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tony draper
4th Feb 2013, 09:18
They have announced that the bones found in the Leicester car park are those of King Richard III,our last King to charge at his enemies with sword in hand cursing those dirty Lancastrians.
:rolleyes:

beaufort1
4th Feb 2013, 09:20
I wonder if he'll get a State funeral?:8

MagnusP
4th Feb 2013, 09:21
Ah, yes, Dick the sh!t, as he's known in Ireland. Richard the turd.

green granite
4th Feb 2013, 09:25
How irreverent to bury your king in a car park.

tony draper
4th Feb 2013, 09:27
The BBC interrupted a very interesting news conference re this with shite about some arse MP pleading guilty,but that was happening in London so much more important than anything happening in the rest of the country of course.:suspect:

MagnusP
4th Feb 2013, 09:35
. . . and the BBC website now leads with Huhne, but still doesn't mention the results on King Richard. :hmm:

Buster Hyman
4th Feb 2013, 09:36
Was it a disabled parking bay?

IB4138
4th Feb 2013, 09:41
Shouldn't the title of this thread have THREE exclamation marks and not two?

Makes you think it's about Richard !!, when it refers to Richard !!!.

ShyTorque
4th Feb 2013, 09:49
Just 'eard,
Dick de Turd,
Disinterred!

603DX
4th Feb 2013, 10:10
February 2013 amended version:-

Now is the winter of our discontent
Made glorious summer by this sun of York
And all the clouds that low'r'd upon our house
In the deep bosom of a car park buried ... :hmm:

ORAC
4th Feb 2013, 10:11
I understand the DNA test discovered horse meat (http://www.enotes.com/shakespeare-quotes/horse-horse) contamination......

tony draper
4th Feb 2013, 10:15
Here it is,you will never ever hear it done better,every gesture glance intonation done to perfection one if the finest examples of the actors art ever laid down on celluloid.
Laurence Olivier in Shakespeare's Richard III - Now Is The Winter Of Our Discontent. (1955) - YouTube
:)

wings folded
4th Feb 2013, 10:18
He must have clocked up some serious car park charges, especially if he was in the short stay section. ;)

treadigraph
4th Feb 2013, 10:39
I wonder if he'll get a State funeral?http://images.ibsrv.net/ibsrv/res/src:www.pprune.org/get/images/smilies/nerd.gif


In which case, will we get a day off?

Lon More
4th Feb 2013, 10:45
I wonder if he'll get a State funeral?

It's on the cards, another waste of money. I can´t really see the spin doctors building it up to the same level as a Royal Wedding

603DX
4th Feb 2013, 10:49
Here it is,you will never ever hear it done better,every gesture glance intonation done to perfection one if the finest examples of the actors art ever laid down on celluloid.



Yes, Mr D, he could really make the rafters ring, when in full flow with the masterly words provided by the Bard of Avon.

So in 1973, I was a little disappointed while standing behind him on the roof topping-out ceremony of the Olivier Auditorium of the National Theatre in London. When he had finished energetically shovelling the last square yard of concrete into place with the chrome-plated spade, I was half hoping to hear him address us with equally grandiose words to mark the momentous occasion in British theatrical history. No such luck, he was not a very well man at the time, and too puffed with the unaccustomed effort to do more than smile and wheeze.

I was still pleased to be there, though. :)

None of the above
4th Feb 2013, 11:03
"My Kingdom for a horse".

Was he the Burger King?

treadigraph
4th Feb 2013, 11:48
Wasn't it Millets who had the January sale ad: "Now is the winter of our discount tent" ?

rgbrock1
4th Feb 2013, 12:27
And here I was, in my narcissistic mind, thinking this thread was going to be about me!!!

So, since it's not, I"m going to have to go and stand in front of a mirror to admire myself! :}:}:}

fireflybob
4th Feb 2013, 12:37
Never mind a car park it's the fact that it's Leicester which is worrying - why not Nottingham?

Whirlygig
4th Feb 2013, 12:39
When the bones were first discovered, I had a hunch it was going to be Richard III.

Cheers

Whirls

rgbrock1
4th Feb 2013, 12:42
But I always thought that the only thing in Nottingham was lace, no?

That's what Buckethead told me.

vYxrdrzmuUw

skua
4th Feb 2013, 12:58
more to the point, why are the bureacrats demanding he be re-interred in Leicester? He has no emotional connecction with the place, other than it being near where he was slain.

As a mate of mine said today:

He loved Yorkshire...formative years atMiddleham where he met his future wife, son buried at Sheriff Hutton close toYork, York's guilds commented on him being, 'piteously slain'. on hearing newsof Bosworth, brave thing to do in those times. No links with Leicester otherthan it being a central point to gather his army and the place where his bodywas unceremoniously dumped.
BRING HIM BACK TO YORKSHIRE.

Now time to dish the dirt on the skinflint who sired a psychopath,and whose extremely tenuous claim to the throne, (other than a luckyvictory achieved by largely foreign mercenaries) came from a bastard sonof a French tart, (Henry 5th's widow), who got shagged by her Keeper ofthe Wardrobe.

Bring him to the wonderful York Minster, where, as the last Yorkist monarch, he belongs!

Lon More
4th Feb 2013, 13:00
I thought you were talkindg about the present incumbent's family for a minute Skua

What the Fug
4th Feb 2013, 13:10
Lon More

Tradition is just a posh word for form

Fox3WheresMyBanana
4th Feb 2013, 13:45
Middleham gets my vote, and not just because I used to live in Coverdale ('cos I've lived in Leicester too).
York Minster won't get any more tourists if he's buried there, but Middleham will if that's to be his burial place.

ShyTorque
4th Feb 2013, 13:51
Apparently they couldn't be sure at first because the skeleton was two feet shorter than he was.

skua
4th Feb 2013, 13:55
Lon
Not sure about the current lot's relations with French tarts:sad:

Fox - I take your point. Middleham would be fine by me. (Almost) Anywhere in God's own county rather than burkha land.

sisemen
4th Feb 2013, 14:40
The forensics apparently indicate that he met his death when struck by a sword from behind.

One of his foot soldiers did try to warn him by shouting "Ere, watch yer back!"

But Dickie just thought he was taking the piss again.

-- - - - - - - - - -

See no reason why not a State Funeral - he was a King of England

RedhillPhil
4th Feb 2013, 14:46
Here it is,you will never ever hear it done better,every gesture glance intonation done to perfection one if the finest examples of the actors art ever laid down on celluloid.
Laurence Olivier in Shakespeare's Richard III - Now Is The Winter Of Our Discontent. (1955) - YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q0PFH5K59gg)

:)

..or for the alternative


Richard III - YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xLongUBPm5Y&feature=player_detailpage#t=7s)

pzu
4th Feb 2013, 14:47
As Skua said

more to the point, why are the bureacrats demanding he be re-interred in Leicester? He has no emotional connecction with the place, other than it being near where he was slain.

As a mate of mine said today:

He loved Yorkshire...formative years atMiddleham where he met his future wife, son buried at Sheriff Hutton close toYork, York's guilds commented on him being, 'piteously slain'. on hearing newsof Bosworth, brave thing to do in those times. No links with Leicester otherthan it being a central point to gather his army and the place where his bodywas unceremoniously dumped.
BRING HIM BACK TO YORKSHIRE.

Now time to dish the dirt on the skinflint who sired a psychopath,and whose extremely tenuous claim to the throne, (other than a luckyvictory achieved by largely foreign mercenaries) came from a bastard sonof a French tart, (Henry 5th's widow), who got shagged by her Keeper ofthe Wardrobe.

Bring him to the wonderful York Minster, where, as the last Yorkist monarch, he belongs!

And set the date for August 1st 'YORKSHIRE DAY'

PZULBA - Out of Africa (Retired and living in Yorkshire)

airship
4th Feb 2013, 14:56
Ah, so, (please excuse far-Eastern language phonetic input...). For a moment there, I thought we were talking about "Richard the Lionheart" (apparently Richard I).

When it comes to Richard III, noone apparently wishes to know much about or rebury this ancient King suitably. Ah, so, (please excuse repeated far-Eastern language phonetic input...), it appears that the Brits appreciate their old masters as much as their iPhone IIs.

I'm not sure what that really says about the British. But perhaps they will have a suitable discussion amongst themselves over a few pints and curries before coming back here to enlighten us all... :ok:

Slasher
4th Feb 2013, 15:07
Dicky the 3rd died at the Battle of Bosworth didn't he?


http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/c/cf/Battle_of_Bosworth_by_Philip_James_de_Loutherbourg.jpg/300px-Battle_of_Bosworth_by_Philip_James_de_Loutherbourg.jpg
I say boys, let's cease this shit and build a car park what!

G-CPTN
4th Feb 2013, 15:13
http://news.bbcimg.co.uk/media/images/65643000/jpg/_65643088_bosworthgrahamturner600p.jpg"The appearance of this injury is typical of an attack with a large-bladed weapon which was sufficiently sharp to slice off a large area of bone from near the base of the skull.

"Although we cannot identify the specific weapon that caused this injury, it would be consistent with a halberd or similar weapon.

"This wound is likely to have been fatal, although that would have depended on exactly how far the blade penetrated into the brain."

A second wound on the other side of the spine indicates where blade was forced deep into the skull.

Another wound had taken a small chunk out of the top of the head.

"This wound was caused by something hitting the top of the skull sufficiently hard to push in two flaps of bone on the inside surface. Although it looks dramatic, this wound would probably not have been fatal," said Dr Appleby.

"Richard probably got within a few yards of Henry before his horse possibly became stuck in marshy ground or was killed. On foot, with foot soldiers closing in, the fight becomes a close infantry melee.

"At some point he loses his helmet and then the violent blows start raining down on the head, including a possible blow from a weapon like a halberd, including the one which I think kills him.

"Then I think it possible that someone has come along, almost immediately afterwards, possibly with his body lying face down and stuck a dagger into his head.

"From becoming unhorsed, it probably only took a matter of a few minutes, before he was dead - not a long time at all."From (and more at):- BBC News - Richard III dig: Grim clues to the death of a king (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-leicestershire-21245346)

Rather be Gardening
4th Feb 2013, 15:32
Thanks for the Olivier link, Mr D. Thoroughly enjoyed watching it. Other actors since have tended to go heavy on the psychopathic/sinister side - Olivier gave the character intelligence, energy and a dark charisma.

Lon More
4th Feb 2013, 15:43
we cannot identify the specific weapon that caused this injury

Knacker of the Yard is on the case.

sisemen
4th Feb 2013, 15:44
They'll find it in the canal. They always find the weapon in the canal.

skydiver69
4th Feb 2013, 15:47
Leicester's new mayor, Sir Peter Soulsby, is a man with a lot of grand ideas and he is the driving force behind the plan to keep Richard 3rd in the city and to build tourism around him.

Soulsby appears to be a typical socialist, devising a wide range of grand schemes and spending money which the current economy doesn't justify and which local people are at best ambivalent about, however that doesn't matter as he appears to be thinking about his legacy.

Under his stewardship the council has bought a burnt out building to save it from demolition, despite having no concrete plans or commercial interest for it, he has created a plan to build a new public square at a cost of £2.5m in an area which was revamped 3 years ago at a cost of £1.5m, he has instigated the coning off of a lane of a busy city centre road in order to create a cycle path/extra wide footpath and although this hasn't cost any money it causes traffic problems on a daily basis and doesn't seem to be used by anyone except as a way of creating extra parking. He now wants to revamp New Walk in another multi million £ project but at the same time to save money three hostels for the homeless are going to be closed. We also have traffic wardens out and about giving parking tickets at 1am on a Sunday morning and he has introduced ANPR cameras to police bus lane violations which have brought in £450,000 of fines in just 6 months. He now wants to spread their use to all bus lanes and in order to simplify use he wants the lanes to be made operational 24 hours per day, even though buses stop at 11pm!

mustpost
4th Feb 2013, 15:47
He's also been asked to undertake an ATOS check...

https://fbcdn-sphotos-h-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-ash4/426107_10151310616962800_482889846_n.jpg

https://fbcdn-sphotos-f-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-ash3/538126_614124128602957_314646361_n.jpg

Fox3WheresMyBanana
4th Feb 2013, 16:56
Siseman - that would be the Ashby Canal, very close to where the Battlefield is now thought to be located.

Snag is, someone would have had to have hung around for 319 years to chuck it in.

Standard Noise
4th Feb 2013, 20:15
http://i546.photobucket.com/albums/hh427/standardnoise_photo/66190_4288074489309_136643974_n_zps2fbc0a09.jpg

I know it takes ages to get served in Leicester pubs but at least I lived long enough to tell the tale.....:}

G&T ice n slice
4th Feb 2013, 20:51
It's just been one long downhill trend for Yorkshire culminating in the admittance of forriners into the team, including some from "the other place"

Blacksheep
4th Feb 2013, 22:05
For those who didn't see the earlier programme, there is documentary evidence in France that Richard's brother Henry was conceived at a time when their father was far away elsewhere on Kingly business. That would make Richard's proclamation at St Paul's Cross that his brother was illegitimate, that he was the only legitimate heir to their father and that his young nephew was was a usurper, correct and truthful. Richard was the legitimate King. It therefore seems that our true monarch today is a Canadian carpenter.

Long Live King Michael!!!

gingernut
4th Feb 2013, 22:12
When I heard the phrase beyond reasonable doubt I knew it was fake:)

603DX
4th Feb 2013, 22:35
I watched the Channel 4 documentary this evening with an open mind. Having a strongly developed sense of scepticism regarding the sweeping conclusions reached by many a TV documentary about so-called "careful investigations of historical mysteries", I was prepared to be disappointed yet again over the outcome.

But this one was different, the calm, sober attitude of the various specialists was most convincing. It was fascinating to see the impartial, step by step approach adopted for examination of both the historical records, and the high-tech forensic studies of the remains. At times, when the findings reached a stage which appeared dramatically at variance with established facts or with pre-conceived myth, things became highly emotional for several participants - and I felt this myself, too.

However, by the end of the programme I was practically 100% certain that this was not just another episode of wishful thinking by a band of TV "luvvies" to drum up viewing figures. This had a hard edge of reality about it, and I believe that the evidence presented demonstrates that the remains are indeed those of our last Plantagenet king. Quite a momentous achievement, and well done to all who took part.

MTOW
4th Feb 2013, 22:47
So, are we going to find that poor Dick was the victim of a victor's version of history? (Shakespeare needed the patronage of the Tudors, so unashamedly slanted his plays [Richard the 3rd) to put them in a good light.) I've heard some assert that Richard was a popular monarch and quite highly regarded, and if he was guilty of topping his unfortunate nephews, such protective measures by a monarch would not have been considered particularly outrageous or unusual in those times.

(Apart from being predominately in different languages), I suppose we could all find it easy to imagine how the modern history books would look today if the Germans and Japanese had won WW2 and how people like Curtis Le May, Winston Churchill and Arthur Harris, to say nothing of Adolph Hitler, the Emperor Hirohito and particularly Dr Josef Goebbles would be perceived and portrayed in them. Somewhat different to the way we see in our version today.

Fox3WheresMyBanana
4th Feb 2013, 22:56
Um, I don't think Arthur Harris was portrayed very well by OUR side never mind theirs, including by the man who gave him his orders and wrote a very long history of 'The Second World War'.

er340790
5th Feb 2013, 01:40
Any road, I used to go out with a French girl whose surname was Plantagenet.

So - can I claim to have slept with royalty???????:}

Must be a Dukedom in it for me somewhere!

Buster Hyman
5th Feb 2013, 01:42
So - can I claim to have slept with royalty???????http://images.ibsrv.net/ibsrv/res/src:www.pprune.org/get/images/smilies/badteeth.gif


Anyone that's fallen down in that carpark in a drunken stupor could claim the same thing!

SilsoeSid
5th Feb 2013, 03:03
I would have thought that come Sunday morning, quite a few car parks around the country would have a Richard The Third or two in them :E

Loose rivets
5th Feb 2013, 03:53
My gran trod the boards with Sir Larry, though he wasn't a Sir then.


I've read most of the posts, but I'm still not sure what made them look in that spot. Was it just chance?

Taking England alone, that would be about 38 million to one, so a heck of a lot more chance of finding a king while digger a hole than winning the lottery.

Makes yer think, don't it?

alisoncc
5th Feb 2013, 04:00
So who gets to decide where Dickie gets buried? Surely the present incumbents of Buck House have a significant say in the matter? He may have been a different line, but he was after all a King.

SpringHeeledJack
5th Feb 2013, 06:49
I was very taken with the affinity that the blonde lady (R3rd society) had with this man, it seemed to go beyond normal fascination somehow. That she had a feeling where the skeleton was laying and that it was beside the car parking space 'Letter R' was also uncanny. It didn't seem like any TV high-jinks 'arranged' for these random things to happen, so it makes you wonder.....

A good looking chap was Richard III if the facial reconstruction was accurate.



SHJ

Blacksheep
5th Feb 2013, 07:13
I've read most of the posts, but I'm still not sure what made them look in that spot. Was it just chance? The later Tudors were at pains to say that Richard's body had been thrown into the river, but contemporary records suggested that he had been buried in the Friary church. Maps and other evidence - preserved street lines etc. - pointed out the location of the Friary as under the modern car park and so the dig was conducted there. That they uncovered the King's legs in the first trench was a matter of chance, but two other trenches were dug to confirm the location of the Friary and its church.

An earlier look at Richard III's biography presented by Tony Robinson had looked at the legitimacy of Richard's elder brother Edward IV. Incontravertible written evidence is extant in France, that his "father" was far away at the time of Edward's conception, and that he was therfore not his "father's" child and was illegitimate. This was the basis for Richard's claim to the throne - that his brother was illegitimate and that he, Richard, was the true heir and that the young Edward V was in fact, a usurper. From a modern viewpoint, it was a pretty valid claim.

angels
5th Feb 2013, 07:25
Yeah, what Blacksheep said. (!!) Oh, and just to add the reason the Friary Church was no longer there was that Henry VIII had it torn down.

This, for me, was quite easily the top story of yesterday. Forget lying politicians, they crop up every day!

Missing kings don't.

And as 603DX said, the marvellous bunch of people who helped unravel the whole thing topped it all off. Well done to all!

TomU
5th Feb 2013, 07:53
Perhaps that is where the Spitfires are, as well!

MagnusP
5th Feb 2013, 07:54
"My kingdom for a hearse".

Just a thought.....

Viola
5th Feb 2013, 07:54
.. what made them look in that spot. Was it just chance?

The archaeologists weren't sure they'd find the Friary Church and thought it was a long shot to find Richard III.

This is the LOCAL news link from the BBC. Go to the bottom of the webpage and read the links from Sept 2012 which explain why they searched there. Putting all the evidence together is a superb piece of detective work.

BBC News - Richard III dig: Facial reconstruction shows how king may have looked (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-leicestershire-21328380)

It seems to me to be re-writing history to bury him anywhere else than Leicester. He was killed nearby at Bosworth Field and as he can't be re-buried in the original church (which would be best), burial in the Cathedral is the next best thing - with all due reverence. (I'm not from Leicester!!)

[QUOTE]Richard's proclamation .. that his brother was illegitimate .. QUOTE]

There was doubt about the validity of his brother, Edward IV's secret marriage to Elizabeth Woodville so possibly the Princes in the Tower were also illegitimate.

PLovett
5th Feb 2013, 08:16
There was doubt about the validity of his brother, Edward IV's secret marriage to Elizabeth Woodville so possibly the Princes in the Tower were also illegitimate.

That, I understand, was the basis for Richard's claim to the throne. After all, by that time, his brother was dead. Richard has been a particular fascination for me ever since reading a novel based around his life "We Speak No Treason" and I have been following this archaeological dig with some interest and am delighted that the bones are Richard's.

He had undoubtedly had a bad press through the ages, thanks to Tudor spin as it is the victors who get to write the history books. However, Henry 7 had a far bigger reason to have the princes in the tower done away with than Richard ever did. Besides, Henry had a penchant for acting outside of the law which Richard never did. It is quite amazing the legacy of Richard in the legal sphere and his record of just administration in the north under the rein of his brother was noteworthy.

Olivier's portrayal of Richard actually catches something which I think Shakespeare intended. That is the character is given a veneer of evil only and it is subtly mocked in the performance. Other actors play the evil, Olivier plays the subtlety.

tony draper
5th Feb 2013, 08:36
The facial reconstruction was clever as they always are but why the the Groucho Marks eyebrows?there can be no way of telling what eyebrows are like just from a skull surely.
:uhoh:

Blacksheep
5th Feb 2013, 08:44
I think the computer programme has a menu of eyebrows and she has to use the closest fit.

Those mediaeval artist weren't very good at capturing the likeness, but one can definitely see the resemblence between the facial reconstruction and the various portraits.

cattletruck
5th Feb 2013, 09:02
So now where are people going to park their bicycle?

merch
5th Feb 2013, 09:04
Has there ever been any tests for the accuracy of facial reconstruction. Where a skull is reconstructed, but a photo exists of the person before death, but unseen by the reconstructor?

tony draper
5th Feb 2013, 09:15
Yes there have been comparisons like that,watched a thing about the Science of Facial reconstruction a few years ago,the likeness in the examples were uncanny.
Still think the eyebrows were a tad on the heavy side.

Blacksheep
5th Feb 2013, 09:18
I recall there was a case where they had a skeleton but couldn't tell whose it was. The facial reconstruction was shown on the news and the victim's relatives saw it and identified her. So, in that case at least, the reconstruction was spot on.

RedhillPhil
5th Feb 2013, 09:58
I've just been told that Richard's bones are going to be interred in Leicester cathedral. LEICESTER? What connection has he with Leicester? He was killed near there, he was unceromoniously dumped (for want of a better expression) there, but he has no place in Leicester - fine unattrative midland city though it may be.
On one hand he was a York so should be in York Minster, on the other hand he was a king, so should be in Westminster Abbey.

Viola
5th Feb 2013, 10:09
It seems to me to be re-writing history to bury him anywhere else than Leicester. He was killed nearby at Bosworth Field and as he can't be re-buried in the original church (which would be best), burial in the Cathedral is the next best thing - with all due reverence. (I'm not from Leicester!!)

He was born in Northamptonshire, eldest brother was Duke of Rutland, was in exile for years in what's now Belgium/Netherlands, he was commander of the counties in the west of England, was Duke of Gloucester before he was given lands in Yorkshire. The house of York just dates back to the title given to Edward III's son - where Richard gained his claim to the throne. However they did own lands there and he spent a lot of time there during his brother's reign. Several kings are not buried in Westminster Abbey.

No area has a particular claim to him, but you can't re-write history.

skua
5th Feb 2013, 10:18
I thought the C4 programme was very measured. Clearly, having invited C4 in from the outset, the Univ of Leics had their reputation on the line, and were bound to perform with high intellectual standards. The bit I found most fascinating was near the end when they were examining his whole skeleton in the lab, and the chap from the Royal Armouries was elaborating about how he must have received all his wounds. Then stabbed up his bum when his body was carted away from the battlefield. It truly was history in the making - or perhaps a new window on an historic moment.

It tells us a lote about the state of the nation - and the meeja - that the Beeb lunchtime news yesterday led with the story of another lying scumbag politico, and Richard was relegated to last place.

Still think it a shame for RIII to reside for eternity in a city which (along with Bradford) is one of the least Anglo-Saxon in the UK, and with which he has no connection.

Wings - sorry - yes I was using "anglo-saxon" rather loosely.....

Wingswinger
5th Feb 2013, 11:39
A minor detail: He was the last Plantagenet monarch so surely there is nothing Anglo-Saxon about him. Norman through and through. Or maybe Angevin. I'll bet he spoke French at court - unless someone can correct me.

tony draper
5th Feb 2013, 12:10
The last Norman King of England was Stephen,he reigned near 300 years Before Richard,after that they were Plantagenets,English Kings had been speaking and writing in English since the time of Edward III.
:)
The name Plantagenets was derived from a small yellow flower Plantagenetta(sp?) the chaps used to wear in their hair.

SpringHeeledJack
5th Feb 2013, 12:11
He was the last Plantagenet monarch so surely there is nothing Anglo-Saxon about him. Norman through and through. Or maybe Angevin. I'll bet he spoke French at court - unless someone can correct me.

He probably did, which made the irony of his remains being removed from the burial site in a French van (Citroen) somewhat funny.


SHJ

Blacksheep
5th Feb 2013, 12:31
The hard lesson of Richard III is not to let enthusiasm run away with one on the battlefield. He had the advantage of the high ground and (even without the traitors who turned) of numbers and was almost certain of victory from the start. Had he not led a cavalry charge at Henry, who appeared (wrongly as it turned out) to be isolated he would not have been un-horsed in the subsequent melee. Any knight who was dismounted into massed infantry was dead meat from the moment his feet hit the ground.

That's why Kings and Generals subsequently sat quietly on their horses, surveying the battle while sending out couriers with messages for the Colonels on the scene. ;)

rgbrock1
5th Feb 2013, 12:38
Tony D wrote:

The last Norman King of England was Stephen

Well, Tony, was his name Norman, or was it Stephen? I"m confused. :}:}:}

vulcanised
5th Feb 2013, 14:40
For how many hundred years did they not know he was there?

Having found him, they're squabbling over where to bury him. Hilarious.

Newforest2
5th Feb 2013, 14:44
Photo for those who don't remember him.

King Richard III's face revealed after 500 years - PhotoBlog (http://photoblog.nbcnews.com/_news/2013/02/05/16852349-king-richard-iiis-face-revealed-after-500-years?lite)

sitigeltfel
5th Feb 2013, 14:45
A minor detail: He was the last Plantagenet monarch so surely there is nothing Anglo-Saxon about him. Norman through and through. Or maybe Angevin. I'll bet he spoke French at court - unless someone can correct me.

Some people reckon he had a Brummie (http://www.telegraph.co.uk/history/9850114/King-Richard-III-was-a-brummie.html)accent.

Normand French crossed with Brummie! Would anyone understand him?

cockney steve
5th Feb 2013, 15:31
I had a spanner made by King Dick,- it didn't tighten mynuts, though.

tony draper
5th Feb 2013, 15:40
The eyebrows and the eyes are wrong, the eyebrows are slightly daft and the eyesmake him look as if he was slightly cross eyed,
Friday afternoon job after a pub lunch I reckon.
:uhoh:

603DX
5th Feb 2013, 16:56
While watching the Ch 4 documentary, I found it a very moving moment when Philippa Langley of the Richard III Society was firmly resolute in her wish to envelop that humble cardboard box with Richard's Royal Standard. Realisation that these mortal remains almost certainly were those of an anointed king was rapidly approaching at that point, and I confess that I felt a lump in my throat at her praiseworthy determination to show the proper respect and dignity befitting the occasion.

sitigeltfel
5th Feb 2013, 17:04
Richard Of Yore Got Buried In Vinci

;)

Uncle Fred
5th Feb 2013, 17:35
Is there a link to the Channel 4 program for those of us not fortunate enough to have been on Blighty's shores when it was broadcast?

G-CPTN
5th Feb 2013, 17:40
http://www.channel4.com/programmes/richard-iii-the-king-in-the-car-park/4od#3478419

Loose rivets
5th Feb 2013, 17:52
Superb thread you've started, Mr D.



Thanks Blacksheep and Viola.

Viola
5th Feb 2013, 18:23
If you missed the TV programme Richard III the King in the Carpark (which was excellent) - it's on Channel 4seven at 9.00pm tonight.

Do have a look at the BBC News Leicester webpage; there's lots of information as the local BBC have been following the search for Richard III since last summer when the University of Leicester weren't even sure they'd find very much.

Uncle Fred
5th Feb 2013, 19:01
Thanks G-CPTN.

airship
6th Feb 2013, 00:17
I believe that HRH Prince Harry should be quite grateful having come back from his combat duties in Afghanistan alive and in one piece.

In different circumstances, I dread the thought of all the distress that the discovery of Prince Harry's remains, several centuries hence, in some nondescript Kabul car-park might have engendered... ;)

tony draper
6th Feb 2013, 08:45
For those interested this site has Thomas Moors essay on Richard and analysis of same.
Richard III (http://www.r3.org/bookcase/more/moretext.html)

Newforest2
7th Feb 2013, 14:15
Now looking for King Alfred!

Now the hunt is launched for grave of King Alfred (From Daily Echo) (http://www.dailyecho.co.uk/news/10206721.Now_the_hunt_is_launched_for_grave_of_King_Alfred/?ref=ms)

MadsDad
7th Feb 2013, 16:32
Don't know about the burial site but a mate of mine was landlord of the King Alfred at Burrowbridge and always claimed that one of the tables in the bar was the table that Alfred was sitting at when he burnt the cakes.

G-CPTN
7th Feb 2013, 16:45
BBC News - York Minster says Richard III should be buried in Leicester (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-york-north-yorkshire-21373538)

tony draper
7th Feb 2013, 16:46
I believe we have the bones of a number of kings all jumbled up in two chests in one of our Cathedrals,due to vandals breaking open the tombs and scattering the royal remains about,don't recall whether twere Henry's reformationists or Cromwells chaps,the bones were gathered up when they left and placed in the chests but which bone belonged to which King was beyond them in the days before DNA and such were known.
I heard the back end of the report on the search for Alfred and the lass spoke of finding Alfred bones by using DNA,I assumed Alfred was in one of those chests, or in both.
:uhoh:

603DX
7th Feb 2013, 17:05
That would be Winchester Cathedral I think, Mr D.

Winchester Cathedral - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Winchester_Cathedral#Displaced_in_mortuary_chests)

This says that Alfred the Great, King of Wessex (875-899) was originally buried in Winchester, and later moved to Hyde Abbey.

TEEEJ
2nd Mar 2013, 17:50
Richard III: The Unseen Story - First shown Wednesday 27 February 2013 - Available for the next 27 days at following link.

Richard III: The King in the Car Park - 4oD - Channel 4 (http://www.channel4.com/programmes/richard-iii-the-king-in-the-car-park/4od)

A special follow-up to the programme that broadcast exclusive access to the research into the remains of Richard III found underneath a Leicester car park.

Local Variation
2nd Mar 2013, 21:20
Cardinal Wolsey is reportedly next 'up'.

He's somewhere under Abbey Park in the City. Just thought I'd let the good people of Yorkshire know now, just in case they'd like to make a contribution before making their claim. ;)

tony draper
2nd Mar 2013, 21:31
I found the second program a tad disappointing in that it added very little to the first,a little bit more about the DNA research and how they tracked down Richards kin,very little else.
:uhoh:

Mish Nish
2nd Mar 2013, 23:28
Any chance anyone knows how we can watch it in Canada? Preferably legally...

Erwin Schroedinger
3rd Mar 2013, 06:27
Just noticed that the jist of my original post here was posted earlier, pre post, as opposed to post post.

Preposterous, then.

So I removed it, but was left with a blank space. Nature abhors a vacuum, so I'll add that a while back, I'd have simply deleted the entire post, post post, including the post post blank space, thereby saving a long explanation post post deletion that nobody really wants, or indeed needs, to hear, or more accurately, read. But such is life these days - rank boorocra... beeyerrockrac...bewrokracy abounds and is encouraged, even if it is :mad: hard to spell, so what can we do, I ask?

Lon More
3rd Mar 2013, 09:33
Sittin On Tha Toilet - 94 year old - YouTube

G-CPTN
13th Mar 2013, 14:54
"very disappointed" their idea for a large, limestone table-top design had been shunned.
From (and more at):- BBC News - Richard III tomb plans revealed by Leicester cathedral (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-leicestershire-21768730)

alisoncc
17th Aug 2013, 01:42
Auntie Beeb reporting that decision to inter King Richard at Leicester may be revoked.

BBC News - Richard III: King's reburial row goes to judicial review (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-23726011)

I felt at the time that leaving the place to the people who dug him up wasn't probably the best of ideas. Hey, he was a King for goodness sakes. Personal preference would be for Westminster Abbey with all his mates.

Cacophonix
17th Aug 2013, 04:02
It is for this kind of internecine rivalry that I like Britain sometimes. Perhaps one way of determining where Richard's bones should be interred would be to rerun the battle of Bosworth Field. A couple of hundred blokes from York hammering Leicester... hey come to think of it Richard was from the house of York, fighting the Lancastrians so Henry's mob could demand his body as booty again and then simply re-insult the House of York by giving them back to Leicester.

Leicester doesn't deserve Richard, the Bosworth turn off being the one you miss as you gun your way towards the M6 and cast the oppressive proximity of Leicester from your spirit. Off to York with him and let the battle be run again between the true antagonists.

Extended scene - Episode 1 - YouTube

Caco

G-CPTN
7th Oct 2013, 20:38
BBC News - Richard III Towton chapel remains are 'found' (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-york-north-yorkshire-24434795)

tony draper
7th Oct 2013, 21:35
Towton was the bloodiest battle ever fought on British Soil,no place for a young lad was Towton.
:uhoh:
Certainly no place for you Lancastrians.:rolleyes:

G-CPTN
22nd Mar 2015, 16:29
Canada's connection to King Richard III: The inside story (http://www.macleans.ca/society/canadas-connection-to-king-richard-iii-the-inside-story/)

tony draper
22nd Mar 2015, 17:33
Leicester? practically Southeners them folks is,one does not approve.:=

Loki
22nd Mar 2015, 17:40
I believe one can get a decent curry there Mr Draper.

tony draper
22nd Mar 2015, 17:47
Though it be a foul callumny on the man on the part of the Bard and that arsole Moore,this has to be the finest piece of Shakespearean wordsmithery ever laid down on celluloid,never been bettered or ever will be IMHO.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=px5hvNWoVLE

tony draper
22nd Mar 2015, 18:03
Hmmm, I see I already posted that clip earlier in the thread,that's the trouble with resurrected threads and Kings.
:rolleyes:

bcgallacher
22nd Mar 2015, 18:14
I am sitting watching the funeral service being held for Richard. Am I alone in thinking that this is farcical? Gives a bunch of men in long dresses an opportunity to look as though they are doing something serious. Who in hells name is financing this circus? I can think of many other more useful things that the money could be spent on. In fact I really do not think that a more useless waste of time and money can be thought of. Burying a bunch of medieval bones with all this ceremony is a joke.

VP959
22nd Mar 2015, 18:40
I'm inclined to a more charitable view.

Every King or Queen of England has, in my view, a right to a proper state funeral. Richard III was just chucked in a hole in the ground, having had his body humiliated after death, by all accounts.

The least we can do now is to give him a decent and honourable reburial, even if it isn't a State one that befits his status as a King of England.

G-CPTN
22nd Mar 2015, 18:43
The people of Leicester (cathedral) will stand to benefit from tourists wanting to see Richard's resting place(s).

G-CPTN
23rd Mar 2015, 12:07
Richard III taken to last resting place in one of the strangest royal processions in history | Daily Mail Online (http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3006275/Ceremony-fit-king-Remains-Richard-III-begin-five-day-journey-final-resting-place-500-years-fell-battle.html)

ORAC
23rd Mar 2015, 12:58
http://www.foreignstudents.com/sites/default/files/webfm/487782_434891669927466_1267566955_n.jpg

G-CPTN
23rd Mar 2015, 13:05
Leicester Cathedral (http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3007435/From-villain-hero-Richard-III-lies-state-Leicester-Cathedral-today-500-years-killed-battle-five-day-event-dubbed-pantomime-critics-continues.html) have 'closed the queue' as it exceeds the expectation of being cleared today.

Uncle Fred
23rd Mar 2015, 15:37
Though it be a foul callumny on the man on the part of the Bard and that arsole Moore,this has to be the finest piece of Shakespearean wordsmithery ever laid down on celluloid,never been bettered or ever will be IMHO.

A hearty agreement that it is indeed a fine display of thespian skill and interpretation. A true homage to the Bard.

Interesting in this clip that there seemed to have been a bit of a blending of the scenes from diferent Acts. I found this in the comment section: ShakespeareFlix: The First Soliloquy in Laurence Olivier's Richard III (http://www.shakespeareflix.net/2014/02/the-first-soliloquy-in-laurence.html)

Also a freind of mine weighed in with these words:

...that this version is - to use modern parlance - a mashup of Act I, Scene I, and Act III, Scene II. At 2:01 in the video lines are uttered that were written for a later scene

Why, love forswore me in my mother's womb:
And, for I should not deal in her soft laws,
She did corrupt frail nature with some bribe,
To shrink mine arm up like a wither'd shrub;
To make an envious mountain on my back,
Where sits deformity to mock my body;
To shape my legs of an unequal size;
To disproportion me in every part,
Like to a chaos, or an unlick'd bear-whelp
That carries no impression like the dam

He then returns to the original Act I, Scene I lines. The bits marked in red, if that comes through, are also altered in the movie version...with 'make' being replaced with 'heap' in the video, and the following line absent altogether.

I wonder if this was necessary for the movie version - else as originally written it might be too long for the cinema.

Nonetheless, this is poetry to be certain. To ponder? Will there ever be / has there ever been another playwright so prodigious and influential?


From my humble perch however, I would say that this six minutes is a cracking good examplar of the beauty of the Bard's expression--the first three minutes alone make one pleased to be alive to hear such words.

This is the kind of clip that young people should see. When they can watch a master work the cadence and the rythym it lifts the genius from the pages.


btw...the phrase about the lute and lascivious elicits a chuckle. I wonder what the Bard would have thought of Zep's Whole Lotta Love? !!

tony draper
23rd Mar 2015, 15:49
Actually I think a proto soliloquay appears in the Bard's Wars of the Roses series in Henry VI. :)
Which incidentally is available to watch on line or download on youtube,but I have to warn you it is very very long.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1kriqGGnJ5A&list=PL71808247F47E2A6E

alisoncc
23rd Mar 2015, 16:44
I found the whole event so wonderfully eccentric, as befits any mad English ceremony. It was the subject of discussion at a post-golf lunch some 10,500 miles away from Leicester, and I doubt that it was the only such discussion taking place around the world.

Whilst I contributed little to the conversation, I did feel proud to claim English heritage. It was all so much more fun than the antics of some pea-brain from Hollywood or ball-kicker on a paddock. I suspect contrary to the opinions of a few, things like this do have a significant impact on tourism dollars earned, for minimal cost and the publicity is worth every penny spent.

VP959
23rd Mar 2015, 18:21
I found the whole event so wonderfully eccentric, as befits any mad English ceremony. It was the subject of discussion at a post-golf lunch some 10,500 miles away from Leicester, and I doubt that it was the only such discussion taking place around the world.

Whilst I contributed little to the conversation, I did feel proud to claim English heritage. It was all so much more fun than the antics of some pea-brain from Hollywood or ball-kicker on a paddock. I suspect contrary to the opinions of a few, things like this do have a significant impact on tourism dollars earned, for minimal cost and the publicity is worth every penny spent.

I suspect you're right.

If you ask a few foreign tourists what they've come to England to see, many, probably the majority, will include something that relates to historical ceremony, even if it's only something as mundane to us as the changing of the guard.

Without wishing to denigrate the efforts of any other nation, one thing the British do exceedingly well is ceremony. One of my earliest complete and most moving memories of this is watching the funeral of Sir Winston Churchill, and then nearly 40 odd years later getting to see and touch the gun carriage that bore his coffin (and that of Diana, late Princess of Wales) at Colchester, where it was maintained and restored along with all the other paraphernalia of the Kings Troop, Royal Horse Artillery.

The eccentricity of the ceremony handing over care and responsibility for the remains of King Richard III from Leicester University to the Leicester Cathedral was typically British. I particularly liked the banner held by a respectful Yorkshireman in the crowd that read "If the King won't come to Yorkshire, then Yorkshire shall come to the King"

joy ride
25th Mar 2015, 12:33
One of my possible ancestors Princess Ann Mowbray was married to one of the "Princes in the Tower" at 5 years old and died when she was eight. I doubt we will ever know exactly what happened to the princes and why.

On a lighter note:

ATOS Declare Richard III Fit For Work ? The Beezly Street Gazette (http://beezlystreet.com/2015/03/22/atos-declare-richard-iii-fit-for-work/)

Ethel the Aardvark
25th Mar 2015, 13:38
I heard that as his coffin was carried to the new resting place the lid popped open and king Richard sat up and shouted " a hearse, a hearse, my kingdom for a hearse"
Hat, coat heading for door.

tony draper
25th Mar 2015, 15:31
They did try Richard in a court with a real Judge and Jury with evidence presented for prosecution and defense on television in the eighties I believe,the Jury found him not guilty.
The Trial can be watched on youtube for those interested.
Have to say it is a tad boring to sit through.
:rolleyes:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6-kQoKt2Kf4&list=PL58C1C16CE201057B