Holiday Pay

[Megaton]

BALPA takes a lot of flak on here sometimes but they deserve the plaudits this time for negotiating holiday back pay for BA pilots. Well done and thank you.

[Narrow Runway]

You are joking aren't you?

I'm sure all the other company members are delighted for you, seeing as they seem to get second rate service from BALPA at both HQ and local level.

[Megaton]

Did you actually read what I'd written? No? Thought not.

[Wirbelsturm]

NR,

The case was a test case which clarified a point in law in accordance with the European Working regulations that variable pay can be considered a part of the pay realistically expected by an employee pilot even when on statutory holiday breaks.

As such the BACC took it forward in 2006 under each individual pilots names as personal claims against BA. The case has taken this long due to the constant counter appeals by BA and the difficulty in establishing what does and doesn't consist of variable pay. It now sets a precedence for ALL companies who didn't see variable pay as part of holiday pay to include a fair portion of variable pay into statutory holiday pay. Hence ALL company councils and individuals can now pursue their employers to pay this. This includes Cabin Crew and any recipient of variable pay.

All told a pretty good result for everyone irrespective of company as the door is now open for your claims as well.

[The Blu Riband]

Narrow Runway

feel free to "man up" and apologise.

A great result for all employees, thanks to Balpa's determination and tenacity.

At a time when the likes of Bassa are acting like a petulant child having yet another embarrassing tantrum (and failing to protect their members, let alone enhance their conditions) I'm really proud that BA pilots and their reps are able to produce positive results so consistently.

[Watersidewonker]

I'm sure all the other company members are delighted for you, seeing as they seem to get second rate service from BALPA at both HQ and local level
Which is why a certain amount (including BA) are joining rival unions.
let alone enhance their conditions
Quite hard when there's your 'colleagues' ready to stab you in the back (or punch you in the face a la Hong Kong style!)

[wiggy]

That didn't take long...guess it's Friday afternoon and lectures have finished.

How many in BA have left BALPA recently?

[Wirbelsturm]

Wonker,

RTFQ:

This includes Cabin Crew and any recipient of variable pay.


Perhaps if BASSA had got off it's militant ar$e and taken part in the process they would be able to offer the same to their members now as well. As it is they will have to progress the process now or just leave it up to the individual. It's not as if this has been hidden under the carpet for the past 7 years. :ugh:

[Watersidewonker]

Perhaps if BASSA had got off it's militant ar$e and taken part in the process they would be able to offer the same to their members now as well. As it is they will have to progress the process now or just leave it up to the individual.
Don't worry - all is in hand.
I always thought BALPA runs from the courts, not to them - I'm amazed, so well done. I do hope you're not going to take it though. You may be pushed back into a fight for survival!

[Wirbelsturm]

As usual, wait for someone else to do the heavy lifting and then bite the hand that feeds you eh?

Good job someone was pro-active enough to get it sorted out, not really ever been BASSA's forte has it. Anyway, I'm sure you won't be needing any of it either as those payments from the Union subs added up to a pretty penny didn't they?

As to being pushed back into a 'fight for survival', the fact that BASSA failed to prevent to start of Mixed fleet and woefully let down their membership by sidelining WW and EF has more than adequately provided savings above and beyond what will be required without having to worry. So, in a round about way, thanks BASSA. :}

BTW are you still penning the BASSA poison pen membership notices, been some cracking ones lately. Ta ta.

[frozenpilot]

Good to hear they are paying up! My company CC currently have a challenge in for holiday pay. I was just wondering how do they calculate what you are owed when paying out and how far back dated the holiday pay is??

Regards

[Watersidewonker]

Wirby, bet you're already on the way to the socksandel'n'slack shop to spend your hard earned payout. Please save a bit and donate it to your IB colleagues when they make their stand.:ok:

[Wirbelsturm]

Yep, real nice pair of open toed ones with socks with horses on the side. Luuuurvely.

[Wirbelsturm]

frozenpilot,

The BA action dates back to Jan 2006, I'm not sure what the requirements would be for other companies but Jan 2006 is when the BACC submitted the initial claim.

As to 'how much' it would depend upon your companies pay structure. It's a very complex scenario as I'm sure you are aware as there are many poeople with differing pay scales.

The BA accomodation is an averaged one effectively so I would 'assume' that that will be the precedent taken forward.

:ok:

[Watersidewonker]

Wirby, if it's not a too personal question, how much are you receiving?
£30k,£40k, £50k or higher??

[Wirbelsturm]

if it's not a too personal question
:rolleyes:

£millions wonker, £millions. :ugh:

Enought for a nice pair of Farah, stay creased slacks.


(edited: After I stopped laughing! The same as everyone else Wonker, just the same as everyone else as it is an agreed group settlement. If you want figures go look 'em up yourself.)

[Narrow Runway]

Don't be a bell end. There's not much to cheer for outside of BA if you're a BALPA member.

Ask the guys in Virgin how well BALPA did for them on this issue.

Now why don't you stop being such an annoying little Nigel clone type.

Man up.

[Super Stall]

On the subject of 'manning up' have you read the report NR?

[Narrow Runway]

On the subject of manning up, I am totally entitled to my opinion.

Just because you BA clones don't like it isn't my concern.

Most other pilots won't benefit from this wonderful victory that BALPA have spent huge sums on, so far purely for the benefit of BA pilots.

Ask the Virgin pilots how they got on. Not too well I think you'll find.

Thanks BALPA.

[Wirbelsturm]

BALPA have spent huge sums on, so far purely for the benefit of BA pilots.


Get off your high horse NR, BA are paying full costs to BALPA.

[Thad Jarvis]

Virgin will be next, followed by Easyjet.
Not just for the benefit of BA at all. Members in all Balpa companies will benefit.

[The Blu Riband]

I am totally entitled to my opinion

Indeed, it's just better if you know what your talking about.
Spouting ill-informed nonsense makes you sound like a Bassa clone.

so far purely for the benefit of BA pilots

Wrong!

Sure you're not a Wonka-ite?

[gorter]

So what is the final decision? As in how is the holiday pay calculated?

[bluepilot]

Jet2 settled last year and pilots have been getting holiday pay I think for a year now. Well done to all concerned including the management for dealing with this sensibly.

[BIGBAD]

Get off your high horse NR, BA are paying full costs to BALPA.

Actually this is complete BS , BAPLA are paying full cost which means all of us that are members are subsidising this. For my whole time in BALPA I have been subsidising BA issues. This is why there is a significant move now from BALPA to other unions.

BA should have their own union as they have their own issues , which don't affect the rest of us and I have no inclination to pay for their actions ref. against open skies which cost BALPA £2m !!!! WTF !!! And this is why BALPA is now financially f$¥#%#% !


BA pilots live in a bubble to the rest of the pilot community as far as I care you can take BALPA and stick it. BA guys need their own union so they pay for their own representation , and the rest of us don't pay for it. I have moved now from BALPA to a union that will specifically represent me in my company.

BALPA's days are numbered, it really is for BA pilots only !!!

[wiggy]

BAPLA are paying full cost which means all of us that are members are subsidising this.

Sorry to rain on your parade BIGBAD but as part of the agreed settlement BA are paying BALPA's full legal costs.

[BIGBAD]

Get off your high horse NR, BA are paying full costs to BALPA.

Actually this is complete BS , BAPLA are paying full cost which means all of us that are members are subsidising this. For my whole time in BALPA I have been subsidising BA issues. This is why there is a significant move now from BALPA to other unions.

BA should have their own union as they have their own issues , which don't affect the rest of us and I have no inclination to pay for their actions ref. against open skies which cost BALPA £2m !!!! WTF !!! And this is why BALPA is now financially f$¥#%#% !


BA pilots live in a bubble to the rest of the pilot community as far as I care you can take BALPA and stick it. BA guys need their own union so they pay for their own representation , and the rest of us don't pay for it. I have moved now from BALPA to a union that will specifically represent me in my company.

BALPA's days are numbered, it really is for BA pilots only !!!

[wiggy]

Repeating a post "verbatim", still doesn't make the opinions expressed therein correct.

[BAP]

Any news about Thomson?

I was made redundant in 2010, after 4 years with the airline, so was wondering if there is a chance to claim back some money...

One can only dream :-p

[Wirbelsturm]

Actually this is complete BS

No, it isn't.

[BusDriverLHR]

BIGBAD

BA guys need their own union so they pay for their own representation , and the rest of us don't pay for it.

What percentage of UK wide BALPA income do you think comes from BA pilots?
Do you think the BACC/BA Pilots get more money from BALPA than they contribute?

Take your time while pondering those two questions...

[4468]

What percentage of UK wide BALPA income do you think comes from BA pilots

Just so people can approximate this figure, and purely for the purposes of illustration:

BA operate around 256 a/c. In comparison an airline such as Virgin for example, seem to operate 39?

BA currently employ around 3,500 pilots. (who pay relatively high levels of subs) Many of home would be quite keen to see a separate union which they EASILY have the numbers, penetration and financing to support.

[Juan Tugoh]

What percentage of UK wide BALPA income do you think comes from BA pilots
Just so people can approximate this figure, and purely for the purposes of illustration:

BA operate around 256 a/c. In comparison an airline such as Virgin for example, seem to operate 39?

BA currently employ around 3,500 pilots. (who pay relatively high levels of subs) Many of home would be quite keen to see a separate union which they EASILY have the numbers, penetration and to support.


I disagree with your last, I do not believe that large numbers of BA pilots would happily see a separate union just for themselves. There is no evidence for that from the BA section of the BALPA forum, nor have I heard any agitation, nor indeed mention of this on the flt deck. That BA pilots could form a break away union is not in doubt as they (as a large bloc) have the numbers and the financial muscle to do so, IF it were desirable.

[relightengine]

BIGBAD:
I have no inclination to pay for their actions ref. against open skies which cost BALPA £2m !!!! WTF !!! And this is why BALPA is now financially f$¥#%#% !Clearly didn't think that through very well did we?.

Let's see, 3500 x (£75 avg - some pay £40, many pay £60-80 and quite a few pay over £100) x 12 = £3,150,000 annually from the BA community (more or less). I think we earned the right to spend £2.1m in ONE year on a test case which, in the end, served as a finger burner. As the saying goes: bad things happen for a reason; had we not done this then the BMI thing might have gone another way. Also, BALPA (BACC) are human and expected to make mistakes occasionally.

I'm genuinely sorry that Virgin's CC are not up to scratch. The members voted them in, we didn't, Jim McAuslan didn't vote them in and neither did Mark Searle (an EJ pilot BTW). Every airline has a slightly different set of problems which is why you have the CC.

I hope that your new Union works for you, BIGBAD, I really do but you have to ask yourself what you hope to achieve and how you are going to achieve it. Cutting your noses off to spite your faces is only going to hurt yourselves. You are still going to have to vote in a CC but this time they will have even less tools at their disposal because the experience, the resources and the expertise (as well as the financial backing) are gone. Until you get up to the level of BALPA on all these things... Virgin's management must be salivating at the thought of moving in for the kill. As I say, I hope I'm wrong because I have a few mates at Virgin.

As for the rest of you unfortunates without jobs or prospects etc. I'm genuinely sorry that this thread seems to be about US getting a load of money when you are all still struggling but I think the original intention of the thread was simply to acknowledge some hard work and determination on (mainly) the part of our CC but also by BALPA who do get a lot of stick.

As has been said before, if other unions spent less time bleating about their misfortunes and gnashing their teeth from the corners, they might have employed their energies to get their membership the same.

[Chunky Monkey]

... maybe, but Virgin still got stitched at the last minute when they had a clear mandate if the rumour is true - so what the hell is happening at the British Air Lines' Puppet Association?

[Alexander de Meerkat]

This is just such utter drivel - BALPA is not just for BA and that has never been more true than today. I have been a member of BALPA throughout my aviation career covering 5 different airlines, none of them being BA. They have done a great job for me and I have no complaints. Let me ask you BIGBAD, are you an ex-Dan-Air pilot perchance? If you are, just remember they went under more than 20 years ago because the whole outfit was a financial mess. Can we not just move on please?

[Leg]

Little Meercat, if you are going to bring Dan Air into this discussion at least get your facts straight, even if the company was a 'financial mess' as you put it, that is no excuse for Balpa to completely stitch up their members in that airline, what happened then was, and still is a disgrace. :mad:

[eagerbeaver1]

BALPA for once have done us a great service however if anyone thinks they are in for a payout I would say don't get too excited. I wouldn't even know how a figure could even be calculated.

I used to work for Ryanair and i received £60 a day whilst on leave. This did not come close to work I could have earned if I was working so where do us PAYE ex and current Ryanair pilots stand?
I don't understand what we could be entitled too?

A union needs as many in the collective bargaining unit as possible. Every member that leaves weakens the union.

[bex88]

Ok just to defend the BA pilot bashing and BALPA bashing. I have been in two airlines before BA and to be honest BA is much like the others but I now work harder than before. These snipes I take it are driven by the stories of jumbo skippers on £150K, final salary pensions whilst drinking their tea out of china cups? Well I am sure the stories are true but for the very vast majority in BA it is nothing like this at all. In my previous airline I worked three at a push four days in a week but at BA its more like 5 or 6 and just recently 7 on, 1 off and then another 6 on. All I am trying to point out is that most BA pilots don't fit the stereo type given.

On the BALPA side of things I have been less than impressed with it and quite frankly I have very good reason for being so. I decided to stay because without representation as a group we have nothing. Out of the blue I get a email about holiday pay and it informs me that both ex BMI and BA pilots will be receiving a settlement. BACC looking out for ex bmi guys, yes I was surprised too. It also said that this issue affects our colleagues in cabin crew and that all information was being shared with UNITE (no mention of bassa) and BALPA was supporting these unions. It also said that this test case now opened the doors for the hearings for easyjet, virgin, thompson and thomas cook employees in the coming months.

I think this defends the position against BALPA only looking out for BA pilots. When your not in BA BALPA is the British airways pilots association. When your in BA it becomes the British Airways long haul pilots association. Having seen a industry that went down the route of split unions I certainly expect we would be far far worse off.

[bacp]

The above post is quite correct, BA T&Cs are not what they were, has a spirited defense been made of them by BALPA for the recent joiners? No, I don't think so. Wille is off his leash and tearing chunks out of all of you.

[PGA]

Will the holiday pay also be paid to ex employees who were employed at the start of the time period covered?