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Snapdragon
13th Feb 2013, 21:15
From an experience today, why do bikers think they are more important and precious on the road than me in my car? Why do I have to move over to let them past on a single carriage road when I can't go any faster due to traffic ahead of me! And then to give me rude hand signals on passing...arrogant narcissist to##ers springs to mind! Why am I a second class citizen because I drive a car? And then don't start me off about horses as I ride and own several and everyone hates horses!! Rant over....deep breath....count to ten!:ugh:

Halfbaked_Boy
13th Feb 2013, 21:23
Because they are a vulnerable road user.

Indeed, there's no law forcing you to move over, but common courtesy would dictate that you help 'em out.

The bottom line rests with the overtaking road user to ensure that the maneuver is performed safely, but it falls down to human nature that we should all give and take a little.

That's how I drive/ride anyway, and I rarely feel stressed on the roads :)

Halfbaked_Boy
13th Feb 2013, 21:24
P.s. let's not forget, motorcyclist or not, he was human and might simply have been a c*nt!

Snapdragon
13th Feb 2013, 21:28
Ok, so we are on a twisty country road and we both are in a rush/ hurry. There is a slow driver ahead and I want to overtake but am waiting for the right opportunity. Why should I give up the slim chance of getting past because a biker thinks he has more right to overtake than me? I live in a really rural area!

Snapdragon
13th Feb 2013, 21:30
HB, I think he was!!!

G-CPTN
13th Feb 2013, 21:31
I always 'give-way' to motorcyclists that catch me up - they 'disappear' ahead quickly and are gone . . .

Snapdragon
13th Feb 2013, 21:36
So do I, in busy traffic when I can't overtake I will move to the left and give space so bikes can get past, but I object to bikers bullying me to get past when it's fair game for everyone!

Halfbaked_Boy
13th Feb 2013, 21:38
Oh yeah that's where our friend 'courtesy' comes into play again! If I was on the bike and in the situation you described, I'd stay back so you can concentrate on your overtake, then gun it past both of ya when you're safely tucked back in :ok:

In order to avoid becoming a hypocrite, I have to confess I'm as guilty as the next guy of sitting a bit close to the bumper in front when I'm in a rush and they're taking the p*ss, never get funny about it because ultimately I know I'm the one who should have walked out the door earlier!

Snapdragon
13th Feb 2013, 21:44
HB, I agree but there are the majority of self righteous types that are not of your mindset. They give all bikers a bad name. If I can give room then I will but I won't be dictated to by a person that thinks he is better than me! The majority of bikers are tarred by one brush !

ShyTorque
13th Feb 2013, 21:48
Why not just chill out and let him go past?
He won't delay you very much, although you will be delaying him a lot.
A biker can overtake in many places where you can't, if you let him, that is.....

Thing is, if he was in a car, to make his arrival time he'd probably have set off earlier than you did in the first place. You'd then be stuck behind him in the traffic queue and you'd still be complaining.

If a biker is in an obvious hurry and you feel he is pushing you too hard, just let him go past anyway. At least you can't then be involved in his accident. ;)

Snapdragon
13th Feb 2013, 21:56
Shy torque , you are probably right, good answer, but this goes further, why should we always back down, why is someone else always right. This applies to racism, Colour, national flag, religion, etc!! Awaiting triple A!!:}

Milo Minderbinder
13th Feb 2013, 22:09
Snapdragon

Its roadhogs like you which made me carry a mason's lumphammer in the pocket of my bellstaffs, and have metal studs on the outside of my left boot back in my biker days. The display or use of both usually brought reason to those idiots who tried to race a bike, or obstruct it.
Car drivers have a horrible habit of trying to accelerate to match speed when a bike wants to get past - I bet you do the same. I understand its a phenomenon not unknown to pilots as well - called something like involuntary target synchronisation? A bang on the body panel usually stops it effectively

Snapdragon
13th Feb 2013, 22:31
Milo, it seems I have attracted the attention of one of the [email protected]&kers I was talking about! If you attack me with a hammer then fair game bring it on! That just shows the mentality of the biker fraternity! Be advised I will not back down! I do give space when available. But don't feel obliged to yield when it is not necessary!

500N
13th Feb 2013, 22:35
Don't piss off bikers, it is very easy for them to drop back after having
been cut off, wait for a build up of traffic, come up behind you and
put their boot into your tail lights as they go past and they are gone.

You can't catch them and you are left with a nice repair bill.

I try to pull over and let them past as I know what it is like
when I ride a bike.

But their are some that are a bit pushy.

Snapdragon
13th Feb 2013, 22:39
Further to my last, if I see someone with a hammer in his boot or big studs I will try to ram him and remove milo from the gene pool! Sorry if you are not milo, collateral damage!! Only kidding!

500N
13th Feb 2013, 22:42
Snap

Which is why they kick the tail lights in.

It is very hard to ride a bike accurately with one hand
and swing a hammer with the other.

Milo Minderbinder
13th Feb 2013, 22:43
Snapdragon
On the contrary - the tools were required for defensive purposes when idiots like yourself attempted to stop others from overtaking. They weren't there to attack, but merely to defend against those who felt they had a sole right to the road. Most people (you're obviously an exception) would be horrified to see from a bikers perspective just how dangerously antagonistic many car drivers are. You have to have ridden a bike to understand. You're obviously not a bike rider, so you're in no position to judge what a bike is capable of doing, yet you complain about being overtaken by something of which you have no concept of its capability. You say you don't give way when its not neccesary. The point is you haven't a clue whether its neccesary or not.

Snapdragon
13th Feb 2013, 22:45
500N
If someone came past like that and kicked my car, i would have-noted him already, I would "flinch" and take the [email protected] down! Sorry officer, there was a bang and he was on the road, don't know how it happened!!

500N
13th Feb 2013, 22:49
I've seen it done and they are gone before you know it.

The driver didn't know WTF to do as he couldn't move or change lanes.

Biker was of into the sunset :O

(BTW, the driver deserved it !)

broadreach
13th Feb 2013, 22:56
Snapdragon,

Roads are for common use. Cars, tractors, bikes and, where there aren't pedestrian pavements, people. The onus on all users is to watch out for the dangers posed by others. i.e. simple common sense (and the law if I'm not mistaken). And if you have any common sense at all you'll be aware that some of the others are idiots, no matter what they're driving.

And that may include you. You may be suffering from internet road rage. Wake up and take a hard look at your own gene pool.

Snapdragon
13th Feb 2013, 22:57
Milo,
You seem to have issues, I never said I obstruct bikes as a matter of routine. I just object to having to be seen to pull over when I and a bike want to overtake on the same small bit of road and I hold my ground as I'm in front!

david1300
13th Feb 2013, 23:04
Geez, Snapdragon - bad hair day? You've really got your panties in a knot :uhoh: As a biker and a driver, I find that a little courtesy goes a long way. As others have pointed out, letting a bike past is no hardship - in no time he/she is past the next vehicle, and you have your position back in the nose-to-tail traffic.

But be careful out there - side mirrors are easily removed 'accidentally' on the way past if they are not being used by the drivers and are deemed surplus to requirements :p

Milo Minderbinder
13th Feb 2013, 23:07
Me issues?
I'm not the one suggestion running someone off the road.
I'm just suggesting that you're in no position to judge what a bike is capable of in terms of acceleration. If the way ahead was clear enough for you to overtake, then you should already have done it. The fact the bike is trying to overtake you proves it wasn't, and that you haven't. Therefore you've no complaint against the biker: he's doing something you can't. Trying to obstruct him is simply being wilfully dangerous.

Milo Minderbinder
13th Feb 2013, 23:08
"side mirrors are easily removed 'accidentally' on the way past "

thats really what panniers are for.....

ShyTorque
13th Feb 2013, 23:13
Before threatening violence, one thing you might like to consider...bikers very often don't ride as singletons.

I know of one case where an angry car driver decided to try to catch up and knock a bike rider off. He was suddenly surrounded by the other hundred or so bikers who were following. He didn't win the argument. :)

G-CPTN
13th Feb 2013, 23:22
Letting motorcyclists past avoids all the aggro suggested above.

Motorcyclists (apart from the smallest) have (much) faster acceleration than most (if not all) cars, are narrower and much more manoeuvrable than cars.

In all my years of motoring (starting as a motorcyclist) I've never had hassle from a motorcyclist (apart from the Danish speedcop who followed me for several miles at speeds over the ton before giving me a lecture rather than booking me).

Let them go - and they're gone - end of hassle . . .

I usually get acknowledgement of my consideration.

FullOppositeRudder
13th Feb 2013, 23:32
It all comes down to co-operation with other road users. That is, we all help each other out to get to where we want to go - safely and with as little delay as possible.

This co-operation can be seemingly stretched sometimes by motor cycle riders simply because they have the power and acceleration (and SA) to grab a passing spot where few cars could hope to pull it off safely. Heavy transport drivers have the 'authority' of sheer size and mass to make their point. When I am pedal cycling I have none of these so called advantages. I am the bottom feeder, I know it, and I position myself on the road accordingly.

It is true that quite a few motor cycle riders act in a way which make many of us others cringe. But then again, I see the same with cyclists and (dare I say it) the occasional motorist as well.

One very interesting exercise is to evaluate just how little time you actually gain simply by overtaking the vehicle in front of you only to go one further ahead in the queue; and how much you stand to lose if you get it wrong and become the first on the scene of the accident.

Patience, co-operation and forgiveness are essential ingredients for safe driving, riding and walking. If you are wronged, take a few deep breaths, relax and promise yourself that you will never do anything as silly as that. Put it behind you and get on with the rest of your life.

fleigle
13th Feb 2013, 23:45
I have been riding and driving now for over 52 years.
I learned to ride in the same part of the UK as Tony Draper and G-CPTN, and learned to appreciate the vulnerability of two wheels on constantly slippery road surfaces.
I now live in Northern California, which is a motorcyclists heaven.
I am still a fast driver and "biker" and am constantly amazed at how most "box" drivers are totally unaware of what is going on around them, some of them seem to never look in their mirrors.
The worst kind are the drivers who think that being passed is a challenge to their manhood, or that they are the absolute arbiters of "the truth" of road useage, with the outlook that "I'm doing the speed limit so YOU are not getting past me".
When I am driving on our local, winding roads and a bike comes up behind me I move over and let them pass, no big deal, I would appreciate the same courtesy.
Here in California "lane splitting" is legal, and in commute hours most drivers are aware and courteous, keeping their "scan" going and moving over to allow their fellow biker commuters a smooth, and faster, commute.
However, after the morning commute the older crowd get on the roads and thats when it gets to be a bit hair-ier.
Share the road, be courteous no matter what you are riding/driving.
Be safe.
f

chuks
14th Feb 2013, 00:41
I was on the famous Autobahn one day, in the wife's little BMW 318i. That model only had about 103 DIN horsepower, so that once it reached full chat it was a good idea to try and keep it there; acceleration above 100 km/h was leisurely.

I lined up a pass on a little Fiat from a long way back, with a single headlight in the mirror a long way back from us. Of course it was a boxhead on a BMW K100RS, and he was not a happy bunny, having to slow from his Vmax to our Vmax, a difference of, ooh, 25 km/h, for as long as it took me to pass that Fiat.

Much flashing of the BMW's headlight ensued as I simply went about my lawful business, navigating the passage of that little crapbox in the righthand lane. Then I set the blinker and pulled back over myself.

Herman the German then pulled alongside, into our ten o'clock, and commenced peering over his right shoulder while shaking his left fist at us. Of course, this meant that the moron was giving a subtle tug on the righthand grip, so that his bike was drifting slowly to the left at something like 190 km/h.

I directed the wife's attention to this display of advanced riding. As we both watched, his machine drifted to the very edge of the pavement, which, luckily for him, happened to have some sort of clever German striations that sent a warning vibration through his bike's bars.

Then Herman's head snapped around into the direction of travel he had been ignoring and his bike gave an almighty ragged weave that nearly had him off then and there. Then they both disappeared at a rate of knots, rearwards. When I checked the mirror he was pulling off, and if had to guess, I think a change of underwear might have been next on his personal agenda.

Milo, old fruit, if you want to pick a fight with something that weighs far more than both you and your bike, well, good luck with that! I ride more than I drive, and I try never to get into a quarrel with anyone, especially White Van Man.

The driver will have to tell his story to a sympathetic cop, how you came out of nowhere at some insane speed, when he tried but failed to get out of your way. Then he will have to buff the scratches out that came from punting your foolish, overoptimistic self into the bushes, while you will be taken to either the hospital or the morgue. Or were you just so incredibly awesome that nobody ever thought to pay you back? Uh-huh....

Milo Minderbinder
14th Feb 2013, 00:54
chuks

I agree, the guy in your story was a fool
But then what you described is a habit typical of many germans on the autobahn - not just of german bikers

to answer your question - no, no-one ever tried it. I was careful to ensure lessons were taught at places where there was no risk. No, not awesome, just aware of the situation on the road

Loose rivets
14th Feb 2013, 03:55
Barry Sheen told the story on telly of when he was a London courier. He said he had a tennis ball in a sock and used to boing it on folk's roofs if they annoyed him. I was told it was an odd kind of tennis ball, made of a material somewhat more massive.

While emulating the police technique of locking onto the rear quarter and making eyeball contact, a couple of time someone stuffed their car into the gap on my left. One time, a bloke I knew had just come out of the pub, had a four-year-old boy on his lap, with his little hands on the wheel. How cute, thinks I. Not.

What people still don't get is the incredible acceleration of modern bikes. That is anything under 25 years old. The Honda Fireblade is really nippy - 60 in first comes to mind. Certainly all the nation's speed limits busted by a good margin in second gear. Even my Suzuki 1100 was swift, the throttle just granting magic wishes. 'I want to be there. Ooooo, I am. How'd that happen?'

Here in California "lane splitting" is legal,


I was astonished to find some places banned the passing of - even stationary - cars. Such a waste of motorcycle thinness. Switzerland was the first I heard of, but Texas is the same. Barmy. Mind you, daft buggahs with silly bikes, riding with their hands a foot above their heads - probably should crawl around at old lady speeds. Old ladies have to protect their hairdos, and Harley riders have to keep their beards from becoming unkempt.


One is going to put on a helmet and hide.:p

Slasher
14th Feb 2013, 05:52
Around these parts our more stupid bikers are culled
through Natural (and the odd Artificial) Selection.....


0mFkDJ0rpWA

easyriding
14th Feb 2013, 07:04
Now don't get me started on cyclists :E

Motorist claims he was threatened by group of cyclists during road rage incident in Brisbane.

A WITNESS to the fiery encounter on Wednesday between a driver and cyclists in Brisbane has laid the blame squarely on the horn-happy motorist.

Snapdragon, you don't perhaps drive a 4wd around Brisbane, do you:p

Motorist claims he was threatened by group of cyclists during road rage incident in Brisbane | The Courier-Mail (http://www.couriermail.com.au/news/queensland/motorist-claims-he-was-threatened-by-group-of-cyclists-during-road-rage-incident-in-west-end/story-e6freoof-1226577414306)

MagnusP
14th Feb 2013, 07:36
Used to have bikes, now just cars.

I have NEVER in my 43 years of driving one or the other heard of the concept of performing violent acts in self-defence at not being able to overtake. WTF does that mean?

Alloa Akbar
14th Feb 2013, 07:43
Here in the UK we have a fairly robust rider training scheme Slash, so most of us are a little less likely to end up in an asian paella.

As for Snapdragon

Milo, You seem to have issues And you mate sound like a BMW driver! I am a rider / driver like many of the lads on here.. Given that the bike needs a lot less room and time to overtake than your car, simply sit back, let the bike go and accept his wave of acknowledgement in a gentlemanly fashion, then proceed with your own overtake when conditions allow. No stress..

To paraphrase Rob Smedley from Ferrari F1 team "The bike is faster than you, do you understand"

Don't feel bad about having conceded your ground to a biker, it doesn't make your dick any smaller, your girlfriend will think no less of you.. its just called road sense.. After all, ask the bikers on here how many times they have had to apply extreme evasive moves to accommodate some arrogant myopic dick head of a car driver..

Windy Militant
14th Feb 2013, 08:01
And don't forget the Motorcyclist might be on his way to work...............

as a HGV driver !:}

Solid Rust Twotter
14th Feb 2013, 08:55
Haven't driven a bike for years and quite happy to acknowledge them as they pass with a leisurely lift of my mug of tea in salute. I get out of their way when I see them coming and try to give them space in traffic.

However, when in heavy traffic and stopped with pretty much nowhere to go, I object to the lane splitters who swear and gesture at people to get out of their way, while banging on panels or kicking doors. I'm guessing they would move if they could, so a little patience is advisable.

Oh, and please bear in mind that getting in front of my 30 year old pickup and dabbing your brakes while swearing at me over your shoulder for not getting out of your way fast enough is a very Darwinian thing to do.

One of the hardest people I know is a biker. He's also probably one of the most polite. There's no reason for bikers or motorists to act the t**t to show how weak they really are.

Alloa Akbar
14th Feb 2013, 09:33
Just watched Slashers video again, and tried to count up the number of accidents which were NOT attributable to the disorganized chaos which seems to reign in many south east asian cities.. 2 maybe?? We just don't drive / ride like that here (Generally speaking).

probes
14th Feb 2013, 09:49
If someone needs to go - let them go. What's the point of hampering anyone? The couple of minutes at stake?

A A Gruntpuddock
14th Feb 2013, 09:56
"If the way ahead was clear enough for you to overtake, then you should already have done it."

Ignores the fact that a biker sits higher than most car drivers so has a better view over hedges, other cars, etc.

Slasher
14th Feb 2013, 09:58
2 maybe??

Quite a few more than that Alloa - you need to view it a couple of times.

cattletruck
14th Feb 2013, 10:02
The issue is the attitude rather than the number of wheels. Truck drivers and cyclists suffer the same kinds of hassles from car drivers. Sadly the modern corporate flunkies of the world are becoming more selfish and bainless at the same time, and for these shallow try hards to share is to be seen as a loser.

It used to be that whenever you saw a fat hairy biker race up behind you, you let him through. Today some people just don't get it, and probably never will.

pvmw
14th Feb 2013, 10:34
Reading this thread, a few observations……………

Having spent the last 35-odd years saying what a stupid form of transport a bike is, and you’d never get me on one, I had a mid-life crisis a couple of years ago – and now have four.

As an enthusiastic motorist (to the extent of holding a national A race licence) and fairly recent convert to bikes, I can see it from both perspectives. It is true that as a car driver, one cannot really comprehend just how quick a bike is in comparison – even fairly middle of the road ones like mine. You need to have been there to appreciate it. I used to comment on – to me – insane overtaking manoeuvres. Sometimes I still do, and there is certainly a class of biker out there who appear to have a death wish, but I’d suggest the great majority of bikers are very aware of their vulnerability and ride accordingly. I think there are many more bad car drivers than bike riders, self-preservation is inclined to restrict the numbers of the latter.

A car driver who has never ridden a bike cannot really understand how vulnerable a biker feels – esp. I traffic. Make a slight misjudgement in your car and its likely to be a dent, a few words and an insurance claim. Make the same misjudgement and involve a bike and unless he is lucky it’s a visit to hospital and potential serious injury or death. Many – not all – car drivers are not aware of and make no allowance for bikes. I do filter in traffic, but I keep the speed differential low and expect that no car driver will bother to look for me before changing lanes. The bikers who filter at speed are asking to be hurt – I suspect in many cases they aren’t car drivers and don’t appreciate it from the drivers perspective. It’s no good saying “he should have seen me” from a hospital bed, bikes filtering at speed are not easily seen in door mirrors.

Dickheads exist on bikes and in cars – a good example of the latter being those who see a filtering bike and intentionally move over to block his passage. And yes, it happens pretty frequently on my commute to work. I’ve never taken the door mirror off someone doing that to me, but I’ve been tempted – its is pure, bloody minded selfishness “I can’t move, so I don’t see why you should”. Another thought for the car driver stuck in traffic. A study was done a couple of years ago which established that the presence of bikes in a queue of traffic makes almost no difference to how long the queue will take to pass, i.e., the more commuters who change to bikes the faster the traffic flows, so all car drivers should be encouraging bikes, as it reduces their commute time as well.

One more observation. I drive in Italy quite a bit – and everything said about the Italian motorist is true. Except – they are generally very good with bikes, both aware of and giving space to. I think this is because every Italian teenager rides a bike/scooter, so when they do progress to a car they’ve seen it from the point of view of the bike. Perhaps two years on a bike should be compulsory before graduating to a car licence (with another 2 years driving an Austin 7 – to learn patience, mechanical sympathy and what it’s like not to have any brakes)

david1300
14th Feb 2013, 11:47
pvmw :ok::ok::ok: Very well made points.

vulcanised
14th Feb 2013, 11:54
If you guys can get this steamed up over a discussion in here, I hope I never meet you on the road.

ricardian
14th Feb 2013, 12:19
http://sphotos-f.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-prn1/529464_309068655862985_1533639655_n.jpg

skua
14th Feb 2013, 12:56
Fortunately round my way the problem is solved by having special lanes for motorbikes. They are in the middle of the road, and covered in white hatchings.

Unfortunately most of the users are a little short of the milk of human kindness.....

Alloa Akbar
14th Feb 2013, 13:54
Cagers may as well suck it up.. here in good old blighty "Filtering" between lanes of traffic at safe speed with a 1.5m gap between traffic IS legal.

There are Police officers on these forums whom I am sure will confirm this.

Loose rivets
14th Feb 2013, 14:48
special lanes for motorbikes. They are in the middle of the road, and covered in white hatchings.


That's just what someone on two wheels needs.:ugh::ugh::ugh::ugh:

G-CPTN
14th Feb 2013, 15:35
Car driver, not a motorcyclist:- Coventry hit-and-run video: CCTV captures toddler hit by car | Metro News (http://metro.co.uk/2013/02/13/police-release-cctv-footage-of-toddler-mowed-down-in-coventry-hit-and-run-3474386/)

ShyTorque
14th Feb 2013, 20:06
WRT consideration for others - I use motorways and A roads a lot. If another vehicle comes up behind me in an obvious hurry, there is no way I'd try to prevent an overtake.

Reason? Consideration for others.

I'm not a traffic policeman, although I've been involved in a lot of vehicle pursuits and arrests in my past - so why should I have any right to prevent or hinder any other driver or rider?

A couple of times in my life I've been in a situation where getting from A to B as fast as possible was hugely important, at least to me. The most memorable was when my son was critically injured in an accident; the police woke me at 3 a.m. to inform me that my presence was required at a hospital 35 miles away ASAP. They asked me if I was sober, I confirmed I was alcohol free and they told me to drive to the hospital as fast as I possibly could.

I knew the route very well and I drove there no slower than 80 mph and often well over 100 mph. I wasn't going to stop for anyone and I'm not too ashamed to say it. I knew of one speed camera on the open road (60 limit), I went through at well over 100 and heard nothing about it - it was of miniscule importance compared to my son's life. :O

These days, as far as I know, any driver or bike rider rushing up behind me might be in a similar situation to the one I found myself in that night. My "driver's ego" just isn't important enough to try and play traffic policeman, by getting in their way.

In fact now I've grown up a bit I try to leave my ego behind when I drive, it does help prevent anger issues.

G&T ice n slice
14th Feb 2013, 21:03
what really, really gets me steaming: "L" plate or obviously relatively newly licensed bikers who plod along at the correct (legal) speed ....
...and sitting 1 foot out from the curb!!

I sit there in my crappy ovloV screaming at them "get into the middle of the lane you dimwits" and hanging back far enough to stop when they hit the badly-built drain, the collapsing manhole cover etc etc.

That and the idiot bikers who insist on hurtling along without their "running" lights on - they must know that they're 1/3rd the width of a car, and almost invisible? mustn't they??

ExSp33db1rd
14th Feb 2013, 21:18
Motor bike Headlight question ?

I've always ridden with my headlight on, but now it is mandatory in New Zealand.

Previously it didn't matter if the bulb failed in daylight and I didn't notice it, tho' I do tend to notice things like that at night, but now it does. PC Plod is unlikely to believe that I haven't just turned the switch on as he approached with outstretched hand to stop and apprehend me as a law breaker.

So ... I now drive with my headlight on full beam at all times ( except at night) on the assumption that if the light fails then the little blue main beam indicator light on my handlebar console will also extinguish, i.e. if the blue light goes out my headlight has failed, but am I correct in this assumption, nobody here seems to be able to tell me, and I'm not going to smash a bulb to find out, I'll just put up with the fingers and horns of passing cars, tho' the ones that drive straight at me are a bit of a worry - for them I do operate the dip switch ! for the rest - tough.

broadreach
14th Feb 2013, 21:38
So where's Snapdragon?

Snapdragon
14th Feb 2013, 21:53
Still here watching how things develop!

Snapdragon
14th Feb 2013, 21:58
My hangover has gone now too!!:}

Milo Minderbinder
14th Feb 2013, 22:26
Have you checked your mirrors and lights today yet?

Snapdragon
14th Feb 2013, 22:30
All still intact!!

Cacophonix
14th Feb 2013, 22:34
Give respect to the Angels and laugh at the Bandidos! ;)

There are idiots out there whatever chariot they ride.

Caco

Milo Minderbinder
14th Feb 2013, 22:34
OK, we'll try harder for you next time. You did say it was a pink Renault Clio didn't you?

Tankertrashnav
14th Feb 2013, 22:40
This is a genuine question from a non-biker.

On the rare occasions I am behind a bike (eg he/she can't overtake the vehicle in front of us) I notice that about every seven seconds the biker looks downwards and backwards at something around the rear wheel. I've calculated that on an average trip this must mean they are not looking where they are going for at least 10- 15% of the time.

My question is - wtf are they looking at :confused:

Snapdragon
14th Feb 2013, 22:46
Caco- absolutely right!

Milo, you stated earlier that you set out carrying a masons lump hammer for unforeseen occurrences! That tells me you are/ were one of the undesirable type of biker. Going out equipped for a fight! I have never deliberately obstructed a bike, I always pull in to the left and let them get past if I can, but in lighter traffic if I stay in position ready to overtake, why should I be abused? If I always give up I will never be able to overtake. If bikes are so quick(I know it's obvious I'm not a biker) why does it make such a difference if I delay you by 30 seconds! If you can overtake in a heartbeat what does it matter? If I always have to pull back and let the bike master race take priority then my 10 second overtake opportunity takes 15/20 seconds and doesn't happen! Just my opinion !

Milo Minderbinder
14th Feb 2013, 22:48
TTN

generally they are looking at you - behind

bike mirrors don't give a good rearward view and its imperative to keep turning your head to see whats behind. Some look over their shoulder, some find it easier to look down and twist at the same time - or on some bikes look under the armpit
it may appear that they're looking at the wheel, but in fact they're stealing a quick glance behind in the most comfortable way they can

Milo Minderbinder
14th Feb 2013, 22:55
Snapdragon

the defence was required against idiots who deliberately refused to allow overtaking, and often manouvred to block the road. Unsafe bigoted dangerous fools. Your comments rather seem to put you into that category.
Either you can overtake or you can't. If you can't, then get out of the way of those who can.
As to the abuse, yes, you can have idiots riding or driving anything. But if you are regularly on the receiving end of such abuse, then you must be doing something wrong. Time for a refresher course maybe?

cattletruck
15th Feb 2013, 04:25
Meanwhile....

whilst in deep slumber in the middle of the night, snapdragon slips into dreaming....

As he's tootling along the country side in his pink Renault Clio on the way to lord Percy Thickb'strd's house with Jimmy Saville blaring aloud from the radio, a bunch of fat hairy bikers race up from behind him. As a road tax payer snapdragon thinks he has every right to exercise his privilege of staying in the middle of the road. This upset the fat hairy bikers who have been riding a full 10 minutes and were now busting for a smoko, so they pull out their mason's mallets and start thumping snapdragon's car. Snapdragon rises up to the challenge and starts to swerve left, then right, then left again, but he can't knock any of the now more aggravated fat hairy bikers over who begin thumping his pink Renault Clio with their mason mallets more vigorously. Snapdragon needs to think fast and calmly as the intensifying thumping drowns out Jimmy Saville's dulcet tones, then he gets a bright idea, he puts his foot down on his pink Renault Clio.... nothing happens.... the pounding of those mason mallets continue. Snapdragon eventually concedes and slows down and pulls over to the side of the road.... but the pounding of those mason mallets continue.

Will snapdragon ever get another chance to listen to Jimmy Saville again?

good spark
15th Feb 2013, 06:52
well done cattletruck thats brill.

Lon More
15th Feb 2013, 06:55
but I heard he drives a Bentley!!

Bentley, Volkswagen? What's the difference?

Cattletruck - sounds like a good idea for a video game.

BANDIT12
15th Feb 2013, 06:59
In the rare occasions I am behind a bike (eg he/she can't overtake the vehicle in front of us) I notice that about every seven seconds the biker looks downwards and backwards at something around the rear wheel


Its called a Life Saver, it covers the blind spot in the rear view mirror. Taught to every advanced rider and CBT er.

Krystal n chips
15th Feb 2013, 07:17
" On the contrary - the tools were required for defensive purposes when idiots like yourself attempted to stop others from overtaking. They weren't there to attack, but merely to defend against those who felt they had a sole right to the road"

Followed by :

" Unsafe bigoted dangerous fools. Your comments rather seem to put you into that category. "

Petard hoisting springs so readily to mind does it not?.

Tankertrashnav
15th Feb 2013, 09:35
Thanks for the answers. As a non-biker I hadn't realised that bike mirrors didn't really give a decent rear view. With all the amazing gear on modern bikes, and the cheapness of electronics these days, sounds like a rear facing CCTV cam and a small screen to replace the mirror would solve the problem.

SealinkBF
15th Feb 2013, 09:49
I used to work in a travel agency in a touristy place.
The bikers were always the nicest, politest customers!

Alloa Akbar
15th Feb 2013, 10:05
TTN - The Lifesaver is standard procedure for bikers in the UK and failure to execute lifesavers appropriately during your test is a fail. The bike test is getting more stringent here in the UK and rightly so.. After all, any dummy over the age of 21 can do a week long course, having never ridden before, pass a test and then jump on a machine with performance greater than most exotic hyper-cars.

£5K easily buys you a bike that does 46 mpg, 0-60 in less than 2.5 seconds without the need for a gear change, and a top speed exceeding 200 mph. That said, most people who start riding are scared fartless of that kind of power, and also of the dangers presented by other road users. You learn to ride a bike, or drive an HGV and you will be taught to drive defensively, learning to drive a car, you are treated as the primary road user with little regard paid to the characteristics and behaviours of larger / smaller vehicles.

Shytorque is right, on a bike, or in a car, leave your ego at home, you'll live longer.

FullOppositeRudder
15th Feb 2013, 10:11
In the rare occasions I am behind a bike (eg he/she can't overtake the vehicle in front of us) I notice that about every seven seconds the biker looks downwards and backwards at something around the rear wheel
He /she may be checking just how close you are. Some bike mirrors are these perverse convex things which make accurate judgement of distances quite difficult.

And without making any kind of judgement on you in this respect at all, may I relate one of my biggest frustrations when I am out for a run on the motor bike.

What really gives me the squirts (metaphorically speaking) are the box drivers who persist in sitting about a car's length behind me - even at the open road speed limit.

Not only do these turkeys apparently fail to realise how quickly a bike can accelerate, they also appear to have no concept of how quickly a bike can stop if the rider has to.

If you are tailgating another car and become part of a chain collision, it's probably unlikely that anyone will be killed. If you run up the exhaust pipe of a motor bike you've probably killed the rider or maimed him / her for life.

As a said - not a reflection on the person who posted the question - just a personal gripe which I need to share.

But then you all knew that anyway.

MagnusP
15th Feb 2013, 10:16
Either you can overtake or you can't. If you can't, then get out of the way of those who can.

Don't know about you, but I, like most other drivers, am happy to allow a bike or any other vehicle to pass AS LONG AS I CONSIDER IT SAFE TO DO SO. Damned if I'll tolerate your demands if it means putting a wheel in a pothole, driving too close to a farm gate when I can see a tractor approaching (I've almost been caught by forks not elevated which would have taken my passengers legs off), or endangering other road users.

"I want past and I want past now (dummy spit!)" ???

You'll get past as soon as I deem it appropriate. The Highway Code states "Overtake only when it is safe and legal to do so". That means safe for other road users, not just for the childishly impatient.

pvmw
15th Feb 2013, 10:24
You'll get past as soon as I deem it appropriate. The Highway Code states "Overtake only when it is safe and legal to do so". That means safe for other road users, not just for the childishly impatient.
...and therein lies your error. "..I deem it to be appropriate" It is not for you to decide when it is safe and legal for a bike to overtake - its up to the rider of the bike. if you don't ride, you have no concept of the performance available, and are in no position to make that judgement. The rider of the bike has, and if it is his assessment that it is safe for him, then you shouldn't be obstructing him.

As a driver and a rider, I see bad and dangerous bike riders - but I see far more bad and dangerous car drivers. Often it is just ignorance, as was very well put a few posts ago bikers are taught to drive defensively - car drivers aren't. Your average bike rider is likely to be a much better rider/driver than your average car driver - for a start, the great majority ride because thay want to and it is a lifestyle choice. The majority of drivers have no interest in driving per se, and just view it as a means of getting from A to B with as little inconvenience to themselves as possible.

Alloa Akbar
15th Feb 2013, 10:39
Don't know about other bikers, but every time I get on the bike, I have a very healthy inner fear that I am going to get killed.. It influences the way I ride and the judgments I make along the way. That fear isn't there in a car.

It isn't just a biker thing though, its about different perspectives of different road users, get out of your car, ride a push-bike, motorbike or drive a truck, you will become a more tolerant car driver when your perspective broadens.

FullOppositeRudder
15th Feb 2013, 11:07
Yes - I'd go along with that - I think my wife probably does too. She doesn't say so, but after 45 years I know the look.

I've slowed down a bit in the last six months, mostly after driving over the same winding roads in the car about 20 - 30 kph slower than I once did it in the bike and reflecting on the consequences if the unexpected had jumped out in front of me at that time.

Last week a bloke was killed in Oz when his motorbike collided with an emu. I'm much more worried about a chance meeting with a kangaroo. Not a nice thought at all.

Perhaps I'm just getting old. :rolleyes:

MagnusP
15th Feb 2013, 11:11
You're wrong there, pvmw. I deem it appropriate when it is safe for ME to position the car in a suitable way. I'm not going to risk my suspension, my passengers, myself or pedestrians to save any other road user a few seconds. As soon as I can safely leave space without those risks, I do. However, that's for me to decide, not the would-be overtaker. It is, of course, for the said overtaker to decide whether he or she can pass safely. I'm not going to inconvenience any other road users, including the biker, if I can safely help it.

It is not for you to decide when it is safe and legal for a bike to overtake - its up to the rider of the bike

Nor is it for the biker to decide when it is safe or legal for me to move aside - it's up to me.

Petulant nonsense like Either you can overtake or you can't. If you can't, then get out of the way of those who can has no place on the road.

Alloa Akbar
15th Feb 2013, 11:22
To be honest, you can bat these points back and forth all day, we all use the road, so you drive considerately, or you act like you own the road and drive like a prick. Its a conscious decision either way.

pvmw
15th Feb 2013, 11:45
You're wrong there, pvmw. I deem it appropriate when it is safe for ME to position the car in a suitable way............
Whether or not you position the car in what you consider to be a suitable way is neither here nor there. There is only one person who is responsible for the decision as to whether it is safe to overtake or not - and that is the one doing the overtaking. No-one ever suggested you should drive through potholes to convenience me. Let me remind you what you said,

You'll get past as soon as I deem it appropriate.

No. It isn't your decision. I'll get past as soon as I deem it appropriate. There is no way I'm going to rely on you to make the decision for me. I take enough on trust to assume you (and that is a universal "you" directed at other motorists, not a personal one) aren't going to arbitrarily swerve across the road because a) you haven't seen me, b) you are changing a CD/texting your mate, c) don't like bikers, so I'm not about to rely on you to tell me when its safe to pass. For sure, if you are a good driver you can help me by giving appropriate signals - road position, look over your shoulder to make it clear you've seen me etc. and if the standard of your driving gives me confidence that I can trust you then I'll take that into account - but the decision is mine alone.

I agree with Alloa Akbar about the healthy inner fear. Bikers make a conscious decision to ride a bike, and take responsibility for their own actions and decisions. Its dangerous out there - not helped by (some) car drivers who seem to think that anyone on two wheels is a lower form of life. Not many bikers "take out" car drivers. Unfortunately, the converse cannot be said. I won't deny there are aggressive and dangerous bikers out there, but the sensible thing is to leave them to it - eventually it is likely that chicken roosting time will arrive. At least a stupidly dangerous biker is likely only to hurt himself, the equivalent in a car can do much more damage.

chuks
15th Feb 2013, 11:49
Milo and his lump hammer: He stated that he used to ride bikes. I take it that he drives cars now. If anyone has a problem with his attitude, well, he's not a biker!

A pink Renault Clio: It outweighs all but the fully-dressed Honda Gold Wing, the one you need an HGV licence for. Get into a shoving match with a Clio when you are on any other bike and you shall come off the worse.

Aggressive bikers 1: Often it is just a matter of time before fate catches up with them, so that either they crash or else someone dots them in a needless physical altercation. That should be your cue to just get out of their way and let them pass, on their way to that last encounter, the one that finally teaches them to behave properly.

Aggressive bikers 2: I ride more than I drive, but I ride a BMW, so that I, too, have the occasional encounter with some rude clown. You will often notice these guys know how to ride fast, but not particularly well, so that when it rains I often pass them. Funny thing, that.

Aggressive bikers 3: The Hells Angels and other outlaws. They are "bikers," not bikers or motorcyclists, and not even non-conformists as they like to style themselves.

If you have a problem with a "biker" or "bikers," send a PM to Milo and ask him to come around with his lump hammer and sort that out for you. He can go out in the shed to first find and then blow the dust off his Fizzy, pump up its tires and then deal with him or them the problem "biker" or "bikers" most harshly, be assured.

Do not attempt to do that yourself.

I would do that for you except that I usually am kept very busy organizing my sock drawer when it comes to that sort of thing. A BMW rider needs a properly organized sock drawer; don't ask me why that is.

MagnusP
15th Feb 2013, 12:04
You're not reading, pvmw. I expanded on my original post by trying to make it clearer, and stated:
I deem it appropriate when it is safe for ME to position the car in a suitable way

You then added:
There is no way I'm going to rely on you to make the decision for me.

Right back at you.

pvmw
15th Feb 2013, 12:15
er.... you said

You'll get past as soon as I deem it appropriate......

When/if I overtake will be when I deem it appropriate. The decision isn't yours. Can't be clearer than that.

Halfbaked_Boy
15th Feb 2013, 12:38
pvmw is spot on regarding whose decision it is to overtake.

Personally, if I'm going for an overtake it means there is enough room.

If you decide to move over, it's not necessary but does make me feel safer, so thanks :)

Halfbaked_Boy
15th Feb 2013, 12:47
Another one is on the motorway -

If I'm driving my car and I see a motorbike approaching from behind (presumably in the offside lane to my own), and there is no traffic near me in the nearside lane, I'll usually subconsciously move over to the left of the lane. Just gives somebody that little more room.

Another way I look at these situations (and driving in general) is that it is a continuous system of maneuvers. It is up to us as individual drivers and humans to make our own decisions, but for a system to work as well as it can, requires the participation of all constituent components. Therefore in any given road situation, if I become a part of it (voluntarily or involuntarily), I will try to do the best job I can to help it flow smoothly.

Look at it logically, single carriageway road, overtaking situation... Ideally the vehicle being overtaken and any oncoming vehicles would move closer to the side of the road to allow the overtaking vehicle passage. It can never work like this because we're not mindreaders, but that would be a perfect situation, regardless of distances involved.

MagnusP
15th Feb 2013, 13:06
pvmw, neither you nor Milo are getting this, are you? I've said consistently that I will not obstruct other road users who wish to overtake if I can make it safely possible. That's safely for me, mine, my property, not for someone who demands then get out of the way as Milo did. If someone wants to carry a hammer to wreak petty revenge on those costing them a few precious seconds, then I'd prefer they be miles down the road, thanks. Overtake whenever you like, safely or not. I'll make it easier if I can, I won't endanger the lives or property of others in order to do so.

I rode bikes for years, I know how frustrating it can be, but the "get out of my way" attitude pisses me off. A boot or a hammer to my tail-lights? Yep, got a scare, involuntarily twitched the wheel, officer.

Krystal n chips
15th Feb 2013, 14:30
The bikers anthem.....apologies to all serious bikers and lovers of the track in question...however, this did seem rather apt for those who, ahem, define attack as defence.....most of us, after all, only carry a wallet in our pockets...:E

Born to Clean Tiles (Born to be Wild parody) - YouTube

Or this perhaps ?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Aku1XE5wHMY

G&T ice n slice
15th Feb 2013, 15:24
Bikers:

when you come up behind the tatty ovloV V40 crappy estate (americans Station Wagon) driven by some old git with a collie as passenger, please

DON'T SIT 6 INCHES FROM MY BACK BUMPER IN EXACTLY THE ONE AND ONLY POSITION WHERE YOU ARE COMPLETELY INVISIBLE IN ANY MIRROR.

I'm driving an ovloV - they are heavy and built better than most brick sh*t-houses and I am pretty sure I WON'T notice when you hit me & fall off your bike.

p.s. and whilst you ARE sitting there in the blind-spot please take note of the scratches & gouge-marks on the driver's-side rear wingpanel just below the level of the rear light cluster. And think to yourself, how did he get those on the car?

Captivep
15th Feb 2013, 15:46
At the risk of upsetting a lot of bikers can I make the slightly tongue in cheek suggestion that if I'm driving down a single carriageway road at 60 mph then you have absolutely no reason or right to overtake me...;)

Seldomfitforpurpose
15th Feb 2013, 15:56
Been driving cars for almost 40 years and rode bikes for quite a few along the way. The notion that a grown man would actually set out on a journey dressed and equipped to damage is simply beyond me, deranged or what!

And as for kicking in your tail lights then speeding off, who cowardly is that.....

36050100
15th Feb 2013, 16:04
At the risk of upsetting a lot of bikers can I make the slightly tongue in cheek suggestion that if I'm driving down a single carriageway road at 60 mph then you have absolutely no reason or right to overtake me...

You're sort of right Captivep. A biker (or anything else) has no reason to overtake if you are constantly and consistently driving at the speed limit. Thing is, in your car you will need to brake sooner for, and will accelerate more slowly away from bends and you might find a biker comes past perfectly legitimately you whilst you're doing either of these things, and I know you wouldn't want to make it more difficult for him/her to do this, would you ?

Lon More
15th Feb 2013, 18:05
If someone, b e it biker, car or low-flying aircraft comes storming up behind me I normally get out of the way. Who am I to come between him and a speeding ticket or his next accident?

Milo Minderbinder
15th Feb 2013, 19:28
a few years ago around here, the local newspaper recited the tale of an incident in which a car driver was headbutted by a biker through his window.

Strange you may think. And on reading the story it became even stranger.
To paraphrase what the motorist told the paper, he was driving along and saw a motorcycle approaching from behind at what he considered excessive speed. So he took the decision to slow the bike down by weaving across the road repeatedly. The road in question is a decent two-lane reasonably straight route running along a hill ridge, with decent visibility. However the car driver decided it wasn't safe to allow the bike to pass, and did his best to prevent it. Despite his best (?) efforts the bike got past and accelerated away, only to stop at the next crossroads, where the rider awaited the car.
Where he had a jocular conversation with the car driver and then head butted him, still wearing his helmet. Broken nose and glasses if I remember the story correctly, and in my view well deserved.

Thats the kind of fool that bikers often have to deal with, and who often need informing as to the error of their ways.

Milo Minderbinder
15th Feb 2013, 20:00
reread my first post

"The display or use of both usually brought reason to those idiots who tried to race a bike, or obstruct it"

now try to understand the meaning of those words within the context of what I last posted. Especially when in your first post you described motorcyclists as "arrogant narcissist to##ers", which rather leaves one to the conclusion that you are in fact someone whose attitude to bikes is likely to cause significant risk to other road users.

Loose rivets
15th Feb 2013, 20:09
At the risk of upsetting a lot of bikers can I make the slightly tongue in cheek suggestion that if I'm driving down a single carriageway road at 60 mph then you have absolutely no reason or right to overtake me...


That might be true, but the law is absolutely clear. You must not willfully impede the other driver. It is not your job to enforce the law.


Rider's overtaking position:

I learned a lot from riding with some off-duty guys. I questioned why sometimes they'd slow down to overtake a car - often locking onto its speed on the rear quarter. "I didn't feel comfortable (about the car's body-language) and I waited until I had eye contact in the driver's (wing) mirror.

It's something I adopted and used for many years. However, some folk really did not know what was going on and still reacted badly to the intrusion into their space. The thing is, that position gave a line to accelerate past should the driver stand on his brakes. Concentration at that point is absolute, and every twitch of the car means the rider has to respond and perhaps change strategies. It was a very exciting and indeed rewarding period being with those guys. They were all zero accident drivers/riders and you could see why.

It must nearly be time for this sad old git to get his photies out. Just memories now. Despite one of my pals still owning a Fireblade, I think I'll resist all temptation to ride again, though sitting on it a while back did squirt a bit of chemistry around me system. :E

Milo Minderbinder
15th Feb 2013, 20:20
"The police would probably call that carrying an offensive weapon!!! "

no - that was the bit of duplex chain in the other pocket

gileraguy
15th Feb 2013, 22:38
This thread seems to undermine the old post "accident" (read collision) refrain often heard by injured motorcyclists of:

"Sorry mate, didn't see ya..."

If you can see them coming from behind, you can see them all the time!

A good rider will have a paranoid opinion of car drivers and prevent them from killing themselves, it's THEIR responsibility by god. Their seperation from other traffic makes them more visible and safer, that's why they surge off the lights, not cause it's great fun!

And if you see a bike coming up behind and you want to overtake, PLEASE ignore them. (That way when you're pulling back in from the overtake, I get to pass you and swauvely click up another cog when I'm right next to you....)


Only the Suzuki GSX 1300R Hayabusa could do 200mph out of the box and the new ones don't even do that anymore, but the Suzuki GSXR1000 can do 164kmh in FIRST gear at redline.

Hayabusa is Japanese for "peregrine falcon", a bird that often serves as a metaphor for speed due to its vertical hunting dive, or stoop, speed of 180 to 202 miles per hour (290 to 325 km/h), the fastest of any bird. In particular, the choice of name was made because the peregrine falcon preys on blackbirds, which reflected the intent of the original Hayabusa to unseat the Honda CBR1100XX Super Blackbird as the world's fastest production motorcycle.

In 2000, fears of a European regulatory backlash or import ban led to an informal agreement between the Japanese and European manufacturers to limit the top speed of their motorcycles at an arbitrary limit.

The conditions under which this limitation was adopted led to the 1999–2000 Hayabusa's title remaining, at least technically, unassailable, since no subsequent model could go faster without being tampered with.
Thus, after the much anticipated Kawasaki Ninja ZX-12R of 2000 fell 4 mph (6 km/h) short of claiming the title, the Hayabusa secured its place as the fastest standard production bike of the 20th century.This gives the unrestricted 1999–2000 models even more cachet with collectors. source Wikipedia

mini
15th Feb 2013, 23:03
A good rider will have a paranoid opinion of car drivers and prevent them from killing themselves

Sadly that also applies to car drivers these days, spotty 17 year olds (emotional age) are driving cars with power to weight ratios that would have won a world championship not so long ago. Add in the drugs etc. and you have a lottery on the way to work.

I know. Got smacked head on one morning by a f*ckwit texting.

Evidence at his inquest was that he was stuffed with all kinds of chemicals, probably from the night before.

He lost his life, I lost a 4x4 and a few hours at work.

ChrisJ800
16th Feb 2013, 10:35
Ive been riding for >30 years and only been wiped out by a car once. That was in London. I made the driver drive me home as he had made my bike unrideable. Turned out he was a Nigeria Airways DC10 captain (I was a lowly PPL back then). He was a bad driver at least at driving on the left.

Krystal n chips
16th Feb 2013, 11:51
Ah ! not one but now two contenders for the "JB, Hoisted by their own Petard" award of the year....


" I just said 'Whoa man, if I was married to an ugly fat cow like that I would be an angry man too' then blew off and left him there with his wife screaming at him and kids crying in the back seat.

If that was you snappy or Magnus I am not sorry, merely sorry for all you dull souls that feel you have the need to express yourselves like a ignorant t0ssers. "


Worth reposting this I feel in view if the sentiments expressed.....:D :E

Biker Baby: Born to be Wild! - YouTube

Cacophonix
16th Feb 2013, 11:56
Krystal, HD only hoisted his flag to the mast. Sounds like a good bloke and a decent biker to me... or at least 99% of the time anyway! ;)

Black Sabbath - Killing Yourself To Live - YouTube

Caco

Krystal n chips
16th Feb 2013, 12:06
Relax Caco.....the lead contender is ahead by a couple of furlongs at least.;)

Nice track btw..:ok:

Cacophonix
16th Feb 2013, 12:15
Krystal just don't get me going on cyclists! There aren't enough petards for me to hoist myself on! :ok:

There is an on-going war between skate boarders and everybody else in places like Cape Town.

Feed the Fire - Glen Road - YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?annotation_id=annotation_414440&feature=iv&src_vid=Wt_ZL6rWHLA&v=52V6rGddV24)

Caco

MagnusP
16th Feb 2013, 12:32
FFS, HarleyD, when have I ever indicated that I would wilfully obstruct another road user?? My position has consistently been that I will make space for another road user when I consider it safe for ME to do so, not them, that's their call. If I am in front of a biker who wants to overtake, I will facilitate that whenever I can, but not at risk to me, my passengers, my car or pedestrians. I'n trying to make it safer and easier for the biker, not obstruct them. Get it?

Anyone who swerves all over the road to stop someone passing deserves all they get. I've suffered that both on bikes and in the car.

chuks
16th Feb 2013, 12:35
In Germany there are a lot of Roller, scooters restricted to 80 kmh. One fine day I was out on my BMW R1100S, "the superbike of choice (for your grandmother)," when three young ladies on Roller slotted in behind me from a side road.

We went on into Verden as a flight of four, the girls following me a bit too closely, so that I simply left some extra braking room in front of my bike.

In town, one of them overtook me on the right and then slotted in just in front of me. Completely illegal, but cheeky and highly amusing to her mates. I could see them laughing.

My wife had borrowed my lump hammer. I didn't ask, but I think she had been having some problems with bikers, since, yes, she drives a BMW.

So hammering my new friend's tiny lumps was "out," otherwise I would have done that, my usual way of coping with people who annoy me. What I did do, though, was that I drifted over to the edge of our lane, and overtook her on the left! Not quite as completely illegal, perhaps not even illegal at all, and highly amusing to me. She never thought of that happening. Then she, good little German that she was, pulled back alongside me, into my 2 o'clock, to gave me a very serious look. (Now, we were traveling at a walking pace in a small town in heavy traffic.)

There was a taxi just in front of her, though, one that hit its brakes just then because of a pedestrian. My little riding companion, just a beginner, hit the taxi's rear bumper with a thump, since she was totally focused on giving Grandpa the laser beams, and never noticed what was happening right in front of her. Me, I saw her, I saw the taxi, and I saw the pedestrian the taxi driver braked for too; it was something to do with Situational Awareness, I guess.

The taxi stopped. I put on my turn signal and peeled off to the left down a convenient back street, still at a walking pace, leaving her and her friends to try to explain to the taxi driver that this was all the fault of the mean old man on the BMW, as I am sure they sincerely believed it was. I had no wish to become involved in that sort of thing, since the German cop might have taken a dim view of me picking on a little girl.

Dunky
16th Feb 2013, 13:52
Some interesting posts here. I think some people are talking at cross purposes here and not really understanding what others have said.

What seems to be the problem with a lot of car drivers, (and it's mainly them), is a lack of interest in driving, awareness of other road users capabilities and vulnerabilities, and consequences of their own actions.

The area I live seems to be populated by the worst drivers in the UK. Examples include people rarely indicating, especially at roundabouts, pulling out in front of you on roundabouts having seen you, changing lane without looking or indicating, and when turning right at a junction using the right hand side (i.e. the wrong side) of the road to turn. Tailgating in residential areas with a 30mph speed limit is very common, and seems to have increased in recent years. It doesn't matter what your driving or riding, even in a large silver car people still seem to take no notice.

Some people just seem to get a driving licence, forget everything they've been taught, (the very basics), and go on their merry way doing whatever they like. E.g. what is it with people and their lights. It's pretty simple after all, when it's dark put your dipped beam on, not just your side lights or fog lights, or both dipped and fogs. The clue is in the name"fog", and if there isn't any, don't switch them on. Also check your lights, if it seems a bit dim in front of you because you only have one light working, change the blown one. The amount of cars around that have no light working on one side is amazing, you don't know if it's a motorcycle or car with one light coming towards you.

Anyway, I seem to have drifted from the OP. When I'm on my bike and wish to overtake traffic, I do it when it's safe, for everyone, I don't expect anyone to move over so I can do it, though if they do I give a courteous wave of acknowledgement. On a 1000cc bike I don't need much room to overtake, something a lot of car drivers don't seem to appreciate.

G&T ice n slice
16th Feb 2013, 14:17
A Vulvo driver may try to run you over at a cross road

Try driving an ovloV, they're big, heavy and (mine at least) underpowered and visibility is .... well not wonderful and we really DO try not to kill you, but pulling out to turn right (UK, so over the road, eg turning left in the rest of the world) is a nightmare - the road is clear and you move forward but you couldn't really call it acceleration, unless you are talking inches-per-year, and then a biker arrives travelling as they ALL do without exception at (shall we say) a teensy-weensy bit over the sensible/legal limit and then everyone's rather unhappy....

but racing is not usually in their repertoire.

BLOODY RIGHT - did you know that ovloV drivers have special forms to fill out giving the date, time, location (designated public highway) & direction of travel to make an appointment to overtake any other fast-moving vehicle like fully laden artic going uphill on a 17% gradient, or a tractor hauling 40 tonnes of silage?
Has to be filed in triplicate with the appropriate constabulary 48 hours in advance (wonderful this internet thing, because it used to be 30 working days) and then carried in the vehicle displayed on a special holder in the windshield.

Goodness gracious me it sounds as if I think ovloV's are crud

BANDIT12
16th Feb 2013, 16:38
did you know that ovloV drivers have special forms to fill out giving the date, time, location (designated public highway) & direction of travel to make an appointment to overtake any other fast-moving vehicle like fully laden artic going uphill on a 17% gradient, or a tractor hauling 40 tonnes of silage?
Has to be filed in triplicate with the appropriate constabulary 48 hours in advance (wonderful this internet thing, because it used to be 30 working days) and then carried in the vehicle displayed on a special holder in the windshield.


In the early 90s i had a black 740 turbo and it went like the proverbial sh1t off a shovel. I also think the cops used the T5 as a dressed and undercover chase car. Not as fast as a Blade though!

Milo Minderbinder
16th Feb 2013, 17:00
Snapdragon
You don't get it do you? I never said I went out to intimidate and terrify. What I did was carry protective measures for use against those car drivers who seemed to want to attempt to kill me through their driving style.

Krystal n chips
16th Feb 2013, 17:12
" .I never said I went out to intimidate and terrify. What I did was carry protective measures for use against those car drivers who seemed to want to attempt to kill me through their driving style."

I am sure the police would have been delighted to hear that concept, or rather philosophy....

Erm, you don't drive a JCB for a living by any chance ?....I only ask because you clearly have some expertise in excavation on here......:p

wings folded
16th Feb 2013, 18:41
I tootle along at the legal speed limit, perhaps in a convoy of similar vehicles, or perhaps relatively alone.

I see a bike in my rear view mirror gaining ground on me suggesting that he is a little bit above the legal limit.

I used to wonder why two wheels gave a permit to ignore speeed limits, but perhaps because of age/maturity/senility, I no longer bother about these thoughts.

If it seems safe to me, I edge sideways (often with a quick indicator signal) to allow him (perhaps her) to pass because I am not responsible for speed limit enforcement and because I prefer an impatient driver of whatever vehicle to be ahead of me, where I can read the road ahead, rather than behind me where my scan is less frequent.

Very frequently I get the wave of the foot acknowldgement for what is for me not much of an effort.

If they get caught in a radar trap, that is their problem.

I do not expect that I will have my car coshed by an irate biker if I follow these simple rules. I do not expect to find my windscreen or boot of my car adorned wth his entrails either.

Drivers of cars often forget that they have no exclusivity on the tarmac; animals, cyclists, bikers, pedestrians have just as much right to be there.

But, of course, I have little sympathy for a biker equipped with pre-emptive retaliation equipment.

Milo Minderbinder
16th Feb 2013, 19:31
I don't think you'll find anyone disagreeing with that, foldie

As regards the "retaliation" equipment.....just think of it as analogous to an american carrying a gun "because the bad guys have one". In this case, the "bad guys" weapon is a car.
And no - I'm not suggesting that all car drivers are bad. Just some who have a tendancy to put motorcyclists at risk, through ignorance, stupidity, incapabability or in some cases pure malevolance.

AlpineSkier
16th Feb 2013, 19:50
Milo

I have to say that I think your posts make you appear like a violent moron, but that is not my main point. Just by being a regular poster and reader I feel that over the past few months your posts have become much more violent and I did in fact make a comment about "numerous regular posters " and their posting attitudes a couple of months ago and you were one of two I had in mind without naming .

If things are running away from you, time to ask for help maybe ?

ChrisJ800
16th Feb 2013, 20:00
When biking which is most days, 2 types of cars make me extra cautious. Small hatchbacks driven by young females who seem more interested in txting or looking at themselves in the mirror than at traffic around them. And cars with highly tinted windows so you cant see the driver. Especially here in Oz if its a new V8 pickup truck (ute) with tinted windows, keep well clear. :ugh:When I was young I used to wack side mirrrors of cars that pissed me off (just enough to move the mirror, not to break it). Now I just swear to myself. :mad::mad: I wish all drivers were made to do a riding course too. Im off for a day of bike touring now.:)

Milo Minderbinder
16th Feb 2013, 20:22
" I feel that over the past few months your posts have become much more violent"

Really? Maybe all these pro-gun lobby posts and threads are having an effect.....?
Social conditioning at work?