Licence requirements for Aus airlines??

[WACAMEJE]

Can anyone tell me off hand which Aus airlines (besides quantas:}) require all the ATPL subjects to be written for a foreign licence conversion instead of the mandatory 4?

Thanks in advance!

[redsnail]

I hope you're being ironic, but to win friends and influence people, it's a big hint to spell the name correctly. Qantas or to be strictly correct, QANTAS.
Good luck. :)

To answer your question directly. I believe Virgin required all the exams done if the Australian ATPL was done based on a "quick" conversion. I am sure folks with more current info will set you right.

[WACAMEJE]

Thanks for the info!
No disrespect meant to the QANTAS blokes:ouch:
I heard that QANTAS wants all the subjects and not your ICAO ATPL converted to CASA ATPL via the 4 subject route!

[MakeItHappenCaptain]

I heard that QANTAS wants all the subjects and not your ICAO ATPL converted to CASA ATPL via the 4 subject route!

as opposed to converting a CPL to an FAA ATPL (piss easy) and converting that back to an Australian ATPL? Yeah, that got stepped on a while back. Going from a JAA license shouldn't be that hard if you know your stuff.:cool:

[27/09]

as opposed to converting a CPL to an FAA ATPL (piss easy)

Is that so? I though the FAA required 1500 hours, the ATPL written, plus a flight test where as CASA only requires 1500 hours and the written. Don't think there's anyway to just convert a CPL to a FAA ATPL.

[morno]

I think you'd be hard pressed to get a job with Qantas for about the next, ohhh, ever....

Try Jetstar. It's the Qantas of the future, just no one know's it yet, :hmm:.

morno

[Anthill]

Converting an Australian CPL into a US ATPL is not as simple as some would think. You have to have the minimum requirements which by recolection are:

CPL + IR + 1500hrs.

Then you sit the ATPL theory exam (fairly easy), the US IR exam (very easy), checkride (comprehensive but straight forward) and the FAA oral which is very detailed.

In the past I have heard people say that the FAA system has lower standards than our "high Australian standards" which are apparently the forefront of all avaition knowledge.

This is total BS and evidence that these people have never done a FAA type rating and checkride, which is very, very thorough :eek:

[MakeItHappenCaptain]

27/09
Is that so? I though the FAA required 1500 hours, the ATPL written, plus a flight test where as CASA only requires 1500 hours and the written. Don't think there's anyway to just convert a CPL to a FAA ATPL.


FAR 61.153 Para d (3).

Dude, have you actually looked at the ATPL written? A single three hour exam and mightn't be open book for the law, but the question database is published and I passed it with two days of study.

Speaking from experience, yeah. It is so.:cool:

Anthill, you don't have to sit the IR when you do an ATPL conversion. It's covered in the (agreed) comprehensive checkride. You do have to do it to get a validation for IR with your private license.

So, why were so many pilots using this method if it wasn't easier than doing it in Australia?

[27/09]

Dude, have you actually looked at the ATPL written? A single three hour exam and mightn't be open book for the law, but the question database is published and I passed it with two days of study.

You only did two days of study, Huh? So no prior study on the subject matter under the Aussie or another system?

I got an FAA IR on my licence passing the exam with only a small amount of study too, but I already had prior experience and study before hand. Your two days of study makes it sound somewhat easier than it is in reality.

Sure the exam bank is public but it is fairly wide ranging with a large number of questions, of which you could get any question in the exam. Unlike some places where there is no public exam bank but most people get to find out the current relatively small list of questions anyway.

As for the one three hour ATPL exam as opposed to how many CASA requires or our CAA for that matter. The FAA exams seems to focus on stuff that you need to know not a lot of extraneous stuff that really doesn't matter.

[MakeItHappenCaptain]

two days of study, huh?
Yup.
So no prior study on the subject matter under the Aussie or another system?
We're talking about converting an ATPL here. What do you think?:rolleyes:

I'll ask the question again. If it is so difficult, why did Qantas make people start doing the Australian subjects. Seven three hour exams vs. one three hour exam.

If you know your stuff wrt aerody, systems, loading, etc, the only difficult thing is going to be law. You obviously haven't done the CASA ATPL or IREX exams. I won't comment on the CAA standard because I don't know. Maybe you should apply the same principle to the FAA ATPL exam?

Anyone else who actually has done the FAA ATPL want to comment?

How about the other extreme? 14 exams for a European conversion?

[Tinstaafl]

I did the Oz ATPL exams when there were only 4 of them in ~1990 or '91. NAV was written answer style & involved off-track PNRs, Flight Planning was written and only had two questions (pre-flight plan & an in-flight re-plan), Met was part multi-choice, part written, and Air Law had both a closed book section & an open book section. All written answer exams had to have working submitted for marking, and not just the answer.

I did the Part 121 version of the FAA ATP exam in ~97. Very simple. Entirely multi-choice and usually only 3 options. Not even sectorised fuel flows. W&B simple too. Most similar to Oz PPL exams in difficulty, but without the closed book Air Law section. Rules & Regulations was the most difficult part due to having to learn TERPS criteria instead of PANS-OPS, and memorising distances in fractions of a statute mile or hundreds of feet for a wide array of lighting & vis stuff.

I did UK ATPL exams in 1999. The last UK exam sitting before JAR was implemented. Similar level of difficulty to Oz. Some areas a bit more difficult than Oz, others easier. Overall I thought a broader content in some areas but not as deep eg flight planning. Nav was more plotting of bearings but no off-track PNRs/CP.

That's the impression I'm left with after all this time since doing them.

[TSRABECOMING]

To convert ICAO ATPL to CASA, you have to pass CPL AIRLAW, ATPL AIRLAW, ATP HUMAN FACTOR, pass IREX and pass your CPL flight test and a flight for CMEIR .:ugh: Do those theory subjects by computer. :{

[WACAMEJE]

Can the CMEIR not be incorporated into the CPL flight test?

[rgmgbg01]

CPL test must be done day VFR.

CIR has to be done as a new test.

This is written in the CASA ATOM (approved testing officers manual).

[Kenny]

I might have missed it in one of the replies here but VA do not require you to have passed all the Oz ATPL subjects, if you covert from an FAA ATP. I only did the 3 exams required by CASA but I did have 5000 jet time and 2000 in the left seat when I was offered the job.

[TSRABECOMING]

Kenny,
Does CASA allow other operators to do that?

[Kenny]

TSRA,

I'm a bit brain-dead after a redeye but I'm not sure what you're asking. I did my conversion in 2003 and all CASA required was the following...

ATPL Air Law
ATPL Human Performance
CPL Air Law

IREX

CMEIR Flight Test.