Bob Katter Bill

[Tuner 2]

Katter takes aim at Qantas, Virgin in Australia (http://www.afr.com/p/national/katter_takes_aim_at_qantas_virgin_KphRbSAk9dAEp4CUO6uQGJ)

From the Financial Review
Andrew Cleary

Independent MP Bob Katter has introduced a bill aimed at curbing any move by Qantas Airways to send its operations offshore, which would have the effect of barring Virgin Australia and Tiger Airways from the domestic market.

Under draft laws proposed by the Queenslander on Monday, which have scant chance of being supported by either major party, an airline would have to be majority Australian-owned and conduct at least 80 per cent of its maintenance locally if it wanted to keep access to domestic routes.

While the Qantas Sale Act already requires that the national carrier remain majority locally owned, Virgin Australia’s listed domestic arm is now majority foreign-owned after recent stake purchases by Etihad and Singapore Airlines, and Tiger Australia is wholly owned by its Singaporean parent.

Virgin has agreed to buy a 60 per cent stake in Tiger’s local operations, though the competition regulator has raised concerns about the return of the domestic aviation market to a duopoly.

Under Mr Katter’s proposed changes to the Air Navigation Act, an Australian airline would also not be able to operate international services from the country unless it were majority locally owned – a provision that would not affect Virgin due to the corporate split that capped foreign investment in its unlisted international operations at 49 per cent.

Mr Katter on Monday told parliament his family were early investors in Qantas but now the company had "been taken over by a grubby little group of slithering snakes from Sydney" who were only interested in making money for shareholders.

"They are flogging off the airline, cutting the services to make themselves rich," the AAP news wire reported Mr Katter as telling the lower house.

The bill is the most recent attempt by a federal politician to place greater restraints on Qantas and its strategy of growing internationally through the Jetstar franchise.

Late in 2011, Qantas chief executive Alan Joyce warned the company would have no choice but to sell off the group in parts if independent senator Nick Xenophon was successful in introducing “protectionist” legislation relating to heavy maintenance, training, and the use of foreign cabin crew.

Qantas’ head of government and corporate affairs, Olivia Wirth, said Mr Katter’s comments were “inaccurate and misleading”.

“Qantas is already majority Australian owned, which is a requirement under the Qantas Sale Act, and does the majority of its maintenance in Australia,” Ms Wirth said.

Comment has been sought from Virgin Australia.

Under Mr Katter's bill, an airline would have to meet the definition of being an "Australian operator" to have access to domestic flights and ports.

That definition includes that the company be 51 per cent owned by Australian citizens or residents, and that all airline crew on any domestic flight be domiciled in Australia.

Qantas has foreign cabin crew bases in London, for long-haul flights to the UK on the mainline carrier, while its Jetstar franchises employ cabin crew across Asia.

"What it really says is that Qantas will stay as an Australian company, will be based here and those maintenance engineers and technical staff, they will be based here," Mr Katter said.

"So if a plane gets into trouble it can be fixed here and not keep flying until something terrible happens."

Debate on the Aviation Laws Amendment (Australian Ownership and Operation) Bill 2013 was adjourned.

With AAP

[teresa green]

Old Bob (the hat) is known for being good with a gun, but occasionally one has to agree with him. A old fashioned concept to be sure, but sometimes a old fashioned way passes what is good today. We would all love to see QF always settled in her own home, cared for by Australians for Australians, for most, QF is so much part of this country, they are joined at the hip, and cannot ever be separated. But Bob, I don't know how your gunna do it.

[AEROMEDIC]

"What it really says is that Qantas will stay as an Australian company, will be based here and those maintenance engineers and technical staff, they will be based here," Mr Katter said.

"So if a plane gets into trouble it can be fixed here and not keep flying until something terrible happens."


Maybe Bob will have better chances of success if he focuses on aircraft safety and lack of effective oversight by the regulator.

[bloated goat]

I heard him today. It was quite a deep and meaningful speech he gave about his concern about Qantas. Just a shame he was cut short by the Speaker. Vote 1 I say!!!!

[busdriver007]

Aimed right at the National's heartland and let's hope the left winged pinkies can't highjack the debate and do a Hanson......He has started his campaign early and he will have a lot of support.....very smart.

[Stiff Under Carriage]

…which would have the effect of barring Virgin Australia and Tiger Airways from the domestic market.

Am I the only one that didn't miss this effect?

[rocket66]

Bob will have my vote for sure. He's a wee bit of an unknown in federal politics but he cant do any worse than the turkey running the country at the moment. Go Bob!!!


Rocket

[Stalins ugly Brother]

Vote 1 Bob!

and Nick Xenophon!

The only two in politics that seem to have any idea what is going on with aviation in their own country at the moment.

[The Green Goblin]

Whilst a noble intention, the end result would be a domestic only Qantas with international code shares.

You can't compete with your hands tied behind your back and a rope around your neck.

Alan Joyce has the right idea. He's just going the wrong way about it. He is not the charismatic leader who can sell the dream to the staff.

Qantas international is screwed until it can compete on like terms with its competitors.

[Fliegenmong]

The current mob can't be trusted....the opposition, composed primarily of ex howard muppets, are not to be trusted.....

.......the man in the hat is talking to me.....and on some other policies as well.....This proposal shows some ignorance for sure, as does some others, but so do ALP policies, and LNP Policies, we all know how it's going to pan out, so what's to lose!!!???

[404 Titan]

Stiff Under Carriage


No you aren't the only one who noticed that. Any legislation that gives a company a monopoly of the domestic market is unacceptable. I'm a conservative but having flown Katter around quite a bit in the late 90's, all I can say is that he would be the last person I would vote for.


Posted from Pprune.org App for Android

[Stalins ugly Brother]

Qantas international is screwed until it can compete on like terms with its competitors.

What, like salaries from Lahore????

Alan Joyce has the right idea. He's just going the wrong way about it. He is not the charismatic leader who can sell the dream to the staff.


Really? The right idea?

He is one dimensional. It's all about Jetstar and cost cutting. He has dropped the ball and given all or most of the Qantas passengers to the competition, they are not even flying Jetstar.

He is a poor leader. To lead is to set an example for those you wish to have follow. His staff will never follow or support him. Anyone who can just shut down a business during a tantrum is not a leader, this will never be forgotten or forgiven by the staff.

Any legislation that gives a company a monopoly of the domestic market is unacceptable.

Totally agree.

[Fonz121]

LNP Policies

...bit of an oxymoron.

[qf 1]

Quote:
LNP Policies
...bit of an oxymoron.

and what would the Labor party be ?At least Katter is attempting to save engineering jobs.

[my oleo is extended]

You have to give the wily Silvertail an A+ for trying and actually giving half a toss about Australian issues whether he be right or wrong. Talk to a vast majority of his constituents, the bloke works hard, turns up in dusty town halls to face the community, doesn't demand business class airfares as the places Bob visits require a Robinson or a crop duster to get to, so to speak. No expensive wine and truffles, plus Bob deals with the real issues affecting the community, unlike the overpaid bureaucrat trough dwellers in Canberra. When do you hear the Gillard and Slugger NOT talking about leadership, spinning, lying and deceiving?? It's all about THEM and their desparation to retain their opulent taxpayer funded existence.

So whether a fan of Bobs or not, he has a go, right or wrong. Same goes for a number of Senators like Xenophon. Bob and Nick understand the Australian view of Qantas. It is part of our heritage, Hudson Fyshe created something that IS Australian, like it or not. People like Bob don't want to see that heritage become part of the history pages, something that QF's current managent and the spineless Liberals and Labor party couldn't give a stuff about.
Maybe it is time for Australians to take back Australia, considering the farcical job those at the top are doing?

[Hempy]

Can someone explain how this Bill would force a monopoly? It's just saying that in order to operate domestically you need to have your maintenance done domestically. I'm sure there are plenty of ex-Qantas LAMEs who would be happy for the work....

[pull-up-terrain]

Can someone explain how this Bill would force a monopoly? It's just saying that in order to operate domestically you need to have your maintenance done domestically. I'm sure there are plenty of ex-Qantas LAMEs who would be happy for the work....

Thats the way it should be. Domestically planes should be maintained in Australia and crewed by Australian based staff. Its probably a good thing that a bill something like this gets introduced before we see Jetconnect with NZ based crews flying domestic Australia routes and Jetstar Asia flying into Australia with low paid crew.

[Goat Whisperer]

Can someone explain how this Bill would force a monopoly? It's just saying that in order to operate domestically you need to have your maintenance done domestically. I'm sure there are plenty of ex-Qantas LAMEs who would be happy for the work....

Virgin is majority foreign owned and Tiger is presently 100% foreign owned. If His Bobness' Bill were to pass, they would be grounded, leaving Qantas (majority Australian owned as per Qantas Sale Act) the monopoly domestic service. Real smart!

Ready! Fire! Aim!

[anawanahuanana]

Great idea Bob.
In fact, while we're at it why don't we protect every other Australian business from that nasty, unfair foreign competition? Maybe you should draft a bill to prevent any Australian business at all from sourcing anything from overseas. Something like "if it's not grown, made, refined or extracted in Australia then it can't be sold to fair dinkum Aussie battlers". Hell, Aussie aircraft shouldn't be allowed to pick up fuel overseas either. They should tanker and keep supporting the Aussie fuel suppliers. Too far to tanker, well then you can't fly there I'm afraid.

I guess then seeing as we don't like what comes from overseas we really should stop exporting all of our best produce over there too. Wouldn't want to be hypocritical would we? What the hell, let's just close the borders completely.

I'm afraid we live in a consumer driven society. I really don't want to see any more jobs shipped overseas but companies should be left to make their own commercial decisions (good, or in QF's case, mostly bad) to a greater extent. If the public don't like those decisions, then they shouldn't give the company their hard earned money. If those decision lead to a incident or accident then the company will wear the fall out, both legal and PR from that.

Anyone that considers voting for Bab Katter based on this bill alone, without any regard to any of the other policies he claims to have, is an idiot in my opinion. Christ, if it only take one stupid promise to win a load of votes, I might get out of the airline game and get into politics myself. Vote for me and all airline employees will have their statutory 9% super lifter to minimum 15%. Sound good? Righto, lets watch the votes roll in now. No idea how to make the policy work or any regard for what happens afterwards in terms of commercial or employment fallout? Don't worry about that now. Bob certainly doesn't........

[my oleo is extended]

Well, Qantas is part of Australia's heritage and history and is as endeared as Vegemite and the Opera House.

Virgin and Tiger?? Give me a break, new kids on the block with no cultural significance.
All these airlines offer the same low budget service (incl QF). My point is more from a historical perspective. On that basis alone I would be happy to see QF supported, protected even shielded if you will. As for the others? Who cares...

[porch monkey]

Sure, as for others, who cares?....... Remember when it used to cost $400 each way ml-sy? Remember why? You'll care then, moron!:ugh:

[Anthill]

Part of aviation mythology according to Brett Godfrey and Richard B is that it always cost $400 to go ML-SY. Well, yes it did..if you paid for a full economy interchangable and fully transfereable fare. And that was the return fare!

You could always, always, get a much cheaper seat with conditions and limitations.

Them's the facts. The rest is marketing.:O

[Tangan]

"Who cares"???

I'm sure the thousands of workers who are employed by Virgin and Tiger care, they are after Australians who hold jobs.
While the majority of these airlines are not majority owned there are many Australian shareholders.Why should the minority overseas shareholders in QF be given protection while the minority Australian VA shareholders get wiped out.

I am all for protecting and maximizing Australian jobs but Bob's idea is way too simplistic.
He might like to look into the rights given to all those foreign Airlines which operate across the Tasman.

I love all this touchy, freely bullsh1t about heritage, stage coaches,steam trains and flying boats are all part of our heritage but they too left the scene when they were no longer viable.

[The Golden Rivet]

Well said Tangan! I Just wish Pprune had a like button:ok:

[Ixixly]

Guys and Girls, do remember that this bill being introduced by Bob Katter is so far a DRAFT to be debated to flesh out exactly the issues people here are bringing up. (AS is my understand of such things, I stand to be corrected as i'm not particularly savvy on how such bills come into being and are finally approved!)

As it stands, and as mentioned, Virgin and Tiger would be in some trouble, but I'm sure that Bob Katter wouldn't want to be the person who got all the Australian Staff working for them fired because they could no longer operate under the laws he is looking to introduce and as such would certainly be looking at the best way to make it work. Thusly why they debate such things and discuss and/or argue over the effects it would have.

Perhaps some of us are a bit quick off the hip by blasting this as being a bad idea when it really is still a work in progress.

[my oleo is extended]

Oops, I've upset the masses!!
Funny about $400 airfares one way, so you reckon we don't have that now? Sure, we have u beaut JQ Avalon to Hammo Island for $69 during winter and around the same price will get you a Tiger ticket from Melbourne to the Sunshine Coast, but try jagging a decent cheap Brisbane Perth flight, or say Cairns to Mackay or frigging Sydney to Hobart - Extortion! And Qantas Link is one of the worst offenders. However be that as it may, Tiger/Virgin/Jetstar, could all disappear and life would go on, same ol same ol, but if QF disappeared it would leave a gap in the Australian heritage whether people liked it or not.

Again I am talking about history and heritage, not service or fair prices. Katter is trying to protect that.

[unseen]

Well, Qantas is part of Australia's heritage and history and is as endeared as Vegemite and the Opera House.

Pretty sure Vegemite is owned by an American company......

[TIMA9X]

After all the typical one liners from Katter quoted in the AFR, here is what the now watered down bill proposal came out like...
https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-7OSCtpIfbK4/URnbZqVfFBI/AAAAAAAAAkw/14FbPwP8x30/s734/001-Katter-doc2.JPG

Guys and Girls, do remember that this bill being introduced by Bob Katter is so far a DRAFT to be debated to flesh out exactly the issues people here are bringing up. (AS is my understand of such things, I stand to be corrected as i'm not particularly savvy on how such bills come into being and are finally approved!)Fair comment, but I also agree with tangan,

I am all for protecting and maximizing Australian jobs but Bob's idea is way too simplistic.
He might like to look into the rights given to all those foreign Airlines which operate across the Tasman.I wonder if the proposed QFA/ANZ alliance was allowed to proceed a few years back, things may have been much better today for all concerned.. for me the ACCC made a big mistake back then, they did not predict the rise of EK , or more like, didn't understand it.

For all Katters weakness's on the above bill, at least his heart is in the right place, along with the only other politician in the country interested, Nick X...

[Fliegenmong]

The current mob aren't much too get excited about, and the likes of AJ & LC will be ever so pleased to see September 15 roll about, TA's bunch possibly hate hard working tax paying white Australian born and bred males more than the ALP do!!! Let's wait and see how much come their time to fiddle with IR.

'The Man in the Hat' allows me to vote for someone other than the main two parties of @rse clowns! :)

[moa999]

So Katter wants to immediately shutdown Virgin, Tiger and Rex, as well as grounding a fair chunk of Jetstar.

Create a monopoly for that fatcat board.... Just look at our airports, I am sure they will turn around and increase services and lower prices.

Mad Katter

[Hempy]

Goat Whisperer,
Thank you for the 'suck eggs' reply. Virgin, Tiger et.al. are foreign owned?? Who'd have thunk it!!
I'm pretty sure the Bill makes no single mention whatsoever about ownership, just where maintenance is carried out. If Virgin/Tiger etc want to operate here perhaps they might outsource that maintenance locally?? Heaven forbid!

[weighman]

Went to a Dick Smith store today to look at a Microsoft Surface tablet.
They didn't have one in the shop - should have asked for peanut butter.

Remember DS in CASA.......

Bob Katter saving aviation???? :confused:

[lemel]

My Oleo,

It is quite clear that you have your head up your azz! So if all airlines (except Qantas) closed shop, then according to you it's no big deal and life will go on. Do you think that it would be any different if Qantas folded? Let me tell you, life will still go on if this was to happen, like life went on in the USA when their treasured Pan Am folded, along with other countless airlines around the world.

To suggest it's ok for all other airlines in Australia to go bankrupt as long as Qantas remains so it doesn't create a "heritage gap" is completely idiotic. I don't want to see Qantas collapse, that would be a real shame. But they are a company and if they can't remain profitable then they will be history like so many other great airlines. I am pretty sure that we can all live with the "heritage gap".

On a side note, both Virgin and Tiger perform their maintenance in Australia. It's Qanats that is off shoring all of their flying jobs and maintenance. I think you will also find that although a company like Virgin isn't majority Australian owned, they are still creating many jobs for Australians (when is the last time Qantas recruited flight crew or engineers) and are even going as far as to integrate their pilots at Pacific Blue with the pilots at Virign Australia. Lets see your beloved Qantas do the same with their Jet Connect and mainline crew. I'm sure that will happen when hell feezes over!

:ugh::ugh::ugh:

[Typhoon650]

Bob Katter is a loose cannon and has achieved nothing of note in his entire political "career" except for some brief entertainment value and offending as many people as possible.
He only exists because the retirees want to hold on to a past which is much better in their memories than it actually was to live in.

[Qfeel]

Hey Bob! If you want everything Australian then should`nt we be flying only Aussie Jets maintained by only Aussie staff and spare parts sourced locally from our friends at Bankstown. Hang on... Boeing are all American and Airbus`s French, that would leave our Aussie airlines with how many aircraft in the fleet? I will bet my left one that even the mic that Mr Bob spewed this nonsense into was made in China. Mr Bob and the big Dick Smith belong in the same basket. Put your political a genders behind you and get real gentleman!!

[TIMA9X]

Went to a Dick Smith store today to look at a Microsoft Surface tablet.
They didn't have one in the shop - should have asked for peanut butter.

Remember DS in CASA.......Great point, :D Dick also supported QF management around the time leading up to the grounding in the press......

Bob Katter saving aviation???? http://images.ibsrv.net/ibsrv/res/src:www.pprune.org/get/images/smilies/confused.gif Yeah, he is a loose cannon, and what he is saying won't come to much but as I said before, his heart is in the right place.. I suppose we all just right him off along with Nick X

I just find it so sad that in 2013 we see what we as a nation were once proud of, (Qantas & OZ aviation) is now uncool... and it is OK to sell the farm to the cheapest bidder... and somehow expected to feel good about it..:O

In this clip, a great piece from a Alan Freeman SYD ATC who seems to be proud to share a bit of Australian aviation history (nothing to do with Katter but at a distance, related)


Sydney Airport Control Tower - Line Manager Speaks about his Job - YouTube

As an aside, DS stores where sold to a private equity firm by Dicks mates, Woolworths who couldn't make it work anymore.
Woolworths finds buyer for Dick Smith (http://www.smh.com.au/business/woolworths-finds-buyer-for-dick-smith-20120927-26mb0.html)

Anchorage Capital Partners Pty | NZVCA - New Zealand Venture Capital Association - Private Equity New Zealand, Venture Capital New Zealand, Company NZ, Finance New Zealand (http://www.nzvca.co.nz/members/private-equity/452-anchorage-capital-partners-pty/)

Par for the course these days I guess..

For this reason, I think some on here have been a little harsh on My Oleo..... he is entitled to his view...:sad:

standing by for incoming...

[Roger Greendeck]

The old saying 'The road to hell is paved with good intentions' was coined for situations exactly like this.

Companies are in business to make money no matter where the majority of shareholders hale from. As a nation we need to assess what we are prepared to pay for. If we want Australian airlines to employ locally there will be some costs attached but I'm sure people employed in other industries would be up in arms if their jobs were offshored like ours.

Aviation lends itself to offshoring but if you follow the logic there is no reason that all our TV shouldn't be produced in New Zealand by staff employed in New Zealand. That would keep the costs lower.

What about higher education. I'll employ my lectures in New Zealand and avoid paying super. They can do most of their teaching on line and I'll fly them over the ditch a couple of times a semester for lectures.

[chuboy]

Companies are in business to make money no matter where the majority of shareholders hale from. As a nation we need to assess what we are prepared to pay for. If we want Australian airlines to employ locally there will be some costs attached but I'm sure people employed in other industries would be up in arms if their jobs were offshored like ours.

Companies are outsourcing their IT and callcentre jobs overseas all the time, engineers are being flown in from overseas whilst thousands of willing graduates are waiting unemployed in the sidelines, virtually all of our manufacturing is done in China - pilots are not special snowflakes in this respect. If those industries are up in arms then either no one is listening, no one cares, or no one wants to pay extra to employ locals.

We don't need protectionism in our economy but we do need something.

[TheWholeEnchilada]

Read of section 3 "The Globalisation Disaster" (page 29+) in the paper Perfect Storm (http://www.tullettprebon.com/Documents/strategyinsights/TPSI_009_Perfect_Storm_009.pdf) by Tullet Prebon, a London wholesale broker (read insiders), not retail. It canvases many of these issues, as faced by the UK, but also the West more generally, and the likely outcome of these policies.

[pull-up-terrain]

Sure it might be hard getting the 51% australia ownership thing across (I dont care if the 51% australian ownership didnt get accepted). But i still like (well i want) the idea of airlines being able to operate domestically in Australia must have air crew based in Australia and have 80% maintenance done in Australia to get through parliament. That can only be a step in the right direction for saving Australian jobs in the aviation industry. It will give us airline employee's much more job security. Just as a LAME at Qantas it will save a lot of our jobs if this got introduced especially when the 787 eventually arrives to Qantas.

I would like the government to make it harder for 457 visa workers to get jobs in the aviation industry in Australia too.

[ampclamp]

Katter's bill is well intended but needs some extra tuning so as not to disadvantage any of the airlines in the immediate future.

It would be fantastic to have a majority of all airline maintenance done here but the operators that do not have much, or any local maintenance need to have time to set up. Incremental change and some carrots not a bloody big stick. You can't legislate to send someone broke, so the bill needs work, to make it work.

Saying all that, it is dead given neither of the majors would give Katter the steam off their droppings without being put over a barrel.

[Arnold E]

I would like the government to make it harder for 457 visa workers to get jobs in the aviation industry in Australia too.

Why just the aviation industry, I would like to see it harder in all industries, in fact, I would like to see it impossible.

[TIMA9X]

Pretty sure Vegemite is owned by an American company...... Only today Dick Smith switches his boot once again to the other foot...

Heinz is threatening to sue Dick Smith over claims made on his company’s beetroot tins.

The label says: ‘‘When American-owned Heinz decided to move its beetroot processing facility from Australia to New Zealand causing hundreds of lost jobs, we decided enough is enough.
‘‘So we are fighting back against poor quality imported product.’’


Read more: A beet-up? Heinz threatens Dick Smith (http://www.smh.com.au/business/a-beetup-heinz-threatens-dick-smith-20130213-2ecax.html#ixzz2KlWuRQK4)

and Kraft owns Vegemite... what's next.. UAE buys Qantas.....?:rolleyes:


good for the shareholders I guess...

If Qantas International doesn't get globalised wages it will go out of business.
That said, we can pay decent Australian wages to pilots - if they work the same number of hours in the cockpit as their Aussie pilot mates at Emirates, Etihad and elsewhere.
However, a greater percentage of cabin crew will have to be employed on global wages.

And while those employed in Australia to maintain its domestic fleet should be OK, an increased proportion of the maintenance for the international flights will have to be done offshore.
I have a number of aircraft and I have had to stop in Singapore and Dubai to have maintenance done.
The maintenance has been just as good - because the supervisors are Australian or are British. The actual workers are from the Philippines and they get paid roughly half the wage available here.

Dick Smith is a businessman and former chairman of the Civil Aviation Safety Authority

High-cost kangaroo of Qantas cannot continue, says Dick Smith | thetelegraph.com.au (http://www.dailytelegraph.com.au/news/high-cost-kangaroo-of-qantas-cannot-continue-says-dick-smith/story-e6freuy9-1226179961218)

[Managers Perspective]

I agree with other comments, why single out this industry?

Should you only be able to sell cars in Australia if they had 80% local content?

What about white goods?

Electronics?

Fruit and Veg?

Fuel?

Why should aviation be held back and restrained from keeping globally competitive?

MP.

[ALAEA Fed Sec]

We can be globally competitive here but it doesn't fit in with the master plan.

Why is our industry different? Because it helps support our country in times of crisis and war.

[weighman]

Introduction (http://www.dicksmithflyer.com.au)

Has anyone ever seen this?

I wrote to him back then about how ridiculous it was and still is. Statistics don't
seem to support his theory. Can't imagine how a FIFO worker would feel with this information.:yuk:

[greg47]

Dick is right .The article explains the realities of our unavoidable connection with the wide world.Just because i say so doesnt make it such of course .Ive had a commercial since 1967 and have seen the whole spectrum world wide .Im still flying a turbo prop for a low cost regional operator, having previously flown large jets on long haul operations.We could have a shoe industry or make clothes in Australia but would you really want to pay twice as much .The people who did had to face harsh realities after the propping up they received finally ceased.There are very few people who dont search for the cheapest convenient fair or the best value for money shirt or shoe, if they are paying for it themselves. Unfortuanately that is the way it is despite the hypocrisy preached.Competition is with us and like King Canute you cant turn the tide back you have to adjust

[teresa green]

True Greg, but ever since Keating brought in the level playing field, most of the stuff is crap. The MIA has lost most of the fruit farms, Fruit that was disease free, now you have to go thru the stuff in the supermarket to find anything grown here. Ditto Pork (Canada) They are allowing Beef back in for the first time since Mad Cow disease took hold, the paddocks are full of cattle why do we need to import? Anything you buy now lasts six months, before it either breaks or falls apart, and if you follow the instructions to put anything together you have to consult the six year old next door who can read Chinglish. Remember when shoes lasted, so did washing machines, stoves (now they rust as well) and a T shirt last about four washes then it looks like a duster. Its called progress. Why should Aviation be any different. At least Katter could see what a bunch of useless bastards the present Govt is, which is more than you can say about those other two self serving A$#@holes Windsor and Oakeshott. :ugh:

[Arnold E]

Why is our industry different? Because it helps support our country in times of crisis and war.

To be fair, there are many industries that do the same in times of crisis or war.

[RATpin]

But T.G., along with illegal immigrants from questionable backgrounds, it's a Fabians wet dream.

[Fliegenmong]

Yeah TG, but Windsor could also see what a self serving a$#@hole Abbott will be. :rolleyes:

I was out tinkering in the shed the day Rudd was knifed, tinkering about listening to parliament on the radio (regular ABC must have had the VFL or Abbo talk on or some such rubbish) ........ Anyway I listened to the Man in the Hat describe the ludicrous state of milk production in the country, and how 1000's of litres are trucked from the South to the North, and it occurred to me how utterly stupid this was (I don't know how true it all, was, assume Katter knows a thing or two 'Rural' though)

It was a good speach, I always thought the guy a loon......he's grown on me in sentiment, and policy, just needs some refinement

[mcgrath50]

And he has such nice people in his party too, I especially like their policies on who should teach our kids :yuk:

[teresa green]

Fleigenmong, if you knew the history of Windsor and his relationship with Abbott, you would have considered not making that remark. Windsor's history is well known, feel free to support him, I wouldn't. As for Katter, I like him, but not as a PM. They country is stuffed at the present time, with a bunch of morons "running" it. It is a democracy (at the present time) so we can all voice our opinion on Sept 14, should it last that long.

[greg47]

we are just casting our opinions of course.What i like is you have a choice.Remember if your old enough the old PMG(TG) which became Telstra when you could have a phone of any colour as long as it was black.How long would you wait for a new service.Now they would be around the next day.As for Abbott well look at the traction he has got exposing all that incompetence,then bringing down Rudd.The damage hes done to the labour product.As for our man Katter,hes a spoiler who will dilute the liberal vote it plays into labours hands,they would be rubbing there hands in glee ,he would come to a letter opening ,hes just a simplistic populist like our Pauline who Howard let just run out of steam ,as joe blow eventually saw what they were .Not like the scary fringe groups in Europe they tried to shut down which just fuelled the fire for 20 years.I like the nun who saw some trendy art exibition of a replication of the crucified Jesus(we dont have to include peace be upon him) in a glass case of human urine .Her comments were that poor artist that poor man he needs help so badly.And as for Windsor Abbott has his measure.We wont see him and his buddy Oakeshot after the next election.They would be as poular in there electorate with as much chance as that poor victim of a right wing conspiracy Craig Thompson.

[teresa green]

Yes, Greg, a interesting year for us all. And Aviation is right in the mix, what we would do to have Xenophon the boss. He seems to really nail it on the head, and actually acknowledges that the Pilots and Engineers are not necessary scumbags that live only to make more money, and deplete the airlines of theirs. This is going to be a great year for popcorn and a comfortable chair.:E

[Arnold E]

,hes just a simplistic populist like our Pauline

Hmmm, populist, I have often wondered about this term, doesn't that mean that something is popular?? I don't know, I am only a dumb LAME, but I would have thought that if it was popular, then the majority of people think that it is the way to go. Isn't that what we call a democracy?? Whether some people think something should not happen because they dont like it, or it is not politically correct ( the most likely reason) I would have thought the majority rules....... in a democracy. Dunno, just thinking out loud.:confused:

[ejectx3]

I'm with you Arnold

[greg47]

yes TG Xenophon i do like like him .He does hit the nail on the head