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Rail Engineer
10th Feb 2013, 18:56
Windows 8 - Am I alone in now detesting the very word ?

Bought my wife a new laptop which has to come with the Windows 8 system.

Two whole days spent trying to work through this absolutely user unfriendly and appalling system. :mad::mad::mad:. We are finding that new unwanted windows start up every so often without warning and seemingly uncommanded, probably not helped by an over-sensitive touch pad.

Why on earth do Microsoft have to **** about just as soon as they got 7 working OK ?

And what is worse is apparantly you cannot just remove it and install Windows 7 Grrrrrrrrr :ugh::ugh::ugh:

SASless
10th Feb 2013, 18:59
Best Advice I can give you.....throw that PC into the Trash Bin and buy a Mac!

Best thing I ever did!

In a few words....."Screw Bill Gates!"

500N
10th Feb 2013, 19:03
Rail

I use a Mac so am biased but from mates who use PC's / Windows,
all I have heard about lately is your Subject heading which sums
it up well.

As SaS said, buy a Mac.

radeng
10th Feb 2013, 19:04
Welcome to the wondrous world of Microsoft. Windows 7 and Outlook 10 give me enough grief....

The 1660 Book of Common Prayer (in the Burial Service) has it about right where computers and Microsoft are concerned:

"Man that is born of a woman hath but a short time to live, and is full of misery."

Sallyann1234
10th Feb 2013, 19:07
No need to be derailed by Window 8!

Take yourself off to Welcome to Classic Shell (http://www.classicshell.net/)

It's free and will allow you to replace the Windows 8 desktop with the Windows 7 or Windows XP start menu - your choice.

Dushan
10th Feb 2013, 19:11
Best Advice I can give you.....throw that PC into the Trash Bin and buy a Mac!

Best thing I ever did!

In a few words....."Screw Bill Gates!"

Fully agree. It started with my wife's office, then I got one so I can help them, if needed. Turns out the stuff just works. No support needed. Best thing I ever did. Should have done it years ago. The only Windows machine I still have is at the office and even that can be replaced with my iPad 80% of the time.

Milo Minderbinder
10th Feb 2013, 19:29
my favourite bookshop has a couple of books waiting for you

9781118271674 Windows 8 for Dummies Book/DVD Package Bundle : COMPUTER BOOKS - Computer Manuals (http://www.computermanuals.co.uk/scripts/browse.asp?ref=274900)

9781119941552 Windows 8 For The Older And Wiser : COMPUTER BOOKS - Computer Manuals (http://www.computermanuals.co.uk/scripts/browse.asp?ref=258767)

alas, they seem not to have any copies of

The Complete Idiot's Guide to Microsoft Windows 8 - Paul McFedries - Google Books (http://books.google.co.uk/books/about/The_Complete_Idiot_s_Guide_to_Microsoft.html?id=qdGj8MLFxT4C&redir_esc=y)

interestingly, its surprising how few books M$ themselves have released for Win8
not even an administrator kit or guide. This seems to be the only one
9780735663817 Windows 8 Inside Out : COMPUTER BOOKS - Computer Manuals (http://www.computermanuals.co.uk/scripts/browse.asp?ref=286589)
The last OS they did that to was WinMe - and we all know how well regarded that was as a product.
I'd hazard a guess that they already realise its a dog and aren't going to spend any money on it

Mac the Knife
10th Feb 2013, 19:45
As Sallann says, its actually not that bad providing you install Classic Shell

Welcome to Classic Shell (http://www.classicshell.net/)

Mac

:E

vulcanised
10th Feb 2013, 19:48
There are a lot of second user machines with XP on offer from various dealers.

stuckgear
10th Feb 2013, 19:53
i've rolled all mine back to xp pro. no problems.

FullOppositeRudder
10th Feb 2013, 21:20
They made a remarkably stupid decision with the new interface. Apparently, if you can ever get your mind to synchronise with this weird arrangement of cheap 'plastic' tiles, there's a workable computer hiding in there somewhere.

However it's not for me. Windows 7 is bad enough thanks - made tolerable with Classic Shell, but damn near impossible to use for anything out the ordinary.

If Micro$oft can't get their act together by the time I need to progressively replace my still working XP machines I'll go for Linux - probably Ubuntu which at least allows a certain amount of hardware flexibility. And when I want to configure a router or network or play amateur radio, I'll continue to use XP thanks. Quite simply, I will not buy a machine with Windoze 8 on it.

Try Classic Shell. It may just be enough to get you through the present crisis.

Sprogget
10th Feb 2013, 21:30
In my experience, it's usually the wetware rather than the software that fails to keep up.

bnt
10th Feb 2013, 22:21
Instead of paying through the nose for a new Mac, why not try Linux on the PC? Put Ubuntu on a USB stick (see here (http://www.ubuntu.com/download/help/try-ubuntu-before-you-install) for instructions), boot it up, have a play, and if you like it, install it to the hard drive.

If you have to have specific Windows applications, it's probably not for you, but if you're a bit adventurous, the cost saving is worth it.

cockney steve
10th Feb 2013, 23:16
Another for Ubuntu......never see a "blue screen of death" everything works, cameras auto-detected ditto printers...Open Office, Firefox,Opera,pidgin instant messenger....all free, all works, all highly resistant to viruses and stuff....why make Gates even richer?

jackieofalltrades
11th Feb 2013, 00:45
I like Windows Vista. Still run it on my machine. Personally I find Macs user-unfriendly, but that's just my opinion. Close friends of mine swear by them.

Dushan
11th Feb 2013, 01:13
Admittedly Macs have a bit of a learning curve for experienced Windows users, but for those that are not computer savvy they are a breeze. Once you start to understand the concept and discover the stuff behind the user interface they are wonderful a unix machines.

seacue
11th Feb 2013, 01:45
Linux, as well as OS-X, is strongly related to UNIX. My 1977 UNIX loose-leaf of "man" pages is useful with Linux.

Solid Rust Twotter
11th Feb 2013, 04:34
Agree re not buying anything with Vista, 7 or 8 on it. Unless they can get XP loaded or I can do it myself somehow, I'll keep using the laptop I have until it goes tits up. Thereafter one will have to decide what to do and whether it will involve stalking and setting fire to the Gates creature for trying to fix what wasn't broken.

No interest at all in becoming an acolyte of the Apple religion. That degree of fervour among the True Believers causes my arse to itch and my heels to dig in.

david1300
11th Feb 2013, 04:39
^^^^and causes your wallet to empty as you are bound to their lack of compatability

7x7
11th Feb 2013, 05:27
The son of a friend is pretty high up in Microsoft and he admitted to his dad that Win 8 was rushed out without sufficient tweaking. Those who fell for putting Win 8 on their PCs and laptops can only hope that Microsoft gets most of the glitches sorted out in a couple of Service Packs and hope it's not a repeat of (what was that awful, even for Windows, version called?)

I haven't looked too closely at Win 8. Does it have the Virtual Machine feature (a virtual XP os) that came with Win 7?

M.Mouse
11th Feb 2013, 06:00
Agree re not buying anything with Vista, 7 or 8 on it. Unless they can get XP loaded or I can do it myself somehow, I'll keep using the laptop I have until it goes tits up.

Not an undying Microsoft fan and I am the first to admit that they have made some appalling operating systems but W7 is practical, reliable and 100% better than XP even though XP was a very good operating system.

I own several PCs and a Mac. If you like being forced to do things the APple way with no say in the matter and don't mind paying several times the cost of an equivalent Windows machine go ahead. They have some good points but I would certainly never buy another.

probes
11th Feb 2013, 06:09
for trying to fix what wasn't broken.
absolutely. For us it was company policy for all the thingies, and although it's not too much trouble to get used to the icons, I get puzzled again and again about how it's possibly possible to organise things into such a mess to find.

green granite
11th Feb 2013, 07:51
When Windows 7 beta came out I loaded it as a dual boot onto my XP machine, used it for a couple of weeks and never went back to XP except to run a legacy program that wont run in windows 7 (I now run it in a XP virtual machine.) When windows 8 beta came out I duly loaded it as dual boot with windows 7 used it for about a week and went back to windows 7.

Takan Inchovit
11th Feb 2013, 08:14
One reason Mac is not totally embraced in our part of the world .... Its called ripping off!

Microsoft, Apple summonsed to explain high prices - ABC News (Australian Broadcasting Corporation) (http://www.abc.net.au/news/2013-02-11/microsoft-apple-summonsed-to-front-parliamentary-committee/4512236)

Blacksheep
11th Feb 2013, 08:23
I initially had a bad time with Win 8 but as I work it out, I find it OK. The touch screen operation is certainly not as instinctive as an iPad or Android device, but I prefer touch screen to mouse and thats why I'll carry on with it.

Carry0nLuggage
11th Feb 2013, 11:54
I've not tried W8 but most people at work who have are indifferent to it and haven't bothered taking it any further than a free demo. W7 just seems to be a slightly tidied up and more stable version of XP to most of us but with a lot of the useful functions buried ever deeper.

I've given up on ever getting iPlayer to work properly under w7.

The cost of Macs always put me off trying one for years until I needed to replace my laptop. When I costed up the equivalent Windows laptop spec for a Mac Book Pro the prices were within 100 of each other so I changed to a Mac and haven't looked back. Sure you can get a Windows laptop for 2 or 3 hundred quid but when you need the performance for photo processing that ain't going to cut it.

SASless
11th Feb 2013, 11:56
TI,

At least Apple gets you once.....Microsoft is like AIDs....it is forever and ever getting you.

Every time Windows morphs....incompatibility with software and devices occurs meaning you have buy more or different software programs or devices.

Also...just in Virus Protection costs alone....over a few years and you have recouped your money.

Nope....I am sold on Mac's and will be buying another one before long...but this time it will be a laptop for traveling.

ExXB
11th Feb 2013, 13:08
Funny, most of those that have Macs say, "Yes a little expensive - but good value for money."

Those that don't have Macs say, "too [expletive deleted] expensive, rip-off, you're all iSheep anyway [bah, humbug, etc.]".

I've got one, and never regretted the extra cost. But not for everyone though.

rgbrock1
11th Feb 2013, 13:26
I tried running Windoze 8 a couple of times but after each bout in doing so I got a migraine. Windoze 8 is the most unintuitive piece of shit operating system ever bestowed on mankind. Micro$oft should collectively be ashamed for releasing such an abomination on the great unwashed masses.

No thanks. I'll stick with either Apple products - home - or Linux - work.

Sallyann1234
11th Feb 2013, 13:54
I do have a linux PC, but I do all my development work on Windows because that's what my customers use. Also some of the tools I use are Windows-only.

But I have no problems with Win7. It's extremely stable - never had a blue screen - and Classic Shell restores the superior WinXP start menu. Much as I dislike MS as a company, I have to say that they did a very good job with Win7.

Win8 is a botched upgrade of Win7 whose primary purpose was to create a fresh income stream, and it occupies even more disk space. Fortunately if you have to use it then you can hide the wretched toytown desktop with Classic Shell.

G-CPTN
11th Feb 2013, 14:19
It occupies even more disk space.
Hasn't that been a given with each successive version of M$ OS?

Sallyann1234
11th Feb 2013, 14:47
Of course :(

Lancelot37
11th Feb 2013, 14:54
Bought a new laptop with W8 on it - never seen such a load of rubbish on the opening screens. Everything is now slower to operate and more difficult to find. Operations which took about 2 seconds now take about 15 seconds. I have several Genealogy files and "search" cannot find them. In W7 they were visible in a couple of seconds.

I wonder why the man who was responsible for such rubbish left Microsoft "by mutual agreement."

Dushan
11th Feb 2013, 14:57
One reason Mac is not totally embraced in our part of the world .... Its called ripping off!

Microsoft, Apple summonsed to explain high prices - ABC News (Australian Broadcasting Corporation) (http://www.abc.net.au/news/2013-02-11/microsoft-apple-summonsed-to-front-parliamentary-committee/4512236)

Expensive, yes, but how much is your time worth? Just think of endless hours you've spent in front of a Windows machine waiting for it to boot up, update the software, virus protection signatures and endless disk spinning for no apparent reason. You can make toast on most of them and have to carry ear protection because of the fan noise.

I bought a 4 year old, used, Mac for about the cost of a new Windows machine. I took it to the Apple store where they re-imaged it to the latest version of the software it came with, free of charge. Then for $20 I downloaded the next version of the operating system and it hasn't needed an update for several months. The machine runs cold, silent, boots up in 30 seconds and shuts down in 10.

I have one legacy programs that only runs in Windows. I installed Parallels virtual machine on the MAC and XP Pro in the VM. It works great.

I also bought an Apple Time Capsule, the 2TB hard drive with a WiFi router built in. It acts a s a router, external storage, and automatic backup for the MAC. It cost about the same as a good router and 2GB external drive. It took all of 10 minutes to configure and it is working like a charm

Apple stuff may be a bit expensive, up front, but it just works and lets you do your thing as opposed to Widows that seems to have a life of its own and you, and your work, are an intrusion into it.

I should have done this years ago.

hellsbrink
11th Feb 2013, 15:11
Installed the RC release of Win8, it didn't last long because of that damned "interface". I didn't get the chance to go "deeper", but everything I connected was working and it ran smoothly on an old AMD64 X2 system (wot I got for nothing).

It may work on a cellphone or tablet, but it's a pain on anything without a touchscreen.

I did send them my comments, as I am sure others did, and how I wish they had listened and just gave the option to "start with desktop and not this insane piece of dog manure which has absolutely no logic where placement of tiles is concerned" instead of the totally screwed up "WTF" screen that greets you when you first boot up windows. One checkbox, one "setup" window, one frikking option, could have made the difference to the "average" user who just wants things to work in the way they are used to instead of all the negative comments that have been seen since W8 was imposed on everyone who bought almost anything but a Mac.

You wouldn't think it was too much to ask for, but obviously it was........

hellsbrink
11th Feb 2013, 15:18
Then, Dushan, why not take the cost of an Apple and use that money to build a kick-ass "Windows" system and slap Linux on it instead?

rgbrock1
11th Feb 2013, 15:38
hellsbrink:

Maybe because Linux doesn't require a "kick ass" machine to run on? I know versions of Linux (puppy and damn small) which run quite happily, and speedily, on x286 machines!

stuckgear
11th Feb 2013, 15:40
I like Windows Vista. ##

the power of Christ compels you...

the power of Christ compels you...


vista is bloody satanic.

rgbrock1
11th Feb 2013, 15:43
I didn't know you were an Exorcist, stuckgear.

With such an installed base of Windows anything you could probably use your skill and become filthy rich.

No need to visit my home though. Windows got booted out the window a long, long time ago! :ok:

hellsbrink
11th Feb 2013, 15:48
hellsbrink:

Maybe because Linux doesn't require a "kick ass" machine to run on? I know versions of Linux (puppy and damn small) which run quite happily, and speedily, on x286 machines!

I knows that (have a USB key with Puppy just for when I have to get data from whoever yells "HELP" when they bugger up their laptop), but the point is that you could spend that sort of money on something that will be "suitable for most people's uses" for 5+ years and run it on Linux, with no 20 bucks a pop for "OS Upgrades".

Let's face it, with prices here STARTING at 1379 for an iMac you could build something with FAR superior hardware and run Linux...........

stuckgear
11th Feb 2013, 15:57
RGB. i get sucked into exorcising the computers of friends and family on a regular basis, much to my chagrin..

vista is unbeliveable, especially with the now you see it, now you dont.. networking..

even re-doing the console from a usb stick only works for a while then it decides to not recognize the network again..

and dont get me started on windows server.. that winds me up too.

Dushan
11th Feb 2013, 16:11
Then, Dushan, why not take the cost of an Apple and use that money to build a kick-ass "Windows" system and slap Linux on it instead?

Because I don't want to "build" anything. I am talking notebook computers here. I want to be able to buy it, power it up, spend 10 minutes configuring it to my likening, and start using it without any kind of mucking and tweaking.

As I said I bought a 4 year old, refurbished, MacBook for $450. Works like a charm.

rgbrock1
11th Feb 2013, 16:33
stuckgear:

I feel your pain. I too often get sucked into unscrewing what others have screwed up on their systems.

"Can you come over and take a look at my computer please. It's all in, I think, German. And I didn't do anything."

"I downloaded this file and now my computer is acting strangely".

Me: "From where did you download this, um, file?"

Them: "It was in my email and said 'Double-click me."

Keef
11th Feb 2013, 16:41
When Windows 7 beta came out I loaded it as a dual boot onto my XP machine, used it for a couple of weeks and never went back to XP except to run a legacy program that wont run in windows 7 (I now run it in a XP virtual machine.) When windows 8 beta came out I duly loaded it as dual boot with windows 7 used it for about a week and went back to windows 7.

Funnily enough, I did exactly the same. This PC is running Windows 7 and does all I ask of it (which is quite a lot).

I loaded Ubuntu (or Kubuntu, or some such) as a trial a week or so ago. It's quite nice, but it didn't have all the facilities of Windows and it's a whole new world to learn "under the hood". It's on a partition of its own and can stay there, in case I feel like another dabble.

Macs are nice (my younger daughter has about three of them) but I've never got on with them. I jailbroke my iPad and iPhone so that I could run the software I choose (rather than what Mr Jobs says I can have): I know the Apple purists consider that to be sacrilege.

But Windows 8 - no, it's another WinMe or Vista (worse than Vista).

rgbrock1
11th Feb 2013, 16:50
Keef wrote:

[quote[ It's quite nice, but it didn't have all the facilities of Windows[/quote]

Which facilities does Windows have, Keef, that Ubuntu Linux does not? Just curious.

Keef
11th Feb 2013, 17:05
Primarily the ability to run the software that I use day-in and day-out, and the fact that it doesn't like some of the peripherals that I have.

If I had a spare few days to research it all, no doubt I could find substitutes and convert my existing stuff. Since it all works OK now, there's no pressing need to do that.

Groundbased
12th Feb 2013, 06:06
Win 7 properly housekept is fine.

I find no problems with mine. In the main the problems start, as RGB said, when people start clicking "download" all over the place and let the machine get clagged up with loads of unnecessary stuff. Turn off windows update as well and just take the important updates.

I'm sure Macs are great, and I love my iphone, but I just hate all those metro types looking down their nose at us poor windows users when I get on the train at Paddington.

I find Macs don't encrypt very well (implementing full disk encryption), especially with Parallels. I really don't understand why people spend all that money on a mac and then spend ages trying to get it to look like a windows machine.

Carry0nLuggage
12th Feb 2013, 07:49
That's where the clue lies. It's a bit like car maintenance. I can do it, I've done it before but I'm no longer interested. I've got better things to be doing with my time, like actually using the car or PC for the reason it was bought.

You don't have to click on every download in sight for W7 to cause problems. It's quite capable of doing that itself. Microsoft has continued the tradition of an OS which clogs itself up and runs slower the longer you have it. OK, I haven't had to reinstall it yet like you have to with XP every so often (apart from the time W7 trashed the MBR) but that time is approaching.

In short, I'm bored with wasting so much time being my own Windows SysAdmin.

These days I don't need Windows for anything, though Linux isn't quite the replacement yet. Parallels is an interesting idea but I don't need it either.

W7 Desktop - Probably the last
Dual boot XP/Ubuntu laptop - Used for solving Windows problems
Macbook Pro - Used for travel but taking over!

YorkshireTyke
12th Feb 2013, 08:07
I blame Bill Gates.

7x7
12th Feb 2013, 09:33
Repeating my question from page 1:

Does (Win 8) have the Virtual Machine feature (a virtual XP o.s.) that came with Win 7?

Sallyann1234
12th Feb 2013, 09:37
Why keep asking here? I just found the answer in 5 secs with Google.

Carry0nLuggage
12th Feb 2013, 11:47
Tyke. Why, is Bill Gates French?

('Cos it's JB and all that.)

rgbrock1
12th Feb 2013, 12:23
Nah, it's not the fault of Bill Gates.

It's George W. Bush's fault!

Rail Engineer
12th Feb 2013, 14:46
I am glad to say that peace and harmony are restored to the RE household.

Went back to Tesco and spoke to their computer section manager who nodded knowingly and from some experience I gather, when I explained the problems.

Full refund without any problem as all they had was Windows 8 stuff.

Popped over to the Box.co.uk warehouse (where I normally source my equipment) who ran me out a very nice little Asus machine for 180 less which is running on Windows 7.

Went home, set up the Windows 7 and not a raised voice all evening, sheer bliss.

The guy was telling me that there is a big demand for Windows 7 machines but of course all the new stuff is now pre-loaded with Windows 8. Apparantly neither MS nor the manufacturers are able to understand the inherent message that the continuing demand for Windows 7 pre-loaded computers is sending.

Anyway for the time being Windows 8 is persona non grata. Sadly I am only deferring the day when I will need to upgrade at which point Apple may well have to be a consideration.

I have tried Ubuntu in the past but there still seems to be a host of problems with compatibility with even standard printers like HP, which lose a lot of functionality.

That is a great shame because I do think Ubuntu could easily take on MS and win, simply by providing a system that is not Windows 8.

It is very much like the various Office systems, I have tried a number but they seem to miss the point that many of us who would like to use them are migrating from MS Office, and stupid thinghs like paragraph spacings in inches or pixels do not help when you do not have the time to try to relearn from scratch.

The nearest system I found to MS Office was the Kingsoft system, which on the face of it looked brilliant but once you strated to use it, had a number of what I would see as basic errors, for example tables were pirnted with the heading at the outside of the page with no apparant means of resolving it. There were other smaller niggles which to me were so basic that they should have been well sorted by now, especially as the main system is a paid for one.

Again if only someone would realise that an interface as close to MS Office as possible would bring in so many more people, then something like Kingsoft could really take off.

G-CPTN
12th Feb 2013, 14:57
Have you tried Open Office?

stuckgear
12th Feb 2013, 16:22
You don't have to click on every download in sight for W7 to cause problems. It's quite capable of doing that itself. Microsoft has continued the tradition of an OS which clogs itself up and runs slower the longer you have it. OK, I haven't had to reinstall it yet like you have to with XP every so often (apart from the time W7 trashed the MBR) but that time is approaching.


i find a repair install every 18 months or so keeps it running quick and fresh

rgbrock1
12th Feb 2013, 16:52
stuckgear:

A repair install should not be something that is necessary to do.
And I'm sure Mr. Samuel Jones - 89 years old - would have a hard time understanding that concept.

Any computer system should just run. Without the need for constant defragging, CCleaning, registry optimizing, etc.

But that's what you get with a Windoze system.

Not necessary with a Mac or Linux system. Ever.

stuckgear
12th Feb 2013, 16:55
unfortunatley RGB some of the software programs i run are windows based only and i really cant see myself becoming a smug i-bore.

http://www.theunluckydip.com/images/iBore1.jpg

stuckgear
12th Feb 2013, 16:58
http://www.theunluckydip.com/images/iBore2.jpg

rgbrock1
12th Feb 2013, 17:04
Ah, but stuckgear me friend. One does not have to become an iBore. Instead one can also option for:

http://images.pcworld.com/images/article/2012/03/211113-linux_laptop_180._119jpg_original-11339635.jpg

But, be forewarned: the penguin does not at all like Windows!!!

http://a3.ec-images.myspacecdn.com/images02/49/b89c1045be9e4c1694c024f14e2682b5/l.png

Mac the Knife
12th Feb 2013, 17:48
"Any computer system should just run. Without the need for constant defragging, CCleaning, registry optimizing, etc. But that's what you get with a Windoze system.

Not necessary with a Mac or Linux system. Ever."

I never thought that I'd be defending Microsoft. Ever.
Don't like their business methods or politics.

I run all 3 (and BSD, BeOS and various oddities for fun).

Yes, Win7 (and XP more so) need occasional tinkering, but not much and nothing that needs reinstallation. This system (which has a LOT of installs of all sorts of odds and ends - debuggers, tech stuff, sound editors, utilities and etc.) was installed in December 2010 and runs very nicely still. Bluescreens about once a month and recovers on reboot. I'd call it pretty stable.

My Macs are pretty good too, but also lock up and need rebooting - rather more often and especially if you don't keep the permissions repaired.

My various Linuxes are also quite stable, but I still run into permission problems and kernel panics at times - rather more often than Win7. And yes, I have had to do reinstalls when I couldn't figure out what I'd borked.

So, anecdotally at least, I can't agree with you.

Mac

:cool:

rgbrock1
12th Feb 2013, 18:12
Mac:

I have been running various Linux distros for many moons now (Fedora, OpenSuSE, Mandriva, Red Hat, Ubuntu, Mint, etc.)
in both server and desktop/laptop versions.

In all the years of running Linux, or Unix for that matter, I have had but 1 kernel panic. Never once had permission problems nor a total system lockup. Color me lucky, I suppose.

As an early adopter of Mac OS X I certainly had my share of Mach kernel panics. Not a single one since about 2004! A couple of App freezes but no system lockup here either.

I also ran NeXTSTEP for awhile. Never had a problem with that either.

BeOS? Oh my!!!! Unfortunate that it died off as it had promise.

As an I.T. professional my concentration has always been on the operating system known as OpenVMS, or VMS as it used to be called. Used to run on DEC equipment, then Compaq but now HP. (VAX, AlphaServer, and Titanium). OpenVMS is a real operating system. So much so that the national railway system in the Netherlands - Nederlandse Spoorwegen - uses it to run their railway system nationwide. It runs on a couple of VAX and AlphaServer systems running OpenVMS.

The OpenVMS systems there have been running nonstop for 17 years. Without a single system reboot!!!!!

OpenVMS. When downtime is not an option.

SASless
12th Feb 2013, 18:15
Once month I verify the Permissions...takes maybe five minutes....and not a single lock up or problem of any kind in a year....and I am not a computer geek by any stretch of a fertile imagination!

stuckgear
12th Feb 2013, 19:13
RGB i suppose the thing is i have become so adept at windows now in many aspects of its operation and functionality that i suppose i really can't be arsed with learning the ins and outs of another O/S now.

i'm no where near the 'pro' level that you are at so knowing the functionailty and trouble shooting which to be frank is easy with windows makes life simple.. i dont think i've had a BSoD once since the mobo and proc. update last year, nor a single freeze up.

the biggest ball buster i have windows is their effing updates screwing things up and their poxy verfication non-process when re-installing or repair installing.

rgbrock1
12th Feb 2013, 19:21
stuckgear:

Understood. But, really, the learning curve for most Linux distros is very minor.

As for Windoze updates. I just love it when you're in the middle of doing something productive and then the update utility informs you that you have 2 minutes to go before a system reboot. Nothing like a bit of MS intrusiveness.

The only updating on a Linux system which requires a reboot is when the kernel itself is updated. All other updates, system-level or not, do not require a system reboot. Which is very nice indeed.

vulcanised
12th Feb 2013, 19:40
The last BSOD I had was when I was running W95. I'm fairly sure I never got one from W98 and I'm absolutely certain I've not had one on XP which is where I'm staying.

stuckgear
12th Feb 2013, 19:58
i've been meaning to give linux a try on a dual boot for a while. i just never seem to get a round to it.

Rail Engineer
12th Feb 2013, 22:20
Have you tried Open Office?Yes but it still does not approach anywhere near to ease of use for someone who is used to MS Office - which rules out a large proportion of the world.

From a users point of view, pretty much everyone is used to operating the MS Offfice system by the time they leave school/university. Whilst it may be easier for them to relearn a different interface, the rest of us, particularly those of us who are running our own businesses do not have the time to stop and try to work through the glitches of these new systems. Neither do our staff have the time to do so, especially as most of mine are employed because of their construction and engineering rather than their computing skills. The early hours of the morning on a track handback day is not the time to have to bugger about trying to work out (a) why something doesn't seem to work and/or (b) what you have to do to make this particular document record what you want it to.

I wonder if the makers of these systems take some sort of delight in introducing these little glitches as some sort of initiation rite ?

In real life pretty much anyone in Industry works with MS Office. Until the other systems allow us to simply switch and work with an interface pretty close to what we are using, their systems are never going to take off. Offering a free alternative is fine provided that Joe Public can work it quickly and easily, and especially without hitting what I would term as real basic interface issues.

Of course these could be placed deliberately to retain some sort of oneupmanship whereby you have to be better than your average to work the system, shame if that is the case.

G-CPTN
12th Feb 2013, 22:40
I cut my PC teeth on Lotus1-2-3 way back in 1983/4.
My oppo swore by his Mackintosh with its mouse and gui that he got as soon as it was available. He used it to catalogue all departmental correspondence and reports using keywords and unique 'dates' based on date of receipt/issue together with time down to the second if necessary, though minute was usually sufficiently good enough.
Current time would be expressed as 201302122340 (23:40 on 12th Feb 2013).

Edited to add:-

Once documents had been 'received' and had their date and time written on them, they were stored in numerical order, regardless of subject/topic as they could be searched using keywords and retrieved from 'the pile' if detailed study was required, then returned to the pile (in the numerical sequence of course).

Such a simple system that worked!

.

Rail Engineer
12th Feb 2013, 23:05
G-CPTN

Your last sentence of course is the one that gives the rub.

MS seem to have always tinkered with any system that they have ever produced. Normally we end up with effectively a good system as each one (other than ME/Vista) has actually ultimately been good.

This time however it seems they have this uncontrollable urge to pander to the fashionista types who are too lazy to operate a separate PC system and a Tablet system. The whole attention and interest span of these people is negligible as the swan about from the lastest gadget to the newest leaving the rest of us to pick up the pieces yet for some reason their shallow views are treated as being cast in stone on Mt Sinai.

I am not averse to new technology but a lifetime of experience screams out that change for the sake of change is never a good thing.