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rans6andrew
5th Feb 2013, 15:20
Yesterday I took a faulty smartphone back to the shop, for the third time since it was bought new 7 months ago. I showed them the fault, again, and they agreed that it is still faulty, again, and they would send it for repair, again. Apparently they will keep sending it away, for up to 2 weeks at a time, until the Samsung warranty runs out (17 months left to run). They don't have a process for replacing faulty items that are still under manufacturers warranty. To tide me over they have a dumb phone they can lend me. Not very good, I am under contract to pay for a smart phone tarrif I can't use, for 2 weeks, again.

This is where it gets a bit silly. Today I phoned the shop to ask if I could trade in my phone and upgrade, I have been considering getting a better phone for some time. Apparently, if I go to the shop with the phone I can get a discount off the price of the phone I want. When I said that they already have my phone, could I come in, return their courtesy loan phone and get an upgrade they said that they need to have my phone in the shop. The fact that they took it in yesterday doesn't count, they need to see the phone today!

Then it got very silly, they said I can wait up to 2 weeks for the repaired phone to come back to the shop and then do the upgrade or, this really cracked me up, they can get the phone returned from their repair shop straight away and then do the upgrade if the phone is working! Why do you think it is at the repair shop? It was shown to be faulty yesteday and you agreed it was faulty yesterday...........

The so called manager said that there was nothing he could do, despite being able to understand where I am coming from. Until I have a phone to trade in, nothing doing........

Is it just me?

Rans6........

beaufort1
5th Feb 2013, 15:29
If you're based in the UK aren't you covered by consumer law? If I was in your position I would demand my money back and start again with a company that can provide what I want. :hmm:

Helol
5th Feb 2013, 15:39
Unfortunately, some managers aren't capable of managing their own arses and have been given the 'pretend' title of 'manager' when in fact they have no authority to make decisions and couldn't manage the proverbial piss up.

Evanelpus
5th Feb 2013, 15:41
Andrew

Name and shame the shop in question. Are the initials CW by any chance?

jumpseater
5th Feb 2013, 15:41
Sale of Goods Act - Which? Consumer Rights (http://www.which.co.uk/consumer-rights/regulation/sale-of-goods-act/)

Basically go back and demand your money back. Ideally you should have done it earlier, but if you've let them try and repair it and its still not working, just get tough with them. Your contract is with the shop, so if they say its nokisungrolas fault, thats not your problem, thats theirs, You want your money back or a equivalent phone that works, 'now'. Oh and ask what they are going to do to appease you for the inconvenience.

You just have to be not very British about complaining about it, whinge like a yank, we don't do enuff of it here. :ok:

rans6andrew
5th Feb 2013, 15:53
I did consult my contract and notice that the contract only refers to the 24 months of network charges.

The phone, a Galaxy Ace, was "FREE" with the contract but not mentioned in any of the paperwork.

Also, the contract allows me 250 minutes of calls, 5000 texts and 500MB data per month for just 7.50. I've not been able to match that anywhere else.

My other half wants a smart phone now, despite the fun and games I have had with my first one. We are waiting for the same or equivalent offer to come around again. It ran twice last year. The same tarrif is available now but the included phone is nowhere near as attractive or capable as the Ace.

Rans6.....

jumpseater
5th Feb 2013, 16:19
Ah, but the problem isn't with the tariff, its with the phone. You get a sevicable phone, you go away happy. Focus on the hardware, thats where the problem lies.

You want,
a new phone, same or equivalent spec or better. They made more than one of those phones, tell them (polite and blunt) to get another new one.
They are in breach of contract, you can't use your contract because you don't have a sevicable phone to the specification (model) they agreed to in the contract, (wave piece of paper at him).
You're not going to go down the pub with him, so you can afford to give him grief. Always refer to 'your company' rather than you, your beef is with the faulty product his company has provided, not him or his staff. If he says 'I can't' tell him to get someone who can to speak to you, 'now' Replace it for new/equivalent or better, or you'll terminate the contract under SOGA. He won't want to do that due hassle and 'losing a customer'. Be politely blunt and to the point, and do it Saturday morning in the shop.

Unhappy customer getting crap service, busy shop, not a good look ...

Be un-british, whinge like ###k.

unclenelli
5th Feb 2013, 17:40
Helol:
some managers aren't capable of managing their own arses


Phrases I prefer to use are:

"Couldn't tell his Ar$3 from his Elbow"
"He was just sat on his Elbow doing ...." - (let them imply the offense 'Sat on his Arse'/'Couldn't tell his Ar$3 from his Elbow')
"I wouldn't trust him/her to sit the right way on a toilet" - especially effective when spoken verbally to the person in question (inc "on a Fxxx-ing toilet"!)



Jumpseater:
The contract is for the SIM & contract, not the phone - that is a freebie.
However, failure of the phone reflects on the capability of the the SIM/Contract.

rans6andrew
5th Feb 2013, 17:50
again, the contract is quite good, I can't match it anywhere else. Be a shame to lose it.

Well spotted, CW is the outlet concerned.

It seems that I can get my new phone, on-line, from the supermarket chain that does everything from food to cars to phones to insurance, SIM free, cheaper than the upgrade with CW and keep my good contract running.

Rans6....

Mr Chips
5th Feb 2013, 18:13
Rans, I would suggest asking for a very specific refund. You can't use the data oart of your contract so ask them to refund just that part. It is way too complicated for them!

I tried this with Virgin media, asked for them to refund only what i was unable to make use of (TV not working at home). Engineer arrived within 30 minutes, asking what i had said to get him yanked off another call!

Worth a try?

jumpseater
5th Feb 2013, 18:19
The contract is for the SIM & contract, not the phone - that is a freebie.

I was aware of that, with no serviceable and suitable phone the deal/contract is not fit for purpose, the fact its free (the phone) is immaterial, it was all part of the original package.

Seems r6 has it sorted anyway and I''d follow Mr Chips' advice, they gave you hassle, return the favour and demand a refund.

Milo Minderbinder
5th Feb 2013, 19:52
The phone is an integral part of the contract and its not fit for purpose.
Besides which, because the phone is not functioning they are unable to fulfil the contract anyway
You have them both ways
Besides which, under EEC law the presumption is that the fault was there from new, and they have to prove that it wasn't.
i.e. the law assumes that any electrical product failing within this kind of time period is inherently faulty


FWIW Micro-P a leading computer wholesaler - are offering the Galaxy Ace at 116+vat, SIM free
I see Titsco offer it at 132.......
they're selling at close to their cost price and then making their money on the volume rebates

toffeez
5th Feb 2013, 20:04
It's like when your car breaks down. Is it your fault?

I'm normally a soft-spoken person but this always works. Go to the shop when it's busy and complain. When you get an idiotic reply repeat (louder) that it's not your fault. Keep repeating louder and louder until they try to take you aside to a quieter place to negotiate. Refuse.

Don't leave, don't quieten down.

It's not good for business.

You'll win.

Lonewolf_50
5th Feb 2013, 20:22
Suggest a name and shame, and hope it goes viral.

They aren't holding up their end of your smart phone contract.

Solid Rust Twotter
6th Feb 2013, 04:33
Have to feel for the manager sometimes. Idiot bean counters place him in a position where he's responsible for running the operation in his shop then deny him the authority to do so. He's second guessed by every head office wuckfit and their brother who hobble him with rules and policy.

To be fair, you should direct your ire at those above him and try to make them cry. If the shop is part of a chain, he's no more than a glorified salesman having his strings pulled by someone at head office.

radeng
6th Feb 2013, 08:05
Inform him that you are going to Trading Standards if he doesn't change it. Plus Small Claims Court if they are taking too long.

Tableview
6th Feb 2013, 08:10
They are not allowed to make decisions or to think. In this situation I ask them what they can do. They usually say 'nothing' or 'I don't know'. Then I tell them what I expect. They say : "I can't do that." Then I ask for the person who can, which usually means 'phoning 'head office'. If you stand your ground it nearly always works.

angels
6th Feb 2013, 08:16
Just call your local trading standards. They open up a file and give you a reference number.

Armed with this you walk into the shop and tell them your reference number and they poo themselves at the thought the ball is rolling and it is coming right at them and do your bidding.

I've done it three times (faulty phone, misleading pricing and faulty tumble dryer) and it hasn't failed yet.

david1300
6th Feb 2013, 08:20
Dealing with a similar issue here in Aus I did 2 things: made sure I had my documentation in order and asked if they would like to resolve it to my satisfaction or would they like me to address it through our Office Of Fair Trading; and simultaneously invoiced them for my time spent at consultants rates, and gave notice of my intention to pursue this claim through the small claims court. I took some time getting the paperwork in order, but I got the result I needed and was fair to both parties.

radeng
6th Feb 2013, 08:31
Although to be fair, it isn't always the case that the manager is useless. I got new glasses last year, and after the frames had broken three times in the same place and been replaced for free, they remade the photochromic varifocal lenses for free. After the frames had broken in the same place twice more, (last time two weeks ago) I went in and had a friendly chat with the manager (his badge calls him 'practice manager' - I asked how much practice they thought he needed!) and suggested that the time had come for me to cut my losses and have new photochromic varifocal glasses with titanium frames. He said that in that case, he would discount the price of the new glasses by the cost of the original frames. Plus a free pair of reading glasses to replace the ones left on an aircraft two weeks before.

The promised delivery date was ten working days away: the actual delivery date for both pairs turned out to be six working days.

Struck me as being what they call a 'win-win' situation.

jumpseater
6th Feb 2013, 09:15
SWT Have to feel for the manager sometimes. Idiot bean counters place him in a position where he's responsible for running the operation in his shop then deny him the authority to do so. He's second guessed by every head office wuckfit and their brother who hobble him with rules and policy.

To be fair, you should direct your ire at those above him and try to make them cry. If the shop is part of a chain, he's no more than a glorified salesman having his strings pulled by someone at head office.

I agree. However, in the UK SOGA relates to 'the shop' as where you go, thats whom your contract is with. Any number of company policies/procedures mean nothing if you stand your ground, which we terribly polite brits tend not to do.

It gets really simple when you say item x doesn't work. You have to notify them quickly and its up to you if you want them to try to repair it for you. I tend to go straight for the I want a refund/replacement as its not fit for purpose route, as it cuts to the chase. Their paperwork or policies do not override your legal position as a customer, make that politely clear to them(the manager) at front of house. Company paperwork is their problem to sort out.

I know its not very British to complain, but we don't do enough of it to cut through this corporate stalling that we get spoon fed. I always make a point of acknowledging good service too, that is equally as important.

MagnusP
6th Feb 2013, 09:26
MrsP having problems with her Galaxy, too. The settings insist that there's 1.8Gb free, but every time she tries to download an app, or take a piccy, the phone claims there's no memory. I've backed up the microSD, and she's ramped up the unhappy customer performance at the Orange shop.

Sallyann1234
6th Feb 2013, 10:35
Much better not to buy a phone tied to a contract. I always buy the phone outright, mail order, sim free. Then take out a monthly network contract.

It means you have full consumer rights and if you don't like the network service you can change at any time, taking your number with you. It works out cheaper too over a couple of years.

cockney steve
6th Feb 2013, 11:23
Re- "managers"....most are not.
I was just such, a long time ago as we grew to about 8 outlets, we had a Regional Manager...all still good...Management philosophy= "You're paid to manage...if A.M. is satisfied you're achieving your shop's potential, -carry on.

Then a new Bean-Counter arrived....all sorts of Head Office edicts arrived, emasculating managers....I left.

WRT the OP's problem. As another poster alluded...Go above the Manager's head,....Ask ,politely about the "chain of command" and ask for the "top Dog's contact details,whilst empathising you know manager's hands are tied by cretin above him, whois tied by idiot above HIM,-so you're going for the Big Cheese (who employs these underlings to keep people and problems of your ilk , off his back)

Often, Mr. Manager will suddenly "remember" he has a procedure/contact at HQ/contingency stock to resolve your problem.....otherwise approach Top Dog and warn any person being obstructive , you will name and shame them.

Always works like a charm. Bosses hate incompetent employees and hate the slur on their personal rep. Invariably the action is instant, apologetic and reflects your inconvenience with a large dollop of "goodwill"

radeng
6th Feb 2013, 13:23
>Often, Mr. Manager will suddenly "remember" he has a procedure/contact at HQ/contingency stock to resolve your problem.....otherwise approach Top Dog and warn any person being obstructive , you will name and shame them.<



Pity it didn't work at the Mid Staffs Healthcare Trust.......

Cornish Jack
6th Feb 2013, 17:57
Mid Staffs ... different kettle of fish:yuk::*
Time was, hospitals were run by Matrons who had got there by the 'hands on' route and had a personal pride in running THEIR wards well. Come the influx of MBAs and their ilk and the primary interest is keeping their contracts renewed and, therefore, making their 'target' returns look good. Putting managers into ANY enterprise which has a need for CUSTOMER satisfaction, as distinct from keeping the higher echelons happy, is guaranteed to produce the Mid Staffs result.
I have just received (and binned!) yet another mail shot survey from Ipsos Mori (no less ... and how much did that cost?) to assist the self-serving 'managers' of the NHS remaining secure in their seats.
I see that CMD has decreed that yet another overpaid, ineffective 'inspector' will be introduced to act as 'spokesman' for the next NHS scandal from which "We must learn lessons" (but NEVER do!!)
Not a single management head has 'rolled' at Mid Staffs and the only ones likely to do so in the future will be any hapless 'whistle-blower' whose conscience doesn't allow him/her to evade their public responsibility. That British attitude to 'whistle-blowers' is almost equally to blame for so many of these tragedies.

vulcanised
6th Feb 2013, 19:55
Less than impressed to hear this was Inquiry number 4 into that hospital ! http://images.ibsrv.net/ibsrv/res/src:www.pprune.org/get/images/smilies/eek.gif

G-CPTN
6th Feb 2013, 20:46
They are Colchester Hospital University NHS Foundation Trust,
Tameside Hospital NHS Foundation Trust,
Blackpool Teaching Hospitals NHS Foundation Trust,
Basildon and Thurrock University Hospitals NHS Foundation Trust and
East Lancashire Hospitals NHS Trust.
From:- BBC News - Stafford Hospital: Five more hospitals to be investigated (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-21358905)

Milo Minderbinder
6th Feb 2013, 21:26
I can't talk about hospitals, but for a few weeks I've been working in a Primary Care Trust headquarters, on contract. I can't say where. But some of the conversations I've overheard have been downright disturbing.
One of the worst was an argument between an ex-nurse who was working as a care commisioner (i.e. someone who commisions care packages for patients) trying to convince the ambulance trust that someone was indeed going to pay for her patients urgent 100 mile trip "tomorrow" to another hospital for surgery, but as yet she didn't know just which NHS trust she could get the money from.........the Ambulance trust were clearly refusing to move the patient until the money had been sorted. As far as I could tell it wasn't sorted, the patient wasn't moved and so missed the "urgent" surgery.
Listening to others coming back from daily meetings discussing the progress of psychiatric cases, it became increasingly obvious that the extended meetings were more about games of bluff in conning other trusts into paying for mental care than it was about helping the patient....
The whole thing was run as a misguided profit centre. Not the fault of the girls working there, who are all dedicated ex-nurses, but the fault of the ******** non-medical business managers in charge

rans6andrew
12th Feb 2013, 15:08
sorry to "thread drift" back to my original "blast!". The saga rolls on. Having written out a side of A4 describing the fault symptons and made sure that it was sealed into the package for the shipment to the CW repair shop I had my faulty phone sent for repair AGAIN last Monday. They called me this morning "your phone is ready for you" so I went to the shop. The shop had no idea if the fault was found, the returning paperwork just says the phone has been looked at, tested and calibrated and is has been found to work within the makers specification.

So, it took me all of two minutes to demonstrate that the phone is still not working so they have sent it away for repair, AGAIN. I told the girl in the shop that they "need to get their act together". She is constrained by their policy of replacing with a new phone for only 28 days from purchase. As it happened I spent virtually all of this time abroad without roaming enabled so the fault didn't show up.

After some phone calls she said they could replace it with one from "refurbished stock" ie someone elses phone that they have tried to repair..............

I said, "just leave it with me, I will take this up with your head office". Which I did. After some passing around the departments I was put onto someone in the repair centre (they are the only ones that can authorise a replacement phone!) let slip that they are having a number issues between the make/model of phone and the network provider since a network upgrade last year. They could ship me another nearly new phone of the same make/model but it might be just as bad or maybe even worse. I'm not sure if this is more fobbing off but in the end they have offered me a better phone from "returned" stock. I'm going to give that a go. In the meantime, I have actually bought they phone I really wanted and it works with my SIM so when the replacement turns up Er-Indoors wants to try it.

Rans6......