start, and you will get some feedback regarding your performance.
I can’t really see any other way of ‘checking’ you aptitude and ability to become a professional pilot.

Don’t forget, all these schools want to sell you their product, so the chances are there won’t be many people that tell you you’re not up to it.

[jez d]

The Guild of Air Pilot and Air Navigators (GAPAN) run independent aptitude assessments, see here: Aptitude Tests - GAPAN (http://www.gapan.org/career-matters/careers-information/aptitude-tests/)

Have you considered whether you'd be able to gain a Class 1 medical ?

[GAZ45]

I never knew GAPAN did that - interesting!

[benppl]

Thanks for the info guys.

Re Med, I'm pretty confident I could pass.

Very active lifestyle, eyes good, no health issues I'm aware of!

[benppl]

Yea, I think I'm going to speak to the provider of the aptitude tests, then take things from there.

I just didn't want to walk away from this if there would be an underlying issue with my issues with English (I'm spell checking everything here, have done for 10 years) If it were a basic requirement for an airline then Id have to give it a miss etc.

[Larscho]

You want to do it modular, that is good.
I suggest you don't quit/sell your business until you actually have a new job as a pilot. You are still fairly young so you don't need to rush things.

And be prepared to lose it all and never land a decent job in UK or even Europe.
That is the reality for a lot of people unfortunately.

I wish you the best of luck!

[benppl]

Yea I couldn't sell my share out until I had a job, even then I would still keep 10%.

The type of industry I’m in leaves me with side-line opportunities that wouldn't interfere with a new career.

[BigGrecian]

Maybe go for an aptitude test at one of the bigger FTO's to get them to assess your academic/aptitude potential? Your english or maths might be better or worse than you think - so go and check.

I would never recommend anyone to rely on an ATO's aptitude test.

They are self servicing marketing tools more than anything else.

The only one you should rely on is GAPANs as they are the only impartial source : - Aptitude Tests - GAPAN (http://www.gapan.org/career-matters/careers-information/aptitude-tests/)

[Higher for hire]

I would not bother too much with tests. There is simply no test that can reliably predict whether you will become a good or a poor pilot. Neither there is any test that can predict if you could become a good physician, lawyer, engineer or whatever. Finally only time will tell. Psychologists, universities and flight schools keep telling you otherwise but these statements are necessarily unproven as they usually reject candidates who fail their respective assessments so how should they ever get to know if their assessment was wrong?

If I were you I would also take the modular route. Build up your licenses one by one, enjoy the training flights and by no means burn your bridges to your present occupation! Noone can tell you right now if you will ever get a job in aviation. But until you try you will never find out. The worst thing that can happen on the modular way is that you become a safer and more knowledgeable private pilot. The worst outcome of an integrated flight training is an unemployed and bankrupt wannabe pilot who cannot even afford private flying anymore.

[jez d]

Beg to disagree H-for-H

The GAPAN aptitude tests are based on the tri-service military aircrew selection and have a proven track record.

That said, dedication is probably the most important asset that a pilot cadet should hold in his or her arsenal. That and good networking skills - the industry is surprisingly small

Best of luck Ben

[Higher for hire]

jez d,

the GAPAN test is not meant to be for someone like Ben as you can read on their website (http://www.gapan.org/career-matters/careers-information/aptitude-tests/):



It should be emphasised that the tests are designed for those with little or no flying experience. The validity of the tests declines rapidly for those
who have in excess of 150 hours of pilot flying.


Moreover, as I said before, aptitude tests in general lack a proven negative predictive value, the GAPAN test is no exception from this rule and a good example for a very common misconception:

Various flying schools and their client airlines have been very satisfied with the progress of their students who took the tests, and the Guild has used it as part of commercial flying scholarship selection procedure to good effect.

This is nice to know, maybe even true, but it is not what the test was aiming for. The goal of the test was to identify individuals who



were patently not suited to be professional airline pilots.


And this is definitely something the test is not going to tell you. If you pass any test like this you will most probably be able to graduate from flight school and become a pilot. But this does not mean that the converse argument is also true, far from it! If you fail the test this is meaning actually nothing.

I would not spend money on any of these tests, neither would I base my career decisions on their results.

[GAZ45]

Seems the GAPAN test is a good place to start then! (and cheaper than the FTOs!)

Good luck Ben, all the best.

[Artie Fufkin]

You'd quite like to stay in the UK and preferable in the NW where I am now

This could be an issue.

If you want to be a pilot you have to accept that you could end up working anywhere in the world. Furthermore, if you do get lucky and get a job in the UK, you could still loose your job at any time and be forced to either quit the profession or head to a less savoury part of the globe. Experienced hires within the UK are now few and far between and the situation will only get worse as the industry consolidates further.

You have to be prepared to go to where the work is.

aptitude test... The only one you should rely on is GAPANs

I was let down badly by GAPAN, who told me I had "low chance of success in pilot training". We were told to believe these results as they were proven to be correct. I somehow managed to pass all ATPL theory exams with first time passes, first time pass at CPL, first series pass at IR and made command at my airline in minimum hours. Something doesn't add up.

I have spoken to ex military pilots who were involved with the military tests at RAF Cranwell, which GAPAN use in their aptitude tests, who burst out in to open laughter when I told them I had considered giving up after my low score with GAPAN. The tests are used to test military grade flying. You will (hopefully) never need to fly inverted, pulling negative G, at night, whilst being shot at in civilian operations. The required aptitude is not the same!

[phil_socata]

Hi Ben,

I can relate to what you're writing. I'm 29, in an management position at a SME, unfortunately less profitable and with much less shares than you:{ ...

While successful in my job and having a clear perspective of succeeding the present CEO in a few years, it became very obvious to me that this is not what I'm searching for. Furthermore, it's an extremely demanding business with 60 hours or more of work each week, hardly any weekends, never more than 10 consecutive days on holiday in the past 10 years and so on ...

I did my PPL 7 years ago and already thought about doing commercial training back then. Last year, I started out and now I am a few weeks away from my first ATPL theory exams. By autumn, I should have completed the practical exams. Afterwards, I want to do the FI rating ASAP.

With my company, I secured an agreement that I'll continue to consult them and do freelance work for them. This benefits the company and mitigates my risk of total unemployment. Furthermore, it should fit in well with instructing.

While you say you are aiming for the airlines, I'm more interested in corporate flying. One of my ground school instructors inherited a souvenir shop, sold it and is now Captain on a Challenger. Another one had a comparable position to mine and is now flying Citations :cool: ...

So now all is set. It's of course an enormous change and a strange feeling, but you gotta do what you gotta do http://images.ibsrv.net/ibsrv/res/src:www.pprune.org/get/images/smilies/thumbs.gif .