OAA Waypoint or CTC Takeoff?

[Alpha Golf Mike]

Hello everyone,

I am considering either the OAA Waypoint or the CTC Takeoff scheme for modular students for a ME CPL & IR. I have done a lot of research and have narrowed my view down to these two schools. Right now I have enrolled on the OAA ATPL-theory course and aim to complete it late next year. So I just wanted to hear your thoughts and the pros and cons for the OAA Waypoint and the CTC Takeoff scheme?

[RedBullGaveMeWings]

None of these. It's modular and you won't have any help by them. Ok maybe CTC and their AQC, but I would still obtain my CPL-ME-IR somewhere else.

As far as I am concerned, AQC is open to fresh pilots from other school around Europe.

[BAe 146-100]

The general consensus with Waypoint is that you play second fiddle to the integrated lot and pay a lot more than you need to for the privilege, not heard much about ctc's version.

If you are strictly modular I see no advantage in choosing OAA/CTC, your generally paying £10,000-£15,000 more for the IR/CPL without any of the benefits of the integrated course.

[RedBullGaveMeWings]

The piece of paper you'll have at the end of the course is the same that integrated guys have. I personally know 3 pilots that went to Texas and are now flying for Ryanair.
Look at the employment statitics on OAA's website and then subtract all the numbers - you are likely to be just a number at OAA - that ended up flying for Ryanair.
Why pay more when you can get the same result for much less and still with professionalism?

[Youngaviator254]

i've just finished waypoint, with first time passes in everything.I've got a ryanair interview 2 weeks after finishing, and although the rumour, i didn't feel unfairly treated at all, they are very good.

[clearpr0p]

Hi, I recently completely OAA Waypoint too. The course is good, my instructors professional and I didn't feel like I was treated any differently to the integrated guys in terms of training/my time spent at Oxford.

I'm aware you get a foundation degree from Bucks Uni and the 2 week First Officer Principles course gives interview tips and a CV workshop but many people on the course already have a degree and you don't really need two bachelors do you? As a grad from a redbrick with a solid mathematics based degree, that wouldn't have benefitted me too much either but I suppose having another accredited qualification is never a bad thing. You will, however, definitely make friends in the 4-5 months you're on the course who I am sure will share with you what they received from their workshops.

I guess the most important difference comes down to the after sales service in that some integrated guys may be lucky enough to get assistance with placements, which modular guys are unlikely to benefit from...unless the integrated hold pool is exhausted...which I expect would be unlikely but would be pleasantly happy to be proven otherwise.

I can see a previous posters rationale regarding his preference for CTC based on the AQC they offer but I think that is essentially the same deal with Oxford-consider there are about 30 cadets churned out each month at Oxford alone, excluding campuses overseas. Perhaps same again at CTC and of course you need to consider FTE. With the numbers graduating each month, it would likely exceed the cadet placement opportunities these 3 FTOs receive from the usual carriers and I'd expect that what placements do go their way would be directed at the APP/integrated courses.

My personal decision was based on the hours, costs, training locations, and course frequencies. I was under the impression the CTC and OAA products are both brilliant-and can confirm OAA is good. I put in the work and got 1st passes in my flying and 1st time passes across my ATPLs with average >90% (ATPLs with Bristol mind)...so set out to achieve what I aimed to achieve which I am sure as made easier by the professionals at Oxford but that is why you pay a significant premium...because OAA/CTC/FTE have a consistent track record of providing students with the resources to enable you to excel* That is not to say you cannot achieve the same result elsewhere...just that these 3 providers have a lot of experience producing a product that airlines look for. Ultimately, regardless of your FTO, it does rest on you to put in the work and deliver...and maybe a little bit of luck with the weather on the day of your IR.

What swayed my mind for OAA over CTC was at the time of application the CTC modular course was fully subscribed for the next 2-3 months...and I did not want to be unproductive in that interim. This however contradicted feedback I received from some former RAF ground-school class mates from my time in Bristol who said CTC accommodated their recent training enquiries straight away - happy for him/them as he was a nice guy and I wished him all the best of luck, but as a non-forces civvy; assuming RAF cadets don't qualify ;) I felt it was a little inconsistent -that is not to say I don't have respect for what they do/signed up for, just looking at it from purely a commercial arrangement before the patriotic banter gets underway. Anyway, this inconsistency combined with the need to drive my training and development forward meant Oxford was the obvious choice for me at the time. As a point of information while at Oxford I did come across other former RAF cadets made redundant in the recent forces cuts too so I wouldn’t necessarily conclude CTC is a better product with a mutually exclusive ex-forces contract there, well not to my knowledge. In my opinion, I felt Oxford treated all applicants to their modular course equally which is only fair.

Interestingly, I Initially wanted to go with FTE as hours for pounds, FTE did not increase their prices by 25% from the previous year and so from 2012 represented much better value to the tune of about 5k savings even after all ancilliary costs factored in (accommodation etc), but I think they had so many integrated cadets themselves at the time they were unable to offer their advertised modular course. My only other thought about FTE was that their modular course was for the ME-CPL & IR with the MCC/JOC separate. Financially it was still a no-brainer but I was unsure as to how seamless the transition would be onto the MCC post IR-you would have to clarify this with the guys at Jerez perhaps but as said, FTE was a non-option for me as the course was just not available at the time making this decision rather straight-forward.

If there is one thing I think you should do, just make sure you do your ME CPL, IR, and perhaps MCC with one FTO as I understand it provides consistency in training records and rightly or wrongly may have a material impact to your job hunting prospects. I'm sure opinion may differ on this and there is no definitive right or wrong answer but that was what was personally important for me. It will likely mean a slightly greater investment in your training. On a positive, it will also help you focus on what schools you can still consider.

But, I think most cadets, integrated & modular at either of the 3 big schools go into it knowing you need to work to find those employment opportunities - and those referrals will be heading to some lucky people who paid for the full course. I have seen some integrated APP former students renewing their IRs a year later because they had not found a flying role so if you're modular or integrated, be prepared for this.

This has been a bit of an essay but I hope you found it informative as I remembered what a huge decision...and investment... this was for me some months ago and greatly appreciated the feedback I received from some kind individuals on this forum so wanted to return the favour and give some help back to this community.

The biggest challenge however is making that investment come true and finding that first flying job! Fingers crossed for me there! If there is anyone who can offer some distinctly good pointers or dare I say opportunities then I'm all ears-please do get in touch!

Everyone else, best of luck making your decision and enjoy your flying!

[RedBullGaveMeWings]

When I say that they wouldn't help you, I mean exactly this:
I guess the most important difference comes down to the after sales service in that some integrated guys may be lucky enough to get assistance with placements, which modular guys are unlikely to benefit from...unless the integrated hold pool is exhausted...which I expect would be unlikely but would be pleasantly happy to be proven otherwise.


and not that their training standars are not as good as APPFO ones.

[Libertine Winno]

The training will be to the same standard, but the 'getting you a job' bit will certainly be different. Why else would you pay £70k+ for the same ratings you could get for £45k modular?

Covered in detail on the Modular vs Integrated sticky...

[Alpha Golf Mike]

Thank you for all your replies, especially to clearpr0p (http://www.pprune.org/members/366549-clearpr0p) for a very good and informative answer.

[Bloated Stomach]

Not sure what you mean by normal but if you meant external schools other than CTC, then yes. For the time being, only CTC modular students are being called for AQC assessments. This may change in the future, but I personally feel it won't.

[taz22]

I opted for the CTC takeoff course and would recommend it to anybody great service and definitely no favoritism over the integrated guys experienced!

Peoples view of a cpl/ir is a cpl/ir regardless whether from CTC or some shed on your local airfield, 'you will all have the same paper work in the end'. Personally i dont share this view, i believe having a well established school like CTC on my c.v could be the difference between getting a call for interview and not, i will soon find out!

I can confirm the AQC will now only be offered to CTC guys there will be no external ATP guys for a while! The option to do the AQC course should be solely a good enough reason for you to opt for CTC (and bournemouth is a great place).

Paying 10 000 to 15 000£ more is a ridiculous comment if you compare all good established schools within the u.k incl test fees vat etc they will come within £5000 of each other.

hope this helps, any more info on CTC TO please ask.

[romeosierra273]

Hello everybody,

Is there anyone who did Waypoint program these last months?