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AlpineSkier
24th Jan 2013, 14:04
I'll start by saying I don't like this company for reasons laid out in the last apple thread, but the financial figures in their latest Q4 report are amazing.

These results were judged to be bad even though they are record highs: in just three months they sold $ 54 billion and made profits of $ 13 billion - or to put it another way, profits of $ 110,000,000 per day !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Sorry for the exuberance with !!!, but I was stunned by those numbers.

These results were so bad :rolleyes: that the share price dropped by more than 10% over night or $ 50 billion which is approx 2% of the current annual GDP of the UK .

If anyone wants more there is an interesting column in The Guardian and the comments afterwards show that Guardian readers have just as wide-ranging views on apple as do Ppruners.

Apple's fourth-quarter earnings are the first sign of strategic weakness | Charles Ferguson | Comment is free | guardian.co.uk (http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2013/jan/24/apple-fourth-quarter-earnings-strategic-weakness)

airship
24th Jan 2013, 14:17
And if only just a fraction of those profits were paid as taxes into the coffers of the US' IRS, UK's IR or any serious European countries coffers...? Instead of usually and simply disappearing into the morass of offshore-corporations in offshore tax-havens which don't actually levy any taxes on corporate profits. :ugh:

CargoMatatu
24th Jan 2013, 14:32
Rather than a reflection on the performance of Apple, I take this more as a sad indictment of the behaviour of the spivs and barrow-boys, sorry - "Traders", in the markets.

Do I trust them? :ugh::ugh::ugh::yuk:

Temp Spike
24th Jan 2013, 14:45
Samsung is out selling them, taking more market share.

AlpineSkier
24th Jan 2013, 14:54
TS

I have to give your comment an F for both information and insight value.

Nige321
24th Jan 2013, 16:03
Samsung is out selling them, taking more market share.

They most certainly are in some markets, but who is making the money? Apple is, Samsung (and Google) isn't. And the share Apple has is with the iPhone 5 and to a lesser extent the 4S - Samsung have 80 models on sale world wide.

The figures quoted yesterday are stunning by any standard, but Apple 'only' sold 47.5 million iPhones instead of the 'analysts' desired 50 million.
(Compared to the 1st quarter the previous year's measly 37 million).

Wall St thinks this is a failure, so Apple is now doomed... FIne, put your money in Google and see where that gets you...

These same analysts are the ones who said the iPad was a waste of time and would never sell... THey said the same about the iPod...

Samsung and others are undoubtedly doing well, but anyone who writes off Apple may be in for some surprises.

Dushan
24th Jan 2013, 16:08
And if only just a fraction of those profits were paid as taxes into the coffers of the US' IRS, UK's IR or any serious European countries coffers...? Instead of usually and simply disappearing into the morass of offshore-corporations in offshore tax-havens which don't actually levy any taxes on corporate profits. :ugh:

Are you suggesting that they are evading taxes? That is a serious accusation. See the Ryanair/subpena thread...

As for tax avoidance, that is a perfectly legitimate activity and everyone should engage in it to the max.

AlpineSkier
24th Jan 2013, 16:49
As for tax avoidance, that is a perfectly legitimate activity

Yes and no, Dushan. There is a tax-law in Britain that says when you indulge in actions that are purely designed to avoid taxes , then that is an illegal act. Having said that, they are very slow to employ it, at least as far as I understand from newspapers : it's not on topic but Cameron's speech in Davos may be significant as it is laying down the agenda for the G8 in June when the UK is chairman.

Dushan
24th Jan 2013, 16:52
Oh well, I thought it was just guns and freedom of speech that they gave up. Looks like their balls are in a lock box as well..

Sad...

airship
24th Jan 2013, 16:58
As for tax avoidance, that is a perfectly legitimate activity and everyone should engage in it to the max. So go ahead, but I would question whether any corporation in 2013 can ignore or ever be considered as a truly responsable company when tax avoidance is severely frowned upon by the consumers in affected countries (eg. Starbucks in UK) and where these same corporations appear to be making some amends etc.

So far as all the patents that modern technology companies including Microsoft have registered anywhere over the past few decades, but where "ownership" has conveniently been transferred to offshore tax-havens: these so-called patents issued by the usual national authorities probably in their majority, should never have been given any rights. And a direct result of all the most recent actions defended in US and European courts (at great expense to their tax-payers) in defense of so-called patents owned by corporations based in offshore tax-havens etc. They use our courts, our judicial systems, our tax-payers and consumers to protect patents owned by companies on islands with a half dozen or so palm-trees which bear no coconuts and as much collateral.

We've recently seen some examples of employees of Swiss banks sending CD-ROMs and DVDs containing account details of foreigners with Swiss bank accounts. I'm waiting for the day that the US, UK and European authorities will one day also guarantee adequate protections for similar individuals, when it's employees of financial institutions from the Cayman Islands, Bermuda, the Marshall Islands, the Bahamas, the Grenadines etc. Or from the 1st World's major money-laundering / obscure financial centers including Delaware corporations and the city of London.

Ancient Observer
24th Jan 2013, 17:19
I've read the stuff about sub-penises, which MOL has issued to ppruners.

So I say with great confidence that some of these big high tech corporates are crooks, and liars.

On the lying bit, I have proof about one big techie corporate, but as it is obvious where I got it from, I'll wait until that person has left Brazil, and then pass it on to the authorities.

I wonder where to pass it to................I would like to pass it to someone with some ethics. A journo??? A politician???? The police????

AlpineSkier
24th Jan 2013, 17:23
AO

Are you on the right thread ? Does seem very/at all relevant.

OFSO
24th Jan 2013, 17:56
Fifty billion wiped off Apple shares today. Believed to be because the market is shifting from teensy-weensy smart phones to teensy-smart phones and Apple don't make one.

Wall Street edges up in face of Apple decline | Reuters (http://www.reuters.com/article/2013/01/24/us-markets-stocks-idUSBRE90L0DA20130124)


I understand it. I've just shifted from a teensy-weensy phone (not made by Apple, of course) to a 7" tablet phone which still fits in my jacket pocket (bit heavy though) - also not made by Apple - and I wouldn't go back to the little one for anything other than phoning.

AlpineSkier
24th Jan 2013, 18:10
I've just shifted from a teensy-weensy phone

OFSO

This explains why the house-keeping is in small coins this month :E

Temp Spike
24th Jan 2013, 18:11
Thanks AO. just don't give it to Fox news or WJ or any murdoch propaganda outlets. Be a waste of time.

Temp Spike
24th Jan 2013, 18:13
Dump yer Apple Stock yet? Buy your put O's ?

Me doin fine. :)

AlpineSkier
24th Jan 2013, 18:21
TS

September $ 515
October (?) $ 705
January $450



For me completely incomprehensible. Looking to buy in Sept after 'paper tip , left it too late then they soared, then cases (mostly) won against Samsung but price declined , then plunged after this quarter's reports.

Crazy movements for me. Can't see how I could buy now although things like eps and cash enormously positive. Guess I must be too cautious or lacking in confidence.

Temp Spike
24th Jan 2013, 18:26
Apple has always been an iffy bet IMO.

rgbrock1
24th Jan 2013, 18:26
As a life-long Apple fan - even during the dark days - I will say this. iPad, iPod, iMac, iPhone, Mac, etc. are all and good. They are superbly-made products and really show Apple's design and engineering abilities at their finest.

However, every update to these lines of products have been evolutionary. For a couple of years now. Not revolutionary like the original iMac (bondi blue) or the original iPad.

Unless Apple Inc. comes up with something revolutionary in the near future I'm skeptical about Apple's continuing dominance of the tech field.

Tim Cook is doing a good job. But Steve Jobs did a great job, and then some. Can Cook be a Jobs? No. But he still has the same design team as well as engineers. If I were Cook I'd "persuade" them to come up with something "really amazing".
They really need to. And soon.

Dushan
24th Jan 2013, 18:30
Apple TV is on the horizon, I hear. No, not the little box, the actual flat screen TV that I suspect will be something special, similar to a $13,000 B&O, but better priced.

I hope. I love their stuff. It is made well, works, well, it is engineered and designed well, and best of all isn't Windoze.

rgbrock1
24th Jan 2013, 18:32
And a boisterous standing ovation for Mr. Dushan!

:ok::ok::ok::ok::ok:

PS: Although I wouldn't go so far as calling that other "operating system" Windoze. More like Windblows!!!!! I messed around with Windows 8. For about 15 minutes. And gave up after getting a migraine.

Dushan
24th Jan 2013, 18:37
I have enough trouble with XP Pro to go beyond, at work. They are forcing me to take Win 7, but I am taking the Charlton Heston line.

As for 8, if for nothing else I would not buy it because of the absolutely irritating music on their ads.

Edited to add: And, yes calling it "operating system" is a stretch. More like bunch of disjointed routines held together with spit, bubblegum and baling wire.

Helol
24th Jan 2013, 18:37
The film industry and music industry have used Apple since the dawn of time way before they ever became fashionable. My other half has continued to use them ever since the beginning, and continues to do so Why? His answer - 'because they work'