View Full Version : Never Trust a Photo Copier!

7th Feb 2013, 11:44

If this is true....it sucks! http://serve.mysmiley.net/mad/mad.gif

7th Feb 2013, 12:03
Incredible. What I cannot understand is why the images need to be stored on the hard drive at all.

Buster Hyman
7th Feb 2013, 12:04
Never had this problem with a Fordigraph!

7th Feb 2013, 12:06
I guess it's true Slash....and maybe not so surprising, really , unfortunate and unpleasant, but not surprising....

On the upside there are potentially hordes of young women about to be introduced to my devastatingly cute butt! ;)

7th Feb 2013, 12:09
That's food for thought......I'd wager that most people would never imagine that the humble office copier had a hard drive inside and for that matter why would the machine need to keep a record of what was being copied, assuming the staff were trusted not to abuse the facility. The fact that all those copiers were still full of document records indicates that the companies hadn't either been aware of this facility or not bothered.


7th Feb 2013, 12:19
The security people got very excited when this technology appeared .

7th Feb 2013, 12:25
I do information security risk assessments for SME businesses in the UK.

This one comes up every time. Very few people realise that these machines have hard drives and and thal images of all documents are being retained. One client had to retrieve an entire shipment of copiers that was in transit to another country. Copiers should always be part of a secure disposal programme.

7th Feb 2013, 12:34
Only since 2002 for the bigger "dedicated copiers" huh? Wonder how many especially smaller multi-functional home / small business devices contain hard-drives or more modern memory devices manufactured since?

I don't believe any of my own ever had a hard drive installed (these usually make a distingushable noise) but who's to say that the multi-function device I currently most use (Canon MP780) doesn't have the equivalent of a xGB USB key registering everything...?!

But food for thought for all of those who ever used perhaps (their XEROX) photo-copiers "in complete innocence / ignorance" to copy sensitive documents to be hidden from the tax-man.

And why I'm going to forward Slasher's link to my own boss. Only last year, he discovered that I've had access to all emails sent to all the most important company email accounts (including his own), ever since about 1997. When I was for about 6 months or so also responsable for the company website etc. in addition to my more usual functions. Since then, whilst the company's website domain has been harboured by several different companies since 1997 and with which I had nothing to do with, the email accounts and passwords never were changed...

Hope he doesn't have a heart-attack after watching the report about fax machines. :E

7th Feb 2013, 16:06
I don't believe any of my own ever had a hard drive installed (these usually make a distingushable noise) but who's to say that the multi-function device I currently most use (Canon MP780) doesn't have the equivalent of a xGB USB key registering everything...?!

Oh great, thanks for giving the buggers an idea. How long before that appears as some sort of law? Thanks for nothing!!

Anyway, being serious, I would say that yours will have some sort of memory chip in it, same as my "lesser" model (I like a printer that is easy to refill the cartridges), as how do you think it can be used as a photocopier without something to record the image that is scanned? So there will be a certain amount of memory to store images whilst printing, but I doubt it'll be anything that is of any term close to "xGB" as that costs money and that means less profit in a cut-throat market.

7th Feb 2013, 16:23
Some 35 years ago, I carried out an April Fool stunt by placing a notice on the communal photocopier located on our open-plan office floor.

Most of the users were from other offices on other floors, and, I suspected that the majority of the jobs were for personal rather than official use.

IIRC I used the acronym PAMARS - Photocopy Automatic Memory and Retrieval System - which purported to retain copies of every document copied.

As each would-be user noticed the notice they paused before removing their work and departing without copying.

Of course, back then the idea was fanciful, but, as they had just introduced itemised phone records of numbers called from each telephone it probably seemed possible - it certainly worked!

7th Feb 2013, 16:46
Canon printers have an on-line system to which you are able to agree or not as you see fit. Every so often the printer logs on to the internet and sends information about your printer to Canon. We are assured that this is for the purposes of evaluating the machine in order to make improvements.
Or is it . . . .?

7th Feb 2013, 17:02
Hey hellsbrink?! long absence from this forum - did you forget your username/password? For a moment back there, I even thought you might have topped yerself, having noticed your absence in this forum over the past few weeks.

Whilst accepting that modern printers (or multi-functions), need some memory to work, they do not need "in-built" memory of sufficient storage capacity which would please the US's NSA or equivalent in other jurisdictions. If you use a Microsoft product, take it for granted that MS and the USA's NSA have already co-operated very well.

From what I've seen, it may well be illegal for the USA NSA to eavesdrop on all communications concerning non-US citizens when intercepting global communications to which most ISPs etc. have to grant them free access. Combine all that with UK or European agencies, and "surprisingly", all the spies have adequate legislation installed to spy on all foreign nationals on their territories and within their jurisdictions.

All these USA / UK / EU and other "secretive national agencies" have to do is to simply exchange all this information, "more or less obtained legally within their own national jurisdictions", with other agencies where the legal rules no longer matter on an International scale...and presumably what they all do every day of the week amongst themselves, aided by ex. Microsoft software experts (or the head-man) where nececessary, to avoid fallouts from National regulations or whatever.

Because of all the spies and interactions necessary today etc., I expect that most 911 or 999 calls are subject to some delays as NSA (or whatever other local agency attempts to have an input decides whether or not it has something to with them) before being correctly handled. Just my opinion (of all the government-employed tossers on fat salaries and pensions, who, see 100s, if not 1000s of documents and images pass thereby every hour of each 8hr day). And do nothing. Except "on demand" from wherever or whomever, and a "highly-regarded politician or whatever" and who truly wishes to safe-guard the country against "external foes" compared to the "internal foes".

I have to sleep. (That's when they come for you - those folks who defend all of us and commit sometimes atrocious acts in our name)... :uhoh:

7th Feb 2013, 17:50

How else do you think they recall a print job after a paper jam?

You feed 100 sheets through the sheet feeder and it starts printing after 5 sheets have already passed through. 100 sheets scanned and it still only printing sheet 12 (or less if you've chosen multi-copies)
Get a Jam, and it will restart from where it left off.

It has to store it somewhere.....!

What you have to do, is make sure that maintenance is supervised, and nothing leaves the premises - HDD, Drum, Imaging Units etc

7th Feb 2013, 17:59
Most copiers, printers, digital camera etc have embedded within them some pixels that will tell what type of printer a document was made on or what camera the photo was taken with.

Digital industry provides many benefits to mankind and even more to Govts to keep tabs on people.

Milo Minderbinder
7th Feb 2013, 19:53
just thinking of a practical way of blackmailing the girls at the office party who while in drink photocopied their bare bottoms and bits for a dare.....

this could produce some long-running fun......hee hee

7th Feb 2013, 20:23
You're an evil bugger Milo! :E

My missus's boobs are probably decorating the wall of some photocopier technician's
wall in S Thailand.


...Seriously though I tore apart my small Canon and HP copiers and there appears to
be volatile memory chips but no HD. This explains why they don't remember a thing
if I turn them off and on again during a print job, but the HP printers DO remember
print jobs pending. So am I missing something here?

7th Feb 2013, 20:48
No, not missing something, just two differnet types of memory.

Hard drive stores data even when machine turned off as the info
has been written to a disk in 1's and 0's !!!

The other memory stores it but it is not written to a disk
so when machine is turned off, it disappears.

That is it in very very simplistic terms !!!

7th Feb 2013, 20:56
Get a Jam, and it will restart from where it left off.

It has to store it somewhere.....!

So a short term need results in long term storage?

Why do the disks need to retain the information until such time as the information is erased? The answer is they don't but rather than a conspiracy it is probably something which just wasn't really considered during design.

7th Feb 2013, 20:59
The makers of photocopiers are into selling copiers,
not wondering about some conspiracy theorists !!!

They couldn't really care as long as they sell copiers.

7th Feb 2013, 21:03
Actually, as far as home copiers are concerned, what they really want to sell are the ink cartridges. That's why you pay less for the printer than you do for a set of cartridges.

Milo Minderbinder
7th Feb 2013, 21:11
probably all boils down to cost....copiers tend to last many years and so by definition many will have older technology. Hard drives were cheap and reliable compared with the alternatives available at the time. Also faster than the then unreliable flash or SSD drives
They could have used RAM rather than permanent storage, but I suspect that may have caused read/write delays and - at the time - may have had capacity issues. Remember that a networked large copier may have to be buffering several multipage documents at the same time, and image files take up a lot of memory

7th Feb 2013, 21:13

Very true :ok:

RAM used to be very expensive - and slow compared to HD's.

Now it has all changed.