View Full Version : IR before CPL?
Hi all.
I am approaching 150 TT (PPL). Will shortly be commencing ATPL exams distance learning.
My current goal is to get a single engine CPL, followed by a single engine IR, eventually with intention of progressing to a flight instructor rating.
Forgive some of my lack of knowledge but can someone fill me in on the following;
The SE CPL takes 25 hours (with potential for extra few hours training prior to skills test I understand).
This would take me to 175TT, but I need 200TT for CPL license issue(?) Do I need to hour build that 25 hour gap to get my CPL issued?
It occurred to me recently that it might be a good idea to do the IR before I do the CPL? This would mean I wouldn’t have to hour build that 25 hour difference for CPL issue, is that right? I understand IR is one hell of a jump from PPL level, but I met a guy not so long ago who said he did it that way and ended up finding his CPL a doddle in comparison.
Some guidance would be great! As appreciate there may be some inaccuracies above. Cheers.
If you are only intending to instruct, why bother with the CPL/IR? Neither are required for PPL instruction under EASA. The theoretical knowledge for CPL is still necessary, however.
a) I dont feel that I would be particularly employable (in an already tough marketplace) to instruct just on a PPL license.
b) I would prefer to be payed for my time instructing.
c) My long term intention would be to work as a pilot, so getting the CPL/IR is a must.
Has anyone done the IR before their CPL?
Doing the IR before the CPL is very common, I can't remember the exact figures but you only need something like 70 hours PIC to do the IR, so people often do it first then sort out the CPL after.
You are quite right in that once you complete your CPL, if you don't have 200 hours total time, you would need to build some to get the CPL issued. However, if you're doing the whole thing in one go, you can do the CPL, then immediately start the IR without getting the CPL issued. Then, when you finish the IR you have your 200 hours total time, and get the whole thing issued in one go, again a very common way of getting this done.
The main thing I would worry about is which theory package to do. The CPL+IR exams are quite tough as two packages, and a lot of schools don't offer a very good package to take them. This is because the vast majority of people go straight for ATPL exams. If you have any intention at all of looking for a multi crew or airline job in the future, the ATPL exams make a lot more sense, as it will save you having to redo a load of exams in the future. Once you have the ATPL exams you have 3 years to get both CPL+IR, so it's up to you as to whether this time scale works for you.
Mickey Kaye
7th Feb 2013, 09:24
"This would take me to 175TT, but I need 200TT for CPL license issue(?) Do I need to hour build that 25 hour gap to get my CPL issued?"
Yes you would
"It occurred to me recently that it might be a good idea to do the IR before I do the CPL? This would mean I wouldn’t have to hour build that 25 hour difference for CPL issue, is that right"
Yes its is. Lots of threads debating if its better to do the IR before or after CPL.
"If you are only intending to instruct, why bother with the CPL/IR? Neither are required for PPL instruction under EASA. The theoretical knowledge for CPL is still necessary, however"
True but with a PPL you need more hours before you can start the FI course. The cost of that extra hour building is about the same as the cost of doing the CPL course.
Thanks for confirming that!
Yes, will be doing the ATPL exams shortly.
Out of curiosity, does anybody know of anyone who managed to instruct on just their PPL license? Common sense tells me flight schools wouldn’t be very keen on PPL'ers teaching PPL courses?! There’s obviously the benefit that they don’t have to pay them, but surely schools want someone with an IR to instruct at least?
Instructing on a PPL If you have the CPL theoretical knowledge and an FI rating, you can instruct PPLs and be paid (not payed!) for doing so. This is new under EASA and marks a return to the situation pre-JAR. As has been noted, the only difference is the CPL flying training, which isn't that hard to do and if you are low houred might be worth your while anyway. Either way, you don't need an IR, and the cost of training for an IR is more than the cost of buying an inexpensive share in something simple and using it to build experience and share adventures with friends.
There’s obviously the benefit that they don’t have to pay them, but surely schools want someone with an IR to instruct at least?
You certainly don't need an IR to be an instructor. To teach PPL, it's all VFR, so an IR will never get any use. I was a PPL instructor for two years before I got my IR, then another year before I moved on to an airline job, I can't say there was any difference in my instruction before or after I got the IR. Especially since most basic training aircraft aren't fully equipped for IFR, so it's not like you'll be going above the clouds every lesson, as you'd have no way to get back.
What exactly are you looking to do? Full time PPL instruction really doesn't pay very well, so isn't a long term career prospect, and IR instructor is now going to be very difficult to get into without airline experience.
Turbavykas
7th Feb 2013, 12:12
Yes, I did. Just pass exam and you will have PPL IR. I had ATPL theory.
I think you can fly private 737 with PPL but because it's multi-crew you will have to pass the same training like for frozen ATPL. But license fee will be lower :D at least in my country. So you can do all the training like for frozen ATPL but ask CAA to put everything on PPL if you fly your private jets and don't plan ever to work.