PDA

View Full Version : North Korean Nuke


sitigeltfel
12th Feb 2013, 07:50
So, Kim has let of one of his firecrackers. Apart from spouting a lot of wind and pish, what will the Western leaders do? Having to look over their shoulders at China will be a deterrence to any meaningful action.

SOPS
12th Feb 2013, 08:05
The next question is, what will the west do if Kim mounts his firecracker on top of one of his rockets?:sad:

dat581
12th Feb 2013, 08:13
If he is silly enough to test launch a nuclear tipped missile into the northern pacific all bets are off. Reaction could range from hot air to turning North Korea into a glass waste land.

500N
12th Feb 2013, 08:20
A quiet word with China.

I think they want to contain NK although sometimes
i wonder if they do much any more or even try to
control them.

IMHO, better to get China to do something than the
west have to do it.

AtomKraft
12th Feb 2013, 09:00
To answer the OPs' Q.

Nothing,

cattletruck
12th Feb 2013, 09:17
With NK's missles having a less than 50/50 chance of success I reckon China may not even have to lift a finger.

Fox3WheresMyBanana
12th Feb 2013, 09:26
NK is China's annoying cousin. As long as he's just shouting his mouth off (again), the rest of the World will tolerate China's support "'cos ee's faaamly, innit?".
If NK actually does something stupid, the world will blame China, and China knows that.

Solid Rust Twotter
12th Feb 2013, 09:50
With any luck a couple will cook off on the TEL and do the job for us.

air pig
12th Feb 2013, 10:46
Every body focusses on the fact that he has missiles and nukes, but can he marry them together, not at the present with any reliability. But, put it into a freight container, surround with a water jacket and a skim of lead to defeat scanners. load it onto a ship and loose the documents a few times, it arrives from being machine parts to car tyres for instance. Container arrives at for instance San Francisco and some watching for the glorious revolution pushes the button and hopefully 'phut' but what if it goes BANG.

Difficulty, who do you blame was it Iran, NK, Pakistan, China or a false flag operation. You enemies enemy may still be your enemy.

Fox3WheresMyBanana
12th Feb 2013, 12:41
never mind machine parts; shouldn't be at all surprised if an NK nuke turns up in a Tesco Ready Meal.

oicur12.again
12th Feb 2013, 14:05
NK probably doesn't have the technology or skill to build a nuke.

There is a lot of reason for them to convince the west they have nukes and very little reason to actually have them.

This fake test, like the last, is nothing more than an attempt at leverage.

But the west loves to go along as it provides justification for leaving troops in Japan and SK in preparation for the next big thing.

and it aint NK.

rgbrock1
12th Feb 2013, 14:14
We don't know for a fact whether or not NK has the technology or skill to build a nuke. We should believe that they do.

This was not a fake test. It was real and was recorded by seismographic equipment in the region.

NK is a rogue regime. They're now even thumbing their noses at their benefactor i.e., China. Until the latter has had enough and "convinces" NK to behave itself. Or else.

tony draper
12th Feb 2013, 14:23
Another website claims the yield estimated betwixt six and seven kilotons,takes a lot of chemistry to make a bang that big, but it dont take a lot of physics.
:uhoh:

rgbrock1
12th Feb 2013, 14:26
IF the yield was 6-7 KT then that would be 1/2 the amount the U.S. dropped on Nagasaki. In other words, still enough to do some serious damage if unleashed in anger.

B Fraser
12th Feb 2013, 14:39
shouldn't be at all surprised if an NK nuke turns up in a Tesco Ready Meal.

Does that mean that it would cook itself ?

AtomKraft
12th Feb 2013, 21:48
At the risk of stating the bleeding obvious......

NK has set off three. We in the rest of the World? Thousands.

I don't think NK is really our enemy.
I think once they get a credible nuke- they can be sure that the US et al will simply leave them alone. Probably what they want.

I don't see them 'nuking' anyone. They'd just be wiped out.

Silly & a bit odd? Maybe.

Suicidal? Nope.

They'll soon be 100% sure NOT to have the US fcuk with them.

Not bad really- for them as well as for us.

Mr Chips
12th Feb 2013, 22:01
Heard somewhere today...

They had a nuke. They exploded it. Now they don't have it.

Where is the problem? :E

Turbine D
13th Feb 2013, 00:48
Where is the problem?
They come in six packs, a case if they can afford it...

brickhistory
13th Feb 2013, 01:25
Mr. AtomKraft,

Indeed.

The DPRK watched the West take time to gather forces against Saddam.

Twice.

Then use them.

They won't let it happen to them.

Although, the minor fact that nobody from the West wants to or has threatened to invade North Korea does seem lost on them.

But having gained admission into the "take me seriously club," it is making the West, especially the US, look foolish.

China will do nothing. It's not in their interests. They just don't want the hungry Korean hordes coming across their border. If it sticks a finger in Uncle Sam's eye, all the better.

pigboat
13th Feb 2013, 02:21
They still haven't figured out that when you join the nuke club, you go from a bystander to a target. On the other side of the coin, they watched Gaddafi give up his nuke research and saw what happened to him.

AtomKraft
13th Feb 2013, 08:19
Pigy

Au contraire.
They've figured it out correctly.
The US is a bully. They only push around countries that they regard as weak.

(l'll overlook their lack of success even with weak third world Countries for brevity. :ooh:)

A nuclear armed Korea will be left alone indefinately.

Do you think they'd have started on Iraq had the had nukes? Nope.

Has the same thought crossed the minds of the leaders of Iran? Yup.

Andy_S
13th Feb 2013, 09:15
I don't think NK is really our enemy. I think once they get a credible nuke- they can be sure that the US et al will simply leave them alone. Probably what they want.

I don't think anyone seriously thinks that the USA or any other western power is a threat to North Korea; as has already been noted, NK has a much bigger, stronger cousin living next door who you mess with at your peril.....

I see NK as being like one of thse annoying 10 year old kids who swagger round, glaring at adults and behaving as if they're 'hard'; you'd like to punch them to take them down a peg or two, but it's hardly worth the effort, and anyway you know there would be repercussions.

I don't see them 'nuking' anyone. They'd just be wiped out.

That makes more sense. If the North Koreans have the werewithall to build a nuke, you've got to assume there are people at the top of the regime rational enough to realise that actually using it against another country would be a game changing mistake.

rgbrock1
13th Feb 2013, 14:16
you've got to assume there are people at the top of the regime rational enough to realise that actually using it against another country would be a game changing mistake

Unless you think of yourself as a demigod. Like the Kim family does. Then all bets are off as to what is rational or not.

stuckgear
13th Feb 2013, 15:08
The US is a bully. They only push around countries that they regard as weak.




:zzz:

yeah... how the US pushes around the likes of Leotho, Botswana, Swaziland, Andorra, Monaco, Lichtenstien, Mauritania etc etc is just diabolical.


:hmm:

Andy_S
13th Feb 2013, 15:30
Unless you think of yourself as a demigod. Like the Kim family does. Then all bets are off as to what is rational or not.

I often wonder, though, how much power they really have? If one of them decided to change North Korea to a multi party democracy, would the military simply stand by and let it happen?

rgbrock1
13th Feb 2013, 15:38
The Kim family has as much power as the military is willing to allow them.

hellsbrink
13th Feb 2013, 15:54
True, rgb, but normally there isn't a population that is incredibly brainwashed into worshipping the Deities called the Family Kim.

How they would react IF the military took the final step is very much an unknown. They could support the Great Leader against the Yankee-supported attempt to destroy their world, they could support the military against the Evil Ones. They could also turn against both, knowing that things would be as bad with the military in control, there would still be the same deprivation they know they suffer from.

Get enough of these people, with enough of the military backing them as many would turn to be on the side of the uprising, and all bets are off IF the military made any sort of move. That's why I reckon the "status quo" is what the military want and always will, since, in reality, we all know they are the ones who control all aspects of the country including selecting the new figurehead.

stuckgear
13th Feb 2013, 16:25
what HB you mean stuf flike this ?..

In these visuals, we can see that North Korea is using their propaganda to hate the US and other democratic nations, even South Korea. This campaign effectively moved the people to be patriotic. Many people in the North Korea (I believe 40%?) cannot read. So, they use these visuals that gives the massage with least characters. People right away know what massages the pictures are showing.
http://www.personal.psu.edu/ybw5000/blogs/la101h/north-korean-propaganda-usa-11.jpghttp://www.personal.psu.edu/ybw5000/blogs/la101h/north-korea-propaganda.jpghttp://www.personal.psu.edu/ybw5000/blogs/la101h/north-korean-propaganda-usa-10.jpghttp://www.personal.psu.edu/ybw5000/blogs/la101h/NorthKoreanPropaganda3.jpghttp://www.personal.psu.edu/ybw5000/blogs/la101h/nk-poster-003.jpghttp://www.personal.psu.edu/ybw5000/blogs/la101h/ess_north_korean_130.jpghttp://www.personal.psu.edu/ybw5000/blogs/la101h/89.jpg

stuckgear
13th Feb 2013, 16:28
more here (and translations of previous)
Check Out These Twisted North Korean Propaganda Posters - Business Insider (http://www.businessinsider.com/kim-jong-il-kim-jong-un-north-korea-propoganda-2011-12?op=1)

rgbrock1
13th Feb 2013, 16:30
stuckgear:

If some media outlet here in the U.S. ever printed something like that, in reverse, the ACLU would be all over their asses, like flies on shit. :}:}

stuckgear
13th Feb 2013, 16:35
ahh the dream of some our *home grown* socialist komrades
:hmm:


This bomb is the product of the Americans. Every product of the Americans is our enemy. Get revenge a thousand hundred times against the Americans

http://static1.businessinsider.com/image/4e735a3e69bedd577d000030-590/and-the-creepiest-this-bomb-is-the-product-of-the-americans-every-product-of-the-americans-is-our-enemy-get-revenge-a-thousand-hundred-times-against-the-americans.jpg




Read more: Creepy Pictures From The Hidden 5th Floor Of A North Korean Hotel - Business Insider (http://www.businessinsider.com/photos-creepy-pictures-from-the-hidden-5th-floor-of-a-north-korean-hotel-2011-9?op=1#ixzz2KnlFNMUY)

brickhistory
13th Feb 2013, 17:15
The US is a bully. They only push around countries that they regard as
weak.


Seems an awful lot of other weak countries seem to like having us on their side compared to, say, Russia or China.

And being a "bully" is the reward for being first.*

Perhaps if you'd tried harder in school...



*although I dispute your characterizations. The US acts in its national interests. Just as every other nation on the planet does. The difference we get listened to.

thing
13th Feb 2013, 17:29
I just hope that we don't make the old mistake of thinking they have the same mindset as us. 'They won't/will do this because we wouldn't/would.' They appear to me to be as mad as a box of frogs.

tony draper
13th Feb 2013, 18:48
I think it was Newsnight that had series of reports from NK,they were given a fair amount of freedom to wander about,it was frightening listening to the people in the street they talked to,the entire population seem totally mindfecked.
Even Orwell could not have dreamed up North Korea.
:uhoh:

G-CPTN
13th Feb 2013, 19:58
It used to be Russia that the West despised:-
mN3z3eSVG7A
Zv13ZnkpWos

racedo
13th Feb 2013, 20:30
Although, the minor fact that nobody from the West wants to or has threatened to invade North Korea does seem lost on them.

Its a deterrent.

Which given that UK politicians are forever telling everybody that UK continuing to have nuclear weapons is as a deterrent then wonder what is the issue.

Lets face it North Koreans only ever invaded one country which makes them Pikies in comparison to some of the serial invaders.

Lonewolf_50
13th Feb 2013, 20:32
G-CPTN, you have a pretty short memory. We despised the Norkers plenty in parallel with having no love for the Russians.

You heard of the Korean War?
The USS Pueblo?
The infamous tree incident?

It's not an either or deal, sir. There are a lot of AND statements of combined loathing.

AtomKraft
13th Feb 2013, 22:05
I've often hear US citizens say that their widespread 'gun culture' promotes good manners.
There's a certain amount of truth there.

Similarly, posession of Nukes also promotes 'good manners', albeit on a larger, international scale.
No country with nukes has ever been subject to one of Americas pre-emptive actions- you know like Vietnam, Korea, Grenada, Somalia etc etc and so on ad infinitum.

No-one. Not the US, not China, no-one is going to mess with NK (or any other nuclear armed state). The stakes are simply too high.

Nations all over the world are beginning to realise, as they grow wealthier, and emerge from 'third world dom', that the key to national security is posession of nukes. And of course, a way of delivering them.

We know it. They know it. It's kept us safe and it will keep them safe too.

My money's on Saudi Arabia as the next nuclear armed state.

Anyone got a more likely candidate?

Venezuala??

racedo
13th Feb 2013, 22:16
My money's on Saudi Arabia as the next nuclear armed state.Bit late as they funded Pakistan ones so as to get their own.......................if media reports are to be believed:cool:

fitliker
14th Feb 2013, 02:30
Who is feeding this problem ?
If those who are sending Tribute in the form of AID stop sending Tribute the problem will disappear.
The more Tribute that is sent in the form of AID,fuel food and medicine,the more aggresive these lapdogs will get .It will not stop until those feeding the problem, stop feeding it.
Time to stop feeding the dog that bites the hand that feeds it.

West Coast
14th Feb 2013, 04:56
Amazed at the number of experts here who know what NK can and cannot build and what China will or will not do.

Something about keeping yer trap shut and keep 'em wondering rather than opening it and confirming it.

Lonewolf_50
20th Feb 2013, 18:40
North Korea: Making sense of North Korea - Chicago Tribune (http://articles.chicagotribune.com/2013-02-17/news/ct-oped-0217-chapman-20130217_1_nuclear-program-nuclear-test-nuclear-weapons)

Their motive is pretty consistent over the last few decades, as is the continuity of the ruling family.
From Mr Chapman's article, a concise summary on why North Korea will not be deterred anymore than Iran or Pakistan is, or was.
To begin with, it is small, poor, backward, short on friends and long on enemies. Those facts have always furnished excellent arguments for the security blanket offered only by the bomb.

But in this century, the incentive got sharper. In 2002, following the 9/11
attack, President George W. Bush described North Korea as part of an "an axis of evil arming to threaten the peace of the world." The other members were Iraq and Iran. The U.S. proceeded to invade Iraq to topple its government, and it called for "regime change" in Iran as well with some people in Washington favoring military action to bring it about.

The North Koreans had no trouble counting to three, and they didn't need a
map to see who might come next. Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld confirmed their fears with a secret 2003 memo, leaked to the press, endorsing regime change there as well.
They'll keep building, and then do as they recently did at the UN, and threaten the destruction of South Korea.

rgbrock1
20th Feb 2013, 18:44
Yes Lonewolf, N Korea will continue talking shit about the destruction of S Korea. (And the U.S. as well.) but would they ever actually do so? Me thinks not. For the simple reason that should they embark on the destruction of S Korea, N Korea will be reintroduced to the stone age.

Lonewolf_50
20th Feb 2013, 18:48
For the simple reason that should they embark on the destruction of S Korea, N Korea will be reintroduced to the stone age.
Better idea. President Obama wants to reduce US nuke arsenal. Rather than throw them away, I say reduce NorKers to stone age now, and avoid the inevitible.

Who's with me?

AtomKraft
20th Feb 2013, 19:14
'Who's with me?'

Well you're in Texas.......you should be able to round up some support. ;)

dead_pan
20th Feb 2013, 20:15
I wouldn't sweat about the North with its handful of mini-nukes. If they did look like they might try something then they'd get it big time. China would make an almighty fuss but would be privately relieved the refugee issue was sorted out once and for all.

As for some of the more fanciful predictions, I'm sure the world at large know all about their nukes so there's no chance they could sneak one out and set it off in Seoul or wherever. We'd know exactly where it came from.

Pakistan is where its at - much more worrying IMO.

con-pilot
20th Feb 2013, 20:17
Pakistan is where its at - much more worrying IMO.

Especially if you are India. :ooh: