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Tableview
5th Feb 2013, 06:03
..... in a first world, English speaking European country, there were 'workhouses' thinly disguised as schools, for 'fallen women'.

What an appalling indictment on a supposedly civilised country, part of the EU, that such abuse could continue and be hushed up. Something else that the Catholic Church has to answer for.

BBC News - Magdalene laundries report to be published (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-21326221)

BBC World Service - Witness, Ireland's Magdalene Laundries (http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/p00y7fwk)

Fliegenmong
5th Feb 2013, 09:29
TV, that is a disgrace!

MagnusP
5th Feb 2013, 10:37
Horrendous conditions and abuse for these young women. The Peter Mullen film is worth watching. I do a cover of Johnny Mulhern's song about the laundries.

Vercingetorix
5th Feb 2013, 10:54
As they used to say on landing from flights from EGLL to EIDW: "Set your watches back 400 years".
Lovely country, lovely people but progressive thinking, NO.

ExXB
5th Feb 2013, 10:59
The evil that is done in the name of the church. Why aren't more of these sinners in Jail?

Lon More
5th Feb 2013, 11:03
Would this be the song Magnus?

Mary Coughlan
A fantastic earthy voice.



A former Magdalene Laundry resident speaks out. - YouTube

MagnusP
5th Feb 2013, 11:25
Lon More, youtube is blocked here; I'll check it when I get home. The version I do starts "For seventeen years I've been scrubbing this washboard". There's another song of the name by Joni Mitchell.

Lon More
5th Feb 2013, 14:21
Magnus it is the same song. Mary Coughlan's smoky Irish accent is well suited to it.

Lonewolf_50
5th Feb 2013, 14:29
Nicely rendered song.

Not a nice episode. What I suspect disturbs some folks, above and beyond their ire with the Church, is that the government seems to have been complicit in this.

cockney steve
5th Feb 2013, 16:05
As I've long maintained....these Catholic hypocrites don't brlieve a word of the religious shite dogma they spout. -If they did, they'd be shit-scared of retribution from above.
Corrupt, evil people , ruling through ignorance and fear and it was a self-perpetuating heirarchy.

Roundup all the evil nuns and priests and confront them with their victims who should each be handed a cane and encouraged to "cleanse the soul" of their tormentors.

I have a real hatred of the corrupt and complicit evil people involved in this institutionalised bullying and exploitation.....other religions and politicians have their share of the guilt to bear as well.

racedo
5th Feb 2013, 18:49
http://static.rasset.ie/documents/news/magdalene-executivesummary.pdf

Reading the Executive summary it provides a different viewpoint to what some on here would have you believe.

I have no doubt that there were cases of abuse but given the 10,000 people covered and 14,000 total admissions which include multiple admissions it seems that many people were willing to stay there given the alternate of nothing.

Religious orders insist their role was to provide refuge - National News - Independent.ie (http://www.independent.ie/national-news/religious-orders-insist-their-role-was-to-provide-refuge-3377716.html)

Sadly Ireland is not the only place where people have been badly treated by Govts where people locked up in institutions or children sent abroad as witnessed by BBC in last couple of days
On their own - Britain's child migrants (http://otoweb.cloudapp.net/)

Australia
PM - Parents seek compensation for Stolen Generation 04/02/2013 (http://www.abc.net.au/pm/content/2013/s3682924.htm)

baggersup
5th Feb 2013, 21:58
When I first saw the documentary on the laundries many years ago, I nearly couldn't believe it. That such a horrendous civil rights abuse had gone on for decades with nobody standing up for these poor women.

The level of abuse was unbelieveable. In many cases they've been painted as women who got pregnant out of wedlock; but in alot of cases they were women impregnated by priests through rape or abuse. The church used it to cover up their own priest's abuses among other things, so it wouldn't get out what happened to the girls.

They also were often victims of incest in their homes.

So many situations were so egregious. One poor woman interviewed who was about 65 at the time of the interview said she was sent to the laundries at 15.

She was a poor farm girl who had been sent to a neighboring farm by her parents to alleviate the numbers in the home and earn a little to send home. She was very pretty. And when the farmer began giving her certain appreciative looks, the wife got upset and told the priest she was wanton and coming on to her husband!

The poor woman said she was to innocent and sheltered at that age she didn't even understand what wanton meant or what the wife was upset about and wanted her taken out of the way of her husband permanently.

So the priest came immediately, collected her and drove her to the laundries where she was incarcerated for years.

That level of abuse is unfathomable. I've never forgotten that documentary--and the film later was well done, too.

The film "Sunshine and Oranges" takes on the true British removal of children to homes in Australia. Not a pretty story either. One real life character was put in a boy's home out in the middle of nowhere, run by priests, who subjected them to harsh physical labor in the heat with no water, and systematically sexually abused the boys with impugnity.

500N
5th Feb 2013, 22:02
"Sunshine and Oranges"

I remember that. Bindoon in WA, damn hot place.

I think it was called Oranges and Sunshine as well.



I remember when the scandal broke in the media.
All linked in with the priests.

airship
6th Feb 2013, 00:37
Only 15 years ago...

It makes me wonder how many similar atrocities are "on-going" as I write today. I guess we'll only know in another 10-15 years time. :{

racedo
6th Feb 2013, 22:04
The level of abuse was unbelieveable. In many cases they've been painted as women who got pregnant out of wedlock; but in alot of cases they were women impregnated by priests through rape or abuse. The church used it to cover up their own priest's abuses among other things, so it wouldn't get out what happened to the girls.

Not sure what documentary you saw but not one I have ever seen and have seen a few of them. The claim of being pregnant with children of priests is not in any report so could you not make up crap.

I have an elderly Irish friend whose sister in law was in the launderies. I met her a couple of times when she visited them in the UK for a holiday when in her 60's. The description today would be mildly mentally handicapped but mentally sub normal would have been used years ago.

She spent almost her whole life there and was cared for there where as he admitted that she wouldn't have been capable of living on her own. They feel she had a good life and was cared for which wouldn't have occured in outside world.

Challenging about why they left her there if it was so bad her sister dismissed that saying do you feel that I would have abandoned her to there if that was the case. She also said that on quite a lot of occasions over the years when they visited Dublin they would turn up unannounced and while her sister was working during the week she had freedom to meet with them for a short while. At weekends she spent the time with them.

She had left the laundry and came to live with them in the 1970's but was so unhappy and unsettled that she wanted to return because she knew she would be cared for. The sister died in 1998 after being ill for 8 years and was cared for by the same nuns who supposed were abusers, I know my friends visited often and have nothing but kind words about how she was treated. This doesn't tie up with the supposed fiction of a movie.

I expected the report to be scathing but it was anything but indicating a place of refuge for women available nowhere else but it required hard work in return. Friend who worked in a manual occupation and now in his 90's laughed at the idea that it was only there where hard work and long hours were required as he started working at 15 in a factory with long hours.

racedo
6th Feb 2013, 22:12
Only 15 years ago...

It makes me wonder how many similar atrocities are "on-going" as I write today. I guess we'll only know in another 10-15 years time.

Doubt it but as in previous post where friends sister in law was in a Laundry.

The question is whether some sort of institution should be available today for people.........

The great idea is get people out into the "Care of the Community" which is anything but ,where people struggle to live in the real world and rely on social services or NHS to get by.

Getting by scared of living in the real world and prey to abusers and bullys who delight in targeting people unable to defend or incapable of defending themselves where having a place they can be part of, gives them something in life.

AlpineSkier
6th Feb 2013, 22:29
Branching off at an angle, the Prefet of Corsica was assassinated 15 years ago this week which was a phenomenal act of rebellion against the French state. Believe his major action ( not certain ) was to annouce demolitition of illegal beach-restaurants

Andu
6th Feb 2013, 23:24
There was an Irish movie made about the Magdalene Sisters about 10 years ago (maybe a little earlier), telling the true story of three girls who were sent to a Magdalene home in the early 70s. At least one wasn't pregnant, but just a girl who her parents and the parish priest considered to be "heading for trouble", so they locked her away in what amounted to a prison.

'Bleak' would be a kind description of the life they lived in that place. At the end of the movie, details of what happened to all three girls in later life were given. All three ended up as really troubled adults, with totally screwed up personal lives. Multiple marriages, drugs, you name it.

I had a cousin who went to such a place at age 14 to deliver her baby 'out of sight, out of mind' in the mid 60s. She ended up committing suicide quite some years later after a pretty awful life, but I have to say, she was quite probably headed that way long before the nuns got their mitts on her.

G-CPTN
6th Feb 2013, 23:50
Until two generations ago, (just before the First World War), many young girls in England entered 'service' as domestics or housemaids in well-to-do houses.
My grandmother and her sisters started there until they met young men and then married (usually after becoming pregnant). Those who didn't attract men to marry them remained in service, although WWI changed the way people (except for the richest people) lived and ran their houses, and jobs for women in factories were created.

racedo
7th Feb 2013, 18:25
Until two generations ago, (just before the First World War), many young girls in England entered 'service' as domestics or housemaids in well-to-do houses.
My grandmother and her sisters started there until they met young men and then married (usually after becoming pregnant). Those who didn't attract men to marry them remained in service, although WWI changed the way people (except for the richest people) lived and ran their houses, and jobs for women in factories were created.

Maybe I'm wrong but look at generation as 25 years.....

Read something recently maybe it was about the census that suggested in excess of 1.5 million people were in domestic service prior to WW1and WW1 pretty much ended that.

G-CPTN
7th Feb 2013, 18:45
Until two generations ago,
Maybe I'm wrong but look at generation as 25 years.....

Sorry, I was judging by my perception of my own grandmother - forgetting that I now have two generations under me . . .