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22 Degree Halo
3rd Feb 2013, 17:52
Watching the video, I wonder how long he has left?

Tragic Paul Gascoigne on video | The Sun |News (http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage/news/4776338/Tragic-Paul-Gascoigne-on-video.html)

jayteeto
3rd Feb 2013, 17:56
He is a family friend, really nice lad with an addictive personality. Other than locking him away there is little can be done to help. His illness prevents him from helping himself. He isn't the idiot that some make out, he has an illness.

Tableview
3rd Feb 2013, 18:07
Very sad, but without wishing to sound too unsympathetic, certainly he has an illness, but to some extent a self-inflicted one.

OFSO
3rd Feb 2013, 19:36
I thought he was already dead. Isn't he ? Who am I thinking of ?

Seriously - poor guy, but having tried to help an alcoholic (unsucessfully I might add) I know there isn't anything one can do without the individual wanting to help themselves.

bcgallacher
3rd Feb 2013, 19:50
The effects of alcoholism on a family are horrendous - I had the misfortune to marry someone who became an alcoholic. Trying to help and cope with it over the years gradually reduced me to an emotional wreck.After we were divorced - leaving me with the custody of 2 young children, it took several years to get back to some kind of normality. My ex - wife died at the age of 49 from alcohol induced organ failure. I am afraid that Gazza is beyond help as the only person that can do anything is himself and from all reports he is unable to stay off the drink so I would think his future is bleak. this post was very difficult for me to write as it brought back many memories that I would rather have remained suppressed.

G-CPTN
3rd Feb 2013, 20:01
His current agent claims that PG has been on the wagon for two years until recent week(s).

Allegedly, the death of a friend prompted Paul to return to the drink.

Sprogget
3rd Feb 2013, 20:02
As a practising spud I have nothing but admiration for the most talented player of his generation. I prefer to think of him in his pomp.


Gazza - Paul Gascoigne - YouTube

Fox3WheresMyBanana
3rd Feb 2013, 20:08
There is a big difference between wanting to help themselves and being able to help themselves.

..and no matter how hard you try, you can't 'fix' everyone. Well, I can't.

As a consequence, nothing annoys me more than people who could improve themselves but are too lazy to do so. It's the equivalent of crying "wolf".

Mostly it's easy to tell the difference between those who can and can't help themselves, but not always.

This is why I am anti-drugs. I feel those most likely to try them are those most likely to become hopelessly addicted. For this reason I revile all those who try to make drugs 'cool', and all those who cover up the problem (which would include all of the mainstream media and almost all of the entertainment industry).

angels
3rd Feb 2013, 20:10
Yes, Gazza is dying. Horribly.

He can get all the professional help in the world but he has to want to recover. He has to admit alcohol has beaten him and uderstand that his life has become unmanageable. Step One of 12.

Addicition knows no boundaries, it isn't racist or sexist or care about class. If you suffer from it, only another addict really knows your misery and despair. Only other addicts can help him, but he has got to ask again for help.

Google Eva Rausing and check her billionaire story out. Some life.

Please believe jayteeto, Gazza is not an idiot, he is in the grip of a killer disease that is destroying him and lives around him. He will continue spiralling downwards until he hits a rock bottom (every time you think you've hit a rock bottom another bloody trap door opens) or he dies.

I know, I've been there. You can't imagine it. You think it can't get any worse, but it does.

Thanks to professional care that took nearly a year, my own demons are at bay and I have not had a drink or drug in over 5 years. It can be done.

ShyTorque
3rd Feb 2013, 20:26
Until quite recently I had a close family member with this illness. Had being the operative word. He always was own worst enemy; from many years before. Never took advice from anyone, he always knew best. Caused the family a great deal of trouble then always wanted (and expected) someone to solve his self induced problems. Again and again.

My wife came extremely close to being killed by someone else with this illness. This "ill" person was driving a large van, at high speed, when he came through her shop window. He trashed the business and the one next door by making the whole building unsafe. He also seriously injured one of my wife's customers. His excuse was that he had been to the funeral of one of his friends and "was upset". He had been making himself feel better by spending the afternoon drinking in the local pub. His deceased friend had been an alcoholic, too. After he felt sufficiently better he drove off at speed. He went round a roundabout the wrong way, mounted the kerb, narrowly missing pedestrians. His van then knocked down and landed on a street lamp which ruptured the fuel tank and the engine sump. The van then knocked the frontage off the shop, and embedded itself in the window display.

I don't have much sympathy with Gazza, I'm afraid.

Paracab
4th Feb 2013, 00:31
Nice one angels - if my old man can go dry for 25 odd years, so can MOST people. Very pleased for you mate, not easy at all.

angels
4th Feb 2013, 07:18
shy torque - Of your cases, number one sounds like a classic alcoholic. He didn't get help of the correct sort and died. It's inevitable. Let me impress upon you, you do not survive alcoholism -- unless you get proper help, you die. No ifs, no buts.

Number 2 a a lot more difficult to say. This guy could be a heavy drinker, or he could be an alcoholic, I don't know.

But what I do know is that an alcoholic does not need an excuse to drink, he does it because he has to. The enjoyment of drinking disappears when it becomes a necessity.

This is why it is an illness.

Tableview
4th Feb 2013, 07:28
This guy could be a heavy drinker, or he could be an alcoholic, I don't know.I am glad to see someone else who understands that these are two different things.

I too have lost one of my closest friends to alcoholism and seen how it ravaged and ruined the life of another person I was once close to. For all I know she may be dead by now too.

Cyber Bob
4th Feb 2013, 07:46
Unless he receives 'Proper Help' and has the will to beat this beast, it'll always be a 'Crutch' for him to fall back on. Most people who have an addiction, use any 'Life Circumstance' as an excuse to use again. (Funeral this, lost job that).

To kick an addiction, you really got to want to do it - otherwise it just wont happen. That's why some smokers quit and others dont, for example.

Gazza has an illness - simple for us all to see. He needs professional help and tough love around him, to help him beat this horrible thing. If not, sad as I type, I fear he'll follow another flawed genius, George Best.

Howay Gazza Man

CB

Alloa Akbar
4th Feb 2013, 08:00
Girlfriends brother is a recovering alcoholic. He had drunk for 10 years, but eventually suffered a monumental meltdown last August and attempted to take his own life.. Today he is a different guy, he has enjoyed the steadfast support of his wonderful Fiancee and his two daughters, as well as his close family. He knows how close he came to the end, yet every day is a battle with his own demons. He does talk to me about it, and openly admits that he wishes he could have a social drink, sometimes even believes he could have one then stop. Thankfully though he is bright enough for common sense to kick in.. thus far anyway. Long may that continue.

On the subject of Gascoigne, I was lucky enough to see him play for my beloved Rangers alongside his co-genius Brian Laudrup. Laudrup had the skill to match Gazza and the two were simply extraordinary on the football pitch.. but off it, Laudrup collected wine and appreciated its finer side as an enthusiast.. Gazza was just Gazza. I saw a documentary on him when he joined Rangers and you couldn't help but like the guy, so its nice to hear Jayteeto validate that. I certainly hope he recovers, but sadly I don't give him a cat in hells chance.

ShyTorque
4th Feb 2013, 08:55
shy torque - Of your cases, number one sounds like a classic alcoholic. He didn't get help of the correct sort and died. It's inevitable. Let me impress upon you, you do not survive alcoholism -- unless you get proper help, you die. No ifs, no buts.

Number 2 a a lot more difficult to say. This guy could be a heavy drinker, or he could be an alcoholic, I don't know.

But what I do know is that an alcoholic does not need an excuse to drink, he does it because he has to. The enjoyment of drinking disappears when it becomes a necessity.

This is why it is an illness.

Angels, in the circumstances, do you really think I'm not already aware of this? In the case of number 1, it was my brother. His illness dominated the lives of my parents for many years, and to a lesser extent, the rest of us in the family, too.

Both he and the alcoholic driver are now dead.

22 Degree Halo
4th Feb 2013, 19:00
BBC News - Gazza attends treatment centre (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-tyne-21331133)

Last chance saloon

OFSO
4th Feb 2013, 19:30
Both he and the alcoholic driver are now dead.

As is the alcoholic who was my friend.

Not only the blind stupid uncontrolled drinking of heavy spirits but also her violent personality disorders drove everyone away, or more precisely, nobody had the strength of will to go on fighting her demons for her, when she was clearly so set on self-destruction.

I think that's a common thing: after years of trying to help addictive people, there comes a time when you sit back and say "well, if that's what they want, lets leave them to it".

Then, of course, we all feel guilty when the inevitable happens.

gingernut
4th Feb 2013, 20:55
The guy does indeed look ill.

In terms of "blame" he's not much different from the smoker next door with lung cancer, the woman down the road with heart disease, or the diabetic bloke in the village who didn't attend for his eye checks and now wears thick glasses.

Jayteeto don't underestimate the support you can offer. There isn't much you can do until Paul himself decides to change, and it sounds like he's trying his best.

Alcohol addiction can be a terrible affliction.The "Sun" video looks like an unfortunate snapshot, and I found it disturbing.

In the short term, he look's like he needs protecting, and judging by his co-ordination, I'd try and make sure he takes his vitamin B and thiamine that I'm sure has been prescribed for him.

The guy need's a break and I hope, for his sake, he get's it. I'm looking forward to listening to him on some sort of "Terry Wogan," show telling us how he got out of the other side... :)

jayteeto
4th Feb 2013, 21:18
And here lies the problem, he isn't a run of the mill alcoholic. He has mental problems, including severe OCD and a massive addictive personality. As a kid he was unbelievable in his behaviour, he then got paid a fortune and it allowed him to be more erratic and impulsive. He would have ended up like this without fame and fortune...... Believe me on this!

gingernut
4th Feb 2013, 22:09
I've never met a run of the mill alcoholic, and I do believe you.

Unfortunately, the services ability to help will be clouded by the alcohol problems. It's a bit chicken & egg, but it's unlikely that the addictive personality & OCD will be addressed before he sorts out the booze.

In fairness to the services, any interventions they try probably won't work when alcohol is the main component.

The root to addressing Paul's issues, lie with Paul, and I wish him well.

Alloa Akbar
5th Feb 2013, 08:28
Just watched the video of Gazza on the Currant Bun website.. reminded me of watching Mohammed Ali.. Only Ali is a 71 year old with Parkinsons..

Have to say though, the shaking, disorientation and incoherent rambling are just like g/f's brother was.. Now he's clean, stopped shaking, got rid of the insecurity and needy behavior, just a fairly normal bloke these days.

Fingers crossed for PG.

jayteeto
5th Feb 2013, 11:36
Now in the usa for rehab, good luck to him. If only the great british public could hear about the good things he has done over the years. For every front page disaster there are 20 magnificent things. That doesnt sell newspapers though......

Alloa Akbar
5th Feb 2013, 12:18
Jayteeto - I think the situation with Gazza is simply that he was all that was good about British football back in the 90's, hugely talented and as Sir Bobby said "Daft as a brush".. Sure he drank and did daft things, often egged on by his pals, but above all (The incident with his wife aside) he was perceived as daft, rather than bad.

I think today public perception is that the majority would like to see football's clown prince recover, and spend more time in the public eye sharing his experiences and perhaps bringing those experiences to bear in a positive way which might benefit others as much as himself.

I doubt there are many papers out there delighting in his current circumstance, and I am pretty sure the same paps who photographed him leaving will be there to record his arrival as he recovers.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sol/shared/spl/hi/pop_ups/05/football_paul_gascoigne0s_career_in_pictures/img/8.jpg

http://www.holytownloyal.co.uk/images/legends/gazza-card.jpg

http://stevenjporter.files.wordpress.com/2010/06/gazzabreasts.jpg

screwballburling
10th Feb 2013, 11:15
Just heard on the bbc that he is now in ICU after collaping.

Poor man.

Get well soon!!

ShyTorque
10th Feb 2013, 12:44
He won't get better. He can't. He doesn't want to. :(

Load Toad
10th Feb 2013, 12:51
..and you know that how....?

bnt
10th Feb 2013, 13:17
That was a few days ago - he's out of the ICU now (http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/21401141). If alcohol withdrawal puts you in intensive care, that's scary. :ooh:

angels
10th Feb 2013, 18:13
Many people have died from alcohol withdrawal -- rattling in the trade.

For those secret alcoholics keeping an eye on this thread, do not try a self-detox, you can easily end up dead.

Fareastdriver
10th Feb 2013, 19:27
One bit of advice I had when I was young and throwing it back a bit.
Never drink at lunchtime, you'll never be an alcoholic; it worked.

Nick Riviera
14th Feb 2013, 11:53
Good article by another genius alcoholic footballer:

Jimmy Greaves cannot see light at the end of the tunnel for Paul Gascoigne | Mail Online (http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-2278258/Jimmy-Greaves-light-end-tunnel-Paul-Gascoigne.html)

It is refreshing that Greavsie has not trotted out the usual platitudes of "let's club together, send Gazza to rehab, we can fix him, he'll be fine". He tells it how it really is through the experience of his own battle with the bottle. It doesn't make for comforting reading but is infinitely more truthful than others have been writing.

B Fraser
14th Feb 2013, 12:59
Yasser Arafat requested that he be buried in the Gazza strip.


So they dressed him in Rangers socks, Lazio shorts and a Newcastle shirt.

Alloa Akbar
14th Feb 2013, 13:56
Give me strength... :rolleyes:

gingernut
14th Feb 2013, 14:15
a couple or so points,

alcohol withdrawal is dangerous, and should never be undertaken without expert advice. (More expert than me.) I have seen the effects of withdrawal many times, including amongst a drinking buddy who's withdrawal was enforced by the well meaning care home at which he resided. There is some guidance in the NICE guidelines for those interested. My advice, although it may seem perverse, is to carry on drinking until you get that help.

The only person that can change Paul is Paul.Whether or not Paul succeeds this time is somewhat irrelevant. He may, he may not, the important thing is that he has the potential to make that change one day. (Have a look at "cycle of change" models.")

Although this is JB, and a great place to air ones opinions on such matters, in Pauls case, he is in the grip of an illness that may one day kill him, or, hopefully may be cured, leaving him to continue a fruitful and happy life (I have seen it, many a time, with smack as well). I do have some sympathy with the argument that the choice to have a drink remains with Paul himself, but I rather think the problem is a little less simplistic than that.

Either way, he's a poorly man, he deserves help and support, sitting in judgement is unfair, inhuman and unhelpful.

I wish him all the best.:)

TBirdFrank
14th Feb 2013, 18:14
Its Valentine's Day, five months to the day since I lost my friend Dawn to alcohol addiction. It had taken her a mere four years to lose her kids, alienate many friends, visit just about every ward in North Manchester, and drive me to distraction looking for ways to save her from herself.

Yes - its completely true - an alcoholic must be prepared and ready to help themselves, but there is more the system could do, as it is - like so many activities shattered by spending cutbacks - disjointed, uncommunicative, and restricted in what it can do. I'm not criticising the individuals - they do their best - but the system is broken.

ADS, Social Service, The Samaritans, AA - all plough separate furrows, do not talk to each other, but the worst mismatch was between the hospital, the doctor and rehab.

The times she was discharged to no ongoing care, no home visits, no assistance with drying out, I simply lost count.

Then one day last September, I was mortal with a cold and went to bed in the afternoon. When I woke there was a message on my phone telling ME that I sounded awful, to get back to bed and that she would speak to me later.

By the time I picked that message up she was in Oldham General and passed away after a few hours without ever regaining consciousness - heart failure - but could have been liver, or kidneys or anything else going by her colour. That message is a WAV file now - for the memory.

A funny, feminine, capable administrator, and mum, gone at 48 - what a waste.

And when I see those pictures of Gazza - familiar, tragic, and going only one way - it can only be a matter of time - he was a fit strong bloke and no doubt its that which is still powering him.

The choice, if he can see it - can only be his.

gingernut
14th Feb 2013, 18:43
High T-Bird, hope all is well. Is Dawn the lady I met last year ?

ADS, Social Service, The Samaritans, AA - all plough separate furrows, do not talk to each other, but the worst mismatch was between the hospital, the doctor and rehab.

There Mr T, is the crux of the problems of the NHS, and the care system as a whole, it's just that it's easier to "hand off" those with alcohol dependent services. Unfotunately it's all too easy :-(

G-CPTN
5th Jul 2013, 22:15
Press Association reporting that Gazza has been arrested for a drunken assault. :ugh:

Gazza Arrested After Assaulting Sheryl! - TV Newsroom (http://tvnewsroom.co.uk/tv-talk/news/gazza-arrested-after-assaulting-sheryl-43931/)

Tankertrashnav
5th Jul 2013, 23:30
As a bit of thread drift, and on a lighter note, I see that Rory McGrath has also been arrested and cautioned for a drunken assault.

Proving that you can take the lad out of Redruth, but you can't take Redruth out of the lad ;)